Dealer where I first leased the wagon kept me on their mailing list, I just received this offer on an EQE - some discount off MSRP I guess, and some mop 'n glo to boot:
What’s the difference between the doc service fee and the license fee? If I had to pay $639 each for appearance and dent protection I’d be running into everything I could find to get my money’s worth.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Dealer where I first leased the wagon kept me on their mailing list, I just received this offer on an EQE - some discount off MSRP I guess, and some mop 'n glo to boot:
What’s the difference between the doc service fee and the license fee? If I had to pay $639 each for appearance and dent protection I’d be running into everything I could find to get my money’s worth.
License fee is government registration. Doc fee is a dealer fee
Dealer where I first leased the wagon kept me on their mailing list, I just received this offer on an EQE - some discount off MSRP I guess, and some mop 'n glo to boot:
What’s the difference between the doc service fee and the license fee? If I had to pay $639 each for appearance and dent protection I’d be running into everything I could find to get my money’s worth.
License fee is government registration. Doc fee is a dealer fee
So what they used to call TTL?
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Dealer where I first leased the wagon kept me on their mailing list, I just received this offer on an EQE - some discount off MSRP I guess, and some mop 'n glo to boot:
What’s the difference between the doc service fee and the license fee? If I had to pay $639 each for appearance and dent protection I’d be running into everything I could find to get my money’s worth.
License fee is government registration. Doc fee is a dealer fee
So what they used to call TTL?
I think it varies from state to state.
In CA, you pay the DMV for the title and plates through the dealer, and it's part of the contract. Dealer does the admin, and you pick up the plates from the dealer.
In CO, each county manages the issuance of title, registration and plates, so none of those costs are addressed through the dealer. You pay the county directly, and separately, for those items (plus the personal property tax, which is part of the registration fee).
In Indiana, they spray used oil on dirt/gravel roads in the Summer, to keep down the dust..
In Indiana where there were still gravel roads in rural areas, the homeowners sometimes paid to have calcium chloride solution sprayed onto the road in front of their residence, e.g.. The calcium chloride is hygroscopic and attracted and held moisture, keeping down the amount of dust from the occasional passing cars.
I had to google that one. Definitely never heard of it, but I grew up next to a golf course 😂
I'm not certain about the spray of used oil on the roads separately or along with the CaCl.
But I suspect that may have been done in some areas by contractors. I do recall spraying Dioxin on roads in Times Beach, Missouri, near the river and then flood waters contaminating the whole area.
Dealer where I first leased the wagon kept me on their mailing list, I just received this offer on an EQE - some discount off MSRP I guess, and some mop 'n glo to boot:
What’s the difference between the doc service fee and the license fee? If I had to pay $639 each for appearance and dent protection I’d be running into everything I could find to get my money’s worth.
License fee is government registration. Doc fee is a dealer fee
So what they used to call TTL?
Just Title and License. Sales tax in WA is over 10%
So technically it is called a negotiable documentary fee. In reality it isn’t.
There is supposedly some legal precedent out there that says the dealer doesn’t have to charge it, but if they do they need to charge it to everyone who shops there and cannot charge more than the cop. Who knows if it’s true - but I’ve never seen a dealer negotiate it or choose not to charge it.
And WA sales tax is wild. In western WA usually 10-10.6% on cars. A bit less in eastern WA because county and city tax is lower. But, no income tax so I can’t complain too much.
2025 Jetta GLI Autobahn, 2024 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4xE
So technically it is called a negotiable documentary fee. In reality it isn’t.
There is supposedly some legal precedent out there that says the dealer doesn’t have to charge it, but if they do they need to charge it to everyone who shops there and cannot charge more than the cop. Who knows if it’s true - but I’ve never seen a dealer negotiate it or choose not to charge it.
And WA sales tax is wild. In western WA usually 10-10.6% on cars. A bit less in eastern WA because county and city tax is lower. But, no income tax so I can’t complain too much.
Wyoming also doesn't have an income tax, and the state sales tax rate is just 4%.
So technically it is called a negotiable documentary fee. In reality it isn’t.
There is supposedly some legal precedent out there that says the dealer doesn’t have to charge it, but if they do they need to charge it to everyone who shops there and cannot charge more than the cop. Who knows if it’s true - but I’ve never seen a dealer negotiate it or choose not to charge it.
And WA sales tax is wild. In western WA usually 10-10.6% on cars. A bit less in eastern WA because county and city tax is lower. But, no income tax so I can’t complain too much.
Wyoming also doesn't have an income tax, and the state sales tax rate is just 4%.
But, you have to live in Wyoming.
