Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

jmonroe1

@roadburner said:
Normal is boring.

Normally that’s the case for normal folks.

Jmonroe

kyfdx

stickguy said:

I am guessing, sadly, that the top notch service from Tire Rack is about to take a nosedive.

I'll disagree. Discount Tire has a great operation. From on-line through their stores (at least my local ones). Seems like a pretty good marriage.

graphicguy

@mrwhipple …..nice punch. Congrats!

stickguy

Car price craziness continues. On a Maverick forum, somebody just ran their new truck through Vroom. An XL, MSRP ~$22,800,, they offered ~$27,900. Just craziness.

ab348

Had my first Dr. appointment following my heart valve replacement with my family doctor (another tomorrow with a cardiologist). Her office is close to the two largest GM and Ford dealers here, so I took a careful look at their lots as I went past. The Ford dealer had almost no new inventory - a couple of Mustangs, an Explorer, and a few HD pickups. Lot is empty otherwise except for used vehicles not for sale, possibly lease returns. Almost the same story at the GM dealer. They have a few Sparks, a bunch of Bolts on a stop-sale status, and the odd SUV, but their large holding lot is completely bare. Looks like the supply chain still isn't close to full.

sda

Discount Tire and Tire Rack are two of my favorites. In the past I have had DT match prices from TR without question. Not sure that is a concern by losing that ability as there are other tire providers like NTB which will help keep things competitive.

qbrozen

stickguy said:

Car price craziness continues. On a Maverick forum, somebody just ran their new truck through Vroom. An XL, MSRP ~$22,800,, they offered ~$27,900. Just craziness.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-11-20/ford-s-2022-hybrid-maverick-so-popular-it-s-sold-out

stickguy

I’m curious to see how many orders don’t get purchased, and turn into dealer stock. A lot of them will be 6 months old by the time they hit the lot.

Ford also underestimated hybrid demand. Ended up being more like 60%, not the 40% they originally anticipated.

sda

stickguy said:

I’m curious to see how many orders don’t get purchased, and turn into dealer stock. A lot of them will be 6 months old by the time they hit the lot.

Ford also underestimated hybrid demand. Ended up being more like 60%, not the 40% they originally anticipated.

I imagine the pop in gas prices made buyers reconsider power vs economy.

explorerx4

I think the low price and good reviews are driving the demand for the Mav Hybrid.
They are capacity constrained, so this years availability has been consumed, regardless.

au1994

Looks like Honda dropped the ‘base’ Sport trim on the Passport. It now starts with the EX-L at ~$39k. Thats still a pretty fair deal. The EX-L is typically well equipped.

Probably more trimming of trim levels to come from all manufacturers as parts remain thin on the ground.

stickguy

I think the mostly sold higher lever passports anyway, and likely all they can make. It didn’t seem like something people wanted stripper work versions of.

Maverick, at sticker is a screaming bargain to start with, with versions to cover many needs. And reviews so far very positive. Also helps to basically have a market slice to itself (I don’t really see the Santa Cruz as a real competitor for sales).

My guess is next year or 2, other brands will introduce models though. Rebirth of the relatively compact truck market!

And makers cutting out trim lines, not surprised to see that now.

tjc78

I agree… I think there is a large potential in the marketplace for smaller pickups.

I think it will cut into sales of similarly sized SUVs.

In all reality something like the Maverick would be perfect for my family’s lifestyle. It would be nice to throw the beach stuff in the bed rather than getting sand in the back of the SUV every weekend.

I’m just not ready to give up a sedan as my primary driver!

au1994

Leaders in the clubhouse to replace the 4xe at lease end would be a Maverick or a hybrid version of the Gladiator if it comes around.

jmonroe1

@qbrozen said:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-11-20/ford-s-2022-hybrid-maverick-so-popular-it-s-sold-out

I can see it all now…and The North American Small Truck Award goes to…the Maverick Mulch Mauler. Has a kinda cute ring to it.

jmonroe

xwesx

corvette said:

Discount Tire to acquire Tire Rack

I hope they adopt TR's (superior) review and rating system.

Not a bad move. I've never had a better in-person experience than Discount Tire, and I've never had a better online experience than Tire Rack. If they can merge those elements in a synergistic way, they'll certainly rule the industry.

xwesx

corvette said:

stickguy said:

I am guessing, sadly, that the top notch service from Tire Rack is about to take a nosedive.

I've received excellent customer service from Discount Tire, both online and in person.

I wish my experience were the same. I will say that Discount Tire really *tried* to offer great service through their "Direct," but they just didn't.

xwesx

stickguy said:

I think the mostly sold higher lever passports anyway, and likely all they can make. It didn’t seem like something people wanted stripper work versions of.

Maverick, at sticker is a screaming bargain to start with, with versions to cover many needs. And reviews so far very positive. Also helps to basically have a market slice to itself (I don’t really see the Santa Cruz as a real competitor for sales).

My guess is next year or 2, other brands will introduce models though. Rebirth of the relatively compact truck market!

And makers cutting out trim lines, not surprised to see that now.

