Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

tjc78

There is really no easy answer these days to a kid’s first car. No one wants to spend a ton, since it’s most likely to get a little dinged up.

You don’t want to go too old, because you want at least some safety options…. You can’t lease anything “cheap” right now like my old Elantra at $210/ month or Michael’s Jetta.

So… you have to hope to get something that doesn’t put you in the poor house with repairs. That leads you to Toyota or Honda but then those hold their value well and you circle back to above.

If it were me I’d probably try and find something late 90s / early 2000s with a GM 3800 that was old person owned. Make sure the intake gaskets were done and the coolant changed. Those pretty much run a long time and parts are cheap.

corvette

tjc78 said:

You can’t lease anything “cheap” right now like my old Elantra at $210/ month or Michael’s Jetta.

I was thinking of suggesting a four-cylinder Tacoma lease, but doubt there are still doorbuster deals on those, either.

Michaell

I'd agree with @stickguy and try to find a domestic sedan - they are generally the cheapest to insure, and parts availability shouldn't be an issue should it need work.

Not sure how close this is to you, but I did a search under $10K and under 80,000 miles, and this popped up:

2002 Camry

nyccarguy

tjc78 said:

There is really no easy answer these days to a kid’s first car. No one wants to spend a ton, since it’s most likely to get a little dinged up.

You don’t want to go too old, because you want at least some safety options…. You can’t lease anything “cheap” right now like my old Elantra at $210/ month or Michael’s Jetta.

So… you have to hope to get something that doesn’t put you in the poor house with repairs. That leads you to Toyota or Honda but then those hold their value well and you circle back to above.

If it were me I’d probably try and find something late 90s / early 2000s with a GM 3800 that was old person owned. Make sure the intake gaskets were done and the coolant changed. Those pretty much run a long time and parts are cheap.

Those days are long gone. I was speaking about this casually with a friend who knows nothing about cars. She asked why we don't just lease him something cheap like a KIA. I told her, that's not how it works. Just because a car has a low sticker price doesn't translate into an inexpensive lease. I then told her that some cheap Kias would probably lease for not that much less than the Lexus UX she just got.

BTW, the Jetta is pretty competitive. My local dealer has quite a few S, Sport, SE, & SEL models under $27K. But again, its not going to lease like @Michaell or @stickguy 's respective Jettas.

nyccarguy

Michaell said:

I'd agree with @stickguy and try to find a domestic sedan - they are generally the cheapest to insure, and parts availability shouldn't be an issue should it need work.

Not sure how close this is to you, but I did a search under $10K and under 80,000 miles, and this popped up:

2002 Camry

That car has the 2.4L which seems to be somewhat problematic (if it is the same one as in the RAV4).

nyccarguy

corvette said:

tjc78 said:

You can’t lease anything “cheap” right now like my old Elantra at $210/ month or Michael’s Jetta.

I was thinking of suggesting a four-cylinder Tacoma lease, but doubt there are still doorbuster deals on those, either.

Don't think the though hasn't crossed my mind. Plus then we get a pickup truck back in the family. Might cost a little more than buying a cheap car, but the payments are spread out over 2 years or 3 years and I know for sure there won't be any issues as far as reliability goes.

andres3

nyccarguy said:

I know most if not, every used car is going to have its own set of problems/issues. With my son on the brink of getting his license, I’ve been scouring the internet for some used cars that might be good for a new driver. He’s got a job as a lifeguard at a swim club that we drive him back and forth to. He’s also going to be driving himself to school starting in September which will be less stressful for my wife who had to take him to school everyday about 15ish minutes north of us (2ish towns north), then fight the traffic to get to her job for to where she works which is 1 town south of us (1 hour plus round trip).

The 1st generation TSX like the ‘07 I posted apparently have issues with power steering pumps, transmissions, AC Compressors, & leaking timing cover gaskets.

I found a nice '09 RAV 4. Red/Tan Guts. I've watched videos that say to avoid the pre-'09 2nd generation like the plague. 150K miles. Spent the majority of it's like in upstate NY (no offense @oldfarmer50 & @stickguy ). Nothing major. Front sway bar end links go bad (they were replaced on this particular model). Leaking timing chain cover gaskets. Oxygen sensors, Ignition Coils, & EVAP Canister.

