Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

tjc78

What’s funny is I know a few Wrangler owners who all “love them”… but then you hear them complaining about how hot/cold they are with the convertible roof, the rough ride, how noisy they are, and that it’s cool to take the doors off but too much work.

I think they have a great look and are great vehicles, but even on a stupid cheap lease I know it wouldn’t be the vehicle for me.

stickguy

If I got one (or a bronco) it would be the hardtop with removable panels. And the Ford, actually has them over back seat too. Really give that convertible feel!

kyfdx

tjc78 said:

What’s funny is I know a few Wrangler owners who all “love them”… but then you hear them complaining about how hot/cold they are with the convertible roof, the rough ride, how noisy they are, and that it’s cool to take the doors off but too much work.

I think they have a great look and are great vehicles, but even on a stupid cheap lease I know it wouldn’t be the vehicle for me.

I think they get compared to "regular" SUVs (Grand Cherokee, Pilot, etc), and they are most definitely not that. Even the Unlimited is still a Wrangler.

au1994

kyfdx said:

tjc78 said:

What’s funny is I know a few Wrangler owners who all “love them”… but then you hear them complaining about how hot/cold they are with the convertible roof, the rough ride, how noisy they are, and that it’s cool to take the doors off but too much work.

I think they have a great look and are great vehicles, but even on a stupid cheap lease I know it wouldn’t be the vehicle for me.

I think they get compared to "regular" SUVs (Grand Cherokee, Pilot, etc), and they are most definitely not that. Even the Unlimited is still a Wrangler.

No, they are not that at all. Just be informed like any other major purchase. All of those things are true compared to a “regular” SUV but each generation of Wrangler has become more and more refined. Ironically, that’s something the hard core Jeep crew laments.

Currently doing the dance on a Granite Crystal Sahara 4xe.

28firefighter

I’ve never been a trendsetter before!

nyccarguy

tjc78 said:

What’s funny is I know a few Wrangler owners who all “love them”… but then you hear them complaining about how hot/cold they are with the convertible roof, the rough ride, how noisy they are, and that it’s cool to take the doors off but too much work.

I think they have a great look and are great vehicles, but even on a stupid cheap lease I know it wouldn’t be the vehicle for me.

I've mentioned this before, but my best friend has a 2017 JK 2 Door Rubicon Hard Rock w/ a 6 Speed Manual & a Soft Top. He bought it way below market value with low miles from a friend of ours about 2 years ago. He loves it for what it is. It is an extra car that he drives when he wants to on warm and hot spring/summer/fall days with the top flipped back and the back window out.

nyccarguy

GRRRRRRRRRRR

https://carsandbids.com/auctions/rx5PvqO6/1999-honda-prelude-type-sh

roadburner

@tjc78 said:
What’s funny is I know a few Wrangler owners who all “love them”… but then you hear them complaining about how hot/cold they are with the convertible roof, the rough ride, how noisy they are, and that it’s cool to take the doors off but too much work.

I think they have a great look and are great vehicles, but even on a stupid cheap lease I know it wouldn’t be the vehicle for me.

On my TJ the heater and A/C both work great. The ride doesn’t bother us in the slightest. Yes, it’s noisy above 50 mph, but I knew that going in. Removing the doors? It’s never something I really wanted to do.
My wife almost bought a two door JK instead of her X1, so I think we would be more than happy with a 4xe. I’ll be the first to admit that Wranglers aren’t a good fit for most people, but our family likes them.
A lot.

stickguy

nyccarguy said:

GRRRRRRRRRRR

https://carsandbids.com/auctions/rx5PvqO6/1999-honda-prelude-type-sh

My my, that is nice. Miles almost too low though! Gorgeous color combo too.

Going to be pricey I assume.

nyccarguy

au1994 said:

kyfdx said:

tjc78 said:

What’s funny is I know a few Wrangler owners who all “love them”… but then you hear them complaining about how hot/cold they are with the convertible roof, the rough ride, how noisy they are, and that it’s cool to take the doors off but too much work.

I think they have a great look and are great vehicles, but even on a stupid cheap lease I know it wouldn’t be the vehicle for me.

I think they get compared to "regular" SUVs (Grand Cherokee, Pilot, etc), and they are most definitely not that. Even the Unlimited is still a Wrangler.

No, they are not that at all. Just be informed like any other major purchase. All of those things are true compared to a “regular” SUV but each generation of Wrangler has become more and more refined. Ironically, that’s something the hard core Jeep crew laments.

Currently doing the dance on a Granite Crystal Sahara 4xe.

