Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

au1994

$40k for a Bronco would be pretty reasonable but what’s the ADM going to be?

qbrozen

graphicguy said:

Since we seem to be on a kick on off road vehicles, when I was shopping I test drove a Bronco Sport. I actually liked it, quite a bit, except the one they had was a 3 cyl, which was a DOG. This was nearly 2 months ago and I had forgot I told the sales guy to give me a jingle when he got a 4 cyl turbo in stock.

He called yesterday and wanted to know if I wanted to order and put a refundable $100 down on the new Bronco. Not sure how he got the impression I wanted a Bronco, but I told him I had already purchased something. Out of curiosity, I asked when he expected the Broncos to hit the dealership, and what the price range would be for a 4WD V6 Turbo model would be. He said the “OUTER BANKS” model would be the one closest to that configuration (which was the model I wanted originally as the Bronco Sport). Price? Low $40s. I thought that would have cost a LOT more. Pleasantly surprised.

He expects orders placed now to be in stock before July 4th.

that is a little cheaper than I thought. $47k gets you the 2.7 4-door with the mid-level pack. But, then again, $47k and not even leather. Looks like the only way to even get leather is in the $63k first edition.

oldfarmer50

qbrozen said:

graphicguy said:

Since we seem to be on a kick on off road vehicles, when I was shopping I test drove a Bronco Sport. I actually liked it, quite a bit, except the one they had was a 3 cyl, which was a DOG. This was nearly 2 months ago and I had forgot I told the sales guy to give me a jingle when he got a 4 cyl turbo in stock.

He called yesterday and wanted to know if I wanted to order and put a refundable $100 down on the new Bronco. Not sure how he got the impression I wanted a Bronco, but I told him I had already purchased something. Out of curiosity, I asked when he expected the Broncos to hit the dealership, and what the price range would be for a 4WD V6 Turbo model would be. He said the “OUTER BANKS” model would be the one closest to that configuration (which was the model I wanted originally as the Bronco Sport). Price? Low $40s. I thought that would have cost a LOT more. Pleasantly surprised.

He expects orders placed now to be in stock before July 4th.

that is a little cheaper than I thought. $47k gets you the 2.7 4-door with the mid-level pack. But, then again, $47k and not even leather. Looks like the only way to even get leather is in the $63k first edition.

$63k for a vehicle like that, no matter what the options is insane. Even $40k would put me out. Then again every time I look at used car prices I curl up in a ball and weep.

henryn

The new Bronco just does not look like a $47k vehicle, at least not to my old eyes.

sda

Prices of vehicles in general are out of control. I am seeing 2 year old Hondas being priced nearly as much as a new one. The local VW dealer has an 18 VW Passat GT (VR-6) with 34k at $23K. New that car could have been purchased for around $25-26k on its MSRP of $29k. Nope.

benjaminh

Ford F-150 trucks without their chips are being stockpiled by the thousands. Once the chips come in, and these vehicles are finished and flood the market, probably prices will fall by a significant amount. But when will that be. Six months from now?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vN9ipkmVnsY

tifighter

I went and built a 2-dr Bronco on the website that I would be happy with. $45K. Right in between a Wrangler Sport with options and a base Rubicon. Pretty sneaky, Ford.

qbrozen

@oldfarmer50 and @henryn , the 4-dr Defender STARTS at $50k, similar idea and purpose but much uglier IMHO. The Bronco is cheap by comparison.

carnaught

graphicguy said:

28firefighter said:

In case anyone was curious about the saddle interior. Apparently of the 140 4xE orders at my dealer, only a handful were saddle.

I like any interior that isn’t black. As such, lovin’ yours!

To me the color is more of a beige than saddle which is more of a brown. Anyway, nice interior @28firefighter .

au1994

I’d pay in the $40’s for a Bronco or Jeep. The $63k mentioned above is nuts for a Bronco and I’ve seen Wranglers loaded up to that number. And more.

The higher end makes really seem to have climbed in relation to other makes and inflation in general. 4 Series BMW’s in the $60’s is steep but that’s what they are asking, Figure 10+% off that as the sell price.

sda

For vehicles that list over $40K, I am curious to know what percentage are leased. Unless there is a large down payment, the monthly obligation starts to approach a mortgage payment.

explorerx4

I had the money to buy my Explorer and did put down about 1/3 as a down payment.
The rest is financed @0% for 6 years.
I have the money I didn't put toward the Explorer in some investment accounts, nothing too crazy.
Hoping to pay off the loan early and keep keep most if not all the money I seeded into the accounts.

stickguy

Same here. Traded in the old car, for about 40% of cost of new (plus tax savings). Financed the rest for 5 years at .9% interest.

