Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

stickguy

New option for you Bradd. Since you like the Highlander other than it being a little bit too small inside, I just read the latest car and driver and they had a 1st test of the new Grand Highlander. Wider and longer, sized up to fully compete with the big Hyundai, etc. in the 3 row boat market. Sounds nice, plus the hybrid powertrain so better than normal for the class MPG.

just don't expect it to be really cheap. Or likely all that initially available.

oldfarmer50

ab348 said:

CNBC reporting today that used car prices took a 4.2% decline in June and are down 10.1% compared to this time last year.

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/07/10/manheim-used-car-prices-june.html

That doesn’t necessarily translate to lower prices on the lot. If the YT experts are to be believed dealers are still trying to get top dollar while getting cars for less at auction. The speculation is that they have a backlog of inventory bought at higher prices from several months ago they are trying to clear out at a profit while making a killing on new vehicles bought cheaper.

I haven’t seen any price drops for vehicles I’m interested in.

stickguy

Dealers never did figure out how supply and demand set market values impact them did they.

Once the inventory starts piling up on their lots and the floorplan payments are hurting, they will finally cut prices to move metal.

I am just glad I rode the tail end of the wave on my recent Maverick flip, and if I do buy anytime soon it will be a used toy. So I might finally be in a good position!

qbrozen

nyccarguy said:

@qbrozen - I just saw you post your ebay listing on LH. That car is in amazing shape. I never realized the car had so few miles on it. Have you had ANY bites on it?

Nothing real.

explorerx4

While I was getting the Explorer serviced yesterday, there was a trade of a Taurus on a truck plus another deal, someone was in to make arrangements to get a buy bid on a parent's car and someone else was changing their order to a 24, guessing a Maverick.
It's a small dealership and you wait in an area surrounded by the sales people.

stickguy

I love eavesdropping on deal discussions. Sometimes hard not to butt in!

pensfan83

stickguy said:

Dealers never did figure out how supply and demand set market values impact them did they.

Once the inventory starts piling up on their lots and the floorplan payments are hurting, they will finally cut prices to move metal.

I am just glad I rode the tail end of the wave on my recent Maverick flip, and if I do buy anytime soon it will be a used toy. So I might finally be in a good position!

After having minimal to no discounts 3.5 months ago my Acura dealer is now shockingly competitive with some of the brokers on LH so yeah, I think the pain of a bloated inventory started to get to them. Pricing is close enough to what some of the brokers on LH are offering that it's actually cheaper when you factor in any logistics costs and/or broker fee.

tifighter

No one has told these guys -

nyccarguy

stickguy said:

New option for you Bradd. Since you like the Highlander other than it being a little bit too small inside, I just read the latest car and driver and they had a 1st test of the new Grand Highlander. Wider and longer, sized up to fully compete with the big Hyundai, etc. in the 3 row boat market. Sounds nice, plus the hybrid powertrain so better than normal for the class MPG.

just don't expect it to be really cheap. Or likely all that initially available.

I just am not in the mood to spend $60K + 6% (or whatever the going rate is) APR.

nyccarguy

pensfan83 said:

stickguy said:

Dealers never did figure out how supply and demand set market values impact them did they.

Once the inventory starts piling up on their lots and the floorplan payments are hurting, they will finally cut prices to move metal.

I am just glad I rode the tail end of the wave on my recent Maverick flip, and if I do buy anytime soon it will be a used toy. So I might finally be in a good position!

After having minimal to no discounts 3.5 months ago my Acura dealer is now shockingly competitive with some of the brokers on LH so yeah, I think the pain of a bloated inventory started to get to them. Pricing is close enough to what some of the brokers on LH are offering that it's actually cheaper when you factor in any logistics costs and/or broker fee.

Did you buy out your RDX yet?

Dealers are getting more and more inventory every day. Holding on to it isn't going to be cheap. Some of the smaller dealers still have close to nothing.

I'm curious to see if the manufacturers are going to start throwing incentives their way or tell the dealers that since they've been selling cars above sticker for the last x number of months to take the money from their own pockets.

nyccarguy

kyfdx said:

nyccarguy said:

stickguy said:

isn't that the plug in hybrid? I thought those were booked up for over a year on orders?

They were for a while. Toyota is CRANKING cars out.

That is an Ally Bank lease that has the big incentive on the RAV4 Prime.

From what is posted on LH, ALLY is not a very consumer friendly bank in case (ahem) for instance if someone were to want to exit their lease early.

Out of curiosity, what might that incentive be?

nyccarguy

@stickguy

Dealers never did figure out how supply and demand set market values impact them did they.

Once the inventory starts piling up on their lots and the floorplan payments are hurting, they will finally cut prices to move metal.

They figured it out. They are going to ride the MSRP/MSRP +/Little to Minimal Discount Greed Wave for as long as they can. They'll cut jobs before they cut prices if they aren't getting any help from the manufacturer. Besides their floor plan interest, they have paid good money for some just ok cars that they just washed and threw out on their lot so they have something to sell. Even marking up money factors is more difficult. When the money factor was close to zero or 1%, they could jack up the interest rate which would add another $20-$30 a month and people wouldn't even notice. Or they'd jack up the money factor, call you to see if there was anything they could do to earn your business, take $20 off the monthly and people would be happy. Now a money factor bump on 6% could be a lot which would cause someone to rethink their vehicle choice.

