Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

roadburner

I almost decided to go with a Civic SI instead, which I would have liked too I think, but it has a lot less character than the Subaru does. In the end it was character and AWD that won me over.

I looked at the Si as well; the dealer was great but it just didn't click for me. My Mazda salesperson had raced in the 24 Hours of Nelson Ledges and also owns a Triumph motorcycle, so he had the inside track. Yes, the MS3 can sometimes respond like a pit bull on crystal meth, but I find that to be part of its charm.

Obligatory CCBA content: I'm slipping a bit as well- only two automobile purchases in the past 22 months: the MS3(7/07) and the 2002(9/08)... :P

kyfdx

For '08, stability control came with the premium package...

But, I'm pretty sure that it is standard across the board for '09.. on all Imprezas..

I like the standard hatch the best, as well.. Didn't want to pay the extra $25/mo. for it...

(CCBA update: Two purchases in '08.. none scheduled for '09)

nippononly

But then, are CCBA purchases ever really SCHEDULED?! ;-)

oregonboy

I just checked and you are right... stability control across the line.

The only thing that would tempt me to get an OBS over the base 5-door is the cold weather package and the adjustable lumbar support (!). For an extra $2 grand... nah, I don't think so.

nippononly

The base model still has steelies with plastic wheel covers - ick. And the crap 4-speaker stereo that base Subarus have had forever and a day, but that's not as important if you don't mind switching to an aftermarket. The 10-speaker surround sound system in the other trims really has a nice sound though, to me it's worth a few extra bucks all by itself.

BTW, this latest purchase is yet another confirmation for me that the Japanese-built Japanese cars are of higher quality than the North American-built ones, and I have decided I will only be buying "built in Japan" from now on, as long as I remain a Japanese car fan.

All you folks with Legacys and Outbacks can beg to disagree, but the contrast between the Matrix (built in Ontario) and the new car (built in Gunma, Japan) is noticeable.

andre1969

I know I'm a bit late in saying it, but congrats on the new ride!

nippononly

Thanks! :-)

guss

and I have decided I will only be buying "built in Japan" from now on

Come on , with the handle nippononly would we expect any different.

Congratulations on the Subaru, very nice cars. I would have pegged you for the STi, or the WRX at least.

My only problem with them is their cockpits are always too small for me.

roadburner

BTW, this latest purchase is yet another confirmation for me that the Japanese-built Japanese cars are of higher quality than the North American-built ones, and I have decided I will only be buying "built in Japan" from now on, as long as I remain a Japanese car fan.

At my advanced age(52 ), I'm tired of learning the foibles and details of any additional vehicle brands. As a result, I'll probably stick with older Bimmers and Wranglers(and maybe the odd Mazda) from now on. I know where to get quality parts at good prices, who to take them to when I can't fix them, and who to call when I need advice. Having said all that, I'd make an exception for an Aston Martin DB7 or Porsche 911 if one came along in my price range...:P

michaellno

...but I received a pre-recorded phone message today stating that my local Saturn dealer has been "closed" and the operations transferred to a larger Saturn store owned by the same group.

Which is, of course, on the other side of town.

In all honesty, the only one of my three Saturns that still need to go to the dealer is my wife's VUE, as it's still under warranty. My L and the daughter's ION will probably start going to the local Chevy dealership here in town, or to an independent shop for routine service.

What do you all recommend, since I am so not mechanically inclined - dealer, independent shop or quickie oil change chain?

nippononly

Alas, I was looking to keep the price of this one down, and didn't want to go the extra 5 grand for the WRX. It did cross my mind, but the $5K savings and the paint job I liked so much convinced me to go with the NA model. It's very noticeably stronger than my old Matrix was, so it's already a substantial step up. :-)

nippononly

I think where you obtain servicing is very much dependent on the individual staff at the shop, and getting good service has a lot less to do with whether it is a corner gas station, independent shop, or dealer. I WILL say however that it has been my mantra for a long time now to tell people NEVER to go to quickie lube places for ANYTHING AT ALL, unless you specifically know the staff working on your car. Not only do they do the most upselling and needess servicing, but they also do careless and often shoddy work. When you are on the clock to get the customer out the door in record time, as they are in those places, the QUALITY of the work is bound to suffer. I would never let a friend or family member go to one of those places, even just for oil changing. I would change their oil for them before I would let that happen.

