Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

kyfdx

Michaell said:

Since we talk about our kids and their cars, thought I'd share this.

Learned that my stepdaughter wants an EV for her next vehicle. But, it can't "be ugly".

Hmm, what does that leave us with?

Taycan

stickguy

The new Hyundai Ioniq5. Or whatever they call it. New bolt.

nyccarguy

kyfdx said:

Michaell said:

Since we talk about our kids and their cars, thought I'd share this.

Learned that my stepdaughter wants an EV for her next vehicle. But, it can't "be ugly".

Hmm, what does that leave us with?

Taycan

One of the stipulations is that it can't be "ugly." I saw one of those Taycans in a baby blue color the other day. That car fell off the ugly tree and hit every branch on the way down.

kyfdx

nyccarguy said:

kyfdx said:

Michaell said:

Since we talk about our kids and their cars, thought I'd share this.

Learned that my stepdaughter wants an EV for her next vehicle. But, it can't "be ugly".

Hmm, what does that leave us with?

Taycan

One of the stipulations is that it can't be "ugly." I saw one of those Taycans in a baby blue color the other day. That car fell off the ugly tree and hit every branch on the way down.

We'll just have to agree that you are blind..

qbrozen

nyccarguy said:

kyfdx said:

Michaell said:

Since we talk about our kids and their cars, thought I'd share this.

Learned that my stepdaughter wants an EV for her next vehicle. But, it can't "be ugly".

Hmm, what does that leave us with?

Taycan

One of the stipulations is that it can't be "ugly." I saw one of those Taycans in a baby blue color the other day. That car fell off the ugly tree and hit every branch on the way down.

I agree with the Ioniq. Not ugly. Kona EV isn't terrible, either, if that's her kind of thing. Ya didn't give us a lot to work with here. Prius Prime? I think that's close to the ugliest thing on the road but apparently some people like it.

graphicguy

Michaell said:

Since we talk about our kids and their cars, thought I'd share this.

Learned that my stepdaughter wants an EV for her next vehicle. But, it can't "be ugly".

Hmm, what does that leave us with?

Didn’t SMART make a cute EV for a bit?

graphicguy

Haven’t been in a Tahoe, Explorer, Jeep, 4 Runner, etc need for quite some time. But, if I lived in the northern nether regions, or had “stuff” I had to haul through all sorts of weather, or was an off road fanatic, I’d give the Bronco and Bronco Sport another serious look.

I think low-mid $40s for such capability isn’t that bad. At least from the YT videos I’ve seen, both seem up to the task.

roadburner

Get this; I received an email from the manager of the Cadillac dealer that has the 2021 M2. Care to guess what the M2 was traded for?
A Cadillac Escalade. Really.
I could completely understand trading for one of the V-Series, but going from a hard-edged track rat to the Pimp Daddy Express?
The guy was definitely a wearer...

Michaell

All good suggestions, but y'all are missing the obvious answer here.

MINI makes an EV.

Yeah, it's only the 2-door body style, and yeah, the range is pretty pathetic (117 miles?), but, at the moment, I suspect that would be the only one she'd be interested in.

We could sell the house and buy a Taycan with the profits, I suppose.

All academic at the moment, as I just put new tires onto the MINI on Monday. Same Pirelli P7 run-flats.

stickguy

They still make the Golf EV?

Michaell

stickguy said:

They still make the Golf EV?

No, I think that's been supplanted by the ID.4, now.

henryn

roadburner said:

Get this; I received an email from the manager of the Cadillac dealer that has the 2021 M2. Care to guess what the M2 was traded for?
A Cadillac Escalade. Really.
I could completely understand trading for one of the V-Series, but I can't see going from a hard-edged track rat to the Pimp Daddy Express?
The guy is definitely a wearer...

People do that sort of thing all the time, going from one extreme of the automotive experience to the exact opposite. You must remember that people aren't just one thing, they are multi-faceted.

And we are talking about a 2021 M2 with extremely low mileage. Which means that someone bought it, and almost immediately regretted the decision. Not everyone is going to like the same car that you like.

