Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

qbrozen

28firefighter said:

VW announced the ID.4 today. I'll reserve judgment for the AWD version (which isn't coming until next year), but for now I'm not super impressed.

So a slower, cheaper, better-looking Model Y. I guess maybe it makes sense. Probably won’t get many buyers, though.

tjc78

Screaming future lease deal?

28firefighter

It seems like VW is controlling price for now. Doesn’t seem like that great of a deal.

xwesx

qbrozen said:

28firefighter said:

VW announced the ID.4 today. I'll reserve judgment for the AWD version (which isn't coming until next year), but for now I'm not super impressed.

So a slower, cheaper, better-looking Model Y. I guess maybe it makes sense. Probably won’t get many buyers, though.

Poor range limits the audience. Appearance-wise, they did a great job, yet it is still not something I could consider because I could not use it for anything other than commuting, and I'm not going to drop that sort of cash on a role-player vehicle.

28firefighter

Sold!

https://seattle.craigslist.org/est/cto/d/kirkland-tesla-model-3/7201146611.html

breld

I've paid fairly close attention to the VW EV news for awhile now, and it seems they've been touting a 300 mile range for the longest time. So it's disappointing that their big reveal of their first US product is touting a 250 mile range.

Plus, the price savings over a Tesla Model 3 or Y is hardly anything to get excited about. Now, VW will have the benefit of the federal tax incentive, but it's still not all that enticing. And I'd assume the AWD version will add $2-3k?

EDIT: the C&D article states the AWD version will start at around $45k (but then says something about a price reduction when production shifts to the TN plant?)

stickguy

28firefighter said:

Sold!

https://seattle.craigslist.org/est/cto/d/kirkland-tesla-model-3/7201146611.html

that was funny. Wonder what Carvana, Carmax or Vroom would hit that at? I know I would be finding out before wading into the CL Cesspool on something that expensive. Of course, I would have kept my thoughts to myself.

explorerx4

Is the 250 mile range, real world or Tesla world?
Most Tesla reviews I have read/viewed say about 2/3rd's of rated range.
Until you can get a quick recharge just about anywhere, I'm not considering an EV.

mjfloyd1

28firefighter said:

Sold!

https://seattle.craigslist.org/est/cto/d/kirkland-tesla-model-3/7201146611.html

Is it just me or does he seem a bit unhappy with his model 3? 😂

tifighter

28firefighter said:

Sold!

https://seattle.craigslist.org/est/cto/d/kirkland-tesla-model-3/7201146611.html

Honestly, I don't even know where to begin. It's true, the wipers logic could use improvement. But from there we go to a strange place that, as an owner for two years, doesn't compute for me. The enhanced autopilot/lifetime upgrades thing is just wrong. Everyone gets software updates, but EAP never included hardware 'upgrades' (but they will do that if you bought the full self driving option). I've never heard of this keycard thing he is talking about. I guess the fit issues could be real, although I have an earlier build car than this without this stuff. But it's possible. I hope he enjoyed the rant.

28firefighter

I just found the rant entertaining - and of course then asking nearly the price of a new car. Anyone can get a lemon, but making it clear that it is a lemon when you're trying to sell it is a bold approach.

mjfloyd1

My first thought was that he hoped that it would get noticed by someone connected with Tesla and they would offer to fix it

corvette

mjfloyd1 said:

My first thought was that he hoped that it would get noticed by someone connected with Tesla and they would offer to fix it

I think their hope is misplaced--Tesla seems to be relatively tone deaf to the complaints of individual owners. By contrast, when I bought my E90, I posted about some issues on a forum, and was subsequently stalked by (and talked to) BMW's executive customer service team.

fintail

The "1.8 year old" thing is as good as the near-new price. It's a 2 year old car, just come out with it, speaks volumes about the remorseful owner. Those issues aren't lemon-quality for the brand faithful, rather, charming quirks.

Nice to see someone not pretending these things are flawless jewels, anyway. If I took delivery of a new one, I'd go over it with a fine toothed comb and refuse delivery if there were glaring build issues.