A friend has a 2012 Camry LE Hybrid with 112K miles on it that he's looking to get rid of because his oldest is getting ready to start his 2nd year of college and he paid off his mortgage. So he wants a new car! Transmission problems & AC Compressor Failures at or around the 150K mile range.

I know I've mentioned my father in law's Outback before, but I'm not sure my in-laws will be ready to part ways with it. Plus I haven't asked yet, but they'll most likely want way too much over what I'm willing to spend.

I don't want to spend $5,000 - $7,000 on a car that's going to need $2,000 in deferred maintenance and repairs.

You made me think of a business venture idea. Tunes for parents worried about power in their teenage sons/daughters hands. A detune if you will; make that Prelude feel like a '89' Civic HX/CX/DX?

Detune your 2.0T to drive like a 1.4T. Heck, if you can tune a car designed for 87 to run on 91 better, I think you could do the opposite too. No one is winning a stop light grand prix in my wife's Tiguan that runs on 87.

Michaell

nyccarguy said:

corvette said:

tjc78 said:

You can’t lease anything “cheap” right now like my old Elantra at $210/ month or Michael’s Jetta.

I was thinking of suggesting a four-cylinder Tacoma lease, but doubt there are still doorbuster deals on those, either.

Don't think the though hasn't crossed my mind. Plus then we get a pickup truck back in the family. Might cost a little more than buying a cheap car, but the payments are spread out over 2 years or 3 years and I know for sure there won't be any issues as far as reliability goes.

I'd talk with your insurance agent about that. 2 seat vehicles are expensive for teenaged drivers (at least, they were when my kids were that age).

I just did a little math. We bought my stepson a 1998 Geo Tracker as his first vehicle in 2002. 60,000 miles, owned by a retired GM exec, for $8000. That works out to about $13,500 today.

(sadly, this is also the vehicle he totaled 5 weeks later, sending his sister to the hospital via helicopter)

stickguy

IMO never, ever, ever send a nice car you car about to a HS parking lot. It will get trashed (body wise).

My suggestion is, if you know he is definitely going to college and likely to need a car at some point for that, is spend a little more to get something to use all the way through, maybe say a 2018 Malibu? Cobalt? Low teens at most cost, maybe 60k miles? Should get the 5-6 years out of that.

Or a beater to pass down to all 3 kids (like beige Betty!). But that can be a hassle.

My son did the 1 car deal. senior year we got him my sisters old TL, he had that 1 HS year, 4 years college (well, freshman year I had it) and his first year out of college.

Princess, 1 semester freshman year at college with the HS Volvo, then 3 years with the Jetta lease. Mostly because she had a much longer drive (and of course, she was my princess!)

nyccarguy

Michaell said:

nyccarguy said:

corvette said:

tjc78 said:

You can’t lease anything “cheap” right now like my old Elantra at $210/ month or Michael’s Jetta.

I was thinking of suggesting a four-cylinder Tacoma lease, but doubt there are still doorbuster deals on those, either.

Don't think the though hasn't crossed my mind. Plus then we get a pickup truck back in the family. Might cost a little more than buying a cheap car, but the payments are spread out over 2 years or 3 years and I know for sure there won't be any issues as far as reliability goes.

I'd talk with your insurance agent about that. 2 seat vehicles are expensive for teenaged drivers (at least, they were when my kids were that age).

I just did a little math. We bought my stepson a 1998 Geo Tracker as his first vehicle in 2002. 60,000 miles, owned by a retired GM exec, for $8000. That works out to about $13,500 today.

(sadly, this is also the vehicle he totaled 5 weeks later, sending his sister to the hospital via helicopter)

Definitely no 2 seat vehicle for him.

In CT they have a law on the books that he's not allowed to drive if there is anybody under 18 in the car for 6 months. I had a funny conversation with my neighbor about this the other day. He has twin sons that are 16, just got their license, and share a car. Technically one can drive to the activity (work, school, practice) and he has to drive the other one. That's not happening, I promise.

stickguy

I thought there were exceptions to that for family?

andres3

stickguy said:

I thought there were exceptions to that for family?

dumb law anyway. LEARN how to drive BEFORE driving alone; if you can't handle another under 18 passenger, you are NOT ready to drive.

