Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

abacomike

oldfarmer50 said:

abacomike said:

When I spoke with my dealer today, he told me that there are two other benefits and/or incentives if you finance at 0% interest for 36 months with MBFS:

MBFS will pick up the first payment up to a maximum of $500.

First payment can be delayed for 90 days - which means the loan on the car is actually 39 months at 0% interest.

In all the years I've been buying Mercedes Benz cars, I never remember them offering such tremendous incentives. My out-the-door cost is $68,365 for a $74,400 MSRP E450W4 (includes sales tax, DMV registration, fees, etc.). Remember, sales tax alone is almost $4000. I am a very happy camper.🤙😋

That’s incredible. Did your previous history in the business get you that special treatment or did you have to threaten to unfold the deal?

I can’t imagine the average Joe Schmoe getting all that trunk money.

Firstly, they gave me 10% off full MSRP ($7470.00). Then I get the USAA fleet discount of $2,500. Then there is $1,000 off for loyalty. Finally, there is another $750 toward the first payment.

Last month they were giving $500 toward the first payment, so it's better this month. Finally, they will defer the first payment for 90 days.

Also remember I know the Sales Manager and General Manager so they bent over backwards for me.

carnaught

@abacomike, sounds like a great deal! Think you will like the light interior - much more friendly in hot climates. Consider tinted windows for the same reason but avoid overpaying which is common. Can’t wait to see pics.

fintail

Those wagons are pretty rare these days, not any kind of collectible, but uncommon. Maybe an obscure thing in 20 years/ Funny thing, Canada has had the current C wagon for a couple years now, not sold in the US. I still don't get the differences between US and Canada spec MBs, and spec for spec, they are much cheaper in Canada these days, exchange rate helping of course.

The early 4 cyl W203 C-class (2001+) had a very "agricultural" cold idle IIRC. They could also have their share of electrical quirks, the early 00s were not MB's golden age.

driver100 said:

I liked the 1999 C230 a lot....that Kompressor had a lot of punch, and nice handling. Yes, it was low $30s, about $34k and our dollar I think was pretty good compared to USD. I saw a 2003 C230 or 240 at the dealers and fell in love with the look of the wagon. It looked good, Mrs D100 really liked the outward vision especially because you could see back so well. But, that engine sucked big time. MB wanted to make a more refined engine, so put in a 6 cyl engine. It made the car embarrassingly slow, took away all the fun of driving it. Looked beautiful....was smoother and quieter, but, boring. Mrs D went for a 2008 bmw 335 with manual transmission, wanted to escape the boredom.

fintail

I bet the facelift helped that. The final run of W213 will have the same or better fire sale.

When I picked up my final W212, 213s were already arriving - it was a leftover, and a diesel. The SM (who I had dealt with before) knew I'd have interest in the oddball car, and gave me a pull forward at 8-9 months early, and I was able to get the 69K car for 57K IIRC. It was a car that was technically obsolete from day one, as it was out of production when I took delivery, but still a deal.

abacomike said:

Firstly, they gave me 10% off full MSRP ($7470.00). Then I get the USAA fleet discount of $2,500. Then there is $1,000 off for loyalty. Finally, there is another $750 toward the first payment.

Last month they were giving $500 toward the first payment, so it's better this month. Finally, they will defer the first payment for 90 days.

Also remember I know the Sales Manager and General Manager so they bent over backwards for me.

driver100

fintail said:

Those wagons are pretty rare these days, not any kind of collectible, but uncommon. Maybe an obscure thing in 20 years/ Funny thing, Canada has had the current C wagon for a couple years now, not sold in the US. I still don't get the differences between US and Canada spec MBs, and spec for spec, they are much cheaper in Canada these days, exchange rate helping of course.