roadburner: I am with you. Once you have your select group of brands, whatever they may be, it just gets to be too much of a hassle to "learn" a new brand, what with finding a reliable place to service it, reliable places to get parts, etc etc. I am probably stuck on Honda/Toyota/Subaru for life, although I am beginning to think I may never want a new Toyota again - they have just lost their edge. It could be they will be supplanted in my list of favorites by Mazda. ;-)

jimbres

BTW, this latest purchase is yet another confirmation for me that the Japanese-built Japanese cars are of higher quality than the North American-built ones, and I have decided I will only be buying "built in Japan" from now on, as long as I remain a Japanese car fan.

Your new car is not the same brand as your old car. Isn't it possible that this affects your perception of quality as much as the location of the assembly plant?

Having owned Hondas from Ohio & Japan, I don't think that country of origin matters for this particular brand, although it might matter for others. In fact, our Marysville-built Accord, which we kept for almost 12 years (I'm clearly not CCBA material), was the most trouble-free car we've ever owned - more so than Toyota & Nissan products built entirely in the Home Islands.

oregonboy

So, Nippon, I don't believe I heard what color you OBS is. I really like the blue:

nippononly

That could be a picture of my car! Newport blue, that's the ticket. ;-)

I really like the way the blue sits over the silver. The other colors are dark silver over light silver and black over silver, neither of which I liked. There might be one more color choice, but I forget what it is.

I've got this big box of roof rails, because I asked them not to be installed. I never carry skis on the roof, I rent where I ski, and I didn't want the wind noise or reduced fuel economy of having them up there, so instead I have a new box to add to my storage closet.

Oh, and jimbres: no, I remember quite clearly how my Matrix was when it was new, and the Subaru is better made. Now my comment only really refers to Toyotas at the present time, it is possible that Honda does a better job of keeping an eye on QC at its North American operations.

akangl

That I'll keep my CCBA membership, I'm currently scouting the $500-$1000 car market for a car that will deal with my son learning to drive on it. He can't seem to master the stick shift in the Civic and even I have to say its a very touchy car (but what a blast to drive). I'm not real fond of him driving the Pilot, lol.

So I'm kind of torn, either buy him a cheap little car to learn on or buy a cheap truck that can pull the TT and he can learn on it. Really wishing I'd kept the 97 F-250, really great truck, miss the darn thing.

BTW, 2 more months and I'll hit 2 years with the Pilot, its sitting at about 38k right now, still a great car. I love driving it even after nearly 2 years, its a pleasure.

[Deleted User]

I was a little surprised when I drove by it the other day and noticed it was vacant. I drive by it every day but just noticed it Monday. Do know when exactly they shut the doors? Is the one on Havana still open?

michaellno

roadburner: I am with you. Once you have your select group of brands, whatever they may be, it just gets to be too much of a hassle to "learn" a new brand, what with finding a reliable place to service it, reliable places to get parts, etc etc.

Tell me about it. After having owned only Saturns for the past few years, I'm disappointed that the brand may be going away later this year. While I'm encouraged that the excellent dealer network may be saved (Penske? Renault?), I just don't think that the product will ever be the same.

Guess I'll have to figure out what brand to get next time 'round, when the L300 gets replaced n a few years.

Used BMW 3-series coupe?
New WRX hatch?
Leftover G8?

qbrozen

when the L300 gets replaced n a few years .... Leftover G8?

hahaha. Don't know where you are gonna find a "leftover" Pontiac in a few years. ;b

nippononly

This is why you have to have a small group of brands like roadburner and me, rather than just one! :-P

I don't think you can go too far wrong with a new WRX. If you go with a used BMW 328i, be sure to go CPO....

And what about Ford? I know you have been partial in the past. In two years we will have the new Focus AND the new Fiesta, and the Fusion hybrid will be a well-tested model that may have an incentive or two by then due to age. Not to mention the new unibody Explorer will be here, and won't Escape be getting revised also? I wouldn't cross Ford off the list, if you've been a fan in the past.

michaellno

If I were to go the BMW route, there is no doubt I'd do CPO. My BIL bought an '06 330i ZHP a year or so ago and he loves it.

