Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

breld

I have heard the title and registration process can take longer than usual though, and I’m sure the current environment doesn’t help things. Last go around, I requested to “self-register” and they said they’d send me a check for the registration fees paid. Instead I received the new plates in the mail, which can be convenient except we wanted to use our old plates that had a credit associated with them still.

I’m just gonna stay on top of that better this time.

oldfarmer50

cdnpinhead said:

Simply amazing. Someone needs to keep the economy up and running, and it's certainly not going to be me. I still find it interesting that the people who collect and/or churn cars don't seem to drive them much, let alone on real road trips..

Go figure.

Oh, I understand it, I just don’t have the courage to do it.

mjfloyd1

breld said:

I get to drive the JCW this morning - getting the winter tires put on it that we had just bought for the recently departed MINI. The guy at discount tire was a little confused when we took her car in earlier this week to take the snows off!

Very nice that the JCW “only” came with 17” wheels, same as her S.

What is your impression of the JCW with AT?

explorerx4

@breld,
When I sold my truck, there was over a year left on the 2 year registration.
I went through the CT Motor Vehicle website and got a check for the unused 2nd year($88).

oldfarmer50

tjc78 said:

Great design on those. Nice example but wouldn’t be my first color choice.

Whenever I see a 92 Accord, I laugh and think of this.

NSFW

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nVTCJOy0vrk

That’s hilarious!

oldfarmer50

qbrozen said:

got a video on the 1957. Wife likes is. I made an offer. No reply yet. Sticking point will be their BS dealer add of "$799 for exterior and interior protection." I basically offered their asking price of $10k plus $662.50 tax plus $337.50 to distribute to DMV/dealer as they see fit. $11k OTD, and I have to arrange my own shipping. Seems more than fair to me for a convertible in Minnesota in November.

Guy with the 2013 in NJ has been writing back now. He supposedly had someone coming at 11am today. I told him if that buyer is not interested to get back to me with his address and I'll see if I can make it up there today. It is a little over an hr away.

I love it that a seller is playing hard ball on a convertible in November. He must be counting on a real sucker....er.....enthusiast who will stop at nothing.

breld

mjfloyd1 said:

breld said:

I get to drive the JCW this morning - getting the winter tires put on it that we had just bought for the recently departed MINI. The guy at discount tire was a little confused when we took her car in earlier this week to take the snows off!

Very nice that the JCW “only” came with 17” wheels, same as her S.

What is your impression of the JCW with AT?

Well, personally I think it’s fantastic. There was a time when my wife and I had five cars in the fleet and the only automatic was the minivan. But, nowadays neither of us have all that much interest in a manual as our primary car.

As for the JCW, it strikes me as a mild performance upgrade over the S, which we appreciate. She wasn’t looking for more performance, so there was a little concern that the JCW would be too firm. With the dynamic damper control, it seems the JCW is no harsher than the S (the S is already on the firm sporty side).

The exhaust has a nice note to it, and I always appreciate larger brakes. It’s definitely quicker, just not night and day (at least in our one day of ownership).

oldfarmer50

Guy with the 2013 in NJ has been writing back now. He supposedly had someone coming at 11am today. I told him if that buyer is not interested to get back to me with his address and I'll see if I can make it up there today. It is a little over an hr away.

Ha ha, the “other interested buyer” ploy.

oldfarmer50

qbrozen said:

First pencil from dealer:
$10,495 selling price
$799 accessories
$460 "fees"
$682 tax
$12,436 total

I replied:
The listed price on your website is $9999, and the fine print has nothing about accessories. It reads, “Plus tax, tag, $100 dealer administration fee, registration & title fees.” Here is the breakdown of my offer, again.

He then sent another one, apologizing for the error:
$9999 selling price
$799 accessories
$430 fees
$650 tax
$11,878 total

To which, I said:
I’m not interested in an $800 wax job. I know you say it is already on there, but that doesn’t mean I want it or am willing to pay for it. I’m going to stick with my $11k offer. It is a convertible in Minnesota in November. I think I’m being very fair.


Hell, if he comes back with the BS removed, we'd be at $11,079. I'm fine with that. Is it so wrong to just get what is advertised? Geesh!