The early 4 cyl W203 C-class (2001+) had a very "agricultural" cold idle IIRC. They could also have their share of electrical quirks, the early 00s were not MB's golden age.

driver100 said:

I liked the 1999 C230 a lot....that Kompressor had a lot of punch, and nice handling. Yes, it was low $30s, about $34k and our dollar I think was pretty good compared to USD. I saw a 2003 C230 or 240 at the dealers and fell in love with the look of the wagon. It looked good, Mrs D100 really liked the outward vision especially because you could see back so well. But, that engine sucked big time. MB wanted to make a more refined engine, so put in a 6 cyl engine. It made the car embarrassingly slow, took away all the fun of driving it. Looked beautiful....was smoother and quieter, but, boring. Mrs D went for a 2008 bmw 335 with manual transmission, wanted to escape the boredom.

Canada has 1/10th the population of the U.S., but, we have way more MB models to choose from. My guess is more wagons (since we lean a bit toward European ways too), and we tend to buy less expensive models like those mini bus MBs that would never sell in the US.....too European looking. There is a price spread between Canada and U.S., but that also helps reduce the price a bit, salaries are paid in lower Canadian dollars, as are expenses, shipping costs etc.

"Agricultural" is a good description....kind of thrashed like a tractor.....but, had good acceleration.

fintail

Also cars like the A hatch, B and SWB S-class, not for Murka (barely-selling electric B not counted). Also in wagons, Canada gets the E53 wagon not seen here. For non-tuned versions, there's more standard equipment, I suspect a car like mine might be closer to 10K cheaper in Canada. Some might cry "taxes", but sales tax in my area is 10%, so the difference is actually minimal.

From what I can see, the Canadian lineup and option packaging is more like the UK.

The new 4s are like a V6 compared to their 2001 equivalent.

driver100 said:

Canada has 1/10th the population of the U.S., but, we have way more MB models to choose from. My guess is more wagons (since we lean a bit toward European ways too), and we tend to buy less expensive models like those mini bus MBs that would never sell in the US.....too European looking. There is a price spread between Canada and U.S., but that also helps reduce the price a bit, salaries are paid in lower Canadian dollars, as are expenses, shipping costs etc.

"Agricultural" is a good description....kind of thrashed like a tractor.....but, had good acceleration.

driver100

The A and B hatches...that is what I couldn't think of the name. They do nothing for me, but gets you into a Merc for a lower price.....not bad for taking kids to school or as a grocery getter.
BMW also offers wagons even these days, don't see a lot of them but the 3 Series makes for a beautiful wagon.
Our sales tax is now 13%.
Yes, we are influenced to some degree by the U.K and Europe.....same for movies, books, TV series and streaming.
I agree, I always chose a 6 over a 4 in my younger days (and an 8 over a 6), but, these days there is nothing wrong with a 4 and a good turbo.

benjaminh

abacomike said:

When I spoke with my dealer today, he told me that there are two other benefits and/or incentives if you finance at 0% interest for 36 months with MBFS:

MBFS will pick up the first payment up to a maximum of $500.

First payment can be delayed for 90 days - which means the loan on the car is actually 39 months at 0% interest.

In all the years I've been buying Mercedes Benz cars, I never remember them offering such tremendous incentives. My out-the-door cost is $68,365 for a $74,400 MSRP E450W4 (includes sales tax, DMV registration, fees, etc.). Remember, sales tax alone is almost $4000. I am a very happy camper.🤙😋

Congratulations! And thanks for sharing the details. When do you get it? I'd like to see pix!

28firefighter

This poor car:
https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/cto/d/seattle-1991-bmw-m5/7108352611.html

benjaminh

28firefighter said:

This poor car:
https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/cto/d/seattle-1991-bmw-m5/7108352611.html

I think when most cars have 250,000 miles they are close to being toast. Seems like that's why this guy is getting rid of it.