Makes a lot of sense for the manufacturers to focus on higher trims. They get a much larger margin on those anyway, so if you're limited on how many you can put out there, might as well get the most bang for the buck.

xwesx

au1994 said:

Leaders in the clubhouse to replace the 4xe at lease end would be a Maverick or a hybrid version of the Gladiator if it comes around.

It will, unless they jump directly to electric!

My supervisor just purchased a crazy-version Durango (Hellcat?) to replace her Jeep GC Trackhawk. Not that she "needed" to do that, mind you, considering that the Jeep was maybe three years old (if that) and had very few miles. She did note that the Durango has something like three or four additional HP from the Jeep (which I'm sure is noticeable at 700+ HP), but she said her main reason was because she was able to get into the Durango for nearly nothing (trading in the Jeep), and *apparently* Dodge is ceasing production of their halo versions (Hellcat, etc.) in the very near future due to CAFE requirements.

Anyone else heard that? I mean, it makes sense considering the sales #s and product mix at Dodge/Jeep/Ram, but, again, I suspect they will jump heavy into the electric realm to offset the continuation of those halo models, since those are really the only thing that keeps the brand(s) on the automotive radar for a lot of people.

au1994

I’ve always had great service with Discount Tire, especially pre-labor shortage. They were very accommodating to fit you in for a rotate and balance without an appointment going going as far us doing it with a floor jack in front of one of the bays.

explorerx4

@xwesx,
I Hellcat, etc are to be discontiunes after 2023? Jeep will be in the same boat as Dodge. They share drivetrains now.

stickguy

When you guys are ready, come on down to Sticks Maverick emporium. I’m sure we will be able to work out a deal for you!

stickguy

Apparently discount tire isn’t on the east coast. There are none near me. Could be why I’ve never used them. We do have a lot of Mavis stores now. My last few tire or brake purchases have been through them, and I’ve been satisfied.

qbrozen

Waiting at ford dealer. Poor people have 12 F150s, 6 of the smaller Lincoln SUVs, and 1 ea of an Expedition and the midsized Lincoln SUV. That’s it on new. About 20 used of various ilk, mostly SUVs.

Oh and a GT500 on the showroom floor carrying a $99k sticker plus $30k adm.

explorerx4

TR6 for sale locally.
https://www.motorcarsinc.com/details-1974-triumph-tr6-collectible_-used-cf18914u.html

roadburner

qbrozen said:

Waiting at ford dealer. Poor people have 12 F150s, 6 of the smaller Lincoln SUVs, and 1 ea of an Expedition and the midsized Lincoln SUV. That’s it on new. About 20 used of various ilk, mostly SUVs.

Oh and a GT500 on the showroom floor carrying a $99k sticker plus $30k adm.

As I've said, with the exception of two dealers, the Ford dealers I've dealt with seem to be motivated to royally p*ss me off.

corvette

Wait, why is @qbrozen at the Ford dealer, again? Is there a punch pending?

jmonroe1

@roadburner said:
As I've said, with the exception of two dealers, the Ford dealers I've dealt with seem to be motivated to royally p*ss me off.

And I’d venture a guess it didn’t even take a $30K ADM to do it either.

jmonroe

tifighter

corvette said:

Wait, why is @qbrozen at the Ford dealer, again? Is there a punch pending?

I think he's there to pick up the elusive Mach-E.

oldfarmer50

tjc78 said:

I agree… I think there is a large potential in the marketplace for smaller pickups.

I think it will cut into sales of similarly sized SUVs.

In all reality something like the Maverick would be perfect for my family’s lifestyle. It would be nice to throw the beach stuff in the bed rather than getting sand in the back of the SUV every weekend.

I’m just not ready to give up a sedan as my primary driver!

Has anybody done a comparison on the size of the Maverick vs. the pre 2011 Ranger? One of the criticisms of the old Ranger platform was that it was too small compared to it’s contemporaries. Strange how that might be a positive thing today.

oldfarmer50

qbrozen said:

Waiting at ford dealer. Poor people have 12 F150s, 6 of the smaller Lincoln SUVs, and 1 ea of an Expedition and the midsized Lincoln SUV. That’s it on new. About 20 used of various ilk, mostly SUVs.

Oh and a GT500 on the showroom floor carrying a $99k sticker plus $30k adm.

My Kia dealer is listing about 90 vehicles in inventory but who knows how many of those are on order or already sold.

explorerx4

@oldfarmer50,
Too small in what way?

xwesx

oldfarmer50 said:

Has anybody done a comparison on the size of the Maverick vs. the pre 2011 Ranger? One of the criticisms of the old Ranger platform was that it was too small compared to it’s contemporaries. Strange how that might be a positive thing today.

They certainly were criticized for that. Well, and also the fact that they didn't have any major updates in, I dunno.... forever? Of course, that doesn't seem so bad now in light of the Frontier soldering on without an update for more than fifteen years.

I imagine the venrable Ranger of yester-year would have held onto sales much better had it adapted to changing trends, such as the four-door revolution, and received the type of attention the F150 gets.

xwesx

explorerx4 said:

@oldfarmer50,
Too small in what way?