With that much dancing around I’d be suspicious.

oldfarmer50

nyccarguy said:

I don't think I ever finished the story about my friend and the CPO Prius he was trying to buy for his Deli business. Turns out the dealership had 2 Red Prius'. 1 was the local trade in that he was interested in (2016 40K miles, $14,999 plus tax, $799 doc fee, DMV). The other had been hit and there was damage to the frame that wasn't repaired properly. The head of service confused the 2 cars. They told him they'd take $250 off their "NON NEGOTIABLE PRICE." After searching used & CPO Priuses far and wide he told them: OK. I'll take it, but only if it has 4 matching tires. The dealer said they'd put the new tires, but then wouldn't honor the $250 discount. He said: Fine. I'll Take it. He hasn't heard back from them since.

He started searching around NY, NJ, CT, MA, PA to try and find a Prius L Eco in Black. His search lead him all the way to a dealer in Western, PA (Mars, PA). They had the car, the deal, & 0% Financing (only in Western PA) to boot. He sent them ALL his paperwork, confirmed they received it, & said for them to call him so he could coordinate driving out there (7 hours ish), take delivery, & come back. He hasn't heard back from them.

In speaking to a number of dealers, quite a few of them asked if he was looking at the lower price point to look at a Corolla Hybrid. So as he was waiting for the local dealer with the CPO Prius & the dealer in Mars, PA to call him back he moved on with his life. He had to pick up something for work in Milford, CT. As he was leaving he noticed a large Toyota dealer across the street. He started walking the lot, sales guy asked if he needed help. "Sure, I'm looking for either a Prius L Eco or a Corolla Hybrid." They didn't have any Prius L Ecos on the lot, but did have a few Corolla Hybrids.

They presented him with a very strong offer on a Corolla Hybrid that even with their $999 doc fee was cheaper than any other dealer he had called. (Every dealer he asked about the Prius L Eco & who mentioned the Corolla Hybrid). They asked when he could take delivery. "Today. Call me when the car is ready."

They said all their cars are prepped and ready to go. Once he got approved, they called him back. He was in and out of the F&I office in 15 minutes. An excellent dealership experience.

I thought CT dealers doc fees topped out at about $600. Is there no limit? Why play these games? In NY I’ll allow a $75 doc and I don’t even like doing that.

Seems dealers are all playing hard ball these days. I mean, fooling around with selling a Prius or other hybrid when gas is $2.00/gal.? That’s just stupid.

corvette

@nyccarguy - sounds like a crummy experience from a couple of Toyota dealers. I do think that a lot of dealers "punt" buyers they deem to be price-sensitive, but that's really no excuse for them ignoring him.

oldfarmer50

sda said:

I feel very fortunate that the purchase experience with the Q5 in July 2019 and the Passat last October, both at different VW dealers were a good experience. Did they try to upsell in the finance room, yes, but they were not a hard sell. Overall a simple transaction with no unwanted surprises.

My worst upsell experience was the F&I at the Chevy dealer where I bought a 10 year old Ford. If I had purchased everything on his list it would have cost me twice the price of the car.

corvette

oldfarmer50 said:

qbrozen said:

got a video on the 1957. Wife likes is. I made an offer. No reply yet. Sticking point will be their BS dealer add of "$799 for exterior and interior protection." I basically offered their asking price of $10k plus $662.50 tax plus $337.50 to distribute to DMV/dealer as they see fit. $11k OTD, and I have to arrange my own shipping. Seems more than fair to me for a convertible in Minnesota in November.

Guy with the 2013 in NJ has been writing back now. He supposedly had someone coming at 11am today. I told him if that buyer is not interested to get back to me with his address and I'll see if I can make it up there today. It is a little over an hr away.

I love it that a seller is playing hard ball on a convertible in November. He must be counting on a real sucker....er.....enthusiast who will stop at nothing.

Back when my dad briefly worked for a local dealer, they had a used V6 Firebird convertible on the lot. I think it was probably a former rental they picked up at auction, and it was whatever the last year for them was (2003?). Anyway, a guy from 300 miles away calls up and buys it for his daughter. Apparently it was the closest late-model one he could find. They drove it up north to him and delivered it to him in a snowstorm.

ab348

Had the winter tires & wheels put on the ATS today and learned that the OE summer tires are down to 4/32” tread depth so I’ll probably be replacing them next spring. Really no hardship since I never liked the OE Bridgestone tires. Not going to get run-flats when I do and want something a bit less ultra high-performance. I’ve always been a Michelin man so I’ll probably look at their lineup.