28firefighter

I get that. But this is an early 90s M5. Someone ran this into the ground.

breld

I really would like this, but that price is quite dear for the miles, no matter the condition.

https://denver.craigslist.org/cto/d/littleton-2002-e39-m5-alpine-white-full/7103880159.html

oldfarmer50

28firefighter said:

This poor car:
https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/cto/d/seattle-1991-bmw-m5/7108352611.html

Those miles give me the vapors.

28firefighter

breld said:

I really would like this, but that price is quite dear for the miles, no matter the condition.

https://denver.craigslist.org/cto/d/littleton-2002-e39-m5-alpine-white-full/7103880159.html

I think it’s probably a $20k car.

imidazol97

oldfarmer50 said:

Those miles give me the vapors.

The local paper publishes an ad for the auction in CinDay area. They had a listing of repo vehicles for sale. Have you every looked those over?

http://adesacinday.com/inventory/

pensfan83

breld said:

I really would like this, but that price is quite dear for the miles, no matter the condition.

https://denver.craigslist.org/cto/d/littleton-2002-e39-m5-alpine-white-full/7103880159.html

That's beautiful but pricey.

corvette

Started working on the G37 with a clay bar and some Meguiar's Finishing Polish today. The paint is fairly rough in parts - I think the previous owner kept it outside. The roof rail and rear driver's side door had a haze to them, which came out with the polish. Will put a coat of Zaino on it tomorrow and try to get some pics.

Had to call it quits so I can watch the stream of the Berkshire Hathaway meeting.

abacomike

carnaught said:

@abacomike, sounds like a great deal! Think you will like the light interior - much more friendly in hot climates. Consider tinted windows for the same reason but avoid overpaying which is common. Can’t wait to see pics.

Yes, must have tinting down here, especially with that panorama sun roof. I have always tinted the window in my cars with 3M Crystaline. A little pricier, but well worth the extra money.

abacomike

benjaminh said:

abacomike said:

When I spoke with my dealer today, he told me that there are two other benefits and/or incentives if you finance at 0% interest for 36 months with MBFS:

MBFS will pick up the first payment up to a maximum of $500.

First payment can be delayed for 90 days - which means the loan on the car is actually 39 months at 0% interest.

In all the years I've been buying Mercedes Benz cars, I never remember them offering such tremendous incentives. My out-the-door cost is $68,365 for a $74,400 MSRP E450W4 (includes sales tax, DMV registration, fees, etc.). Remember, sales tax alone is almost $4000. I am a very happy camper.🤙😋

Congratulations! And thanks for sharing the details. When do you get it? I'd like to see pix!

Thanks Benjaminh. Should be delivered on Monday to the dealership and I will probably take delivery Monday afternoon or Tuesday.

roadburner

oldfarmer50 said:

28firefighter said:

This poor car:
https://seattle.craigslist.org/see/cto/d/seattle-1991-bmw-m5/7108352611.html

Those miles give me the vapors.

The modifications are miles beyond tacky. The S38 engine and the rest of the drivetrain are good for north of 300k miles if maintained properly, although in the case of the engine that includes a new timing chain every 100k miles.

fintail

I kind of like the A hatch, very European, and a popular car there. We get the A sedan, which isn't bad looking but a little smaller than I like. For me, the E has long been the right flavor, not too small, not too big. It's also a volume car in every market, so many others agree. Still not sure how Canada gets better option packages and pricing, but I suppose the cheap leases in the US might be part of it. The Euro/UK thing in Canada is funny, I've know people in BC who kind of put on airs about being cultured Europeans compared to their southern neighbors, but someone in Vancouver is pretty much the same as someone in Seattle, just without the risk of medical bankruptcy, and less crime.

3er wagon is now gone in the US and Canada, replaced by bloatling higher margin CUVs. BMW product planners in 1983 would jump out the window if they looked at the 2020 product line. 5er wagon has been gone on this continent for a decade. Audi has some wagons, but the traditional wagon is now the E with virtually no competition.