They weren't a creature-comfort type of truck, and the 2005+ Nissan and Toyota (Tacoma) offerings were definitely moving heavily toward the creature comforts. The trucks were all business and the cabs were tight.

Honestly, the Ranger being discontinued was very likely a result of the "great recession," where Ford was the only US automaker to not take a government bailout.

qbrozen

Salesman informed me all the cars I thought were new were used. Wow.

Anyway, drove her home. In short, I am THOROUGHLY impressed. Such a sweet ride. The first time I stomped it from a roll, I think I peed a little. It took me by surprise. And it feels quite luxurious, to boot. The little touches are cool, such as the wireless charging, pop-open doors, and the Mustang projection on the ground. Oh, and the proximity key actually WORKS. Not like chrysler where you have to touch the door handle, it lights up as you approach and locks itself when you leave.

Weird oversight, though, is lack of seat cushion tilt. I know they had to save SOME things for higher trims, but how about the 4-way power lumbar? Seems silly to give me that but not a basic tilt.

roadburner

jmonroe1 said:

@roadburner said:

As I've said, with the exception of two dealers, the Ford dealers I've dealt with seem to be motivated to royally p*ss me off.

And I’d venture a guess it didn’t even take a $30K ADM to do it either.

jmonroe

All it required was a simple mix of dishonesty and incompetence...

tifighter

rayainsw

qbrozen -
Congrats!
- Ray
More initial impressions, please ...

Sandman6472

I like that Mustang! Very cool!! How long are they...just wonder if it could fit on my side of our garage? We're just not Ford people, but for something this cool, think I could try to live with one. Have a feeling though that the price will be just north of $50K or so. I'm still having an issue wrapping my mind about spending $30K on something right now! Finally got used to the $20K price point and then I hear talk about $30K, what happened to $25K? Whatever, just super glad that we're both not in the market at this point.ave checked the local guys Corolla Cross inventory and still none have come in with the JBL audio package, a must have if I do get one. Would give up the moon roof if necessary but wouldn't be happy as this is the time of year I use it especially in the cooler mornings and evenings. The JBL is non-negotiable as far as I'm concerned!

qbrozen

Seats have some cushion to them, which is nice in todays cars. It is pretty roomy. My older son tried the back seat when I got home and reported he had plenty of room with the driver's seat set for me.

The tablet is going to take some getting used to. I was having a hard time finding simple things. But, the salesperson informed me I should rely on the voice commands for easiest interface. That helped on the way home. It is very responsive. The navigation is very nice. Gives more voice command details than I've seen/heard before.

Car rides very very nice. Everything is muffled. Just a solid and stable feel and sound. The power is fantastic, as I previously mentioned. I was mostly in a straight line on the way home, so I'll have to report back about handling. I'm guessing it is about as good as you'd expect from a 2.25-ton SUV.

mjfloyd1

Mustang Mach e length 186 inches

notamustang

Sandman6472

Is it new or pre-owned? Have seen a couple down here, both in red, and it really is a good looking vehicle. Could actually seeing myself in one now that my driving is almost nil. Leasing that might be the way to go especially if I want to stick my toe in the leasing waters.

mjfloyd1

The Mach e is almost 10.5 inches longer than the Corolla cross

Sandman6472

About 185" I'm guessing. Cross another vehicle off the list!

explorerx4

@qbrozen,
I see from the sticker it has an 8 way power driver seat.
Try putting you finger on the front half of the control and push up.
Usually, that lifts the front of the seat.

tjc78

Cool car Q. Enjoy it!

ab348

qbrozen said:

But, the salesperson informed me I should rely on the voice commands for easiest interface. That helped on the way home. It is very responsive. The navigation is very nice. Gives more voice command details than I've seen/heard before.

If that was me, it would have been good for big laffs given how voice command for anything never seems to work for me.

stickguy

oldfarmer50 said:

tjc78 said:

I agree… I think there is a large potential in the marketplace for smaller pickups.

I think it will cut into sales of similarly sized SUVs.

In all reality something like the Maverick would be perfect for my family’s lifestyle. It would be nice to throw the beach stuff in the bed rather than getting sand in the back of the SUV every weekend.

I’m just not ready to give up a sedan as my primary driver!

Has anybody done a comparison on the size of the Maverick vs. the pre 2011 Ranger? One of the criticisms of the old Ranger platform was that it was too small compared to it’s contemporaries. Strange how that might be a positive thing today.

I saw a few things online. I actually got curious this morning and looked up the numbers. Compared to a 2010 extended cab, they are within a couple of inches in length of each other (I think the Ranger is slightly longer in that configuration). Maverick is about 3" wider (69 vs. 72) and is a couple of inches taller. But pretty much the same size. Biggest difference of course is a 4 door cab and 4.5' bed, vs. jump seats and a 6' bed.

nyccarguy

Nice ride @qbrozen ! Congrats!

stickguy

nice looking QB. I should try an EV like that someday. They do sound like they drive nice, just different.

Enjoy it for the 3-4 weeks you own it!

I have been to that Ford deal. I bought my Nissan PU from the Nissan store over there.