Michaell

qbrozen said:

@oldfarmer50 and @henryn , the 4-dr Defender STARTS at $50k, similar idea and purpose but much uglier IMHO. The Bronco is cheap by comparison.

I'll admit I like the Defender 90 (2-door), but when I spec one out it knocks on the door of $60K.

Again, glad I'm not in the market at the moment. Lots of whinging from the members in almost every lease thread.

breld

I like the look of the Defender too - seems like a better successor to the LR4/Discovery than the new Discovery.

kyfdx

benjaminh said:

Ford F-150 trucks without their chips are being stockpiled by the thousands. Once the chips come in, and these vehicles are finished and flood the market, probably prices will fall by a significant amount. But when will that be. Six months from now?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vN9ipkmVnsY

It turns out, those are F-250 trucks

28firefighter

Rubicon 4xE's I've seen as high as $69k. Which is ridiculous. I find the $55k MSRP of my truck absurd...

qbrozen

breld said:

I like the look of the Defender too - seems like a better successor to the LR4/Discovery than the new Discovery.

I thought it looked OK in pics, but saw one in the wild last week and found it pretty darned hideous. I can't pinpoint why. I think maybe it is the bizarre C pillar that just smacks you in the face in person.

Those rear wheel arch gap is pretty darned awful, too.

corvette

The Defender looks like a lifted Ford Flex in that photo, with taller doors somewhat obscured by the two-tone. The wheel arch gaps are pretty big, both front and rear. And those plain jane wheels aren't doing it any favors. I agree that the C-pillar is weird, although it would be easy to wrap it in black to provide a monochrome look.

carnaught

Sorry

henryn

qbrozen said:

@oldfarmer50 and @henryn , the 4-dr Defender STARTS at $50k, similar idea and purpose but much uglier IMHO. The Bronco is cheap by comparison.

I hear you, but they are never going to sell one to me at that price.

Over the last decade, I bought these new trucks. Not counting used trucks, and new and used cars.

2011 Silverado
2013 Silverado
2013 F150
2015 F150
2017 F150
2018 F150

In every case, I paid about $10k under the window sticker. Case in point, that last truck, the 2018 F150 had a window sticker of $44k (not counting dealer add ons), and I bought for $33k. I always buy towards the end of the model year, which helps. If and when a Bronco at $47k gets discounted to $36k or so, then I might be interested. Maybe.

corvette

henryn said:

In every case, I paid about $10k under the window sticker.

That's one of the reasons it's amazing Toyota trucks lease so well--they don't have that many incentives or discounts from sticker. Mine:
MSRP: $50,228
Adjusted cap cost: $45,761.57
Payment: $359 x 24 months

oldfarmer50

qbrozen said:

breld said:

I like the look of the Defender too - seems like a better successor to the LR4/Discovery than the new Discovery.

I thought it looked OK in pics, but saw one in the wild last week and found it pretty darned hideous. I can't pinpoint why. I think maybe it is the bizarre C pillar that just smacks you in the face in person.

Those rear wheel arch gap is pretty darned awful, too.

But what about reliability? Having trouble with your $2000 beater is annoying, having problems with your $40-60k new car is infuriating.

breld

Yes, whether it was an anomaly or not, coming back from our trip to Italy a few years back to find our Discovery dead in the parking garage was not a pleasant experience. Add to that the 3 hours it took to get roadside assistance to come jump the car...and then the service advisor at Land Rover acting like the whole thing wasn't a big deal...don't think we could pull the trigger on another Land Rover.

Too bad, cause I liked the vehicle a lot. Who knows, I may have kept if for many more months.

au1994

I see what you did there…

28firefighter

In other news, I have two other minor gripes:
(1) The uConnect is absolute dog shtuff....takes minutes to refresh to charging status, etc.
(2) There is a software update forthcoming to fix an issue where the backup camera lines disappear intermittently.

breld

Built myself a Grand Cherokee L on Jeep's website. Loaded Overland model with the Hemi.

Pricey for sure, but I find it more desirable in some ways compared to the MDX and GV80. MDX A-spec is about $8k cheaper, even the Type S will likely be a little cheaper than this Jeep as built. You can get a nice GV80 with the 3.5T engine for that price.