4 is the new 6, 6 is the new 8. My non-sport model non-tuned E wagon is as fast as my old E55 AMG.

driver100 said:

The A and B hatches...that is what I couldn't think of the name. They do nothing for me, but gets you into a Merc for a lower price.....not bad for taking kids to school or as a grocery getter.
BMW also offers wagons even these days, don't see a lot of them but the 3 Series makes for a beautiful wagon.
Our sales tax is now 13%.
Yes, we are influenced to some degree by the U.K and Europe.....same for movies, books, TV series and streaming.
I agree, I always chose a 6 over a 4 in my younger days (and an 8 over a 6), but, these days there is nothing wrong with a 4 and a good turbo.

stickguy

Volvo still makes the V60, that is a traditional wagon. At least I assume they still make it!

28firefighter

V60 leases are insane this month. $2000 loyalty, $2000 Costco, $2000 first responder. At least two stack together, though some reports of all three stacking.

driver100

MB dealers here don't negotiate......like they did with Mikes car. Most people pay MSRP or very close to it. We got a maximum good customer discount of 4% in 2015, but on the 2017 that was reduced to 3.5. And the dealers here hold the line so you won't shop around. A little more leeway with BMW. Even more on Audi, but 5 or 6% is max.
I am pretty sure all Es in Canada get AWD.......and the number of packages is usually reduced. Also, fewer color choices....so that cuts expenses too!

stickguy

so, had a successful trip moving princess to Delaware. I am definitely done moving at this point. Worse because she has the 2nd floor of an old house, so a tight, turned staircase. and some heavy flat (and in the case of a couch, square) pack boxes. But we got it done pretty quickly, and had the truck returned in Wilmington (cheaper to do a 1 way rental for some odd reason) before lunch.

the Ford Transit really drives nice. happily cruises along at 75 if you want it to. Light years better than the old style Ford and Chevy vans. even seemed to get pretty good mileage. But, as always, happy to give it back. I accidentally kept one of the rented packing blankets (rented 6, returned 5). Dude at the return place obviously did not bother to count them because the receipt for the turn in said 6 out, 6 back!

much nicer driving the RDX home though. that car will easily sneak over 80 without you noticing. and going 75-85 was very quick (had to get past a dawdling merger to make my exit). that broke 300 miles finally (almost 1/3 of it put on today). Lots of bugs apparently going down. needs its first bath tomorrow.

fintail

V90 is the really traditional wagon. I virtually never see them on the road, I see more E wagons - and I barely see those.

Funny thing, the Volvo site calls the V90 a "crossover-wagon". Sorry, no, and crossover is not something to aspire to, even if the Stepford set finds it trendy.

stickguy said:

Volvo still makes the V60, that is a traditional wagon. At least I assume they still make it!

stickguy

28firefighter said:

V60 leases are insane this month. $2000 loyalty, $2000 Costco, $2000 first responder. At least two stack together, though some reports of all three stacking.

if the dealers are discounting too, that could be interesting. I do love those! maybe in a year when my turn comes up again. Maybe. Or I will annoy the wife bringing home an orange over brown late 80s 245. She would love it!

stickguy

if by traditional you mean modern LTD, then yes, the 90 is!

imidazol97

stickguy said:

so, had a successful trip moving princess to Delaware. I am definitely done moving at this point. Worse because she has the 2nd floor of an old house, so a tight, turned staircase. and some heavy flat (and in the case of a couch, square) pack boxes. But we got it done pretty quickly, and had the truck returned in Wilmington (cheaper to do a 1 way rental for some odd reason) before lunch.

the Ford Transit really drives nice. happily cruises along at 75 if you want it to. Light years better than the old style Ford and Chevy vans. even seemed to get pretty good mileage. But, as always, happy to give it back. I accidentally kept one of the rented packing blankets (rented 6, returned 5). Dude at the return place obviously did not bother to count them because the receipt for the turn in said 6 out, 6 back!

much nicer driving the RDX home though. that car will easily sneak over 80 without you noticing. and going 75-85 was very quick (had to get past a dawdling merger to make my exit). that broke 300 miles finally (almost 1/3 of it put on today). Lots of bugs apparently going down. needs its first bath tomorrow.