I remember a few years back when I was shopping for a new truck at the Chevrolet dealership. The saleslady I was talking with told me that she had seen a recent rash of nearly new Camaros being traded back in for pickups. Seems the older gentlemen had traded in their pickups or SUVs for a sporty Camaro and then discovered they really didn't like the Camaro, so traded back.

A Camaro is sexy looking, and sporty, but dealing with that day in and day out might just prove to be a little tiring to most of us. And I suspect the same is true for your M2. And perhaps the reason that new Camaro is not the daily driver for @qbrozen. And the Mustang GT is not the daily driver for @oldfarmer50.

roadburner

@henryn said:
People do that sort of thing all the time, going from one extreme of the automotive experience to the exact opposite. You must remember that people aren't just one thing, they are multi-faceted.

And we are talking about a 2021 M2 with extremely low mileage. Which means that someone bought it, and almost immediately regretted the decision. Not everyone is going to like the same car that you like.

I remember a few years back when I was shopping for a new truck at the Chevrolet dealership. The saleslady I was talking with told me that she had seen a recent rash of nearly new Camaros being traded back in for pickups. Seems the older gentlemen had traded in their pickups or SUVs for a sporty Camaro and then discovered they really didn't like the Camaro, so traded back.

A Camaro is sexy looking, and sporty, but dealing with that day in and day out might just prove to be a little tiring to most of us. And I suspect the same is true for your M2. And perhaps the reason that new Camaro is not the daily driver for @qbrozen. And the Mustang GT is not the daily driver for @oldfarmer50.

The thing is, he was an absolute fool to not realize what he was buying. Like the imbeciles who buy Wranglers and then complain about fuel economy, ride/handling and cabin noise.
I still maintain he was a idiot who wears cars as opposed to driving them.

nyccarguy

henryn said:

roadburner said:

Get this; I received an email from the manager of the Cadillac dealer that has the 2021 M2. Care to guess what the M2 was traded for?
A Cadillac Escalade. Really.
I could completely understand trading for one of the V-Series, but I can't see going from a hard-edged track rat to the Pimp Daddy Express?
The guy is definitely a wearer...

People do that sort of thing all the time, going from one extreme of the automotive experience to the exact opposite.

Exactly. My best friend recently traded in his 2018 Raptor (that he bought 8 whole months ago) for an L Certified 2017 Lexus LX 570.

28firefighter

I suspect it was more like someone who wanted a sporty car and over-indexed (or potentially got talked into) getting the top of the top without understanding what it meant, when in reality they probably would have been happier with an M240.

roadburner

I suspect the dimwit was the son of a guy a friend encountered in the late ‘80s. He was checking out a 911 at a Porsche dealer. A guy pulled up in an E30 M3. My friend asked how he liked it and the bozo replied, “I guess it’s okay; don’t know what the ///M stands for- more power, maybe?”

breld

M2 to Escalade...


(I myself have been guilty of this)

stickguy

28firefighter said:

I suspect it was more like someone who wanted a sporty car and over-indexed (or potentially got talked into) getting the top of the top without understanding what it meant, when in reality they probably would have been happier with an M240.

Or forgot to clear it with “the boss”. Maybe the lightbulb went on the first time he had to take 4 kids and the dog someplace. Lots of reason someone makes an impulse buy, just sometimes it doesn’t work out after you are living with it. Also quite possible he loved the car too.

qbrozen

Maybe he got more than he paid for it.
If someone ponies up for my ‘maro, it could quite possibly be replaced with a Wrangler ... until I get profit on that, too. ;b

roadburner

I can see a logic in breld and qbrozen’s flips- even nyccarguy’s friend’s choice(if I squint a bit)- but going from an M2C to an Escalade is beyond my comprehension. It’s like going from a Speed Triple to a Gold Wing three wheel conversion.
Or in feminine terms, going from Scarlett Johansson to Rosie O'Donnell...

sda

Or in feminine terms, going from Scarlett Johansson to Rosie O'Donnell...
Just NO

nyccarguy

roadburner said:

I can see a logic in breld and qbrozen’s flips- even nyccarguy’s friend’s choice(if I squint a bit)- but going from an M2C to an Escalade is beyond my comprehension. It’s like going from a Speed Triple to a Gold Wing three wheel conversion.

Or in feminine terms, going from Scarlett Johansson to Rosie O'Donnell...