Regarding Ford - yes, I've been a fan in the past (Escort, Expedition, Explorer and Focus since 1997), but they don't make much that interests me at the moment, other than maybe the Mustang.

Now, if they brought the Focus RS over (with the 300 BHP engine), then I might be tempted!

I'm really thinking that my next car won't be a 4-door sedan - either a hatch, wagon or coupe. Don't need another SUV, with the wife's VUE.

stickguy

Hmm, I seem to end up having multiples too.

Back in the early '90s, we had 2 mazdas at the same time. A few years later, it was 2 Nissans. Now, 2 Hondas (3 if you count my sons Acura, which is actually mine, so yes, lets count it!)

Mixed in there was a Plymouth (voyager), Scion tC, Miata and a Subaru, so I guess I didn't stray too far.

I agree on keeping an eye on Ford. One the new Eruo stuff starts arriving, they will likely have something to interest me. One of those compact people movers would work just fine (Focused based, C Maxx maybe?)

Or Mazda can survive and put out a sport model 5 (did it even get the new big 4 cyl yet?) Maybe a speed 5, that sounds taasty!

woodyww

Newport blue, that's the ticket

Nippon, seems like you got a lot of car for the $$, & a good deal. From seeing it online, I like the Newport blue. There's a mossy green (?)--not a good color IMO, & doesn't go well with the grey cladding.

I like the Subie website, the current Foresters look very interesting. For whatever reason tho, I don't see a huge amount of Subarus in my area just NW of Boston--you'd think there would be in New England? It's more like hondas, toyotas, some bmw's, etc....

I always seem to have Subarus on my list when I'm car shopping tho--just haven't bought one yet.....

nippononly

That mossy green is the fourth color I couldn't remember when someone was asking me about it. I think of it as "puke green". It's a horrible color, but that continues a long and hardy tradition of Subaru always offering one color on the OBS that nobody wants and looks terrible. ;-)

They should dump the green and just go back to offering a white as the fourth color, I bet they would get more takers. White looks quite nice with the silver down below. Either that, or go with a racing green like they had the year I bought my first OBS.

My experience from California and Washington is you have to get out beyond the edge of the burbs of major cities before you start to see the real proliferation of Subarus. Although in Washington there are more of them in the cities than in California. In SoCal it is rare to see a Sube anywhere.

woodyww

"puke green". It's a horrible color

It's almost worse than.....there was a "pea soup green" on LR Disco II's around 1999; the worst color they had.

I'm in such a Yuppie, boring town, it's almost like the "default" cars are Hondas, or Toyotas. I'm overstating it tho, my neighbor has a LR2, & an E46. I haven't been to VT in a few years; I think Subies may be the "state car of VT" .

There are plenty of Subaru dealers in the Boston area tho.....

andre1969

if it's what I saw on their website, it's called "Sage Green", and I actually like it. However, IMO, it's more of color suited to big old cars, like something angular and chiseled from the late 1970's or early 80's. Actually, it doesn't look too far off from the "Jadestone" of my '82 Cutlass Supreme, although that one had a bit more silver and blue in it I think. Chrysler used a similar color called "Teal Frost Metallic" which I think looks really sharp...but again, on something bigger. As in St. Regis, NOT Horizon!

It also doesn't go well with that silver accent. I think the Newport Blue contrasts with it much more nicely. I think that light green works best as a monotone, although it does look nice as a two-tone with a dark green...but again, probably on a big, angular chiseled car with creases that would serve well as break-lines for the two colors. Chrysler and GM both offered that combination briefly, and I wouldnt' be surprised if Ford didnt, too...in fact I saw a '79 St. Regis in that combination for sale near me, ironically the day AFTER I bought my '79 New Yorker! Pissed me off a bit, as I would've rather had the Dodge, even if it wasn't as luxurious! And back then I didn't have the resources to rescue two of these things at the same time.

fezo

I don't know why but it strikes me there are more ways to screw up green on a car than pretty much any color.

