Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

Michaell

@nyccarguy said:
Thinking out loud about what to do with my current automotive fleet.

We've got the '22 Jeep Wrangler 4Xe which is fun, quite economical, & the perfect size for my 17 year old. At $508 per month it seems like a good price to be paying for a $60K+ vehicle. The downside is the fact that I took out a 10K per year lease (30K total) and am currently sitting at 31,500. Also the personal property tax for the year is close to $1000 that I have to pay on or before August 1. I never planned on riding out the full lease. Sometime between now and March (the 2 year mark) would seem like a good time to try and ditch it somehow (trade in or 3rd party sale).

Next up is out '22 Highlander. So much to love about it like the strong V6 and comfort for 2-4 people. 42,000 miles and we recently had new Cross Climate tires installed at 36K miles. Financed at 2.49% for 60 months. Current payment is $848 per month. We only owe a little more than $30K on it and it will be 2 years old at the end of February. Cons on the Highlander besides the high monthly are the space when the 5 of us do travel together.

3rd, but finally not least is the '23 Tacoma SR. As crazy as it sounds, this has turned out to be the perfect commuter vehicle for me. The $350 per month payment is palatable. It is comfortable, rough road surfaces aren't a problem, it does hustle when called upon, and fuel economy isn't terrible. It is tough, well built, & has a wonderful "commanding" view of the road.

I don't want a different 3 row SUV. Assuming I can get out of each car free & clear (the Wrangler might be borderline). Maybe a Tundra would give me the interior space I need as well as plenty of cargo space in the bed. Could maybe get my wife a Camry or Accord. Then what do I do for my son?

What outcome(s) are you looking for?

Reduce the spend, get something more fuel efficient, or are we talking change for the sake of change?

stickguy

@Michaell said:

@nyccarguy said:
Thinking out loud about what to do with my current automotive fleet.

We've got the '22 Jeep Wrangler 4Xe which is fun, quite economical, & the perfect size for my 17 year old. At $508 per month it seems like a good price to be paying for a $60K+ vehicle. The downside is the fact that I took out a 10K per year lease (30K total) and am currently sitting at 31,500. Also the personal property tax for the year is close to $1000 that I have to pay on or before August 1. I never planned on riding out the full lease. Sometime between now and March (the 2 year mark) would seem like a good time to try and ditch it somehow (trade in or 3rd party sale).

Next up is out '22 Highlander. So much to love about it like the strong V6 and comfort for 2-4 people. 42,000 miles and we recently had new Cross Climate tires installed at 36K miles. Financed at 2.49% for 60 months. Current payment is $848 per month. We only owe a little more than $30K on it and it will be 2 years old at the end of February. Cons on the Highlander besides the high monthly are the space when the 5 of us do travel together.

3rd, but finally not least is the '23 Tacoma SR. As crazy as it sounds, this has turned out to be the perfect commuter vehicle for me. The $350 per month payment is palatable. It is comfortable, rough road surfaces aren't a problem, it does hustle when called upon, and fuel economy isn't terrible. It is tough, well built, & has a wonderful "commanding" view of the road.

I don't want a different 3 row SUV. Assuming I can get out of each car free & clear (the Wrangler might be borderline). Maybe a Tundra would give me the interior space I need as well as plenty of cargo space in the bed. Could maybe get my wife a Camry or Accord. Then what do I do for my son?

What outcome(s) are you looking for?

Reduce the spend, get something more fuel efficient, or are we talking change for the sake of change?

Did you really have to ask that?

Though the jeep is probably to get out of a lease that only made sense if it was going to be an early flip. Sound like that well might have run dry. Same with mavericks apparently!

au1994

28firefighter said:

I think you're going to have a tough time flipping the Wrangler without spending a lot. Values have dropped dramatically on these and the market is a bit flooded. @qbrozen can tell you best, for sure, but you may be better riding that one out and limiting the mileage.

FWIW Carvana hit mine at 37,900 a few weeks ago. 24k miles.

28firefighter

I'm guessing his buyout is in the mid 40s.

nyccarguy

@pensfan83 said:
Mass transit is one's friend.