28firefighter said:

I just found the rant entertaining - and of course then asking nearly the price of a new car. Anyone can get a lemon, but making it clear that it is a lemon when you're trying to sell it is a bold approach.

28firefighter

fintail said:

The "1.8 year old" thing is as good as the near-new price. It's a 2 year old car, just come out with it, speaks volumes about the remorseful owner. Those issues aren't lemon-quality for the brand faithful, rather, charming quirks.

Nice to see someone not pretending these things are flawless jewels, anyway. If I took delivery of a new one, I'd go over it with a fine toothed comb and refuse delivery if there were glaring build issues.

28firefighter said:

I just found the rant entertaining - and of course then asking nearly the price of a new car. Anyone can get a lemon, but making it clear that it is a lemon when you're trying to sell it is a bold approach.

Which is what I would do with any car I’m buying.

fintail

I've been "that guy" with my prior new MBs, service department probably cringes when I drive in the door, knowing it might not be something routine. It's not a $500 hooptie, I have some expectations too, and I also would with a Tesla.

28firefighter said:

Which is what I would do with any car I’m buying.

stickguy

cool car. Wonder what it will go for? With the miles and potential looming expensive issues, can't imagine all that much. But not going to see many others.

https://carsandbids.com/auctions/35kp2v6P/2008-bmw-535xi-sports-wagon

stickguy

oh wow, even rarer. A row your own Caddy! I love this one. Color combo, 3 pedals, and RWD. Dream configuration. Though might be better off with a comparable 330i BMW. But I would have no problems with this oddball.

https://carsandbids.com/auctions/3RYO8Ezq/2014-cadillac-ats-sedan

28firefighter

The miles kill it, but it will bring stupid money.

stickguy

would bother me less if the last owner had sunk the fortune into redoing everything. Sounds like he is dumping it so the next sucker gets hit with those bills.

ab348

I recall around 2011 visiting a local GM dealer on a Sunday when they were closed and spotting a lovely new 2nd-gen Caddy CTS on the raised podium in front of the showroom. Visually it was equipped exactly as I would have wanted one (and I liked that body style at the time anyway), Diamond White metallic, cashmere leather inside, polished alloys. I looked at the sticker in the window and even the price wasn't bad. Then I read the equipment list and saw it had a manual transmission which I had not noticed initially looking in the window. Disappointment. It vanished from their inventory fairly soon though and I wonder where it is now.

28firefighter

So I built-out an ID.4 Pro AWD with their top tier option package. MSRP came out just under $50k but a lease? A whopping $540/month + tax with $3500 + tax, title, license due at signing. That includes the $7500 rebate.

I really think they're missing the boat on this...

stickguy

I had to google this, since had zero idea what it was. Not bad looking, but I can't possibly seeing myself ever getting one. way too expensive to be a spare/around town car, and way too little range to be our go everywhere and travel car (and with the RDX, not in the market for one of those for another 5-10 years anyway!)

I would rather just have a Venza instead I think.

breld

28firefighter said:

So I built-out an ID.4 Pro AWD with their top tier option package. MSRP came out just under $50k but a lease? A whopping $540/month + tax with $3500 + tax, title, license due at signing. That includes the $7500 rebate.

I really think they're missing the boat on this...

Agreed.

Michaell

I've been chatting with @breld and @jpp75 about EVs. Might work for us as a 3rd car, given how little driving we do. But, the price of entry is still pretty high, along with the need to spend $500-1000 to get a charger installed at the house.

Wife expressed interest in the EV VW Van, but I'm not sure if or when that will be released in the US. With the ID.4 already as expensive as it is, the Van will be even pricier. And, gotta up that range, VW.

Michaell

Buyers remorse! Advice sought:

https://forums.edmunds.com/discussion/63145/lexus/x/return-new-car#latest

tifighter

More range means more batteries means more cost. And legacy makers have not made efficiency a priority either, which makes it even worse (IPace, etron, Taycan etc). They will continue to fall further behind at this rate.

Michaell

tifighter said:

More range means more batteries means more cost. And legacy makers have not made efficiency a priority either, which makes it even worse (IPace, etron, Taycan etc). They will continue to fall further behind at this rate.