There is supposedly some legal precedent out there that says the dealer doesn’t have to charge it, but if they do they need to charge it to everyone who shops there and cannot charge more than the cop. Who knows if it’s true - but I’ve never seen a dealer negotiate it or choose not to charge it.
I'm guessing this is a lie.. (not you, them) Lawyers probably suggest this, as who wants to get a charge of discrimination against a protected party? But, I'll posit that there is no actual legal standing for this line of BS.
But, once they get you thinking about anything other than the total cost, they've done their job.
I'm not certain about the spray of used oil on the roads separately or along with the CaCl.
But I suspect that may have been done in some areas by contractors. I do recall spraying Dioxin on roads in Times Beach, Missouri, near the river and then flood waters contaminating the whole area.
That link is for somewhere in Canada.
Judging by the pickup truck in the pictures, it seems that you and @kyfdx have been reminiscing. 😂
@andres3 said:
I got my S4 back and it looks pretty good. I'll say I think the fenders/hood are a bit "tweaked" but by the normal lay person's standards no one but a "crazy" like me with an eye for fit n' finish would notice. They were able to straighten, even out, and improve the hood fitment and the gaps with the fenders, but it's not perfect. The owner said perhaps you need a new hood....I said maybe I do. But that's a can of worms, maybe needs new fenders too. Could a fender have been "tweaked" in the collision without any paint damage? Could someone misalign a fender easily? I'm not expert enough to say.
I have to accept it all because I bought the car used, and even though the Carfax said "no prior accidents" one of the fenders is giving me doubts upon very scrutinized close inspection. If I bought it new I'd be 100% certain enough Ingolstadt would never let a car like this leave the factory. Good enough for US car assembly standards I guess, and the reason DV is both real and inherent; especially in higher quality German vehicles.
At least the paint work is good! Shiny, very red, and well color sanded/polished. The owner told me he does 99.9% of the paint work in his shop, even at 72 years old. He said the only one who paints besides him is his son (Jr.) and that's only when he's on vacation.
I'm guessing he rarely takes vacations. How much longer can he keep it up though? At some point his eyes are gonna go I know mine are already imperfect. I need to trade my eyes in for the 20 year old versions rather than the 40+.
Man, I love the S4 after having driven the TTS daily for over 3 weeks. Keep in mind the TTS is on 200 treadwear track like tires, so it's harder riding, louder, and just a generally stiffer ride than the S4, which is sublimely quiet on All-Season Pilot Sport 4's.
Sorry for your troubles.
Sounds like you were done in by those “other bad drivers”. 😂
So technically it is called a negotiable documentary fee. In reality it isn’t.
There is supposedly some legal precedent out there that says the dealer doesn’t have to charge it, but if they do they need to charge it to everyone who shops there and cannot charge more than the cop. Who knows if it’s true - but I’ve never seen a dealer negotiate it or choose not to charge it.
And WA sales tax is wild. In western WA usually 10-10.6% on cars. A bit less in eastern WA because county and city tax is lower. But, no income tax so I can’t complain too much.
Wyoming also doesn't have an income tax, and the state sales tax rate is just 4%.
But, you have to live in Wyoming.
———————————————— So that means you’re a cowboy. They don’t need a car, only a horse. But I’m sure the state has a whopping tax on horses.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis Ultimate just like jmonroe's. '18 Legacy Limited with 3.6R (Mrs. j's)
In Indiana where there were still gravel roads in rural areas, the homeowners sometimes paid to have calcium chloride solution sprayed onto the road in front of their residence, e.g.. The calcium chloride is hygroscopic and attracted and held moisture, keeping down the amount of dust from the occasional passing cars.
I had to google that one. Definitely never heard of it, but I grew up next to a golf course 😂
I'm not certain about the spray of used oil on the roads separately or along with the CaCl.
But I suspect that may have been done in some areas by contractors. I do recall spraying Dioxin on roads in Times Beach, Missouri, near the river and then flood waters contaminating the whole area.
I lived on a gravel road in Indiana in the 60's. The county highway department would place used oil on the road in front of our house every summer. Until it soaked in, it was a mess. I still live in the same county, and fortunately, I haven't seen it used in many years.
So technically it is called a negotiable documentary fee. In reality it isn’t.
There is supposedly some legal precedent out there that says the dealer doesn’t have to charge it, but if they do they need to charge it to everyone who shops there and cannot charge more than the cop. Who knows if it’s true - but I’ve never seen a dealer negotiate it or choose not to charge it.
And WA sales tax is wild. In western WA usually 10-10.6% on cars. A bit less in eastern WA because county and city tax is lower. But, no income tax so I can’t complain too much.