So my friend bought the Raptor & LOVED it. It had certain quirks (excessive girth & very tall) that he knew about going in. In 8 - 10ish months he put over 20,000 miles on it. All the tech worked flawless & it needed nothing but oil changes as far as maintenance goes (the selling dealer had new brakes & tires put on before he bought it). He started hearing a noise almost like something was rattling around in the engine compartment. He brought it to the dealer who diagnosed it as having faulty cam phasers. This is a known issue with the 3.5L Ecoboost motors. The dealer had the car for over a month, waiting for parts. He had to do a lot of calling and following up to get them to give him a loaner car, then to get his Raptor fixed. He knows it was a "major surgery" repair and isn't confident that it was performed properly. He started looking at Land Cruisers and then realized he could get the mechanically identical Lexus LX570 with less miles for quite a bit cheaper. It also helped that he was able to trade in his Raptor to the Lexus dealer for $5,000 more than he bought it for.

henryn

nyccarguy said:

roadburner said:

I can see a logic in breld and qbrozen’s flips- even nyccarguy’s friend’s choice(if I squint a bit)- but going from an M2C to an Escalade is beyond my comprehension. It’s like going from a Speed Triple to a Gold Wing three wheel conversion.

Or in feminine terms, going from Scarlett Johansson to Rosie O'Donnell...

So my friend bought the Raptor & LOVED it. It had certain quirks (excessive girth & very tall) that he knew about going in. In 8 - 10ish months he put over 20,000 miles on it. All the tech worked flawless & it needed nothing but oil changes as far as maintenance goes (the selling dealer had new brakes & tires put on before he bought it). He started hearing a noise almost like something was rattling around in the engine compartment. He brought it to the dealer who diagnosed it as having faulty cam phasers. This is a known issue with the 3.5L Ecoboost motors. The dealer had the car for over a month, waiting for parts. He had to do a lot of calling and following up to get them to give him a loaner car, then to get his Raptor fixed. He knows it was a "major surgery" repair and isn't confident that it was performed properly. He started looking at Land Cruisers and then realized he could get the mechanically identical Lexus LX570 with less miles for quite a bit cheaper. It also helped that he was able to trade in his Raptor to the Lexus dealer for $5,000 more than he bought it for.

That tops my story by $500. (My 2018 F150 XLT Screw fetched $4.5k more than I paid for it.)

Then again, mine was a cash deal. When you're trading in, it's much harder to know what they're really giving you for your trade. At any rate, he made out like a bandit.

And I might add while some ecoboost engines have had problems, there are many of them out there with over 200k miles still going strong.

oldfarmer50

roadburner said:

Get this; I received an email from the manager of the Cadillac dealer that has the 2021 M2. Care to guess what the M2 was traded for?
A Cadillac Escalade. Really.
I could completely understand trading for one of the V-Series, but going from a hard-edged track rat to the Pimp Daddy Express?
The guy was definitely a wearer...

Either that or he broke up with his young girlfriend and no longer had to look cool.

oldfarmer50

henryn said:

roadburner said:

Get this; I received an email from the manager of the Cadillac dealer that has the 2021 M2. Care to guess what the M2 was traded for?
A Cadillac Escalade. Really.
I could completely understand trading for one of the V-Series, but I can't see going from a hard-edged track rat to the Pimp Daddy Express?
The guy is definitely a wearer...

People do that sort of thing all the time, going from one extreme of the automotive experience to the exact opposite. You must remember that people aren't just one thing, they are multi-faceted.

And we are talking about a 2021 M2 with extremely low mileage. Which means that someone bought it, and almost immediately regretted the decision. Not everyone is going to like the same car that you like.

I remember a few years back when I was shopping for a new truck at the Chevrolet dealership. The saleslady I was talking with told me that she had seen a recent rash of nearly new Camaros being traded back in for pickups. Seems the older gentlemen had traded in their pickups or SUVs for a sporty Camaro and then discovered they really didn't like the Camaro, so traded back.

A Camaro is sexy looking, and sporty, but dealing with that day in and day out might just prove to be a little tiring to most of us. And I suspect the same is true for your M2. And perhaps the reason that new Camaro is not the daily driver for @qbrozen. And the Mustang GT is not the daily driver for @oldfarmer50.