I go back & forth in my head about the Wrangler a lot. I think it would be a great car for my wife. The giant 17" tires on the Rubicon would be a welcomed change from her Pilot's skinny-ish side wall 20s. I'm not sure if I'd go for the soft top or hard top. The soft top is easy to flip back and enjoy on a gorgeous day. I understand it is a nightmare trying to keep those plastic windows clean. The hard top offers more practicality, but if you are going to take the freedom panels off and keep them with you that's a big chunk of cargo space.

The bottom line is that we still need the space and practicality of a 3 row SUV. Maybe the next vehicle after the one that replaces the Pilot (I know, been hanging out with @stickguy too long) I'd look into a Wrangler or a Bronco.

28firefighter

My opinion is that the Sahara is actually a pretty compliant ride without being too crazy in terms of tire size. For those that don't want to go with a rubicon.

qbrozen

still no window sticker on mine. just the build sheet for 2 days.

sda

qbrozen said:

still no window sticker on mine. just the build sheet for 2 days.

How is the ML doing? Happy with how it runs and drives?

tifighter

I can see a Wrangler as a fun, 3rd car. That's the general problem, I can see lots of options as a 3rd, fun car...

[Deleted User]

tifighter said:

I can see a Wrangler as a fun, 3rd car. That's the general problem, I can see lots of options as a 3rd, fun car...

Looks like it'd be the 4th fun car for you...

stickguy

whatever I get can certainly just be a fun car. Not likely to ever have to really travel with it much. And if I did, probably would be alone and it would bother me way less than my wife!

henryn

I can definitely see a Wrangler as a fun, 2nd or 3rd car. But for me, that would not be a 4 door Unlimited, just the 2 door. And it would spend most of it's time topless and doorless. Probably just the base model with the V6 engine and the standard transmission. I mean, seriously, an automatic transmission in a Jeep??? Nah.

stickguy

Henry, I am of the same mindset. I don't need it to be practical, so if I am getting a Jeep, darn it, I want a real Jeep! Manual trans of course is a plus. I would though get the freedom (they still call it that?) hardtop since I would not want to deal with the soft top or plastic windows. I can't really see myself driving around doorless. I know the wife would not go for that.

so fun at times and totally impractical. Basically replacing my old Miata, except much easier to get in and out of, and my legs will fit!

sda

I would love to have another Miata as a fun car. Though I'm not as nimble as I was it would probably benefit me by getting me in better shape, mentally and physically.

mjfloyd1

@ab348 said:
Just be patient. A high percentage of new Wranglers sold end up on the used market in short order. I get the sense that the idea of owning a Wrangler is much more powerful than the reality of living with one for some significant number of people.

Lots of 4xe will end up on used car market because people are buying them to flip to vroom, carvana etc

I would have kept my JLU rubicon if they didn’t have the recall and swap the front steering stabilizer. The new one wasn’t good and I had death wobble. I hear that is more of an issue with Rubicon’s??

qbrozen

mjfloyd1 said:

Lots of 4xe will end up on used car market because people are buying them to flip to vroom, carvana etc

I believe our viewpoint is skewed. I'm pretty sure there are only a handful of us crazy people flipping them.

henryn

I could definitely see myself driving around doorless, no problem. Back more years than I want to count, a friend of mine had one of those fiberglass replicas of a T-bucket. More fun than anything you can think of (except for that, of course). Another friend of mine had a Meyers Manx, also a lot of fun but not fast.
We used to race that T-Bucket, it was very quick. Whenever I see one of those open, 2 seat, 3 wheelers I think of that T-bucket fondly. A 2 door jeep, topless and doorless, is probably about as close as I will ever come now to that T-bucket. I could not see myself climbing in and out of a T-bucket.

There are a lot of dreams that I have had to give up now that I'm old. But there are some advantages, such as having the time to pursue some things I could not before.

qbrozen

sda said:

qbrozen said:

still no window sticker on mine. just the build sheet for 2 days.

How is the ML doing? Happy with how it runs and drives?

Seems to be good. 70 mins or so on the road on Sunday with no issues. If I had to complain about something, I'd say the idle feels a little rough. I'm not sure. I don't recall "feeling" it before, but I do now. The wife made a comment, to which I replied "hey, it is a massive engine." I'm not sure I totally believe it myself, but no CEL, so it must be ok. lol.

If we're keeping it, I have a couple of things to sort. The power tailgate doesn't work, and it is in desperate need of an audio input. It has an Aux channel, which seems to be occupied by a very frayed first-gen iphone cord. But it goes through the glovebox and behind the stereo. I'm assuming a mod by the first owner. I've seen units online that plug into the back and are BT receivers. But it seems I need to pull the stereo out first to confirm fitment.

28firefighter

qbrozen said:

sda said:

qbrozen said:

still no window sticker on mine. just the build sheet for 2 days.