fintail

When I was in high school, these were the popular girl/cheerleader etc car of choice. I knew a girl who had a yellow Si of that generation, her dad owned the local dealership. This was in 1993-94, so it wasn't brand new, but it was still one of the nicest cars in the parking lot. Another girl, doctor's daughter, had a Si 4WS, white, don't see those anymore. And a friend drove her mom's new 94 Si 4WS to school now and then.

isellhondas said:

That is probably the ULTIMATE Prelude! If anyone can find a yellow 1991 Prelude SI in original condition either a stick or an automatic it will break the bank! Throw away your price guides! People will travel across the states to grab one of these. Impossible to find! They don't have to be yellow but THAT was the color!

fintail

Funny thing, my friend called me this afternoon. First thing he says: "want to go to Sacramento?" - my response, no thanks. I brought him down to Earth by reminding him he'd need to rent a garage for it, as his spots are taken. I also mentioned the wood, he claimed it was a dealer-installed thing - I couldn't find a brochure online to confirm.

I told him to offer 6K. I don't think he'll do it though.

corvette said:

Also included at no extra charge are tires from three different manufacturers! Not a fan of the burgundy interior, or the aftermarket wood trim. Looks fairly clean, though.

28firefighter

I’m scheduled to drive a Tacoma Off-road Double Cab short box on Sunday morning. Has premium and advanced tech on it.

Won’t be making any moves because, if any of you follow Cars and Conversations, I’m locked in on a home refi that won’t close until around 12/23.

tjc78

oldfarmer50 said:

tjc78 said:

Great design on those. Nice example but wouldn’t be my first color choice.

Whenever I see a 92 Accord, I laugh and think of this.

NSFW

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nVTCJOy0vrk

That’s hilarious!

Oldie but a goodie !

stickguy

my 2 sales to Carvana were very efficiently done. Other than the glitch with the first one where I reserved to the wrong location, and thought a truck was coming to pick it up and they thought I was bringing it to the vending machine. But once we figured that out, the actual process at the location was painless (plus I got to see the vending machine deliver a car!) and they paid for an Uber to take me home. the last one, truck showed up, I signed some papers on the hood, got the check, and he was off. Driver did give a nice compliment to the TLX too.

I suspect buying would be just as efficient.

oldfarmer50

ab348 said:

Had the winter tires & wheels put on the ATS today and learned that the OE summer tires are down to 4/32” tread depth so I’ll probably be replacing them next spring. Really no hardship since I never liked the OE Bridgestone tires. Not going to get run-flats when I do and want something a bit less ultra high-performance. I’ve always been a Michelin man so I’ll probably look at their lineup.

I just put Michelin pilot sport 4 all seasons on my car and so far I’m pleased. Less noisy and better handling than the OEM Pirelli.

cdnpinhead

I run Michelins on the Forester and in the winter on the TSX -- summer TSX tires are Continental..

breld

28firefighter said:

I’m scheduled to drive a Tacoma Off-road Double Cab short box on Sunday morning. Has premium and advanced tech on it.

Won’t be making any moves because, if any of you follow Cars and Conversations, I’m locked in on a home refi that won’t close until around 12/23.

We bought our Cayenne while in the midst of refinancing our home. I just gave the bank a heads up and they said it should be okay.

qbrozen

Never heard anything back from MN after my last message at 12:25 with my “final final” offer of asking price. LOL.

Meanwhile, NJ seller didn’t make a sale, I suppose, so he reached out and asked when I could get there. We have a tentative appt for 4:30 tomorrow. He promises to let me know if it sells before then.

Funny convo with the wife a few mins ago. I was relaying my back and forth with MN, and at some point she says “$11k?! That’s too much!” I confusedly reminded her that I sent her the ad with the $9999 price. “Well, you sent me one that was 9-something, yeah.” Yes, dear, 9999. You gotta pay tax and tags on that. “Oh....right.”

Women.

stickguy

she might have freaked out having to pay shipping.

28firefighter

breld said:

28firefighter said:

I’m scheduled to drive a Tacoma Off-road Double Cab short box on Sunday morning. Has premium and advanced tech on it.

Won’t be making any moves because, if any of you follow Cars and Conversations, I’m locked in on a home refi that won’t close until around 12/23.