You could save $3,300 with the Pentastar V6, but as long as they're offering the Hemi as an option...

stickguy

That’s a big beast for a NA V6 to haul around.

sda

breld said:

Built myself a Grand Cherokee L on Jeep's website. Loaded Overland model with the Hemi.

Pricey for sure, but I find it more desirable in some ways compared to the MDX and GV80. MDX A-spec is about $8k cheaper, even the Type S will likely be a little cheaper than this Jeep as built. You can get a nice GV80 with the 3.5T engine for that price.

You could save $3,300 with the Pentastar V6, but as long as they're offering the Hemi as an option...

The Hemi is a $3300 option? I assume it is part of a bigger options package?

explorerx4

TFL Truck went through 3 of the 4 cylinder Defender models before giving up and getting the V6.
They wanted to test a cheap build, but that went out the door.

stickguy

Might not be. They charge a lot for that badge!

tifighter

I am okay with the looks of this one-

henryn

corvette said:

henryn said:

In every case, I paid about $10k under the window sticker.

That's one of the reasons it's amazing Toyota trucks lease so well--they don't have that many incentives or discounts from sticker. Mine:
MSRP: $50,228
Adjusted cap cost: $45,761.57
Payment: $359 x 24 months

I am guessing that must have an ungodly high residual value?

kyfdx

henryn said:

corvette said:

henryn said:

In every case, I paid about $10k under the window sticker.

That's one of the reasons it's amazing Toyota trucks lease so well--they don't have that many incentives or discounts from sticker. Mine:
MSRP: $50,228
Adjusted cap cost: $45,761.57
Payment: $359 x 24 months

I am guessing that must have an ungodly high residual value?

Tacoma
74% for 36/15 on the most popular trims

sda

kyfdx said:

henryn said:

corvette said:

henryn said:

In every case, I paid about $10k under the window sticker.

That's one of the reasons it's amazing Toyota trucks lease so well--they don't have that many incentives or discounts from sticker. Mine:
MSRP: $50,228
Adjusted cap cost: $45,761.57
Payment: $359 x 24 months

I am guessing that must have an ungodly high residual value?

Tacoma
74% for 36/15 on the most popular trims

Amazing.

xwesx

oldfarmer50 said:

Some of those modes are more for spinning the wheels to impress your friends rather to than improve your track times. On my muscle car there’s some kind of line lock mode where you can sit and destroy your rear tires for 15 seconds before the front brakes unlock and let you drive to the tire store. I never used it because dad stopped paying for my tires a long time ago.

Amen, brother!

qbrozen

tifighter said:

I am okay with the looks of this one-

If comparing 2-doors, the mid-range outer banks Bronco is only $41k. And I still prefer the looks over the Defender.

explorerx4

That Grand Cherokee L looks like a Durango with a Jeep nose.
Isn't that what is really is?
It's not a Wagoneer.

Michaell

tifighter said:

I am okay with the looks of this one-

That's my preferred color.

Michaell

Since we talk about our kids and their cars, thought I'd share this.

Learned that my stepdaughter wants an EV for her next vehicle. But, it can't "be ugly".

Hmm, what does that leave us with?

tjc78

@explorerx4 said:
That Grand Cherokee L looks like a Durango with a Jeep nose.
Isn't that what is really is?
It's not a Wagoneer.

@explorerx4 said:
That Grand Cherokee L looks like a Durango with a Jeep nose.
Isn't that what is really is?
It's not a Wagoneer.

From what I understand the new 2021 JGC L actually has roots in the Alfa Stelvio platform.

The previous generation was a shorter Durango.

tifighter

tifighter said:

I went and built a 2-dr Bronco on the website that I would be happy with. $45K. Right in between a Wrangler Sport with options and a base Rubicon. Pretty sneaky, Ford.

qbrozen said:

If comparing 2-doors, the mid-range outer banks Bronco is only $41k. And I still prefer the looks over the Defender.

Basically in line with what I said earlier. Seems like there is a lot of room in this market for additional players. They all want those Jeep margins. And LR has always made funky looking products - you and breld know that better than anyone.

explorerx4

@stickguy,
The Durango is a stretched version of the G-C and Merc ML or GLE.

xwesx

qbrozen said:

graphicguy said:

Since we seem to be on a kick on off road vehicles, when I was shopping I test drove a Bronco Sport. I actually liked it, quite a bit, except the one they had was a 3 cyl, which was a DOG. This was nearly 2 months ago and I had forgot I told the sales guy to give me a jingle when he got a 4 cyl turbo in stock.

