Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

roadburner

Michaell said:

ab348 said:

The wood trim may have been installed by a dealer. Remember, this was the era when Honda and their dealers were involved in shenanigans to inflate their profits due to the exceedingly high demand for their cars, so the corporate head office was taking bribes from dealers to get bigger allocations and the dealers were paying for those by packing their new-car inventory with every accessory and mop-and-glow treatment they could think of. But I don't think the wood was a Honda accessory.

I recommend the book "Arrogance and Accords", which documents the whole sordid tale. Written by an insider who had a front row seat to the whole thing.

In 1984 my girlfriend(now wife) wanted an Accord. We went to every dealer in Cincinnati and every dealer wanted to play games. She likely would have been a Honda customer for life if the short-sighted dealers hadn't soured her on the brand.

Michaell

roadburner said:

Michaell said:

ab348 said:

The wood trim may have been installed by a dealer. Remember, this was the era when Honda and their dealers were involved in shenanigans to inflate their profits due to the exceedingly high demand for their cars, so the corporate head office was taking bribes from dealers to get bigger allocations and the dealers were paying for those by packing their new-car inventory with every accessory and mop-and-glow treatment they could think of. But I don't think the wood was a Honda accessory.

I recommend the book "Arrogance and Accords", which documents the whole sordid tale. Written by an insider who had a front row seat to the whole thing.

In 1984 my girlfriend(now wife) wanted an Accord. We went to every dealer in Cincinnati and every dealer wanted to play games. She likely would have been a Honda customer for life if the short-sighted dealers hadn't soured her on the brand.

I don’t know what happened, but my wife feels the same way about Honda’s.

Michaell

explorerx4 said:

@Michaell,
Thanks, just downloaded the book to kindle.

Enjoy!

There are some stories about the Honda dealers in my home town in CA mentioned.

roadburner

I always like to check out reviews of any car I'm considering. Funny thing, I keep finding the F22 2 Series at or near the top of the rankings for sub $50k sports cars/coupes.
So I'm thinking, BMW currently has $3500 off new 2 Series coupes and I get a $500 rebate from BMW CCA. I think I'll call my friend at BMW of Louisville and see if he has any 2ers at order status 112(meaning the options can be changed). I'm thinking I could possibly pick up a M240i with three pedals, no sunroof, and every other option I want a price in the mid $40k range. Sunset Orange, Cognac leather, and CF trim. Hmmm...

breld

My local dealer has a slightly used (executive demo) M240i in that sunset orange, which I love...but somehow it ended up with the red leather interior.

The orange exterior? I’d totally take. The red leather? Same. But together?

And since I’ve been obsessing over 2-series myself...@roadburner, you’d prefer a nicely discounted new M240i over, let’s say, a 2018 M2 for around the same money? I guess as you’ve pointed out, unless you go with the Comp it’s not enough of an upgrade?

breld

And in case no one noticed, the 2019 M2 at cars and bids ended up at $54,500. It was a fine example that I’m sure was well taken care of, but certainly no deal going that route.

roadburner

I agree with you on the Coral Red leather; it works with Black, Mineral Gray, and White, but NOT with Sunset Orange.
As for a new M240i, I'd also get 0.9% financing and it would be essentially equivalent to a base M2.

breld

I’m not gonna lie...for all the performance upgrades you may get in an M2, I love the aesthetic touches as well with the front bumper and wider wheel flares.

And I know some of that is functional too to accommodate the suspension and such. But realistically the performance of an M240i would be enough and I assume on par with my Supra.

breld

Another local BMW dealer I’ve worked with plenty, including the 228i earlier this year, just got a slightly used 2020 M2 in.

It’d be more tempting if it had a manual, but it doesn’t. I’m not opposed to the DCT at all, but it’s not all that compelling to switch for an auto when it would pretty much feel the same as my current ride.

I mean, who would make a change just for the sake of change? 😀

au1994

mjfloyd1 said:

au1994 said:

Buckle your safety belts and put your tray tables in the upright and locked position...

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2001-honda-prelude-36/

Only one key fob. Must have bought it from a Kia dealer and financed through Kia finance 😂

It’s probably still going to sell for a ton but I certainly would not have listed a low mileage example in this state. A couple of easy fixes like getting a new rear view mirror and a paint correction would make all the difference.

roadburner

breld said:

Another local BMW dealer I’ve worked with plenty, including the 228i earlier this year, just got a slightly used 2020 M2 in.

It’d be more tempting if it had a manual, but it doesn’t. I’m not opposed to the DCT at all, but it’s not all that compelling to switch for an auto when it would pretty much feel the same as my current ride.

I mean, who would make a change just for the sake of change? 😀

The killer for me is that an M2 Comp is one of the last cars where the manual is faster than the automatic or DCT.

mjfloyd1

roadburner said:

breld said:

Another local BMW dealer I’ve worked with plenty, including the 228i earlier this year, just got a slightly used 2020 M2 in.