How is the ML doing? Happy with how it runs and drives?

Seems to be good. 70 mins or so on the road on Sunday with no issues. If I had to complain about something, I'd say the idle feels a little rough. I'm not sure. I don't recall "feeling" it before, but I do now. The wife made a comment, to which I replied "hey, it is a massive engine." I'm not sure I totally believe it myself, but no CEL, so it must be ok. lol.

If we're keeping it, I have a couple of things to sort. The power tailgate doesn't work, and it is in desperate need of an audio input. It has an Aux channel, which seems to be occupied by a very frayed first-gen iphone cord. But it goes through the glovebox and behind the stereo. I'm assuming a mod by the first owner. I've seen units online that plug into the back and are BT receivers. But it seems I need to pull the stereo out first to confirm fitment.

Engine mounts?

tifighter

dad23 said:

tifighter said:

I can see a Wrangler as a fun, 3rd car. That's the general problem, I can see lots of options as a 3rd, fun car...

Looks like it'd be the 4th fun car for you...

Fortunately (?) I can't accommodate a 4th car. I'm telling myself this is a good thing.

xwesx

Looks like that Saab is at end of auction and just broke $10K.

qbrozen

28firefighter said:

Engine mounts?

huh. interesting thought. I haven't had engine mount issues in decades, so it never occurred to me. I'll have to take a look.

nyccarguy

sda said:

I would love to have another Miata as a fun car. Though I'm not as nimble as I was it would probably benefit me by getting me in better shape, mentally and physically.

I saw a Black Miata RF this AM on my way in. Very cool car. Even the regular Miata with a soft top would be fun. My wife doesn't drive stick and I don't think I could bring myself to acquire a Miata with an Automatic. The Jeep does hit the fun and practical button at the same time (4 door, 4WD, Convertible) that can be driven year round.

Yes, I've seen the guy in the British Racing Green 1st Generation NA Miata driving with the top down when it was 25 degrees outside on the highway with the bomber jacket, hat, & goggles. I know it is possible to drive a Miata with proper winter tires for 4 seasons. I'm just not willing to do that at this point in my life.

mjfloyd1

Q7 is totaled. 33,000+ in damages. They value it at 44600. Wonder if I can get that value up a little??

breld

mjfloyd1 said:

Q7 is totaled. 33,000+ in damages. They value it at 44600. Wonder if I can get that value up a little??

Wow! I know it was the general consensus that it could be totaled, but just thinking about $33k of damage is nuts!

Is the family still doing well and feeling okay?

28firefighter

mjfloyd1 said:

Q7 is totaled. 33,000+ in damages. They value it at 44600. Wonder if I can get that value up a little??

Put it into Carvana, Vroom, and Carmax to get rough estimates (before they mark the VIN totaled). Might help you drive the discussion more. Also get comps on AutoTrader.

Small victories though!

[Deleted User]

tifighter said:

I can see a Wrangler as a fun, 3rd car. That's the general problem, I can see lots of options as a 3rd, fun car...

Looks like it'd be the 4th fun car for you...

stickguy

mjfloyd1 said:

Q7 is totaled. 33,000+ in damages. They value it at 44600. Wonder if I can get that value up a little??

And that’s before opening it up and likely finding more. Also a risk of getting to a point and finding something they can’t safely fix, and waste a ton of work!

Just be careful. Sounds like it just made the total cut. If you can convince them it’s worth $50, they may decide to fix it instead! Not that I would want it back.

oldfarmer50

ab348 said:

henryn said:

mjfloyd1 said:

I also had a $1000 bonus cash coupon from Jeep that was emailed to me. They ended up just reducing the price by $1000.

Ended up with 10.1% off MSRP plus the $7500 federal tax credit.

Wow. That's all I can say is just Wow. No wonder this is the third one sold or leased here in the last month or so. I have no real interest in a 4 door Wrangler and I'm still tempted.

Just be patient. A high percentage of new Wranglers sold end up on the used market in short order. I get the sense that the idea of owning a Wrangler is much more powerful than the reality of living with one for some significant number of people.

Bingo! But the insane resale value makes it easier to suffer the buyer’s remorse.

explorerx4

@mjflyod1,
Does the 44.6k include sales tax? Or doc fee?
If so, they valued the actual vehicle at a lower number.

oldfarmer50

nyccarguy said:

GRRRRRRRRRRR

https://carsandbids.com/auctions/rx5PvqO6/1999-honda-prelude-type-sh

That’s a rare time capsule. So when are you listing yours?

nyccarguy

oldfarmer50 said:

nyccarguy said:

GRRRRRRRRRRR

https://carsandbids.com/auctions/rx5PvqO6/1999-honda-prelude-type-sh

That’s a rare time capsule. So when are you listing yours?