He called yesterday and wanted to know if I wanted to order and put a refundable $100 down on the new Bronco. Not sure how he got the impression I wanted a Bronco, but I told him I had already purchased something. Out of curiosity, I asked when he expected the Broncos to hit the dealership, and what the price range would be for a 4WD V6 Turbo model would be. He said the “OUTER BANKS” model would be the one closest to that configuration (which was the model I wanted originally as the Bronco Sport). Price? Low $40s. I thought that would have cost a LOT more. Pleasantly surprised.

He expects orders placed now to be in stock before July 4th.

that is a little cheaper than I thought. $47k gets you the 2.7 4-door with the mid-level pack. But, then again, $47k and not even leather. Looks like the only way to even get leather is in the $63k first edition.

For that sort of price, leather isn't a big deal. Buy it with the other equipment you want, then just take it to an upholstery place and have them sort out the leather. It will probably set you back maybe $2-3K.

roadburner

kyfdx said:

Had a '76 CJ-5 from '80-'82. Loved it.. 258 ci straight six with a 3-speed.

I love my TJ Sahara- I've owned it since 2002. The only thing I'd replace it with is another 2 door Wrangler.

andres3

qbrozen said:

Something vaguely interesting on the Camaro. Through the interwebs, I discovered “competition mode,” launch control, and performance timer. From a stop, no special mode selected, just one foot, off the brake and on the gas. 0-60 in 4.3. Enabled competition mode and used launch control...4.4. Go figure.

But either one is fairly impressive on all-season tires on crappy street pavement.

So I'm curious if the times to 60 are as accurate as notorious "gas economy" calculators. Of course, results vary. I wouldn't mind a timer of any reasonable accuracy. I have to rely on the 1/8th mile times I've run which puts me at about 7.9 at about 89 MPH.

andres3

xwesx said:

oldfarmer50 said:

Some of those modes are more for spinning the wheels to impress your friends rather to than improve your track times. On my muscle car there’s some kind of line lock mode where you can sit and destroy your rear tires for 15 seconds before the front brakes unlock and let you drive to the tire store. I never used it because dad stopped paying for my tires a long time ago.

Amen, brother!

When it's time to get new tires, why not let the old ones go out with a bang of last minute wear?

andres3

Is their a chronic tire buyers anonymous on here? If so, I need to be on it.
SCORED a clearance deal on the last 4 of 5 available Bridgestone RE-71R 200 treadwear performance summer tires from Tirerack today!!!! What a deal; too good to pass up. Corded one of the soft rubber front Yokohama A052's already. They make it at 255 now, which I think will help as 245 is a bit undersized for the car, and the extra section width may just help with that outside shoulder wear and give it a stiffer sidewall to boot for less roll. However, as great as the tire is, and I wanted to try it at 255, it's not $500 better for the set.
I think I'm going to go with Michelin PS A/S 4's soon for the S4. Costco's having a good deal, but there's a shortage in supply.

qbrozen

@andres3 said:
So I'm curious if the times to 60 are as accurate as notorious "gas economy" calculators. Of course, results vary. I wouldn't mind a timer of any reasonable accuracy. I have to rely on the 1/8th mile times I've run which puts me at about 7.9 at about 89 MPH.

I figure they probably left off the hundredths for that reason. I mean, it looks like 1/10 of a second difference but it could very well be 1/100th. I think timers are far less likely to have error but certainly the speedometer could. Then again, how much difference would 59 or 61 vs 60 really make? I do have an OBD unit I could plug in for comparison, but I really don’t care enough to bother. At least having the built in timer allows some sort of comparison for just my car to itself for launch techniques, conditions, etc.

sda

andres3 said:

Is their a chronic tire buyers anonymous on here? If so, I need to be on it.
SCORED a clearance deal on the last 4 of 5 available Bridgestone RE-71R 200 treadwear performance summer tires from Tirerack today!!!! What a deal; too good to pass up. Corded one of the soft rubber front Yokohama A052's already. They make it at 255 now, which I think will help as 245 is a bit undersized for the car, and the extra section width may just help with that outside shoulder wear and give it a stiffer sidewall to boot for less roll. However, as great as the tire is, and I wanted to try it at 255, it's not $500 better for the set.
I think I'm going to go with Michelin PS A/S 4's soon for the S4. Costco's having a good deal, but there's a shortage in supply.

Are the Bridgestones for the TT?