corvette

Dodge has a very odd green color they're using on the Caravan and Journey. I've seen a couple on the road. Not sure what I think of it, but I think I like the Subaru green better than it.

andre1969

Yeah, I've seen that color, too. I looked on their website and it's called "Melbourne Green Pearl". I like it, but will admit that yeah, it's an acquired taste. It remind me of a color that was common in the late 50's called "Tamarack Green." Kind of a darkish green metallic a bit lighter than what I'd call "forest green".

roadburner

How about this- I call it "Wehrmacht Green":

oregonboy

I believe that's what isellhonda calls "no-sale green" :P

Boy! That has to be a major hit to the resale value! :sick:

andre1969

That looks roughly the color of the yolk of a hard-boiled egg. Now I remember why, when I was a kid, I'd always eat the white but never the yolk!

anonymousposts

on a 3-series, I came across a emerald green 325/330 with the terra cotta (reddish-brown) interior. That HAAAAD to be a special order and I would venture that it's still for sale if I looked for it again.

fintail

Now that my mom's car has been ruled a total loss, we went car shopping a little yesterday...the settlement won't be finished until next week I think, but no problem looking now. Looked at a CPO 2007 Corolla and a 40K mile decently optioned 2003 Camry that could have been owned by the proverbial little old lady - it was pristine, the interior virtually as-new and not a scratch to be seen on the car. I think I might encourage my mother to make an offer on the Camry. She has a budget of 15K or so, and the Camry could come in almost 5K under that before taxes. The Corolla was dirty and somehow gave me a bad vibe...but the Camry seemed very nice.

dstarinieri

Be carefull of the 2003 Camry. I had an 2002 and it was a nightmare of a car. It had more squeaks and rattles than a baby in a crib. Also the transmission had what was called "cold shift shock" When cold going from reverse to drive it would slam into gear. The service dept. could never duplicate any of the problems! At trade time 9 months latter the sales manager gave me a lowball price and cited all the problems with that year Camry and how they could not give me more. That was my last Toyota! Also if you live in a warm climate the AC is not that good. Maybe the problems have been worked out in the 03. :lemon:

woodyww

"Wehrmacht Green"

That's a factory color?? And someone actually bought that car?? Usually bmw doesn't have any (or many) "awful" colors......often the blues, greens, reds are very attractive.

I'll stop complaining about that sage green Subie color now.....

roadburner

Usually BMW doesn't have any (or many) "awful" colors......often the blues, greens, reds are very attractive.

Check out these colors...

Phoenix Gold- AKA "Infant Excrement Yellow":



Laguna Seca Blue- AKA "Smurf Blue":

fezo

You'd have been my candidate to come up with those.

BMW makes so many really attractive blues. Probably more than all the other manufacturers put together. Smurf Blue is not one of them. The color guy must have called out sick that day.

That yellow might work on another car but it certainly doesn't work on the one it's on.

The green that started all this is awfully close to cat poop green. Awful color.

Relating all this to topic I will never buy a car in a color I hate no matter how good the deal is. You feel great about a really good deal for about a week. You seethe over a hideous color as long as you have the car.

kyfdx

Actually, Phoenix Gold looks a lot worse than that picture, in person....

However, I think LSB actually looks okay, and better than that picture..

stever

Smurf blue is popular around here, for obvious reasons.

Obvious to us denizens anyway.

BTW, I swapped my Outback for a Miata Friday contingent on the Miata passing IM/smog. It didn't. I had a hoot driving it around before unwinding the deal yesterday noon, but I spent ~$55 bucks on the Carfax, the IM and I filled it up since the seller was such a nice guy. I don't begrudge the time, but he lived 20 miles away so it was a bit of a drive in Friday afternoon traffic.

It's fun having shiny new baubles around, but usually the FedEx guy saves me the hassles. I don't know how you guys do it every other weekend.

woodyww

When I was hot and heavy

LOL, "hot and heavy", it describes what a lot of us go thru with our Car Lust, & why it can be so hard to make a car buying decision. (And somewhere between 1 day & 1 week we're on to some other type of car).