None of my cars are a daily driver. I rotate between them as my mood changes. One for thrills, one for seeing the scenery, one for getting groceries and one for hauling junk.

nyccarguy

henryn said:

nyccarguy said:

roadburner said:

I can see a logic in breld and qbrozen’s flips- even nyccarguy’s friend’s choice(if I squint a bit)- but going from an M2C to an Escalade is beyond my comprehension. It’s like going from a Speed Triple to a Gold Wing three wheel conversion.

Or in feminine terms, going from Scarlett Johansson to Rosie O'Donnell...

So my friend bought the Raptor & LOVED it. It had certain quirks (excessive girth & very tall) that he knew about going in. In 8 - 10ish months he put over 20,000 miles on it. All the tech worked flawless & it needed nothing but oil changes as far as maintenance goes (the selling dealer had new brakes & tires put on before he bought it). He started hearing a noise almost like something was rattling around in the engine compartment. He brought it to the dealer who diagnosed it as having faulty cam phasers. This is a known issue with the 3.5L Ecoboost motors. The dealer had the car for over a month, waiting for parts. He had to do a lot of calling and following up to get them to give him a loaner car, then to get his Raptor fixed. He knows it was a "major surgery" repair and isn't confident that it was performed properly. He started looking at Land Cruisers and then realized he could get the mechanically identical Lexus LX570 with less miles for quite a bit cheaper. It also helped that he was able to trade in his Raptor to the Lexus dealer for $5,000 more than he bought it for.

That tops my story by $500. (My 2018 F150 XLT Screw fetched $4.5k more than I paid for it.)

Then again, mine was a cash deal. When you're trading in, it's much harder to know what they're really giving you for your trade. At any rate, he made out like a bandit.

And I might add while some ecoboost engines have had problems, there are many of them out there with over 200k miles still going strong.

The price of the L Certified LX570 was "set in stone," If he didn't buy it, they planned on significantly raising the price by about $4,500 due to "market conditions." He said it was great doing business with the Lexus dealer. Much different than his previous dealings with GM (leased a 1500 Sierra Denali) and Toyota (Purchased the Raptor). He said they actually treated him like he was buying a $60,000 plus automobile.

explorerx4

People don't change the oil then have problems with cam phasers and DOD engines.

greg128

My son totaled his 2019 Equinox Premier. He was going to work and reached down to pick up something that fell, heard the collision warning alarm, looked up to see a parked car, yanked the steering wheel to the left, then hit the car and flipped. It seems it is a total loss but luckily he is relatively uninjured (Thank God for airbags). He told me he is looking at a new Camry Hybrid XLE but is having trouble finding one with the options he wants. He is looking at a fully loaded one with a MSRP north of $37k.

I told him it is a solid choice given Toyota reliability and their solid experience with hybrid cars. I think he will be very lucky to get it maybe $1000 -$2000 less than sticker with incentives. Drawbacks which he is not too concerned with is the anemic 163 lb. ft of torque (208 HP) and the ugly front end, but being he has a long drive to work he should like the 50+ MPG being reported.


Being he will be buying this I will be sure to tell him to disregard the free Toyota maintenance plan which provides free 10,000 mile oil changes. That sounds nuts to me and will recommend one every 5,000 miles.

ab348

roadburner said:

Get this; I received an email from the manager of the Cadillac dealer that has the 2021 M2. Care to guess what the M2 was traded for?
A Cadillac Escalade. Really.
I could completely understand trading for one of the V-Series, but going from a hard-edged track rat to the Pimp Daddy Express?
The guy was definitely a wearer...

Well, as we have seen, there are any number of reasons. Maybe he realized he was being branded with the stereotypical BMW driver image and didn't think of himself that way, who knows.

stickguy

Maybe he was old school, and didn’t like having a car without turn signals?

roadburner

I’m terrified of reaching my 80s; then I’ll finally have to decide-
Cadillac or Mercedes?

sda

roadburner said:

I’m terrified of reaching my 80s; then I’ll finally have to decide-

Cadillac or Mercedes?