28firefighter

I drove a 2001 Ford Taurus with the better Duratec motor in it in high school, college, and grad school. Would recommend something similar. Was reliable, cheap to maintain, and reasonably safe.

stickguy

A random example. A bunch of 2021s with 60k out there too. Did not realize these had the 1.5t motor. Might be better a little older with the 2.4NA

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/dea76fa9-0275-45a0-9f86-3c75dc0bcbbd/

stickguy

1.5t but 6 speed instead of CVT. Obviously I paid no attention to malibus.

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/3ad82b21-93bc-4d74-9a53-064715efbf02/?attribution_type=se_rnp

Had to go back to 2015 to find a boring 2.5/AT

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/1d23582c-134b-4af9-b653-211c0f33f4fd/?attribution_type=se_rnp

Odd that 2015-2020 asking prices barely change.

corvette

Here's an Accord with ABS and side airbags, but no VSA:
https://www.royalmotorsnj.com/details-2006-honda-accord_sedan-ex_automatic-used-1hgcm56786a171277.html

Civic:
https://www.royalmotorsnj.com/details-2012-honda-civic_sedan-4dr_automatic_lx-used-19xfb2f52ce345755.html

CR-V:
https://www.royalmotorsnj.com/details-2010-honda-cr~v-2wd_5dr_ex~l-used-5j6re3h74al048459.html

Chrysler 200:
https://www.royalmotorsnj.com/details-2016-chrysler-200-4dr_sedan_s_fwd-used-1c3cccbb8gn191916.html

roadburner

I think I ended up with about $7k in the 2002 my son drove. He kept it pristine.

au1994

All good, sage advice that has been dispensed.

The 328i jr drives has indeed taken a beating in the HS parking lot. I swear everyday he comes home with a new door ding or scratch.

Just keep your eyes peeled and work your friends and family network. Seriously, you never know when somebody is going to be looking to unload Aunt Sue's pristine 24k mile 2005 Camry. A GM sedan with the 3800 was another good suggestion. Not going to break you if something (and it will) breaks.

I too liked the idea of big, slow and safe for the first car but the BMW fell into our lap from my BiL. In the market we couldn't pass it up for $5k and he was meticulous about the maintenance. Its a little (ok a lot) quicker than I preferred and we all know how much M&R can run on an older German no matter how well it was taken care of.

Its kind of a fun process but a little sad for me. Jr and I spent a lot of time in the car together going to and fro. A majority of that ends when they have their own wheels.

stickguy

If my father ever stops driving I’ll have a very low mile, pre-dinged, 2020 Sentra to dispose of.

stickguy

corvette said:

Here's an Accord with ABS and side airbags, but no VSA:
https://www.royalmotorsnj.com/details-2006-honda-accord_sedan-ex_automatic-used-1hgcm56786a171277.html

Civic:
https://www.royalmotorsnj.com/details-2012-honda-civic_sedan-4dr_automatic_lx-used-19xfb2f52ce345755.html

CR-V:
https://www.royalmotorsnj.com/details-2010-honda-cr~v-2wd_5dr_ex~l-used-5j6re3h74al048459.html

Chrysler 200:
https://www.royalmotorsnj.com/details-2016-chrysler-200-4dr_sedan_s_fwd-used-1c3cccbb8gn191916.html

My old neighborhood dealer! Good people, nice cars.

Civic is nice but too many miles. Accord, too old. The 200 might be the best of the bunch but that CRV could run forever. Price is not terrible if no needs.

pensfan83

My siblings and myself had a '90 Accord (me), '08 Focus (brother), and '95 Villager (sister) as our first cars. They all served their purpose very well and in the case of the Villager when it decided it had enough it set itself on fire.

andres3

That 5-speed in the Accord would be my only worry. Same transmission that grenaded itself if attached to a V6. Can it hit 200K in a 4 cylinder.... maybe...probably.

I'm not sure if I bashed Chrysler/Neon in 2023 yet, so.......drumroll.....

Their transmission grenaded itself in 60K miles with a 132 HP 4-cylinder non-turbo motor.