Wyoming also doesn't have an income tax, and the state sales tax rate is just 4%.
But, you have to live in Wyoming.
———————————————— So that means you’re a cowboy. They don’t need a car, only a horse. But I’m sure the state has a whopping tax on horses.
jmonroe
Not me. Wife is a Colorado native, but spent most of her childhood in Laramie and Cheyenne.
The old license plates used to have an outline of a cowboy on a bucking bronco (not the Ford, the animal).
Speaking of which, "The Daddy of 'em All", Cheyenne Frontier Days, is starting next week.
Dealer where I first leased the wagon kept me on their mailing list, I just received this offer on an EQE - some discount off MSRP I guess, and some mop 'n glo to boot:
What’s the difference between the doc service fee and the license fee? If I had to pay $639 each for appearance and dent protection I’d be running into everything I could find to get my money’s worth.
License fee is government registration. Doc fee is a dealer fee
So what they used to call TTL?
Just Title and License. Sales tax in WA is over 10%
Ouch. Is there a cap?
2021 VW Arteon SEL 4-motion, 2018 VW Passat SE w/tech, 2016 Audi Q5 Premium Plus w/tech
I'm not certain about the spray of used oil on the roads separately or along with the CaCl.
But I suspect that may have been done in some areas by contractors. I do recall spraying Dioxin on roads in Times Beach, Missouri, near the river and then flood waters contaminating the whole area.
That link is for somewhere in Canada.
Judging by the pickup truck in the pictures, it seems that you and @kyfdx have been reminiscing. 😂
So technically it is called a negotiable documentary fee. In reality it isn’t.
There is supposedly some legal precedent out there that says the dealer doesn’t have to charge it, but if they do they need to charge it to everyone who shops there and cannot charge more than the cop. Who knows if it’s true - but I’ve never seen a dealer negotiate it or choose not to charge it.
And WA sales tax is wild. In western WA usually 10-10.6% on cars. A bit less in eastern WA because county and city tax is lower. But, no income tax so I can’t complain too much.
Wyoming also doesn't have an income tax, and the state sales tax rate is just 4%.
But, you have to live in Wyoming.
———————————————— So that means you’re a cowboy. They don’t need a car, only a horse. But I’m sure the state has a whopping tax on horses.
jmonroe
Not me. Wife is a Colorado native, but spent most of her childhood in Laramie and Cheyenne.
The old license plates used to have an outline of a cowboy on a bucking bronco (not the Ford, the animal).
Speaking of which, "The Daddy of 'em All", Cheyenne Frontier Days, is starting next week.
———————————————— It’s been a while but I’ve seen that license plate with the bucking bronco. Is it still being used?
jmonroe
'15 Genesis Ultimate just like jmonroe's. '18 Legacy Limited with 3.6R (Mrs. j's)
I saw @roadburner's ti at the Concours (and I think I saw @roadburner himself, although he was occupied with another attendee and I didn't want to interrupt). Lots of neat stuff at the show.
I drove my own hot hatch (the Prius), and nearly rear ended the pickup in front of me when some idiot in front of the pickup abruptly did a u-turn in the middle of Versailles Road, where there was no intersection or turning lane. Almost confirmed the hard way that it needs new tires. They're at about 4 to 5/32" tread depth and don't seem to hydroplane, but traction for starting and stopping is poor. The manufacture date is almost five years ago, and I suspect the rubber has just hardened to the point where they break loose easily. The aggressive ABS/stability control on the Prius is also a compounding factor.
Dealer where I first leased the wagon kept me on their mailing list, I just received this offer on an EQE - some discount off MSRP I guess, and some mop 'n glo to boot:
What’s the difference between the doc service fee and the license fee? If I had to pay $639 each for appearance and dent protection I’d be running into everything I could find to get my money’s worth.
License fee is government registration. Doc fee is a dealer fee
So what they used to call TTL?
Just Title and License. Sales tax in WA is over 10%
Ouch. Is there a cap?
Nope.. SC is the place to be for that. Sales tax on vehicles capped at $500
Dealer where I first leased the wagon kept me on their mailing list, I just received this offer on an EQE - some discount off MSRP I guess, and some mop 'n glo to boot:
What’s the difference between the doc service fee and the license fee? If I had to pay $639 each for appearance and dent protection I’d be running into everything I could find to get my money’s worth.
License fee is government registration. Doc fee is a dealer fee
So what they used to call TTL?
Just Title and License. Sales tax in WA is over 10%
Ouch. Is there a cap?