I doubt that will happen. You will be driving your 318ti with a grin on your face.

xwesx

greg128 said:

My son totaled his 2019 Equinox Premier. He was going to work and reached down to pick up something that fell, heard the collision warning alarm, looked up to see a parked car, yanked the steering wheel to the left, then hit the car and flipped. It seems it is a total loss but luckily he is relatively uninjured (Thank God for airbags). He told me he is looking at a new Camry Hybrid XLE but is having trouble finding one with the options he wants. He is looking at a fully loaded one with a MSRP north of $37k.

I told him it is a solid choice given Toyota reliability and their solid experience with hybrid cars. I think he will be very lucky to get it maybe $1000 -$2000 less than sticker with incentives. Drawbacks which he is not too concerned with is the anemic 163 lb. ft of torque (208 HP) and the ugly front end, but being he has a long drive to work he should like the 50+ MPG being reported.


Being he will be buying this I will be sure to tell him to disregard the free Toyota maintenance plan which provides free 10,000 mile oil changes. That sounds nuts to me and will recommend one every 5,000 miles.

At least he came out of it well enough! That sounds like a fairly major crash, and a good reminder that it only takes a moment of inattentiveness...

In the current market, buying new and getting any discount at all sounds a whole lot better than anything used! As for OCI (oil change interval), there's nothing wrong with 10,000 miles at all. It all comes down to the oil and the engine. If either of you are concerned about it, I recommend a used oil analysis with TBN (total base number) for the first couple of oil changes... and do the first one, at least, at the manufacturer-recommended interval. That should set your minds at ease about how well or poorly the oil is performing over the selected intervals, and you can adjust the OCI from there.

xwesx

roadburner said:

I’m terrified of reaching my 80s; then I’ll finally have to decide-

Cadillac or Mercedes?

No way. You'll never do it unless they come out with an irresistible sport model that blows away the competition!

corvette

greg128 said:

My son totaled his 2019 Equinox Premier. ... It seems it is a total loss but luckily he is relatively uninjured (Thank God for airbags). He told me he is looking at a new Camry Hybrid XLE but is having trouble finding one with the options he wants. He is looking at a fully loaded one with a MSRP north of $37k.

Glad to hear your son is mostly okay!

I didn't realize you could equip a Camry Hybrid to that level ($37k). Has he also considered the Accord Hybrid, or whatever the equivalent Hyundai/Kia is? These cars seem like better values in the high-$20s to $30k range, at least to me. I wouldn't sweat the 10k oil change interval, even if he plans to own it for a long time. With it being a hybrid, the engine is going to be shut down (and not wearing) a lot of the time a conventional car's engine would still be ticking.

fintail

Oh, most 7ers and even many 5ers made over the past 10-15 years are just as grandfatherly as anything with a hood ornament

roadburner said:

I’m terrified of reaching my 80s; then I’ll finally have to decide-

Cadillac or Mercedes?

tifighter

Where's the popcorn emoji?

ab348

roadburner said:

I’m terrified of reaching my 80s; then I’ll finally have to decide-

Cadillac or Mercedes?

You learn something new every day. I had no idea porcupines lose their quills when they become elderly.

greg128

xwesx said:

greg128 said:

My son totaled his 2019 Equinox Premier. He was going to work and reached down to pick up something that fell, heard the collision warning alarm, looked up to see a parked car, yanked the steering wheel to the left, then hit the car and flipped. It seems it is a total loss but luckily he is relatively uninjured (Thank God for airbags). He told me he is looking at a new Camry Hybrid XLE but is having trouble finding one with the options he wants. He is looking at a fully loaded one with a MSRP north of $37k.

I told him it is a solid choice given Toyota reliability and their solid experience with hybrid cars. I think he will be very lucky to get it maybe $1000 -$2000 less than sticker with incentives. Drawbacks which he is not too concerned with is the anemic 163 lb. ft of torque (208 HP) and the ugly front end, but being he has a long drive to work he should like the 50+ MPG being reported.


Being he will be buying this I will be sure to tell him to disregard the free Toyota maintenance plan which provides free 10,000 mile oil changes. That sounds nuts to me and will recommend one every 5,000 miles.

At least he came out of it well enough! That sounds like a fairly major crash, and a good reminder that it only takes a moment of inattentiveness...