I was texting back and forth with my friend today about used cars & possibly new cars for my son. There are some manufacturers starting to offer cheap-ish leases on some base model cars. One of his texts to me was: "Then you get to the dealer and they act like it is still December 2021 and there's no cars."

Michaell

nyccarguy said:

From what is posted on LH, ALLY is not a very consumer friendly bank in case (ahem) for instance if someone were to want to exit their lease early.

I know someone who is trying to get out of an ALLY lease and I can tell you they are not friendly about it.

nyccarguy

I don't think I can post videos, but a friend has been having an "issue" with his MB E53 AMG where the transmission seems to randomly decouple itself from the engine while he's driving. He's a bit of a hot shoe. His fun car is a Modified Supercharged Panoz Esparante. His wife asks him "what are you doing?" It is funny. The car problem isn't. He's already brought it into MB for it a few times.

kyfdx

nyccarguy said:

kyfdx said:

nyccarguy said:

stickguy said:

isn't that the plug in hybrid? I thought those were booked up for over a year on orders?

They were for a while. Toyota is CRANKING cars out.

That is an Ally Bank lease that has the big incentive on the RAV4 Prime.

From what is posted on LH, ALLY is not a very consumer friendly bank in case (ahem) for instance if someone were to want to exit their lease early.

Out of curiosity, what might that incentive be?

For NY, it's the $6500 + $500. From what I can tell, that incentive is not available through TFS.

roadburner

nyccarguy said:

I don't think I can post videos, but a friend has been having an "issue" with his MB E53 AMG where the transmission seems to randomly decouple itself from the engine while he's driving. He's a bit of a hot shoe. His fun car is a Modified Supercharged Panoz Esparante. His wife asks him "what are you doing?" It is funny. The car problem isn't. He's already brought it into MB for it a few times.

What year? So it's going into neutral while driving?

pensfan83

nyccarguy said:

pensfan83 said:

stickguy said:

Dealers never did figure out how supply and demand set market values impact them did they.

Once the inventory starts piling up on their lots and the floorplan payments are hurting, they will finally cut prices to move metal.

I am just glad I rode the tail end of the wave on my recent Maverick flip, and if I do buy anytime soon it will be a used toy. So I might finally be in a good position!

After having minimal to no discounts 3.5 months ago my Acura dealer is now shockingly competitive with some of the brokers on LH so yeah, I think the pain of a bloated inventory started to get to them. Pricing is close enough to what some of the brokers on LH are offering that it's actually cheaper when you factor in any logistics costs and/or broker fee.

Did you buy out your RDX yet?

Dealers are getting more and more inventory every day. Holding on to it isn't going to be cheap. Some of the smaller dealers still have close to nothing.

I'm curious to see if the manufacturers are going to start throwing incentives their way or tell the dealers that since they've been selling cars above sticker for the last x number of months to take the money from their own pockets.

Not yet.

nyccarguy

roadburner said:

nyccarguy said:

I don't think I can post videos, but a friend has been having an "issue" with his MB E53 AMG where the transmission seems to randomly decouple itself from the engine while he's driving. He's a bit of a hot shoe. His fun car is a Modified Supercharged Panoz Esparante. His wife asks him "what are you doing?" It is funny. The car problem isn't. He's already brought it into MB for it a few times.

What year? So it's going into neutral while driving?

yes. I'll send you the video.

oldfarmer50

tifighter said:

No one has told these guys -

Does it come with a chauffeur for that price?

stickguy

Should be a duffel of drugs in the well for that price

jmonroe1

@explorerx4 said:
While I was getting the Explorer serviced yesterday, there was a trade of a Taurus on a truck plus another deal, someone was in to make arrangements to get a buy bid on a parent's car and someone else was changing their order to a 24, guessing a Maverick.
It's a small dealership and you wait in an area surrounded by the sales people.

————————————————
Are you trying to say that someone held a gun to your head and made you listen?

jmonroe

explorerx4

@jmonroe1,
Those conversations were all taking place less than 10 fee from me.
There were no partitions, it was an open space.
Besides, I can read my Kindle and listen at the same time.

jmonroe1

@explorerx4 said:
@jmonroe1,
Those conversations were all taking place less than 10 fee from me.
There were no partitions, it was an open space.
Besides, I can read my Kindle and listen at the same time.

————————————————
Next time turn up your Kindle so you don’t get the urge to help the buyer like @stickguy does.

jmonroe

andres3

Michaell said:

nyccarguy said:

From what is posted on LH, ALLY is not a very consumer friendly bank in case (ahem) for instance if someone were to want to exit their lease early.

I know someone who is trying to get out of an ALLY lease and I can tell you they are not friendly about it.

But how much do they charge for a missing KEY FOB?

tjc78

The manufacturers will build the cars and stuff them down the dealer’s throat just like before this madness.