Sympathies on the moving. Did that too many times with college and junior's apartments locally. Had "the guy" do most of it for the last move with junior and us moving some things in cars. But those "guys" handle the big heavy things so gracefully.

stickguy

it is hard to justify "the guys" when everything fit in a 9' standard roof Transit van. Plus the kitchen table and 3 chairs we stuffed into the RDX since that took up too much space and was hard to pack around. only the couch was really bad because of how heavy and awkward it was. would actually be easier to move assembled (there is a way to hold it) but no way that was going up the stairs all together.

nor would a normal queen sized boxspring (and quite likely not a mattress). thankfully she bought a "bed in a box" so we just had to carry the box in (probably about 8" sides). I missed the reveal when they popped the back open and it all unfurled. Darned this was really comfy though, and it hadn't even finished expanding.

qbrozen

Vroom sent me an email that my paperwork has been overnighted to me. Huh. Wonder if they got my payoff.

fintail

I think the V90 is the one that would compete with an E wagon. Comparably equipped, maybe 20% cheaper (I built a V90 online, came out to around 68K - but I bet the deals to be had these days are insane). Local dealer has exactly zero non-XC V90 in stock.

xwesx

driver100 said:

30000 miles on it, plus 6000 miles a year.

Wow; it is practically new!

nyccarguy

Loaded up the Pilot with our bikes and some beach gear and headed to Long Island. Lots of insanely awesome cars were out cruising around and opening up. McLarens, Corvettes, Camaros, Mustangs, Challengers, Lamborghinis, Ferraris, Mercedes, BMWs... Lots of head turners old and new.

Thought this thing was cool:

pensfan83

I've always liked those.

oldfarmer50

imidazol97 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

Those miles give me the vapors.

The local paper publishes an ad for the auction in CinDay area. They had a listing of repo vehicles for sale. Have you every looked those over?

http://adesacinday.com/inventory/

There are several auction places around me that sell mainly wrecked cars to body shops. I would be suspicious of repo auctions. I can’t imagine an owner running around one step ahead of the bank stops off to get the oil changed.

I’ve gone to state sponsored vehicle auctions and found that it was tough bidding against used car dealers. They sort of conspire with each other to divide up the good cars and to bid up any outsiders.

Picture the shenanigans of ‘Storage Wars’.

oldfarmer50

“ (cheaper to do a 1 way rental for some odd reason)”

Must want that van near where you dropped it off.

nyccarguy

My 13 year old son, Andre snapped these from the back seat as I told him: “Andre! Get ready! There’s a Lamborghini, Porsche, & Bentley approaching fast!”

nyccarguy

roadburner

nyccarguy said:

A similar thing happened to our team after the very ill-fated Arizona 1000 Rally in 2007; I was in the one surviving car headed back to Las Vegas when we got passed by a bunch of exotics- Gallardos, Enzos, an F1, a Saleen S7 and a couple of pikers in a 355.

stickguy

that $295 Santa Fe I found got repriced. Now up to a whopping $995. Not winter, but could qualify as a good beater!

interesting carfax. actually very clean. regular maintenance, no blemishes, and 2 owners. Just the first one liked to drive. a lot. first 15 months put on 52,000, then 40ish in a little less time. Had almost 200K in about 6 years, then got sold and only put on 30K total in about 4 years. Still, was getting driven!

probably just wore out at this point.

https://www.subaruofcherryhill.com/used/Hyundai/2009-Hyundai-Santa+Fe-cherry-hill-nj-bce8707b0a0e0a1716b9777b5840d0e8.htm

breld

28firefighter said:

breld said:

I really would like this, but that price is quite dear for the miles, no matter the condition.

https://denver.craigslist.org/cto/d/littleton-2002-e39-m5-alpine-white-full/7103880159.html

I think it’s probably a $20k car.