I think I sort of like the terra cotta (reddish-brown) interior from pics, but it must be awful with green paint. I'm gonna appreciate my black w/tan interior even more from now on.....

lilengineerboy

Check out these colors...

Phoenix Gold- AKA "Infant Excrement Yellow"

Audi had an 80s color called Gobi Gold, but it was better known as BSB...Baby **** Brown.

Arguably, my folks Nova was that color too (BSB), at least by the time I was driving it.

91landcruiser

:shades: The Camry is a great car! If you can find one with that low miles, in great shape I'd buy it! I've had my 2003 Camry for 4 years now. It was a Certified Preowned also, so it has a 7 yr / 100,000 mile warranty included. I've serviced regularly and the cost of owning it has been realitivly inexpensive. I have no squeeks or rattles. Make sure you get a CarFax though... you never know these days with flood vehicles and salvaged titles being "cleaned" through other states...
Hope that helps.....

fintail

02 was the first year of that style IIRC...so that might explain your misfortune. I hope so anyway.

My mother won't have the money from the Corolla until next week I am sure...but she does seem to like the Camry more than the other Corolla there. She's in a small town where the next dealer (she doesn't like to deal with little used car dealers) is a good hour away.

fintail

If the car is still there when she is ready to make a move, I am going to have her take it in for an inspection. It claims to be a local car, and I think the dealer can produce records to that effect. The interior was genuinely clean and I like to think I am a decent judge of cosmetics. The engine bay looked honest too, the only glitch I saw was some grime on a piece under the transmission dipstick. I live in a very mild area and maintained used cars here tend to age nicely compared to back east or in the desert.

guss

Sometimes if you do a little rooting around in the glove box you can find the previous owners phone number. I have found their name on the owners manual where they filled out the owners information card. Once I found a pay stub of the previous owner and googled his name.

Of the three times I called the previous owner(even though the car was on a dealers lot) they were all very receptive about answering questions. One even let me know that they were awful at keeping up with the maintenance. Needles to say I walked away from that one.

fintail

When I bought my last car, it was from a dealer...I wanted copies of everything, but the dopes said they couldn't give it out due to some bogus paranoid privacy stuff. MB keeps track of all repairs, so if you buy one you can have a dealer verify your car...or just check in the service booklet or manual, where the original owner's name and address is still entered just like in the old days.

For the Camry, I can't imagine my mother going to such lengths. If it passes an inspection (or if its another car with a comprehensive warranty), she'll be happy.

woodyww

I wanted copies of everything, but the dopes said they couldn't give it out due to some bogus paranoid privacy stuff

I was interested in a used Volvo about 10 years ago--an 850 Turbo wagon (an R, I think)--the dealer wasn't a volvo dealer, no info, so I called the selling dealer. Got a very chilly reception, & they wouldn't tell me anything. Then I wondered, if I took the car back to the orig. volvo dealer for repairs, would they be that nasty?

The 6 y.o. Camry with 40K miles--what's the price? Will it still be there in a week or 2? It sounds nice.....

fintail

The local MB dealer service dept here seems to be pretty surly unless you are pulling up in the latest S-class....although if you talk to the parts guys, they are nicer as they are making that gigantic mark-up. They even gave me a side marker bulb for free, something like a 29 cent value. But as with a MB, I am sure with a Volvo the first thing to do when buying a used one is to seek out a reputable indy shop.

They want full retail for the Camry, which I think is just over 11K. I told my mother to offer 10 even, if it checks out via inspection. She's not a negotiator. She's a little worried that it has no real warranty. It did look like a nice car, extremely clean and not just a quick sloppy detail job. We drove it for just a 15 minute jaunt around town and it seemed fine. It's not in any kind of metro area, so the dealership doesn't sell a huge volume...but at the same time, they don't have a huge inventory. If it does sell before she is able to buy, she'll just have to keep looking. After the mechanic she has known for years told her to get a Toyota, that's all she wants.

roadburner

I'm very fortunate in that my BMW dealer treats me great regardless of whether I'm driving my wife's 2004 X3 or my 1995 318ti. The service prices are quite reasonable as well. That said, I usually use an indie BMW tech for any service on the 3er that I don't want to tackle.