Nope.. SC is the place to be for that. Sales tax on vehicles capped at $500
———————————————— When I lived in SC (1992 to 1997), I’m pretty sure the cap was $350 and I wasn’t close to the cap owning a 1980 Park Ave and a ‘95 Bonneville.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis Ultimate just like jmonroe's. '18 Legacy Limited with 3.6R (Mrs. j's)
I saw @roadburner's ti at the Concours (and I think I saw @roadburner himself, although he was occupied with another attendee and I didn't want to interrupt). Lots of neat stuff at the show.
I drove my own hot hatch (the Prius), and nearly rear ended the pickup in front of me when some idiot in front of the pickup abruptly did a u-turn in the middle of Versailles Road, where there was no intersection or turning lane. Almost confirmed the hard way that it needs new tires. They're at about 4 to 5/32" tread depth and don't seem to hydroplane, but traction for starting and stopping is poor. The manufacture date is almost five years ago, and I suspect the rubber has just hardened to the point where they break loose easily. The aggressive ABS/stability control on the Prius is also a compounding factor.
———————————————— He was probably telling them he’s now a Benz convert.
You would have gotten his attention if you started tinkering under his hood.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis Ultimate just like jmonroe's. '18 Legacy Limited with 3.6R (Mrs. j's)
So technically it is called a negotiable documentary fee. In reality it isn’t.
There is supposedly some legal precedent out there that says the dealer doesn’t have to charge it, but if they do they need to charge it to everyone who shops there and cannot charge more than the cop. Who knows if it’s true - but I’ve never seen a dealer negotiate it or choose not to charge it.
And WA sales tax is wild. In western WA usually 10-10.6% on cars. A bit less in eastern WA because county and city tax is lower. But, no income tax so I can’t complain too much.
Wyoming also doesn't have an income tax, and the state sales tax rate is just 4%.
But, you have to live in Wyoming.
———————————————— So that means you’re a cowboy. They don’t need a car, only a horse. But I’m sure the state has a whopping tax on horses.
jmonroe
Not me. Wife is a Colorado native, but spent most of her childhood in Laramie and Cheyenne.
The old license plates used to have an outline of a cowboy on a bucking bronco (not the Ford, the animal).
Speaking of which, "The Daddy of 'em All", Cheyenne Frontier Days, is starting next week.
———————————————— It’s been a while but I’ve seen that license plate with the bucking bronco. Is it still being used?
I saw @roadburner's ti at the Concours (and I think I saw @roadburner himself, although he was occupied with another attendee and I didn't want to interrupt). Lots of neat stuff at the show.
I drove my own hot hatch (the Prius), and nearly rear ended the pickup in front of me when some idiot in front of the pickup abruptly did a u-turn in the middle of Versailles Road, where there was no intersection or turning lane. Almost confirmed the hard way that it needs new tires. They're at about 4 to 5/32" tread depth and don't seem to hydroplane, but traction for starting and stopping is poor. The manufacture date is almost five years ago, and I suspect the rubber has just hardened to the point where they break loose easily. The aggressive ABS/stability control on the Prius is also a compounding factor.
You should have interrupted. It was a lot of fun in spite of the rain. The Ferrari 575 won the class- I heard the owner had sprung for a 60 hour(!) detail job. Runner-up was an E46 M3 belonging to a fellow BMW CCA member.
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
————————————————
I’m surprised that owners who spent a lot of time detailing their cars (themselves or a pro) would park their cars under a tree. I know this isn’t the sap time of the year but I wouldn’t do that. I’d much rather have it rained on than collecting who knows what from a tree overhead.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis Ultimate just like jmonroe's. '18 Legacy Limited with 3.6R (Mrs. j's)
I decided to take Mrs. j out for our anniversary tonight even though it’s officially tomorrow. Went to a newer nicer type of restaurant at the local mall. I drove her Subie and it was waaay out of place. I parked in front of a Maserati (I saw two of those), then two Porches and at least a half dozen Benz and BMW’s. But I’m willing to bet the food we got was just as good as those guys. Won’t be doing that again for another year.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis Ultimate just like jmonroe's. '18 Legacy Limited with 3.6R (Mrs. j's)
I decided to take Mrs. j out for our anniversary tonight even though it’s officially tomorrow. Went to a newer nicer type of restaurant at the local mall. I drove her Subie and it was waaay out of place. I parked in front of a Maserati (I saw two of those), then two Porches and at least a half dozen Benz and BMW’s. But I’m willing to bet the food we got was just as good as those guys. Won’t be doing that again for another year.
jmonroe
Congratulations and many more!