It’d be more tempting if it had a manual, but it doesn’t. I’m not opposed to the DCT at all, but it’s not all that compelling to switch for an auto when it would pretty much feel the same as my current ride.

I mean, who would make a change just for the sake of change? 😀

The killer for me is that an M2 Comp is one of the last cars where the manual is faster than the automatic or DCT.

Not with me driving it!

oldfarmer50

roadburner said:

oldfarmer50 said:

I’ve gone down that “get your special e quote price” road much to my dismay. Some of our former dealer posters say the reason you can’t really get an internet price is because they fear you’ll just shop it all over town to save $50.

I completely understand why they dealers don’t want to give a quote over email. My point is that a store shouldn’t offer an e-quote link if they aren’t going to provide a legitimate quote- all that does is make me much less likely to want to deal with that store.

I agree 100%. For a knowledgeable buyer it just aggravates but there must be something that works with the novice (most buyers) for them to keep doing it.

corvette

Great color combo on this Passat TDI (it's incorrectly labeled as a manual when it's a DSG, but it has a record of a transmission service at 40k on the Carfax).

oldfarmer50

roadburner said:

I always like to check out reviews of any car I'm considering. Funny thing, I keep finding the F22 2 Series at or near the top of the rankings for sub $50k sports cars/coupes.
So I'm thinking, BMW currently has $3500 off new 2 Series coupes and I get a $500 rebate from BMW CCA. I think I'll call my friend at BMW of Louisville and see if he has any 2ers at order status 112(meaning the options can be changed). I'm thinking I could possibly pick up a M240i with three pedals, no sunroof, and every other option I want a price in the mid $40k range. Sunset Orange, Cognac leather, and CF trim. Hmmm...

That sunset Orange isn’t what I would have thought. More of a bronze. Very striking. I think you should go for it.

28firefighter

+1.

qbrozen

A little green Fiat literally followed me home tonight. While the ad lasts, you can see the couple or bad pics there.
https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/829653842/overview?aff=share_other

When I waved $7k cash at him, he bit. I was surprised. Thought we’d have to go a little higher. Car is super clean. It sat in his garage other than the little he drove it the past 5 yrs.

ab348

Cool car! I like the colors.

roadburner

qbrozen said:

A little green Fiat literally followed me home tonight. While the ad lasts, you can see the couple or bad pics there.
https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/829653842/overview?aff=share_other

When I waved $7k cash at him, he bit. I was surprised. Thought we’d have to go a little higher. Car is super clean. It sat in his garage other than the little he drove it the past 5 yrs.

I like- to the point I'm envious!

28firefighter

Hard to go wrong with that one for $7k. Congrats!

Michaell

Fantastic deal, q!

Love the colors - assuming the wife likes it, as well.

@corvette, how many punches do we have, with only 5+ weeks left in the year?

corvette

@Michaell - The Fiat makes 39 punches. We had a lull for a while, but it's picked back up recently. We only need one more punch to match 2019's 40 punches.

Michaell

corvette said:

@Michaell - The Fiat makes 39 punches. We had a lull for a while, but it's picked back up recently. We only need one more punch to match 2019's 40 punches.

All during a pandemic. Crazy

corvette

Michaell said:

All during a pandemic. Crazy

Speaking of which, the Chevrolet - Buick - GMC dealer across the river is hosting a "must be present to win" raffle. There are ways to require people to attend (even virtually) and/or get their contact info that don't involve packing a bunch of people into a dealership on Black Friday. Idiots.

https://www.coyledeals.com/blackfriday/

Michaell

corvette said:

Michaell said:

All during a pandemic. Crazy

Speaking of which, the Chevrolet - Buick - GMC dealer across the river is hosting a "must be present to win" raffle. There are ways to require people to attend (even virtually) and/or get their contact info that don't involve packing a bunch of people into a dealership on Black Friday.

https://www.coyledeals.com/blackfriday/

OK, that is crazy.

qbrozen

Yes, the wife really likes it. She likes the upright seating position and, of course, “it is SO CUTE!”

breld

@qbrozen - congrats! That all seems to have worked out well.

oldfarmer50

Michaell said:

corvette said:

@Michaell - The Fiat makes 39 punches. We had a lull for a while, but it's picked back up recently. We only need one more punch to match 2019's 40 punches.

All during a pandemic. Crazy

At least all those new cars won’t be getting miled up and losing value. I know on 2 of my cars I probably didn’t drive them 2000 miles all year.

xwesx

qbrozen said:

Yes, the wife really likes it. She likes the upright seating position and, of course, “it is SO CUTE!”