Meanwhile, I've compiled 300K+ flawless miles using VW/Audi DSG's.

xwesx

nyccarguy said:

I know most if not, every used car is going to have its own set of problems/issues. With my son on the brink of getting his license, I’ve been scouring the internet for some used cars that might be good for a new driver. He’s got a job as a lifeguard at a swim club that we drive him back and forth to. He’s also going to be driving himself to school starting in September which will be less stressful for my wife who had to take him to school everyday about 15ish minutes north of us (2ish towns north), then fight the traffic to get to her job for to where she works which is 1 town south of us (1 hour plus round trip).

I don't want to spend $5,000 - $7,000 on a car that's going to need $2,000 in deferred maintenance and repairs.

How about a 2000 Honda Prelude? I know there's a red one that might be locally available, at least seasonally.

I think the Outback is a really good idea to at least explore. And, if not that one, then perhaps a Gen3 Outback or Forester on the private sale market. You might need to put some reconditioning into it (like new brakes, maybe wheel bearings, other minor stuff), but a $4K hooptie with an extra $2K in reconditioning will make for a reliable daily for years to come for your son (and his siblings, perhaps!).

Sandman6472

I inherited my grandpa's '67 Olds Cutlass Supreme in October of my senior year. Since my mom gifted her folks with it when new & granny couldn't drive, my dad threw me the keys & said use it for 12th grade. Was pretty safe back then and it stayed in the family & my college years though it went through a couple of color changes. Besides a leaky back window, was still going strong when it got traded in 1977 for that awful '76 Izuzu Opel. Should've just kept the Cutlass a couple more years looking back!
I was lucky in that my twin had no desire to even get his license for many years so all I had to do was make sure he got places he needed to be. I also got to take granny shopping on the weekends but a small price to pay to have some wheels at my disposal when needed. It did sit home for my freshman year of college & the folks used it as they only had one vehicle by then. But from what I recall, it was driven very rarely & sat in their driveway most of the time. Took it to college my last three years there & was thankful to have it.

andres3

Are you all aware there are legislators in CA trying to help create a Gov't MONEY GRAB by allowing speed cameras in Los Angeles? Of course, we all know if it passes and is allowed in LA, it'll soon spread like a virus to other cities and hometowns.

https://saferstreetsla.org/speed-camera-petition/?utm_campaign=2023 Member Alerts&utm_medium=email&_hsmi=264709450&_hsenc=p2ANqtz-8abL1umiO2bu_OMv_jXPi4bXHl_diUPZcPITbrOu1r6gYm3930uD-NRVZqPmwfOnjbG1erEwtEC7l43cAA-8LFrywNpA&utm_content=264709450&utm_source=hs_email

nyccarguy

xwesx said:

nyccarguy said:

I know most if not, every used car is going to have its own set of problems/issues. With my son on the brink of getting his license, I’ve been scouring the internet for some used cars that might be good for a new driver. He’s got a job as a lifeguard at a swim club that we drive him back and forth to. He’s also going to be driving himself to school starting in September which will be less stressful for my wife who had to take him to school everyday about 15ish minutes north of us (2ish towns north), then fight the traffic to get to her job for to where she works which is 1 town south of us (1 hour plus round trip).

I don't want to spend $5,000 - $7,000 on a car that's going to need $2,000 in deferred maintenance and repairs.

How about a 2000 Honda Prelude? I know there's a red one that might be locally available, at least seasonally.

I think the Outback is a really good idea to at least explore. And, if not that one, then perhaps a Gen3 Outback or Forester on the private sale market. You might need to put some reconditioning into it (like new brakes, maybe wheel bearings, other minor stuff), but a $4K hooptie with an extra $2K in reconditioning will make for a reliable daily for years to come for your son (and his siblings, perhaps!).

Aren't those the models with the head gasket issues?

nyccarguy

@corvette said:
Here's an Accord with ABS and side airbags, but no VSA:
https://www.royalmotorsnj.com/details-2006-honda-accord_sedan-ex_automatic-used-1hgcm56786a171277.html

Civic:
https://www.royalmotorsnj.com/details-2012-honda-civic_sedan-4dr_automatic_lx-used-19xfb2f52ce345755.html

CR-V:
https://www.royalmotorsnj.com/details-2010-honda-cr~v-2wd_5dr_ex~l-used-5j6re3h74al048459.html

Chrysler 200:
https://www.royalmotorsnj.com/details-2016-chrysler-200-4dr_sedan_s_fwd-used-1c3cccbb8gn191916.html

Isn’t this the place that @stickguy used to browse at all the time?

corvette

Don’t worry, I’ve got a line on a cheap Accord!