Is the solution for Tesla to license their battery technology to the legacy automakers?

stickguy

would make a ton of money that way. And the supercharge network.

28firefighter

The problem is that Tesla would lose control of the ecosystem. Much like Apple, I’m sure their argument is that the battery technology is successful because of how it interacts with the software ecosystem.

Michaell

28firefighter said:

The problem is that Tesla would lose control of the ecosystem. Much like Apple, I’m sure their argument is that the battery technology is successful because of how it interacts with the software ecosystem.

That also makes sense.

If Tesla does develop and release a $25K compact, I'd be interested. Not that it needs 400 miles of range, but 250-300 would be nice to avoid range anxiety. Still keep an ICE for longer road trips.

Eventually the cost of the battery technology will come down, and even with the subsidies gone, you'd have something that would compete with compact gas engined cars.

tifighter

Tesla is unlikely to have extra battery capacity for awhile anyway. And that is including the advances they talked about on battery day.

28firefighter

Do they really need extra battery capacity, though?

To me the trick is not increasing battery capacity, but rather improving charging technology so that it (1) doesn't harm the batteries as much to do Level 3 charging regularly, and (2) can charge from < 5% to 100% in 15-20 minutes. Will it be as fast as putting gas in your car, no, but it would be sufficient for a road trip.

ronsteve

corvette said:

tjc78 said:

I’m glad we didn’t go to WF (who we have now). The realtor’s guy had a great program and we used it.

When I bought my place in 2015, I shopped around and ended up regretting my decision not to go with the realtor's "guy." This time, going with a regional bank which has given me good service where I have my checking account. It will be nice to have checking, mortgage, and HELOC all under one roof, for once.

When we bought in 2012, we went through the realtor's "girl" and she got us a good rate. Of course, it ended up being through Wells Fargo. We did an equity loan in 2018, not through WF, but the current rates have us thinking about a straight up refi.

tifighter

28firefighter said:

Do they really need extra battery capacity, though?

To me the trick is not increasing battery capacity, but rather improving charging technology so that it (1) doesn't harm the batteries as much to do Level 3 charging regularly, and (2) can charge from < 5% to 100% in 15-20 minutes. Will it be as fast as putting gas in your car, no, but it would be sufficient for a road trip.

The question was should Tesla supply batteries to other companies. My answer was Tesla will not have extra capacity beyond their own products to provide to anyone else.

28firefighter

tifighter said:

28firefighter said:

Do they really need extra battery capacity, though?

To me the trick is not increasing battery capacity, but rather improving charging technology so that it (1) doesn't harm the batteries as much to do Level 3 charging regularly, and (2) can charge from < 5% to 100% in 15-20 minutes. Will it be as fast as putting gas in your car, no, but it would be sufficient for a road trip.

The question was should Tesla supply batteries to other companies. My answer was Tesla will not have extra capacity beyond their own products to provide to anyone else.

Got it - totally misread. You meant manufacturing capacity.

tifighter

Yeah sorry, I should have quoted the original question.

suydam

Michaell said:

I've been chatting with @breld and @jpp75 about EVs. Might work for us as a 3rd car, given how little driving we do. But, the price of entry is still pretty high, along with the need to spend $500-1000 to get a charger installed at the house.

Wife expressed interest in the EV VW Van, but I'm not sure if or when that will be released in the US. With the ID.4 already as expensive as it is, the Van will be even pricier. And, gotta up that range, VW.

I like the Leaf Plus myself. Really enjoyed driving it.
By the way, I know several people who have EVs and don’t install chargers. If you don’t run the battery down too much you can top off overnight with no problem. And after a long trip, there are fast charging stations in places like Costco and other malls now.

[Deleted User]

So you drop them off and leave them while they charge or wait around?

stickguy

whatever you prefer. but there is a reason malls and shopping areas in particular like to rent out spots for chargers (besides the obvious rent). Having places to eat is a big plus.