We bought our Cayenne while in the midst of refinancing our home. I just gave the back a heads up and they said it should be okay.

Fair point. I don’t need to do anything right now though.

corvette

28firefighter said:

I’m scheduled to drive a Tacoma Off-road Double Cab short box on Sunday morning. Has premium and advanced tech on it.

Won’t be making any moves because, if any of you follow Cars and Conversations, I’m locked in on a home refi that won’t close until around 12/23.

My refi is supposed to close early next month. Close to 1/3 lower payment for at least the next five years by going to an ARM product, plus a higher HELOC limit since I’ve paid down the principal. Very easy transaction, I just called up the bank down the street where I have my checking account and asked about refi options. They presented a product that looked fair, and I took it.

28firefighter

I tried really hard to get the two local institutions I’ve worked with to match. But they couldn’t even touch it.

ab348

fintail said:

Funny thing, my friend called me this afternoon. First thing he says: "want to go to Sacramento?" - my response, no thanks. I brought him down to Earth by reminding him he'd need to rent a garage for it, as his spots are taken. I also mentioned the wood, he claimed it was a dealer-installed thing - I couldn't find a brochure online to confirm.

The wood trim may have been installed by a dealer. Remember, this was the era when Honda and their dealers were involved in shenanigans to inflate their profits due to the exceedingly high demand for their cars, so the corporate head office was taking bribes from dealers to get bigger allocations and the dealers were paying for those by packing their new-car inventory with every accessory and mop-and-glow treatment they could think of. But I don't think the wood was a Honda accessory.

stickguy

I am still waiting on my refi. going on 4 months now since I applied. It is a personal quest at this point.

sb55

@stickguy
Consider sheet vinyl. We put it on our unheated cottages (not glued). Cut it 1/4” short and put some 1/4 round molding around the perimeter.

au1994

stickguy said:

I am still waiting on my refi. going on 4 months now since I applied. It is a personal quest at this point.

Ours too forever too, April to late August. Everyone got inundated when rates dropped in the spring.

ab348

This '91 Chevy 1500 pickup is in unreal condition inside and out, looks almost new. Price is a bit stunning though. I wonder if because it is an Idaho rust-free creampuff brought to Poughkeepsie can demand a big premium?

https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/cars-for-sale/chevrolet/1500/2446910.html

kyfdx

qbrozen said:

Never heard back from the salesman after I offered EXACTLY what they advertised it for. The SM called me. He evidently wasn't even talking to the salesman. I told him we'd been going back and forth. He asked if there was anything he could do to solidify the deal. I informed him that I offered exactly what they advertised. He said "oh great. well that should make things easy." I said "yes, it should." And left it at that. He said I should call him with any issues. Maybe I'll write to him tomorrow morn.

NJ seller didn't let me know if he sold it or not. Odd. I can only assume he did. But my calendar has gotten crowded for the weekend, so I'll let it sit for now. Since he is private, I can let that wait till Sunday, if it is still there.

If I got the SM on the phone, we'd do the deal right then, or I'd be out..

kyfdx

28firefighter said:

I’m scheduled to drive a Tacoma Off-road Double Cab short box on Sunday morning. Has premium and advanced tech on it.

Won’t be making any moves because, if any of you follow Cars and Conversations, I’m locked in on a home refi that won’t close until around 12/23.

TFS residuals are locked through January 4th, so not much chance the lease deal gets worse, next month.

kyfdx

oldfarmer50 said:

ab348 said:

Had the winter tires & wheels put on the ATS today and learned that the OE summer tires are down to 4/32” tread depth so I’ll probably be replacing them next spring. Really no hardship since I never liked the OE Bridgestone tires. Not going to get run-flats when I do and want something a bit less ultra high-performance. I’ve always been a Michelin man so I’ll probably look at their lineup.

I just put Michelin pilot sport 4 all seasons on my car and so far I’m pleased. Less noisy and better handling than the OEM Pirelli.

That's what I just put on the GTI. Great deal at Costco. Only put about 500 miles on them, but I like them a lot.

oldfarmer50

qbrozen said:

Never heard anything back from MN after my last message at 12:25 with my “final final” offer of asking price. LOL.

Meanwhile, NJ seller didn’t make a sale, I suppose, so he reached out and asked when I could get there. We have a tentative appt for 4:30 tomorrow. He promises to let me know if it sells before then.