And yes, I think that Royal Motors place is a @stickguy favorite.

kyfdx

If I'm looking for a deal in a used car, I'd just skip over Honda and Toyota

ab348

stickguy said:

1.5t but 6 speed instead of CVT. Obviously I paid no attention to malibus.

I thought I knew a bit about them but I read an article today that taught me 2 things I didn’t know.

First news item for me was that for 2023 the Premier trim level and the 2.0 turbo engine went away, so all you can get is the 1.5L.

Second news item is that for the upcoming 2024 model year, the 9-speed automatic gets replaced with a CVT.

explorerx4

Seems a bit over priced but super low miles.
Must have been traded in on a Lincoln because that is the same parking spot my wife parked in when we traded in her MKC.
https://www.nickmayerwestlake.com/used-Avon-2018-Ford-Explorer-XLT-1FM5K8D82JGC82760?utm_source=iHeartMedia&utm_medium=XVIN_CC&utm_campaign=vin-marketing&utm_content=XVIN0609&cto_pld=oPnLLl-dAQDcM813nt5N0Q
I'm going to seriously look next month for something new.
We have another road trip coming up a the end of the month.
No way to break in a new vehicle by then.

stickguy

yes, that was in my town in NJ and I stopped in on a regular basis to browse. They actually kept all their cars inside the buildings.

xwesx

nyccarguy said:

Aren't those the models with the head gasket issues?

Officially, no, these aren't the ones. Unofficially, all Subarus have HG issues eventually. You don't buy one of these unless it's had its gaskets replaced already. Frankly, most of them have.

xwesx

explorerx4 said:

Seems a bit over priced but super low miles.
Must have been traded in on a Lincoln because that is the same parking spot my wife parked in when we traded in her MKC.
https://www.nickmayerwestlake.com/used-Avon-2018-Ford-Explorer-XLT-1FM5K8D82JGC82760?utm_source=iHeartMedia&utm_medium=XVIN_CC&utm_campaign=vin-marketing&utm_content=XVIN0609&cto_pld=oPnLLl-dAQDcM813nt5N0Q
I'm going to seriously look next month for something new.
We have another road trip coming up a the end of the month.
No way to break in a new vehicle by then.

Looks like my mother's car. It's pretty nice, though, all told.

nyccarguy

@xwesx said:
Officially, no, these aren't the ones. Unofficially, all Subarus have HG issues eventually. You don't buy one of these unless it's had its gaskets replaced already. Frankly, most of them have.

What year Outback/Foresters qualify for 3rd Generation?

explorerx4

For sale on C&B
https://carsandbids.com/auctions/9QZOoM4n/2002-ford-f-150-harley-davidson-edition
My kids requested to get their picture taken in one when I bought my 02 Explorer.

jmonroe1

@stickguy said:
If my father ever stops driving I’ll have a very low mile, pre-dinged, 2020 Sentra to dispose of.

————————————————
Pretty sure @oldfarmer50 just bookmarked that post.

jmonroe

nyccarguy

Low miles and a 5 Speed

https://www.carcentralauto.com/inventory/subaru/outback/346788/

explorerx4

Looks like the oil was changed every 10k.
Better than no records.

stickguy

did not realize you wanted a manual for him. I certainly approve! I miss having one still.

New England Subaru? Yeah, I want that on a lift to start poking with a screw driver at the frame. but if it is solid nice looking car.

nyccarguy

@stickguy said:
did not realize you wanted a manual for him. I certainly approve! I miss having one still.

New England Subaru? Yeah, I want that on a lift to start poking with a screw driver at the frame. but if it is solid nice looking car.

That makes 2 of us;)-

I saw on the carfax that rustproofing was applied 2x.

stickguy

FLuid film? Need that up there.

South Main auto recently did a repair job on an Outback. Had to replace the front subframe because it failed inspection (big holes through the metal). I believe it was a 2013 model year. Absurd what salt does to a car.

xwesx

nyccarguy said:

What year Outback/Foresters qualify for 3rd Generation?