[Deleted User]

Sure, that makes sense. I honestly have no idea how long they take to charge up either.

suydam

Fast charging is around an hour I think.

au1994

28firefighter said:

So I built-out an ID.4 Pro AWD with their top tier option package. MSRP came out just under $50k but a lease? A whopping $540/month + tax with $3500 + tax, title, license due at signing. That includes the $7500 rebate.

I really think they're missing the boat on this...

Wow, yeah, no I will pass.

My wife’s commute is 8 miles and they have charging stations so we’ve talked about EV’s before but it always comes to style vs. cost. A Leaf or i3 is a non starter for her in terms of styling for instance. The model 3 or upcoming Y is intriguing from Tesla. But then that at that cost we look at other ICE alternatives and as we all know there are more choices in that $40-50k range than Carter has liver pills.

xwesx

28firefighter said:

Do they really need extra battery capacity, though?

To me the trick is not increasing battery capacity, but rather improving charging technology so that it (1) doesn't harm the batteries as much to do Level 3 charging regularly, and (2) can charge from < 5% to 100% in 15-20 minutes. Will it be as fast as putting gas in your car, no, but it would be sufficient for a road trip.

Even 45-60 minutes, on a road trip, is not problematic... as long as the charger isn't in the middle of concreteville (e.g., there's something available within walking distance to occupy time). For example, the Tesla Supercharger in Twin Falls, Idaho, is collocated with a long boardwalk along the rim of the Snake River canyon. One could walk for hours along that scenic rim and completely forget the true purpose was to charge the car.... Walking for an hour for another 400 miles of range? Yeah, that's a good trade-off and a much-needed stretching of the legs.

However, distribution matters... and the charging network still needs two things:

1. Regularly spaced availability across much, or even all, of the road network if not in North America, then at least the US and Canada.
2. Common interface. Imagine how annoying it would be if you could only stop to gas up at "compatible" stations? There's a tiny bit of that with fossil fuels, but, basically, if one wants to fuel up with gasoline or diesel, they just stop at the nearest station and do so. For electric, such commonality has yet to exist (and probably won't with elitist pricks as major players in the "war").

explorerx4

Right now, despite having a bi chunk f money burning a hole in my pocket after selling my truck, I am having a hard time justifying another vehicle. My car is just about a year old and it only has a bit over 6K on it.
I have had 2 daily drivers since the late 70's.
Between WFH/retirement, Covid, just don't get out much.

xwesx

explorerx4 said:

Right now, despite having a bi chunk f money burning a hole in my pocket after selling my truck, I am having a hard time justifying another vehicle. My car is just about a year old and it only has a bit over 6K on it.
I have had 2 daily drivers since the late 70's.
Between WFH/retirement, Covid, just don't get out much.

It's a wonderful and strange feeling, isn't it?

tifighter

xwesx said:

For electric, such commonality has yet to exist (and probably won't with elitist pricks as major players in the "war").

Tesla has said, multiple times, that they would be open to the idea of letting other brands access Superchargers if they were willing to contribute to the costs of building the network. No one has stepped up, so I don't blame Tesla for not prioritizing commonality.

andres3

28firefighter said:

I just found the rant entertaining - and of course then asking nearly the price of a new car. Anyone can get a lemon, but making it clear that it is a lemon when you're trying to sell it is a bold approach.

Honest Abe. Plus 2 points for honesty.

stickguy

a week and a half now that we have been a 1 car family (and already "banked" one saved lease payment!) and have not missed it in the least. And likely won't any time soon, unless I need to say run up north (2 hours) to do something with my father at his complex (which I might this weekend since they are moving from one building unit to another). But if I do, likely the wife comes anyway. If she doesn't, then would just have to hang at home where she has plenty of things to do (and really no place to go).

stickguy

tifighter said:

xwesx said:

For electric, such commonality has yet to exist (and probably won't with elitist pricks as major players in the "war").

Tesla has said, multiple times, that they would be open to the idea of letting other brands access Superchargers if they were willing to contribute to the costs of building the network. No one has stepped up, so I don't blame Tesla for not prioritizing commonality.

wonder how hard it would be to retrofit supercharges to work with other cars? I assume those generic charging complexes can also handle a Tesla already.