Not in my case. Mass Transit is neither cheap nor convenient for me.

jmonroe1

stickguy said:

@jmonroe1 said:

————————————————

Here we go again. But a good excuse to build than extra garage sooner than later.

jmonroe

Definitely need the garage first. Though by the time that is paid for the budget might cover a rusted out Miata with a blown engine!

————————————————
Our poster buddy @qbrozen should be able to do better than that for you. Maybe he can offer you a choice of either a rusted out one or a blown engine, but not both.

jmonroe

ab348

Auto News is reporting that Ford is telling suppliers that their plans for F-150 Lightning production for calendar year 2024 is going to be half of the number it was for 2023.

oldfarmer50

stickguy said:

@Michaell said:

@nyccarguy said:

Thinking out loud about what to do with my current automotive fleet.

We've got the '22 Jeep Wrangler 4Xe which is fun, quite economical, & the perfect size for my 17 year old. At $508 per month it seems like a good price to be paying for a $60K+ vehicle. The downside is the fact that I took out a 10K per year lease (30K total) and am currently sitting at 31,500. Also the personal property tax for the year is close to $1000 that I have to pay on or before August 1. I never planned on riding out the full lease. Sometime between now and March (the 2 year mark) would seem like a good time to try and ditch it somehow (trade in or 3rd party sale).

Next up is out '22 Highlander. So much to love about it like the strong V6 and comfort for 2-4 people. 42,000 miles and we recently had new Cross Climate tires installed at 36K miles. Financed at 2.49% for 60 months. Current payment is $848 per month. We only owe a little more than $30K on it and it will be 2 years old at the end of February. Cons on the Highlander besides the high monthly are the space when the 5 of us do travel together.

3rd, but finally not least is the '23 Tacoma SR. As crazy as it sounds, this has turned out to be the perfect commuter vehicle for me. The $350 per month payment is palatable. It is comfortable, rough road surfaces aren't a problem, it does hustle when called upon, and fuel economy isn't terrible. It is tough, well built, & has a wonderful "commanding" view of the road.

I don't want a different 3 row SUV. Assuming I can get out of each car free & clear (the Wrangler might be borderline). Maybe a Tundra would give me the interior space I need as well as plenty of cargo space in the bed. Could maybe get my wife a Camry or Accord. Then what do I do for my son?

What outcome(s) are you looking for?

Reduce the spend, get something more fuel efficient, or are we talking change for the sake of change?

Did you really have to ask that?

Though the jeep is probably to get out of a lease that only made sense if it was going to be an early flip. Sound like that well might have run dry. Same with mavericks apparently!

I drove several 4xe Jeeps today. If the rental companies are getting them there must be a glut. No Mavericks yet though.

pensfan83

@nyccarguy said:

@pensfan83 said:
Mass transit is one's friend.

Not in my case. Mass Transit is neither cheap nor convenient for me.

That's fair and makes sense if the primary benefits aren't there. But there's also a lot of people for which it would work but they inexplicably choose to sit in gridlock and pay up to 5X the cost to drive into the city...and that's just factoring in parking.

mlevine

@nyccarguy
I would keep the tacoma as it should hold its value especially now that the new tacoma is a 4 cylinder. I think a tundra will be alot of money and the inventory availability is low. The highlander is a great vehicle but your payment is high. Check and see what your vehicle is worth. If positive equity can use downpayment on a low mileage preowned vehicle coming off a 3 year lease and may be able to get low financing as rates appear to be improving. Monthly payment may be better than the $848 a month. The wrangler is a problem. See what the over mileage fee is and also look for the pull ahead program with Jeep. They may waive extra mileage to lease another vehicle, but I would consider 12K to 15K miles a year.

nyccarguy

@Michaell said:

@nyccarguy said:
Thinking out loud about what to do with my current automotive fleet.