Funny convo with the wife a few mins ago. I was relaying my back and forth with MN, and at some point she says “$11k?! That’s too much!” I confusedly reminded her that I sent her the ad with the $9999 price. “Well, you sent me one that was 9-something, yeah.” Yes, dear, 9999. You gotta pay tax and tags on that. “Oh....right.”

Women.

She can’t be bothered with those little financial details. She has a rich husband for that.🥰

roadburner

au1994 said:

It’s amazing to me that in this day and age of e-commerce, the breadth and depth of knowledge on the internet and COVID, dealers still play these asinine games.

I’ve been sort of shopping for an X1 replacement. Hard to get info out of some dealers. Rather than answering the question, I get “Good news!! Your Widgetmobile GX is still available!! When can you come in for a test drive?”

Or like you did on the Enclave, some ridiculous numbers...$700 on an XC60 Momentum. Seriously.

Constantly trying to get my number too as I have been email only so far. “Would you like to communicate via text?”. Ummm no as you will be calling me daily from here on out.

Don't get me started about the "Click here for E-Price!!!" game...
In contrast, a couple of the Kia dealers I've emailed have been reasonable- one to the point that if I do go with a Stinger I'm getting it from him. He even quoted me an OTD price without any games. The BMW dealers I contacted haven't been bad either- but I usually contact a salesperson directly.
I did contact a friend who used to work at BMW-he now works at the Alfa/Audi/Jaguar/LR/Maserati/Porsche dealer- and found out he can sell from any store.
That may not end well for me...

oldfarmer50

ab348 said:

This '91 Chevy 1500 pickup is in unreal condition inside and out, looks almost new. Price is a bit stunning though. I wonder if because it is an Idaho rust-free creampuff brought to Poughkeepsie can demand a big premium?

https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/cars-for-sale/chevrolet/1500/2446910.html

I just passed through there Thursday. I could have looked at it for you. The ad doesn’t give an address but a rust free truck in upstate NY is a rare bird. Not $20k rare but rare.

oldfarmer50

roadburner said:

au1994 said:

It’s amazing to me that in this day and age of e-commerce, the breadth and depth of knowledge on the internet and COVID, dealers still play these asinine games.

I’ve been sort of shopping for an X1 replacement. Hard to get info out of some dealers. Rather than answering the question, I get “Good news!! Your Widgetmobile GX is still available!! When can you come in for a test drive?”

Or like you did on the Enclave, some ridiculous numbers...$700 on an XC60 Momentum. Seriously.

Constantly trying to get my number too as I have been email only so far. “Would you like to communicate via text?”. Ummm no as you will be calling me daily from here on out.

Don't get me started about the "Click here for E-Price!!!" game...
In contrast, a couple of the Kia dealers I've emailed have been reasonable- one to the point that if I do with a Stinger I'm getting it from him. He even quoted me an OTD price without any games. The BMW dealers I contacted haven't been bad either- but I usually contact a salesperson directly.
I did contact a friend who used to work at BMW-he now works at the Alfa/Audi/Jaguar/LR/Maserati/Porsche dealer- and found out he can sell from any store.
That may not end well for me...

I’ve gone down that “get your special e quote price” road much to my dismay. Some of our former dealer posters say the reason you can’t really get an internet price is because they fear you’ll just shop it all over town to save $50.

explorerx4

If it is still there after Thanksgiving, I'm gong to use the 'Make us an Offer' button one dealer has.
They also have another labelled 'Lower my Price'.

au1994

breld said:

28firefighter said:

I’m scheduled to drive a Tacoma Off-road Double Cab short box on Sunday morning. Has premium and advanced tech on it.

Won’t be making any moves because, if any of you follow Cars and Conversations, I’m locked in on a home refi that won’t close until around 12/23.

We bought our Cayenne while in the midst of refinancing our home. I just gave the bank a heads up and they said it should be okay.

Yes, as long as you let them know and they have pulled credit, you should be ok.

oldfarmer50

explorerx4 said:

If it is still there after Thanksgiving, I'm gong to use the 'Make us an Offer' button one dealer has.
They also have another labelled 'Lower my Price'.

Do you really think you can lower their price by clicking a button? I’d be impressed if that actually worked. Maybe I’m too cynical.

au1994

Buckle your safety belts and put your tray tables in the upright and locked position...