That's great! Man, that seller has no idea how close he came to losing the one real buyer he had on the line....

stickguy

sb55 said:

@stickguy
Consider sheet vinyl. We put it on our unheated cottages (not glued). Cut it 1/4” short and put some 1/4 round molding around the perimeter.

decent option. we did not really look at that. I guess it could sit flat enough once the shelves, etc. get on top of it! Might have to put a transition piece at the door opening to keep it flat.

stickguy

congrats on the Fiat. Hard to go wrong at that price with those miles. I like the colors, and might even buy one like it if it had a stick! I did see one like that (might have been same color) parked at Lowes tonight and pointed it out to the wife. She was, well, not a fan. Too small for her for sure.

so I know what that means. If I decide to buy one, I need to not tell her in advance!

mjfloyd1

corvette said:

@Michaell - The Fiat makes 39 punches. We had a lull for a while, but it's picked back up recently. We only need one more punch to match 2019's 40 punches.

What was the total during the TDI party fouls?

mjfloyd1

Michaell said:

corvette said:

Michaell said:

All during a pandemic. Crazy

Speaking of which, the Chevrolet - Buick - GMC dealer across the river is hosting a "must be present to win" raffle. There are ways to require people to attend (even virtually) and/or get their contact info that don't involve packing a bunch of people into a dealership on Black Friday.

https://www.coyledeals.com/blackfriday/

OK, that is crazy.

It just says that you must be on location. You could be outside on the lot sitting in your car. It is still odd though.

tjc78

Congrats Q! Good find.

kyfdx

qbrozen said:

Yes, the wife really likes it. She likes the upright seating position and, of course, “it is SO CUTE!”

I think this gives you a free pass for the next three vehicles, right?

ab348

It just occurred to me, QB, that 5 or the 6 vehicles in your stable at present are products of FCA (or whatever they call themselves these days), even the MB which at the time was still part of that unholy alliance. If you trade the BMW for an Alfa they may give you some kind of loyalty award. :laughing:

graphicguy

Michaell said:

graphicguy said:

qbrozen said:

I've searched and it seems most owners have had positive experiences with their 500s. Most naysayers don't even own them and are just repeating past biases they have heard.

@qbrozen ....I know two people who own a 500. Not sure the models, but both love them with none of the unreliability issues we’ve heard with Fiats. Small sample size, but you can always punt it if it becomes anything less than reliable. Looks like fun, too.

My cousin owned a 500 for a time. She absolutely loved it, and I'm not aware of any reliability issues. She was forced to get rid of it (financial issues) and eventually replaced it with a Kia Soul with a stick shift.

A Kia Soul was less expensive than a Fiat 500? Who knew?

graphicguy

@breld ....very, very cool! Nice looking. Congrats to you and your wife!

graphicguy

kyfdx said:

oldfarmer50 said:

ab348 said:

Had the winter tires & wheels put on the ATS today and learned that the OE summer tires are down to 4/32” tread depth so I’ll probably be replacing them next spring. Really no hardship since I never liked the OE Bridgestone tires. Not going to get run-flats when I do and want something a bit less ultra high-performance. I’ve always been a Michelin man so I’ll probably look at their lineup.

I just put Michelin pilot sport 4 all seasons on my car and so far I’m pleased. Less noisy and better handling than the OEM Pirelli.

That's what I just put on the GTI. Great deal at Costco. Only put about 500 miles on them, but I like them a lot.

My son just did the same with his GTI. He loves his, too!

oldfarmer50

graphicguy said:

Michaell said:

graphicguy said:

qbrozen said:

I've searched and it seems most owners have had positive experiences with their 500s. Most naysayers don't even own them and are just repeating past biases they have heard.

@qbrozen ....I know two people who own a 500. Not sure the models, but both love them with none of the unreliability issues we’ve heard with Fiats. Small sample size, but you can always punt it if it becomes anything less than reliable. Looks like fun, too.

My cousin owned a 500 for a time. She absolutely loved it, and I'm not aware of any reliability issues. She was forced to get rid of it (financial issues) and eventually replaced it with a Kia Soul with a stick shift.

A Kia Soul was less expensive than a Fiat 500? Who knew?

When I looked at a 500 convertible they were low $20s. I think the hardtop was about $17k. My mid trim Soul listed at $22k with the base model at around $16k. When I bought in 19’ there were big discounts on the Soul.

graphicguy

roadburner said:

oldfarmer50 said:

I’ve gone down that “get your special e quote price” road much to my dismay. Some of our former dealer posters say the reason you can’t really get an internet price is because they fear you’ll just shop it all over town to save $50.

I completely understand why they dealers don’t want to give a quote over email. My point is that a store shouldn’t offer an e-quote link if they aren’t going to provide a legitimate quote- all that does is make me much less likely to want to deal with that store.