That’s what I was thinking. At $20k I would say the seller is still getting a nice premium for having a nice clean M5. His pricing is more in line with a 70-80k mile car, IMO.

But given the needs such a car would need in a routine basis, not sure I’d get comfortable putting it in my garage.

breld

abacomike said:

benjaminh said:

abacomike said:

When I spoke with my dealer today, he told me that there are two other benefits and/or incentives if you finance at 0% interest for 36 months with MBFS:

MBFS will pick up the first payment up to a maximum of $500.

First payment can be delayed for 90 days - which means the loan on the car is actually 39 months at 0% interest.

In all the years I've been buying Mercedes Benz cars, I never remember them offering such tremendous incentives. My out-the-door cost is $68,365 for a $74,400 MSRP E450W4 (includes sales tax, DMV registration, fees, etc.). Remember, sales tax alone is almost $4000. I am a very happy camper.🤙😋

Congratulations! And thanks for sharing the details. When do you get it? I'd like to see pix!

Thanks Benjaminh. Should be delivered on Monday to the dealership and I will probably take delivery Monday afternoon or Tuesday.

Very exciting!

28firefighter

breld said:

28firefighter said:

breld said:

I really would like this, but that price is quite dear for the miles, no matter the condition.

https://denver.craigslist.org/cto/d/littleton-2002-e39-m5-alpine-white-full/7103880159.html

I think it’s probably a $20k car.

That’s what I was thinking. At $20k I would say the seller is still getting a nice premium for having a nice clean M5. His pricing is more in line with a 70-80k mile car, IMO.

But given the needs such a car would need in a routine basis, not sure I’d get comfortable putting it in my garage.

I hope to own an E39 M5 at some point. But the maintenance needs and costs are more than I want to deal with, at this point.

The other thing I’ll say is that these cars are meant to be driven. The lower mile ones scare me more than the higher mile.

corvette

breld said:

But given the needs such a car would need in a routine basis, not sure I’d get comfortable putting it in my garage.

Exactly - I've been there and done that with an E39. Wonderful to drive, irritating to own, especially at the age they are now. The G37 isn't quite as poised, but it also doesn't leak fluids in my garage and doesn't need a trip to the mechanic every few months.

driver100

Some cars look better as wagons:

But, the car itself in this case is really nice too;

driver100

driver100">30000 miles on it, plus 6000 miles a year.

xwesx Wow; it is practically new!

Years do make a car older too. It is young in mileage, I just don't like spending time getting things replaced or the car becoming unreliable. But, those things haven't happened yet....so it is a keeper for now.

kyfdx

oldfarmer50 said:

imidazol97 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

Those miles give me the vapors.

The local paper publishes an ad for the auction in CinDay area. They had a listing of repo vehicles for sale. Have you every looked those over?

http://adesacinday.com/inventory/

There are several auction places around me that sell mainly wrecked cars to body shops. I would be suspicious of repo auctions. I can’t imagine an owner running around one step ahead of the bank stops off to get the oil changed.

I’ve gone to state sponsored vehicle auctions and found that it was tough bidding against used car dealers. They sort of conspire with each other to divide up the good cars and to bid up any outsiders.

Picture the shenanigans of ‘Storage Wars’.

Any car from an auto auction that admits the general public is a disaster waiting to happen.

roadburner

I'll need the expert drivers on here to give me some remedial training about how to safely manage this hideously dangerous vehicle, but I might have found a RWD Stinger GT1...

abacomike

driver100 said:

driver100">30000 miles on it, plus 6000 miles a year.

xwesx Wow; it is practically new!

Years do make a car older too. It is young in mileage, I just don't like spending time getting things replaced or the car becoming unreliable. But, those things haven't happened yet....so it is a keeper for now.



Years make "everything" look older, driver! 🤪😜😛