We've got the '22 Jeep Wrangler 4Xe which is fun, quite economical, & the perfect size for my 17 year old. At $508 per month it seems like a good price to be paying for a $60K+ vehicle. The downside is the fact that I took out a 10K per year lease (30K total) and am currently sitting at 31,500. Also the personal property tax for the year is close to $1000 that I have to pay on or before August 1. I never planned on riding out the full lease. Sometime between now and March (the 2 year mark) would seem like a good time to try and ditch it somehow (trade in or 3rd party sale).

Next up is out '22 Highlander. So much to love about it like the strong V6 and comfort for 2-4 people. 42,000 miles and we recently had new Cross Climate tires installed at 36K miles. Financed at 2.49% for 60 months. Current payment is $848 per month. We only owe a little more than $30K on it and it will be 2 years old at the end of February. Cons on the Highlander besides the high monthly are the space when the 5 of us do travel together.

3rd, but finally not least is the '23 Tacoma SR. As crazy as it sounds, this has turned out to be the perfect commuter vehicle for me. The $350 per month payment is palatable. It is comfortable, rough road surfaces aren't a problem, it does hustle when called upon, and fuel economy isn't terrible. It is tough, well built, & has a wonderful "commanding" view of the road.

I don't want a different 3 row SUV. Assuming I can get out of each car free & clear (the Wrangler might be borderline). Maybe a Tundra would give me the interior space I need as well as plenty of cargo space in the bed. Could maybe get my wife a Camry or Accord. Then what do I do for my son?

What outcome(s) are you looking for?

Reduce the spend, get something more fuel efficient, or are we talking change for the sake of change?

Fuel efficiency isn’t top on my list. Maybe slightly reduce spending, but more shuffling around to possibly make things more comfortable passenger room.

corvette

It's interesting that Hoovie's new Definitely Not-a-car YouTube morning show channel is averaging about 50% automotive or transportation related topics.

Sandman6472

I do remember that public transport was dismal in the area of Westchester that we lived in. We could catch the bus to Ossining or White Plains and had to go to the Scarborough station to get the train into Grand Central. I did that back in 1969. Went to see camp friends in Fairfield for a weekend. My mom dropped me off in Stamford and I took the train to Bridgeport on a Friday afternoon. Sunday afternoon, caught the train to Grand Central & then the commuter train up to Scarborough where someone had to pick me up. It was a long process!!!

Awful down here in South Florida also. One really does need an automobile to get around.

Sandman6472

Still haven't driven the new addition but happy to say, both vehicles are back in the garage...finally. So, for the time being, matters of the vehicular kind are done...for now. Filled my tank back up to full, so not seriously going to look for anything quite yet. I might do some looking when the wife goes to St. Augustine on the 22nd. Would rather do it alone so I can concentrate on things and anything I test, will have to be brought home for the "garage test" as we like to call it. Been doing it since we moved in, always bring anything that might have an issue fitting home for a test. It becomes very obvious very quickly if something will fit or not. And if not, it's stricken from the short list. Not going to buy a vehicle that won't fit in the garage as we use our garage for it's intended purpose unlike all our neighbors.

I do like buying in December so we shall see how this all plays out. But truthfully, think it'll be another year before any move is made...might as well get a ten year run with the Golf.

tjc78

@nyccarguy
In my opinion I think you need to solve your family vehicle situation for trips first and see how bad that hits the wallet. To me it seems you need something like a Tahoe or Suburban to get the job done so everyone is comfortable. A minivan would do, but assuming that’s a non-starter as it is for my family.

From there I would deal with the 4XE and lease something for your drive to the store. I’d share with your son to keep some of the miles off and split duty with the Taco.

stickguy

I assume son is a junior now? If so his driving is. Short term issue assuming not looking to take a car to college?

nyccarguy

tjc78 said:

@nyccarguy

In my opinion I think you need to solve your family vehicle situation for trips first and see how bad that hits the wallet. To me it seems you need something like a Tahoe or Suburban to get the job done so everyone is comfortable. A minivan would do, but assuming that’s a non-starter as it is for my family.

From there I would deal with the 4XE and lease something for your drive to the store. I’d share with your son to keep some of the miles off and split duty with the Taco.