2021 VW Arteon SEL 4-motion, 2018 VW Passat SE w/tech, 2016 Audi Q5 Premium Plus w/tech
I decided to take Mrs. j out for our anniversary tonight even though it’s officially tomorrow. Went to a newer nicer type of restaurant at the local mall. I drove her Subie and it was waaay out of place. I parked in front of a Maserati (I saw two of those), then two Porches and at least a half dozen Benz and BMW’s. But I’m willing to bet the food we got was just as good as those guys. Won’t be doing that again for another year.
jmonroe
Congratulations and many more!
Ditto!
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
So today was car dealer Saturday. As some may recall, we are in need of a vehicle that can deal with two 6+ footers in the front row and a rear-facing infant seat in the back. The RX isn’t cutting it, unfortunately. There are two ways to approach this - buy a huge car with tons of second row legroom like an Expedition or Tahoe. Or, find something that has a set of center second row latch anchors, so the front seats can actually recline past the infant seat. I like option two since I don’t want to drive a huge boat. And the wait for an AWD Sienna is over a year, if anyone is wondering.
Turns out there aren’t many vehicles that have a pair of these center latches. Pilot, MDX, Q7 and the Jeep GCL (and the Expedition, but see above). So I went to check them out today. Oh boy. More to come.
First stop was the Pilot. Elite trim. It drives like a river boat. The transmission behavior was odd, with a really short first gear from a stop which lunges you unnaturally forward. Meh brakes. But it’s very practical and fits 8000 diaper boxes. Second sticker showed a $2k market adjustment, a 1200 ‘permaplate’ treatment, another $1500 Lo Jack charge etc. For sport, I decided to get their numbers. Their first offer, in addition to the above, included an extra extended warranty for $5k, and something else I can’t remember for $2k. We’re around $66K now. For a Pilot. What could they do to get my business today they asked? I mentioned that the two closest Acura dealers had a combined 45 Advance trim units in stock. With a MSRP of $2k less than his offer on a Pilot Elite. He looked uncomfortable. I next went to an Acura dealer.
So technically it is called a negotiable documentary fee. In reality it isn’t.
There is supposedly some legal precedent out there that says the dealer doesn’t have to charge it, but if they do they need to charge it to everyone who shops there and cannot charge more than the cop. Who knows if it’s true - but I’ve never seen a dealer negotiate it or choose not to charge it.
And WA sales tax is wild. In western WA usually 10-10.6% on cars. A bit less in eastern WA because county and city tax is lower. But, no income tax so I can’t complain too much.
Wyoming also doesn't have an income tax, and the state sales tax rate is just 4%.
But, you have to live in Wyoming.
There is supposedly some legal precedent out there that says the dealer doesn’t have to charge it, but if they do they need to charge it to everyone who shops there and cannot charge more than the cop. Who knows if it’s true - but I’ve never seen a dealer negotiate it or choose not to charge it.
I'm guessing this is a lie.. (not you, them) Lawyers probably suggest this, as who wants to get a charge of discrimination against a protected party? But, I'll posit that there is no actual legal standing for this line of BS.
But, once they get you thinking about anything other than the total cost, they've done their job.
* * *
I'm way behind so maybe this was addressed.
In Pennsylvania the doc fee maximum is set by law as it is in most, if not all, states. Of course, every dealer, that I am aware of, charges the max.
It is a negotiable fee and may not be pre-printed on the sales agreement.
@venture I agree, but I'll say in most states, there is no legal CAP to the doc fee. I can think of maybe a dozen, where it is capped. (PA, NY, OH, IN, CA, off the top of my head)
So technically it is called a negotiable documentary fee. In reality it isn’t.
There is supposedly some legal precedent out there that says the dealer doesn’t have to charge it, but if they do they need to charge it to everyone who shops there and cannot charge more than the cop. Who knows if it’s true - but I’ve never seen a dealer negotiate it or choose not to charge it.
And WA sales tax is wild. In western WA usually 10-10.6% on cars. A bit less in eastern WA because county and city tax is lower. But, no income tax so I can’t complain too much.
Wyoming also doesn't have an income tax, and the state sales tax rate is just 4%.
But, you have to live in Wyoming.
———————————————— So that means you’re a cowboy. They don’t need a car, only a horse. But I’m sure the state has a whopping tax on horses.
jmonroe
I see by your outfit that you are a cowboy I see by your outfit that you're a cowboy too We see by our outfits that we are both cowboys Get yourself an outfit and you can be a cowboy too
I decided to take Mrs. j out for our anniversary tonight even though it’s officially tomorrow. Went to a newer nicer type of restaurant at the local mall. I drove her Subie and it was waaay out of place. I parked in front of a Maserati (I saw two of those), then two Porches and at least a half dozen Benz and BMW’s. But I’m willing to bet the food we got was just as good as those guys. Won’t be doing that again for another year.
jmonroe
Congratulations and many more!