Outbacks are 2005-2009. Foresters are 2009-2013.

xwesx

stickguy said:

FLuid film? Need that up there.

South Main auto recently did a repair job on an Outback. Had to replace the front subframe because it failed inspection (big holes through the metal). I believe it was a 2013 model year. Absurd what salt does to a car.

So insane. I couldn't believe how rusty the undercarriage of our 2018 Crosstrek was when I put the new struts and springs on it last year. It was only a few years old at the time with about 50,000 miles! Granted, it's not "bad" rust, just all surface stuff, making the bolts and whatnot difficult to work.

oldfarmer50

nyccarguy said:

I know most if not, every used car is going to have its own set of problems/issues. With my son on the brink of getting his license, I’ve been scouring the internet for some used cars that might be good for a new driver. He’s got a job as a lifeguard at a swim club that we drive him back and forth to. He’s also going to be driving himself to school starting in September which will be less stressful for my wife who had to take him to school everyday about 15ish minutes north of us (2ish towns north), then fight the traffic to get to her job for to where she works which is 1 town south of us (1 hour plus round trip).

The 1st generation TSX like the ‘07 I posted apparently have issues with power steering pumps, transmissions, AC Compressors, & leaking timing cover gaskets.

I found a nice '09 RAV 4. Red/Tan Guts. I've watched videos that say to avoid the pre-'09 2nd generation like the plague. 150K miles. Spent the majority of it's like in upstate NY (no offense @oldfarmer50 & @stickguy ). Nothing major. Front sway bar end links go bad (they were replaced on this particular model). Leaking timing chain cover gaskets. Oxygen sensors, Ignition Coils, & EVAP Canister.

A friend has a 2012 Camry LE Hybrid with 112K miles on it that he's looking to get rid of because his oldest is getting ready to start his 2nd year of college and he paid off his mortgage. So he wants a new car! Transmission problems & AC Compressor Failures at or around the 150K mile range.

I know I've mentioned my father in law's Outback before, but I'm not sure my in-laws will be ready to part ways with it. Plus I haven't asked yet, but they'll most likely want way too much over what I'm willing to spend.

I don't want to spend $5,000 - $7,000 on a car that's going to need $2,000 in deferred maintenance and repairs.

Have a really close look underneath that car that lived in upstate. Unless the owner took it to Florida in the winter it’s likely to be crusty after 14 years.

oldfarmer50

Michaell said:

I'd agree with @stickguy and try to find a domestic sedan - they are generally the cheapest to insure, and parts availability shouldn't be an issue should it need work.

Not sure how close this is to you, but I did a search under $10K and under 80,000 miles, and this popped up:

2002 Camry

I paid less than that 3 years ago for my son’s 2010 Fusion with 1/3 the miles. Toyota might last longer but you pay a premium compared to a Ford or Chevy.

oldfarmer50

jmonroe1 said:

@stickguy said:

If my father ever stops driving I’ll have a very low mile, pre-dinged, 2020 Sentra to dispose of.

————————————————

Pretty sure @oldfarmer50 just bookmarked that post.

jmonroe

You laugh but I’ve bought 3 cars that were previously owned by elderly drivers and had good luck with all of them. Low mileage because they didn’t drive much and rust free because they didn’t drive in the winter at all.

I’m not sure I have any use for a Sentra no matter how good it is.

qbrozen

@nyccarguy said:
Low miles and a 5 Speed

https://www.carcentralauto.com/inventory/subaru/outback/346788/

So $9k plus the inevitable head gasket job. A bit over budget, no?

stickguy

my daughter wanted me to talk him out of it last year when she was looking to get a car to park in Boston. Would have been perfect for that job. I don't want the thing (though it would make a great winter beater to take salt duty) since I have nowhere to park it (yet) and can barely keep the 2 I have exercised.

maybe I could convince the wife to sell her Acura and drive a Sentra instead!

nyccarguy

qbrozen said:

@nyccarguy said:

Low miles and a 5 Speed

https://www.carcentralauto.com/inventory/subaru/outback/346788/

So $9k plus the inevitable head gasket job. A bit over budget, no?

Yes. Plus it is a BASE model.