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2001-honda-prelude-36/

au1994

oldfarmer50 said:

roadburner said:

au1994 said:

It’s amazing to me that in this day and age of e-commerce, the breadth and depth of knowledge on the internet and COVID, dealers still play these asinine games.

I’ve been sort of shopping for an X1 replacement. Hard to get info out of some dealers. Rather than answering the question, I get “Good news!! Your Widgetmobile GX is still available!! When can you come in for a test drive?”

Or like you did on the Enclave, some ridiculous numbers...$700 on an XC60 Momentum. Seriously.

Constantly trying to get my number too as I have been email only so far. “Would you like to communicate via text?”. Ummm no as you will be calling me daily from here on out.

Don't get me started about the "Click here for E-Price!!!" game...
In contrast, a couple of the Kia dealers I've emailed have been reasonable- one to the point that if I do with a Stinger I'm getting it from him. He even quoted me an OTD price without any games. The BMW dealers I contacted haven't been bad either- but I usually contact a salesperson directly.
I did contact a friend who used to work at BMW-he now works at the Alfa/Audi/Jaguar/LR/Maserati/Porsche dealer- and found out he can sell from any store.
That may not end well for me...

I’ve gone down that “get your special e quote price” road much to my dismay. Some of our former dealer posters say the reason you can’t really get an internet price is because they fear you’ll just shop it all over town to save $50.

And I get that but giving out completely off putting numbers like I got on the Volvo is not smart. I haven’t gone back even to express my disgust. It was a 50k msrp and they gave me over 700 on a 36/12. Told them I was willing to do 1st month down.

fintail

By 1992 was it that bad? My friend was with his mom when she bought the 92 (at the small town dealer that still exists, a couple miles from my mom's house - they used to be Cadillac/Buick/GMC/Honda, now are only Honda), and claims he remembers seeing it in a brochure or similar. In the small town, where car status was different than larger places, a well equipped Accord was like a 5-series.

MSRP on the 92 LX (midrange model in US, where in Canada IIRC the hierarchy was LX-EX-EXR, in the US it was DX-LX-EX) was something like 15K and change, I think.

ab348 said:

The wood trim may have been installed by a dealer. Remember, this was the era when Honda and their dealers were involved in shenanigans to inflate their profits due to the exceedingly high demand for their cars, so the corporate head office was taking bribes from dealers to get bigger allocations and the dealers were paying for those by packing their new-car inventory with every accessory and mop-and-glow treatment they could think of. But I don't think the wood was a Honda accessory.

roadburner

oldfarmer50 said:

I’ve gone down that “get your special e quote price” road much to my dismay. Some of our former dealer posters say the reason you can’t really get an internet price is because they fear you’ll just shop it all over town to save $50.

I completely understand why they dealers don’t want to give a quote over email. My point is that a store shouldn’t offer an e-quote link if they aren’t going to provide a legitimate quote- all that does is make me much less likely to want to deal with that store.

corvette

au1994 said:

Buckle your safety belts and put your tray tables in the upright and locked position...

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2001-honda-prelude-36/

Is the rear view mirror delaminating, or am I looking at it wrong? No telling what that will bring. I love the "ACOUSTIC FEEDBACK SYSTEM" factory CD player.

Michaell

ab348 said:

fintail said:

Funny thing, my friend called me this afternoon. First thing he says: "want to go to Sacramento?" - my response, no thanks. I brought him down to Earth by reminding him he'd need to rent a garage for it, as his spots are taken. I also mentioned the wood, he claimed it was a dealer-installed thing - I couldn't find a brochure online to confirm.

The wood trim may have been installed by a dealer. Remember, this was the era when Honda and their dealers were involved in shenanigans to inflate their profits due to the exceedingly high demand for their cars, so the corporate head office was taking bribes from dealers to get bigger allocations and the dealers were paying for those by packing their new-car inventory with every accessory and mop-and-glow treatment they could think of. But I don't think the wood was a Honda accessory.

I recommend the book "Arrogance and Accords", which documents the whole sordid tale. Written by an insider who had a front row seat to the whole thing.

mjfloyd1

au1994 said:

Buckle your safety belts and put your tray tables in the upright and locked position...

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2001-honda-prelude-36/

Only one key fob. Must have bought it from a Kia dealer and financed through Kia finance 😂

explorerx4

@Michaell,
Thanks, just downloaded the book to kindle.