I’m of the same mind. If a dealer doesn’t want to provide a quote, then why the heck do they put quotes out on the WEB or have quote links on their WEB site?

qbrozen

ab348 said:

It just occurred to me, QB, that 5 or the 6 vehicles in your stable at present are products of FCA (or whatever they call themselves these days), even the MB which at the time was still part of that unholy alliance. If you trade the BMW for an Alfa they may give you some kind of loyalty award. :laughing:

Huh. I guess. I mean... my 67 from when they were independent. The Charger was Cerberus-owned Dodge, although a leftover from the Daimler era. The benz is a year older, so it is from the Daimler-Chrysler era, although nothing in common with any Chrysler product. And then the FCA van and convertible.

Given the various origins, the ties are tenuous. I think the only real crossover is the transmission and differential from the E-class found under my Charger.

corvette

mjfloyd1 said:

corvette said:

@Michaell - The Fiat makes 39 punches. We had a lull for a while, but it's picked back up recently. We only need one more punch to match 2019's 40 punches.

What was the total during the TDI party fouls?

45 in 2016 and 46 in 2017, although I think @xwesx ’s Q7 was the only TDI bought in 2017.

qbrozen

BTW, I blasted that Lexus of Maplewood in MN on several platforms. I see the respond often to those on Google. Wonder if they will comment on mine.

corvette

qbrozen said:

BTW, I blasted that Lexus of Maplewood in MN on several platforms. I see the respond often to those on Google. Wonder if they will comment on mine.

That's a good thought - I blasted the Chevy dealer hosting the raffle on Google.

fintail

Heck, MB started that alliance. I look at the chaos left in the wake as revenge for 1945

ab348 said:

It just occurred to me, QB, that 5 or the 6 vehicles in your stable at present are products of FCA (or whatever they call themselves these days), even the MB which at the time was still part of that unholy alliance. If you trade the BMW for an Alfa they may give you some kind of loyalty award. :laughing:

sda

oldfarmer50 said:

graphicguy said:

Michaell said:

graphicguy said:

qbrozen said:

I've searched and it seems most owners have had positive experiences with their 500s. Most naysayers don't even own them and are just repeating past biases they have heard.

@qbrozen ....I know two people who own a 500. Not sure the models, but both love them with none of the unreliability issues we’ve heard with Fiats. Small sample size, but you can always punt it if it becomes anything less than reliable. Looks like fun, too.

My cousin owned a 500 for a time. She absolutely loved it, and I'm not aware of any reliability issues. She was forced to get rid of it (financial issues) and eventually replaced it with a Kia Soul with a stick shift.

A Kia Soul was less expensive than a Fiat 500? Who knew?

When I looked at a 500 convertible they were low $20s. I think the hardtop was about $17k. My mid trim Soul listed at $22k with the base model at around $16k. When I bought in 19’ there were big discounts on the Soul.

Glad you didn’t buy the newer version with the CVT. Seems Kia is having trouble with those. As good as the CVT was in the Accord I like the conventional 6 sp automatic in the Passat much better.

mjfloyd1

@graphicguy - any update on your eye/vision? I hope that it is improving

roadburner

corvette said:

qbrozen said:

BTW, I blasted that Lexus of Maplewood in MN on several platforms. I see the respond often to those on Google. Wonder if they will comment on mine.

That's a good thought - I blasted the Chevy dealer hosting the raffle on Google.

I did the same to Andy Mohr Ford in Indianapolis when they wasted my time after I drove up there to buy a Mustang GT.

28firefighter

Drove the Tacoma TRD Off Road with Premium and Advanced Tech this morning. I’m definitely not over the moon or anything, but I did like it.

Pros:
- Excellent feature set - everything you want and nothing you don’t. I especially liked the surround view camera and front camera.
- Very comfortable seats. You all know this is a biggie for me and I was pretty concerned on this front. Thankfully I found a seating position I liked.
- Better than expected ride quality. Not jarring or anything like that.
- Perfect ride height and visibility.
- Outstanding LED headlights.
- Price point.

Cons:
- The 6 speed auto really holds this back. Constantly up shifting and hesitant to downshift unless you really goose it.
- It doesn’t feel slow, but it certainly isn’t fast. Which is fine for what it is. Was strange getting into the i3 after which has a longer 0-60 time but just feels faster.
- Good bit of body roll. I wonder if this is specific to the off road suspension and would be better on the TRD Sport.

I told all of this to my wife and her take was this sounds like a no go. I’m inclined to agree, but I’ve always wanted one of these - her concern is after the novelty wears off, I’ll hate it.

Btw. The internet director suggested a first thing appointment today so I wouldn’t be there during high traffic time. But by the time I got back every single desk was full of appointments. Obviously covid not slowing the market here!

Dealer was great though. Super low pressure AND had the truck pulled around when I arrived. Never had that before.