In the current market, buying new and getting any discount at all sounds a whole lot better than anything used! As for OCI (oil change interval), there's nothing wrong with 10,000 miles at all. It all comes down to the oil and the engine. If either of you are concerned about it, I recommend a used oil analysis with TBN (total base number) for the first couple of oil changes... and do the first one, at least, at the manufacturer-recommended interval. That should set your minds at ease about how well or poorly the oil is performing over the selected intervals, and you can adjust the OCI from there.

Yes it was a bad wreck.
To me having the extra oil changes every 5k miles is cheap insurance against any engine problems in the future. Also are those filters rated for 10k miles? Ace mechanic Ron Ananian the car doctor doesn't think so.

Honda Hybrid Tech is way behind Toyota. I have read about battery problems with some of theirs. I would not trust a Hyundai-Kia product at all. Their 10yr warranty (only for the first owner) lures a lot of buyers but there are too many documented engine and other failures out there. Probably OK to lease.

xwesx

Ouch! Yeah, that's a rough one! Very glad he managed to walk away from that. I imagine the airbags actually helped quite a bit in protecting him, even though there wasn't a severe impact (like with another vehicle).

henryn

greg128 said:

Yes it was a bad wreck.
To me having the extra oil changes every 5k miles is cheap insurance against any engine problems in the future. Also are those filters rated for 10k miles? Ace mechanic Ron Ananian the car doctor doesn't think so.

Honda Hybrid Tech is way behind Toyota. I have read about battery problems with some of theirs. I would not trust a Hyundai-Kia product at all. Their 10yr warranty (only for the first owner) lures a lot of buyers but there are too many documented engine and other failures out there. Probably OK to lease.

If changing the oil every 5,000 miles makes you feel better or safer, then by all means go for it. But personally I don't think the manufacturers (Toyota, Honda, etc) would recommend it (10,000 mile oil changes) if they didn't feel safe doing so. And if they recommend it, and back that with their warranty, using their oil filters, then I feel fairly sure the oil filter will last the recommended interval.

I wouldn't necessarily trust the no-name filter used by a quick change oil stop, or even a Fram, but a high quality OEM (AC-Delco, Motorcraft, etc) or an extra expensive aftermarket oil filter (K&N, Mobil 1, etc), then yes, I would feel quite confident.

Your money, your car (or your son's in this case), so your decision.

roadburner

fintail said:

Oh, most 7ers and even many 5ers made over the past 10-15 years are just as grandfatherly as anything with a hood ornament

roadburner said:

I’m terrified of reaching my 80s; then I’ll finally have to decide-

Cadillac or Mercedes?

You'll get no argument from me; after the E32 the only 7ers I like come from Alpina. Ditto for post E60 5 Series cars- M5 or nothing,
I drove an F10 at the introduction and after less than a block all I could think of was, "Old man's car!"

roadburner

greg128 said:

xwesx said:

greg128 said:

My son totaled his 2019 Equinox Premier. He was going to work and reached down to pick up something that fell, heard the collision warning alarm, looked up to see a parked car, yanked the steering wheel to the left, then hit the car and flipped. It seems it is a total loss but luckily he is relatively uninjured (Thank God for airbags). He told me he is looking at a new Camry Hybrid XLE but is having trouble finding one with the options he wants. He is looking at a fully loaded one with a MSRP north of $37k.

I told him it is a solid choice given Toyota reliability and their solid experience with hybrid cars. I think he will be very lucky to get it maybe $1000 -$2000 less than sticker with incentives. Drawbacks which he is not too concerned with is the anemic 163 lb. ft of torque (208 HP) and the ugly front end, but being he has a long drive to work he should like the 50+ MPG being reported.


Being he will be buying this I will be sure to tell him to disregard the free Toyota maintenance plan which provides free 10,000 mile oil changes. That sounds nuts to me and will recommend one every 5,000 miles.

At least he came out of it well enough! That sounds like a fairly major crash, and a good reminder that it only takes a moment of inattentiveness...