If I had to do it over again, I'd get a Sienna. I'd love a Suburban, but they are ungodly expensive and don't lease well. Plus I know for certain my wife would be dead set against a Suburban. I have no problem riding out the 4Xe as my son drives it about 25 miles per day instead of the 65 miles I drive. Switching vehicles with him isn't an option. Part of his Autism is that it takes him about 2 weeks to get used to something new. Its better for us if he sticks with 1 vehicle. The Tacoma is just too big for him.

nyccarguy

stickguy said:

I assume son is a junior now? If so his driving is. Short term issue assuming not looking to take a car to college?

He is a senior. He will not be taking a car to college. Most schools we looked at don't allow cars on campus Freshman year.

tjc78

@nyccarguy said:
If I had to do it over again, I'd get a Sienna. I'd love a Suburban, but they are ungodly expensive and don't lease well. Plus I know for certain my wife would be dead set against a Suburban. I have no problem riding out the 4Xe as my son drives it about 25 miles per day instead of the 65 miles I drive. Switching vehicles with him isn't an option. Part of his Autism is that it takes him about 2 weeks to get used to something new. Its better for us if he sticks with 1 vehicle. The Tacoma is just too big for him.

Gotcha .. all makes sense. Yeah the truck based SUVs are just out of control on the prices. I loved the Wagoneer I rented last year in Vegas, but can’t justify the price.

Doesn’t Chrysler have a plug in minivan? I wonder if they lease well with the tax credit. I’ve never looked into it.

stickguy

Time flies. In that case riding out the jeep makes a lot of sense. Try and unload it in August when he hits school if it is going to be extraneous then. And the taco seems to be working for you.

So that just leaves the Highlander. Is it really that bad? Or move if a little tight that once a year you pack everyone in but livable? Car too carries and hitch baskets help with cargo capacity. Heck, rent a small U-Haul trailer if you really have too much stuff! I do know also that once kids hit college they tend to travel less with you. At least mine did.

Could look at the minivan options again to cash any equity (is there any?) out of the Highlander. A bigger enough SUV to make a useful difference is probably going to be very expensive. Maybe the newer Hyundai model? Siennas are nice, just pricey. Odyssey is more outdated but still very functional. Zero clue how any of them lease.

nyccarguy

stickguy said:

Time flies. In that case riding out the jeep makes a lot of sense. Try and unload it in August when he hits school if it is going to be extraneous then. And the taco seems to be working for you.

So that just leaves the Highlander. Is it really that bad? Or move if a little tight that once a year you pack everyone in but livable? Car too carries and hitch baskets help with cargo capacity. Heck, rent a small U-Haul trailer if you really have too much stuff! I do know also that once kids hit college they tend to travel less with you. At least mine did.

Could look at the minivan options again to cash any equity (is there any?) out of the Highlander. A bigger enough SUV to make a useful difference is probably going to be very expensive. Maybe the newer Hyundai model? Siennas are nice, just pricey. Odyssey is more outdated but still very functional. Zero clue how any of them lease.

It isn't just for 1x a year road trips. Going to see grandparents (1.5-2 hrs one way) on holidays. Again, my son will hopefully be going away to college next year. No need to make any rash vehicular decisions... Oh wait, that's what this board is for.

stickguy

There are 5 of you, right? I’m gonna guess that a drive that far to visit the folks is not a big hassle in the Highlander. A week Long Beach vacation I can see, but that’s what the trailer idea is for!

When I was a kid and all 3 of us were home (I’m the youngest spaced every 3 years so it went on for a while) we traveled 4 hours to Vermont to visit grandparents and took summer driving vacations. In a Volvo 144. Different times I guess, maybe we traveled lighter!

oldfarmer50

Sandman6472 said:

Still haven't driven the new addition but happy to say, both vehicles are back in the garage...finally. So, for the time being, matters of the vehicular kind are done...for now. Filled my tank back up to full, so not seriously going to look for anything quite yet. I might do some looking when the wife goes to St. Augustine on the 22nd. Would rather do it alone so I can concentrate on things and anything I test, will have to be brought home for the "garage test" as we like to call it. Been doing it since we moved in, always bring anything that might have an issue fitting home for a test. It becomes very obvious very quickly if something will fit or not. And if not, it's stricken from the short list. Not going to buy a vehicle that won't fit in the garage as we use our garage for it's intended purpose unlike all our neighbors.