Behind every successful man is a good wife, and an amazed M-I-L.
@fintail - There was a feeding frenzy on these on Lease Hackr a few months ago. It was insanity!
I heard about that, giveaway leases on leftover or demo cars. I suspect the "bathtub" (as I call them) MB EVs are not meeting sales goals, although the recent Tesla charger news can't hurt.
@kyfdx said: @venture I agree, but I'll say in most states, there is no legal CAP to the doc fee. I can think of maybe a dozen, where it is capped. (PA, NY, OH, IN, CA, off the top of my head)
————————————————
From what I’ve heard of Florida, I’m surprised the dealers lobby group hasn’t had the state mandate a MINIMUM doc fee of $799 which must be preprinted on the sales sheet. Somebody down there is slacking.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis Ultimate just like jmonroe's. '18 Legacy Limited with 3.6R (Mrs. j's)
@oldfarmer50 said:
I was going to suggest a Honda Accord. Tons of rear seat leg room but I don’t know if they have the proper car seat latches he was talking about.
Also, that Honda dealer sounds like a place to avoid.
————————————————
It would be interesting to know if that was @isellhondas old store.
jmonroe
'15 Genesis Ultimate just like jmonroe's. '18 Legacy Limited with 3.6R (Mrs. j's)
Oh, the Acura dealer had second stickers galore on everything. $2k market adjustments on MDXs they have over 40 units of. Plus the pro pack with important necessities like wheel locks and edge guards for another $2k. $71k second sticker on a $65k MSRP. I will say the MDX drives better than the Pilot, and basically feels like a large car. After the drive, the sales guy immediately brought out the four square and also asked what they could do to earn my business. I replied sell under MSRP, which started a drama performance worthy of an award. I expected as much. But I wanted to drive a Q7 before getting into it, so I left him to rehearse.
@tifighter said:
Oh, the Acura dealer had second stickers galore on everything. $2k market adjustments on MDXs they have over 40 units of. Plus the pro pack with important necessities like wheel locks and edge guards for another $2k. $71k second sticker on a $65k MSRP. I will say the MDX drives better than the Pilot, and basically feels like a large car. After the drive, the sales guy immediately brought out the four square and also asked what they could do to earn my business. I replied sell under MSRP, which started a drama performance worthy of an award. I expected as much. But I wanted to drive a Q7 before getting into it, so I left him to rehearse.
You either hit Acura Seattle or Hinshaw’s hahahaha. Can’t even blame pandemic for this theater, they did this loooong before.
2025 Jetta GLI Autobahn, 2024 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4xE
@venture I agree, but I'll say in most states, there is no legal CAP to the doc fee. I can think of maybe a dozen, where it is capped. (PA, NY, OH, IN, CA, off the top of my head)
Comments
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
Doc fee is a dealer fee
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The concours is currently under a lightning protocol so we had to clear the field.
@qbrozen - a 1996 JDM Prelude:
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
EDIT: I'm wrong, they took the Magnette.
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2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
In CA, you pay the DMV for the title and plates through the dealer, and it's part of the contract. Dealer does the admin, and you pick up the plates from the dealer.
In CO, each county manages the issuance of title, registration and plates, so none of those costs are addressed through the dealer. You pay the county directly, and separately, for those items (plus the personal property tax, which is part of the registration fee).
TTL, to me, meant Tax, title, and license
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2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2024 Kia Sportage Hybrid SX Prestige
https://www7.nau.edu/itep/main/docs/training/webinar/airQlty/20-IntroMgRdDust-2/application_of_calcium_chloride.pdf
I'm not certain about the spray of used oil on the roads separately or along with the CaCl.
But I suspect that may have been done in some areas by contractors. I do recall spraying Dioxin on roads in Times Beach, Missouri, near the river and then flood waters contaminating the whole area.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
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So technically it is called a negotiable documentary fee. In reality it isn’t.
There is supposedly some legal precedent out there that says the dealer doesn’t have to charge it, but if they do they need to charge it to everyone who shops there and cannot charge more than the cop. Who knows if it’s true - but I’ve never seen a dealer negotiate it or choose not to charge it.
And WA sales tax is wild. In western WA usually 10-10.6% on cars. A bit less in eastern WA because county and city tax is lower. But, no income tax so I can’t complain too much.
But, you have to live in Wyoming.