In the current market, buying new and getting any discount at all sounds a whole lot better than anything used! As for OCI (oil change interval), there's nothing wrong with 10,000 miles at all. It all comes down to the oil and the engine. If either of you are concerned about it, I recommend a used oil analysis with TBN (total base number) for the first couple of oil changes... and do the first one, at least, at the manufacturer-recommended interval. That should set your minds at ease about how well or poorly the oil is performing over the selected intervals, and you can adjust the OCI from there.

Yes it was a bad wreck.
To me having the extra oil changes every 5k miles is cheap insurance against any engine problems in the future. Also are those filters rated for 10k miles? Ace mechanic Ron Ananian the car doctor doesn't think so.

Honda Hybrid Tech is way behind Toyota. I have read about battery problems with some of theirs. I would not trust a Hyundai-Kia product at all. Their 10yr warranty (only for the first owner) lures a lot of buyers but there are too many documented engine and other failures out there. Probably OK to lease.

I'm glad he's okay, but at least he totaled it- no screwing around with a body shop and a rental.

nyccarguy

@greg128

I’m glad your son is ok.

nyccarguy

@explorerx4 said:
People don't change the oil then have problems with cam phasers and DOD engines.

He bought the truck used with 21,000 miles on it. No idea what the previous owner did or didn’t do to it. The dealer did say the PO has quite a few cars. He traded in the Raptor (literally dropped it off) and bought a TRD Pro Sequoia.

ab348

Nasty crash, hope your son is OK. I think that shows that even the typical CUV/smaller SUV is more prone to rollover in such instances. I see pictures of crashes locally on a few different social media traffic accounts and if there is a new member of the upside-down club shown it is almost always a vehicle like that. Just a few inches seems to make a difference.

breld

@greg128 - I'll echo others...very happy your son was okay. That's a scary thing.

breld

Speaking of Camrys, @michaell shared with @jpp75 and I yesterday about being behind a Camry TRD with a pretty obnoxious spoiler. That prompted me to do a little research on Camry models...so yes, they can indeed get into the upper $30k's.

The garish TRD model aside, the current Camry is actually quite handsome, and I'll give Toyota kudos for maintaining the good ol' V6 as an option. Is there any other family sedan available with one anymore?

graphicguy

@greg128 ...so sorry your son was in that accident. So glad he's OK!

How about an Avalon Hybrid instead?
https://www.performancetoyotastore.com/inventory/new-2021-toyota-avalon-hybrid-hybrid-xle-fwd-4-4t1aa1ab4mu006546

The issue with Hyundai/KIA, in my experience isn't their vehicles, which generally are quite good. But, their dealership network and the inability to take care of any warranty work with efficiency and even a modicum of customer service. I get the feeling Hyundai/Kia corporate is ambivalent about service after the sale, and as such, probably doesn't reward good dealers all that much for taking care of the customers once the wheels go over the driveway curb.

nyccarguy

breld said:

Speaking of Camrys, @michaell shared with @jpp75 and I yesterday about being behind a Camry TRD with a pretty obnoxious spoiler. That prompted me to do a little research on Camry models...so yes, they can indeed get into the upper $30k's.

The garish TRD model aside, the current Camry is actually quite handsome, and I'll give Toyota kudos for maintaining the good ol' V6 as an option. Is there any other family sedan available with one anymore?

Obnoxious is a good way to describe the spoiler on the TRD Camry. I think it is cool that Toyota offers a V6 with Sport Tuned Suspension & some other performance goodies from the factory on the Camry.

The Camry isn't a bad car at all. Especially when you consider the German sedans have become watered down, expensive, and not all that exclusive. The Camry (with Gas engines) gives you a crisp shifting 6 Speed Automatic (as opposed to a CVT in its competition), offers front or all wheel drive, and gives you a Hybrid option as well. It is handsome, has a nicely finished interior with plenty of soft touch materials (in the front anyway). and a compliant ride that borders on sporty. It obviously isn't the ///M340i with a 6-Speed Stick that many of us here covet. Besides faster acceleration, a rear wheel drive platform (which again our small enthusiast community prefers), & excellent brakes, is a "regular" 330xi (or C300) that the dealers stock truly worth the price premium? Think of the traffic and road conditions that you drive on a daily basis. I know @andres3 has the option to detour through some canyons & @roadburner can take some country back roads & byways.