Not with the lists of needs to get it looking like this one. Then there is the fact that mine has over 160,000 miles on it. Plus I'd like to enjoy it for 1 or 2 seasons, then teach my son how to drive stick on it.

oldfarmer50

mjfloyd1 said:

Q7 is totaled. 33,000+ in damages. They value it at 44600. Wonder if I can get that value up a little??

That’s what you were shooting for wasn’t it? Has the bus company’s insurance been any more forthcoming?

xwesx

mjfloyd1 said:

Q7 is totaled. 33,000+ in damages. They value it at 44600. Wonder if I can get that value up a little??

I think so. Best thing you can do is find similar/same vehicles in the region at retail prices and use those for comparisons. $45K just *sounds* low for this market.

mjfloyd1

qbrozen said:

mjfloyd1 said:

Lots of 4xe will end up on used car market because people are buying them to flip to vroom, carvana etc

I believe our viewpoint is skewed. I'm pretty sure there are only a handful of us crazy people flipping them.

You callin' me an Andre?

mjfloyd1

28firefighter said:

mjfloyd1 said:

Q7 is totaled. 33,000+ in damages. They value it at 44600. Wonder if I can get that value up a little??

Put it into Carvana, Vroom, and Carmax to get rough estimates (before they mark the VIN totaled). Might help you drive the discussion more. Also get comps on AutoTrader.

Small victories though!

I did that the day of the accident. I'll see if it has increased tho

mjfloyd1

explorerx4 said:

@mjflyod1,
Does the 44.6k include sales tax? Or doc fee?
If so, they valued the actual vehicle at a lower number.

Before taxes. I backed into the number assuming only 7% sales tax. I'll have to add doc fee

That's a funny spelling of floyd. I had an OB nurse that used to write Dr. Flyod on the board. Every time, I would ask her what my name is and she would say Floyd. Every time I would ask her why she wrote Fly od

mjfloyd1

xwesx said:

mjfloyd1 said:

Q7 is totaled. 33,000+ in damages. They value it at 44600. Wonder if I can get that value up a little??

I think so. Best thing you can do is find similar/same vehicles in the region at retail prices and use those for comparisons. $45K just *sounds* low for this market.

They keep saying "not fair market value because dealers mark them up" to my wife. I need a good response. I guess I should just say that I don't have a dealers license and can't buy at wholesale

qbrozen

I thought the insurance check is supposed to cover replacement value, which includes all taxes and fees? I think it HAS to, otherwise people would constantly be suing the at-fault party for more.

qbrozen

I see it is state-dependent. Click to open the table and find your state.

https://www.insure.com/car-insurance/total-loss-settlements.html#:~:text=No state sales tax.&text=Insurer must (1) offer a,§ 11:3-10.4.

xwesx

mjfloyd1 said:

xwesx said:

mjfloyd1 said:

Q7 is totaled. 33,000+ in damages. They value it at 44600. Wonder if I can get that value up a little??

I think so. Best thing you can do is find similar/same vehicles in the region at retail prices and use those for comparisons. $45K just *sounds* low for this market.

They keep saying "not fair market value because dealers mark them up" to my wife. I need a good response. I guess I should just say that I don't have a dealers license and can't buy at wholesale

That's silly. Replacement value is replacement value, so where do they expect you to buy your replacement car?!

henryn

qbrozen said:

I thought the insurance check is supposed to cover replacement value, which includes all taxes and fees? I think it HAS to, otherwise people would constantly be suing the at-fault party for more.

It has been quite a while since I had a car totaled (2010 if memory serves), but the basic quandary is between taking the check or allowing them to replace with a "similar" vehicle. The one time I got in a dispute with the insurance back around 1980, I told them to go ahead and try to replace. That was on a 1970 Challenger convertible. They offered me a 6 cylinder convertible to replace a V8 (no, thanks), and a V8 hard top (no, thanks), and finally negotiated a higher settlement as they could not find a similar replacement. You can be very picky about the replacement, you do not have to take what they offer.

kyfdx

I don't think you'll get anything toward dealer or registration fees, but you'll certainly get sales tax added.

qbrozen

kyfdx said:

I don't think you'll get anything toward dealer or registration fees, but you'll certainly get sales tax added.

You do in NJ.

Insurer must (1) offer a cash settlement based upon the actual cost of a “substantially similar auto” including all applicable taxes and other fees, or (2) offer a replacement auto including all applicable taxes, license fees, and other fees. N.J. Admin. Code § 11:3-10.4.

au1994

Refresh my memory again on the age and miles of the Q7? From my recollection, 44.6 is not nearly enough, even outside of this crazy market.