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2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2024 Kia Sportage Hybrid SX Prestige
I'm guessing this is a lie.. (not you, them) Lawyers probably suggest this, as who wants to get a charge of discrimination against a protected party? But, I'll posit that there is no actual legal standing for this line of BS.
But, once they get you thinking about anything other than the total cost, they've done their job.
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That link is for somewhere in Canada.
Judging by the pickup truck in the pictures, it seems that you and @kyfdx have been reminiscing. 😂
Not that there is anything wrong with that…
Sorry for your troubles.
Sounds like you were done in by those “other bad drivers”. 😂
So that means you’re a cowboy. They don’t need a car, only a horse. But I’m sure the state has a whopping tax on horses.
jmonroe
'18 Legacy Limited with 3.6R (Mrs. j's)
In Indiana where there were still gravel roads in rural areas, the homeowners sometimes paid to have calcium chloride solution sprayed onto the road in front of their residence, e.g.. The calcium chloride is hygroscopic and attracted and held moisture, keeping down the amount of dust from the occasional passing cars.
I had to google that one. Definitely never heard of it, but I grew up next to a golf course 😂
https://www7.nau.edu/itep/main/docs/training/webinar/airQlty/20-IntroMgRdDust-2/application_of_calcium_chloride.pdf
I'm not certain about the spray of used oil on the roads separately or along with the CaCl.
But I suspect that may have been done in some areas by contractors. I do recall spraying Dioxin on roads in Times Beach, Missouri, near the river and then flood waters contaminating the whole area.
I lived on a gravel road in Indiana in the 60's. The county highway department would place used oil on the road in front of our house every summer. Until it soaked in, it was a mess. I still live in the same county, and fortunately, I haven't seen it used in many years.
The old license plates used to have an outline of a cowboy on a bucking bronco (not the Ford, the animal).
Speaking of which, "The Daddy of 'em All", Cheyenne Frontier Days, is starting next week.
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2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2024 Kia Sportage Hybrid SX Prestige
2021 VW Arteon SEL 4-motion, 2018 VW Passat SE w/tech, 2016 Audi Q5 Premium Plus w/tech
That link is for somewhere in Canada.
Judging by the pickup truck in the pictures, it seems that you and @kyfdx have been reminiscing. 😂
Not that there is anything wrong with that…
The year I graduated from high school. “78 is Great!” was the theme for the graduating class, lol.
2021 VW Arteon SEL 4-motion, 2018 VW Passat SE w/tech, 2016 Audi Q5 Premium Plus w/tech
It’s been a while but I’ve seen that license plate with the bucking bronco. Is it still being used?
jmonroe
'18 Legacy Limited with 3.6R (Mrs. j's)
I drove my own hot hatch (the Prius), and nearly rear ended the pickup in front of me when some idiot in front of the pickup abruptly did a u-turn in the middle of Versailles Road, where there was no intersection or turning lane. Almost confirmed the hard way that it needs new tires. They're at about 4 to 5/32" tread depth and don't seem to hydroplane, but traction for starting and stopping is poor. The manufacture date is almost five years ago, and I suspect the rubber has just hardened to the point where they break loose easily. The aggressive ABS/stability control on the Prius is also a compounding factor.
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When I lived in SC (1992 to 1997), I’m pretty sure the cap was $350 and I wasn’t close to the cap owning a 1980 Park Ave and a ‘95 Bonneville.
jmonroe
'18 Legacy Limited with 3.6R (Mrs. j's)
He was probably telling them he’s now a Benz convert.
You would have gotten his attention if you started tinkering under his hood.
jmonroe
'18 Legacy Limited with 3.6R (Mrs. j's)
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2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R / 2024 Kia Sportage Hybrid SX Prestige
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
Okay, I will next time!
I wonder whether this Poorsche won its class?
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
“This isn’t where I parked my car”
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I’m surprised that owners who spent a lot of time detailing their cars (themselves or a pro) would park their cars under a tree. I know this isn’t the sap time of the year but I wouldn’t do that. I’d much rather have it rained on than collecting who knows what from a tree overhead.
jmonroe
'18 Legacy Limited with 3.6R (Mrs. j's)
I decided to take Mrs. j out for our anniversary tonight even though it’s officially tomorrow. Went to a newer nicer type of restaurant at the local mall. I drove her Subie and it was waaay out of place. I parked in front of a Maserati (I saw two of those), then two Porches and at least a half dozen Benz and BMW’s. But I’m willing to bet the food we got was just as good as those guys. Won’t be doing that again for another year.