Discounts will come and I 100% believe car buying will eventually be back to pre-pandemic ways

They can’t handle not going after market share and they have the plant capacity so if the parts are available no reason not to build.

tjc78

@tifighter said:
No one has told these guys -

Buying that is worse than a drunken buy at Mecum of Barrett Jackson.

explorerx4

@tjc78,
The traditional domestic automaker have a lot of pension obligations.
They need to build and move units although some of that pressure is off due to raising MSRP's so much.

tjc78

@explorerx4 said:
@tjc78,
The traditional domestic automaker have a lot of pension obligations.
They need to build and move units although some of that pressure is off due to raising MSRP's so much.

Exactly. So many moving pieces to it all. Wasn’t GM on the hook years ago per the unions to keep one of the old school engine plants up and running?

ab348

Yeah. At least at the auctions you get a good time and all liquored up before overpaying.

andres3

How much does a moonroof add pig weight to a 2018 BMW M2? Otherwise found the perfect one, but this moonroof makes it imperfect.

explorerx4

Roadburner would a good one to reply to your question.
You have a hard time driving slow, so a heavy sunroof could help keep you out of speed trouble.

tifighter

@andres3 said:
How much does a moonroof add pig weight to a 2018 BMW M2? Otherwise found the perfect one, but this moonroof makes it imperfect.

Not a Comp, not the perfect one.

roadburner

andres3 said:

How much does a moonroof add pig weight to a 2018 BMW M2? Otherwise found the perfect one, but this moonroof makes it imperfect.

On an E30 M3 the sunroof added around 60 pounds, and in the worst possible place. I'd say the F87 M2's sunroof assembly weighs at least that much.

nyccarguy

@qbrozen - have you seen this one on marketplace? It’s a ‘94 with a 5-Speed & leather interior. 68K miles. Asking $7,500. Same exterior color as yours too.

qbrozen

I had not.
Lack of detail and warning lights on the dash, so no telling the condition.

oldfarmer50

tjc78 said:

The manufacturers will build the cars and stuff them down the dealer’s throat just like before this madness.

Discounts will come and I 100% believe car buying will eventually be back to pre-pandemic ways

They can’t handle not going after market share and they have the plant capacity so if the parts are available no reason not to build.

I think you’re right, it’s just a matter of when. My company is buying a tremendous number of new cars but are still so short of inventory that they are selling off a fraction of their old stock. What they do sell have almost double the mileage of pre pandemic cars. It may take years to build up stock to where they will be selling cars at their previous rate. Believe it or not, taking a million late model used cars out of the market continues to disrupt the supply chain.

sda

All of the vehicles lost by flooding, hurricanes, tornadoes and the like have added to the woes.

stickguy

They do. At least all the ones just lost in Vermont were all rust buckets.

nyccarguy

qbrozen said:

I had not.

Lack of detail and warning lights on the dash, so no telling the condition.

BuT iTz A 5-sPeEd

LOL

stickguy

That’s the most important part. I skip right over a slush box ad

nyccarguy

So still scouring around for used Outbacks. What's the deal (say it like Jerry Seinfeld) with the H6? I have seen a few where there isn't that much of a price premium and one where the person mentioned that since it is the 6 Cyl it doesn't have head gasket issues.

ronsteve

@nyccarguy said:
So still scouring around for used Outbacks. What's the deal (say it like Jerry Seinfeld) with the H6? I have seen a few where there isn't that much of a price premium and one where the person mentioned that since it is the 6 Cyl it doesn't have head gasket issues.

I was looking around at used Outbacks too, and spotted a 3.6R at Carmax. Their Autocheck history doesn’t show service records, but I found a workaround to look at carfax and BOOM! Head gasket, on a 2019 with 43k.

corvette

If it's showing the head gasket was replaced somewhat recently, at least you know it's been done. I'm surprised they hadn't rectified that issue by 2019.

nyccarguy

This 2008 Outback is freshly detailed and looks nice from the outside.

ab348

Subaru must source their head gaskets from the Dollar Store. Geez.

nyccarguy

ab348 said:

Subaru must source their head gaskets from the Dollar Store. Geez.

That actually is the problem. They used a different head gaskets made of different material for their Turbo Cars of that era/generation.

explorerx4

I'd think twice about going to New Britain.

ab348

sda said:

One observation from my dealer visit this morning, the VW dealer had a huge inventory of ID.4s. Are these not selling?

I saw this article today and was reminded of your post. You are correct, the ID.4 seems to be a slow seller. But it seems most EVs are proving to be a tough sell right now:

https://www.reuters.com/article/autos-electric-demand/analysis-slow-selling-evs-are-the-auto-industrys-new-headache-idUSL1N38W1K4

corvette

ab348 said:

Subaru must source their head gaskets from the Dollar Store. Geez.

Or $1.25 Tree. Pretty sure they have them next to the DVDs of movies nobody has heard of.

nyccarguy

explorerx4 said:

I'd think twice about going to New Britain.

with a few thousand in cash to purchase a car. Thanks! I didn't realize New Britain was THAT bad. Is it like Bridgeport?