jmonroe
'18 Legacy Limited with 3.6R (Mrs. j's)
2021 VW Arteon SEL 4-motion, 2018 VW Passat SE w/tech, 2016 Audi Q5 Premium Plus w/tech
Mine: 1995 318ti Club Sport-2020 C43-1996 Speed Triple Challenge Cup Replica
Wife's: 2021 Sahara 4xe
Son's: 2018 330i xDrive
So today was car dealer Saturday. As some may recall, we are in need of a vehicle that can deal with two 6+ footers in the front row and a rear-facing infant seat in the back. The RX isn’t cutting it, unfortunately. There are two ways to approach this - buy a huge car with tons of second row legroom like an Expedition or Tahoe. Or, find something that has a set of center second row latch anchors, so the front seats can actually recline past the infant seat. I like option two since I don’t want to drive a huge boat. And the wait for an AWD Sienna is over a year, if anyone is wondering.
Turns out there aren’t many vehicles that have a pair of these center latches. Pilot, MDX, Q7 and the Jeep GCL (and the Expedition, but see above). So I went to check them out today. Oh boy. More to come.
25 NX 450h+ / 24 Sienna Plat AWD / 23 Civic Type-R / 21 Boxster GTS 4.0
First stop was the Pilot. Elite trim. It drives like a river boat. The transmission behavior was odd, with a really short first gear from a stop which lunges you unnaturally forward. Meh brakes. But it’s very practical and fits 8000 diaper boxes. Second sticker showed a $2k market adjustment, a 1200 ‘permaplate’ treatment, another $1500 Lo Jack charge etc. For sport, I decided to get their numbers. Their first offer, in addition to the above, included an extra extended warranty for $5k, and something else I can’t remember for $2k. We’re around $66K now. For a Pilot. What could they do to get my business today they asked? I mentioned that the two closest Acura dealers had a combined 45 Advance trim units in stock. With a MSRP of $2k less than his offer on a Pilot Elite. He looked uncomfortable. I next went to an Acura dealer.
25 NX 450h+ / 24 Sienna Plat AWD / 23 Civic Type-R / 21 Boxster GTS 4.0
Yep. So far sounds like driving and shopping for a Honda in Seattle.
Can’t wait to hear the Acura experience. It all depends which dealer you went to…
I read this and my mind immediately went to Charger (and, later, S90), but then you went a whole nother direction.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
I'm way behind so maybe this was addressed.
In Pennsylvania the doc fee maximum is set by law as it is in most, if not all, states. Of course, every dealer, that I am aware of, charges the max.
It is a negotiable fee and may not be pre-printed on the sales agreement.
2025 Forester Limited, 2024 Subaru Legacy Sport
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Great job spotting that rare 911 Solara conversion.
I see by your outfit that you're a cowboy too
We see by our outfits that we are both cowboys
Get yourself an outfit and you can be a cowboy too
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
I read this and my mind immediately went to Charger (and, later, S90), but then you went a whole nother direction.
I was going to suggest a Honda Accord. Tons of rear seat leg room but I don’t know if they have the proper car seat latches he was talking about.
Also, that Honda dealer sounds like a place to avoid.
2019 Kia Soul+, 2015 Mustang GT, 2013 Ford F-150, 2000 Chrysler Sebring convertible
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From what I’ve heard of Florida, I’m surprised the dealers lobby group hasn’t had the state mandate a MINIMUM doc fee of $799 which must be preprinted on the sales sheet. Somebody down there is slacking.
jmonroe
'18 Legacy Limited with 3.6R (Mrs. j's)
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It would be interesting to know if that was @isellhondas old store.
jmonroe
'18 Legacy Limited with 3.6R (Mrs. j's)
Oh, the Acura dealer had second stickers galore on everything. $2k market adjustments on MDXs they have over 40 units of. Plus the pro pack with important necessities like wheel locks and edge guards for another $2k. $71k second sticker on a $65k MSRP. I will say the MDX drives better than the Pilot, and basically feels like a large car. After the drive, the sales guy immediately brought out the four square and also asked what they could do to earn my business. I replied sell under MSRP, which started a drama performance worthy of an award. I expected as much. But I wanted to drive a Q7 before getting into it, so I left him to rehearse.
25 NX 450h+ / 24 Sienna Plat AWD / 23 Civic Type-R / 21 Boxster GTS 4.0
Yeah, I’m not skiing in that.
25 NX 450h+ / 24 Sienna Plat AWD / 23 Civic Type-R / 21 Boxster GTS 4.0
You either hit Acura Seattle or Hinshaw’s hahahaha. Can’t even blame pandemic for this theater, they did this loooong before.
2025 Forester Limited, 2024 Subaru Legacy Sport