I do like buying in December so we shall see how this all plays out. But truthfully, think it'll be another year before any move is made...might as well get a ten year run with the Golf.

It’s amazing how many people in Florida leave their cars out in the open. It takes away from the value of having a rust free car if the clear cost is blasted and the dashboard is cracked. I see a lot of Hondas up here in either red or black with no clear coat on upward facing surfaces.

Don’t your neighbors at least have a car port?

oldfarmer50

tjc78 said:

@nyccarguy said:

If I had to do it over again, I'd get a Sienna. I'd love a Suburban, but they are ungodly expensive and don't lease well. Plus I know for certain my wife would be dead set against a Suburban. I have no problem riding out the 4Xe as my son drives it about 25 miles per day instead of the 65 miles I drive. Switching vehicles with him isn't an option. Part of his Autism is that it takes him about 2 weeks to get used to something new. Its better for us if he sticks with 1 vehicle. The Tacoma is just too big for him.

Gotcha .. all makes sense. Yeah the truck based SUVs are just out of control on the prices. I loved the Wagoneer I rented last year in Vegas, but can’t justify the price.

Doesn’t Chrysler have a plug in minivan? I wonder if they lease well with the tax credit. I’ve never looked into it.

Chrysler’s minivan is pretty nice and you can option it up with lots of goodies if you’re into that. The company uses them exclusively for the geezer crew and they are comfortable. Keep the oil changed and the Penstar V6 is fairly problem free. We run them up to 70k+ miles. The hybrid has a range of over 500 miles.

The only thing I would be cautious about would be transmissions and that’s only by reputation not any bad experience. Put a transmission cooler on it if you’re worried.

stickguy

I think the same up here in the winter.

nyccarguy

stickguy said:

There are 5 of you, right? I’m gonna guess that a drive that far to visit the folks is not a big hassle in the Highlander. A week Long Beach vacation I can see, but that’s what the trailer idea is for!

When I was a kid and all 3 of us were home (I’m the youngest spaced every 3 years so it went on for a while) we traveled 4 hours to Vermont to visit grandparents and took summer driving vacations. In a Volvo 144. Different times I guess, maybe we traveled lighter!

Yes. There are 5 of us. The drive to visit people is a big deal. Especially for my 12 year old daughter who never wants to sit in the 3rd row.

stickguy

She would really like sitting in the middle of the. 3rd row of a narrow sedan. In summer without AC. next to a very nasty older sister.

Thankfully I somehow got the other window and my poor middle sister got stuck on the hump.

pensfan83

@nyccarguy said:
Yes. There are 5 of us. The drive to visit people is a big deal. Especially for my 12 year old daughter who never wants to sit in the 3rd row.

The 10 year old is delighted to have his own row so we're enjoying the honeymoon while it lasts.

explorerx4

We got our first 3 row SUV is 2000. Have 2 kids and they loved each having their own row to travel in.
The Highlander has always been the runt of the litter when it comes to the 3rd row.
Why do you think they came out with the Grand Highlander?

stickguy

The problem to me with a 3 row SUV (not the suburban class) is not that the 3rd row is too small (since it should just be some sort of child back there). It was you had a choice of 3rd row or enough cargo space to put more than a couple of plastic shopping bags, but you could not have both at the same time.

For a larger family absolutely nothing beats a minivan.

explorerx4

Well stick, I can tell you've never owned a 3 row SUV.

stickguy

No but I have ridden in the back of an MDX and know how little cargo room there is behind it (never mind being at least a foot too tall!)

Does that count?

au1994

stickguy said:

The problem to me with a 3 row SUV (not the suburban class) is not that the 3rd row is too small (since it should just be some sort of child back there). It was you had a choice of 3rd row or enough cargo space to put more than a couple of plastic shopping bags, but you could not have both at the same time.

For a larger family absolutely nothing beats a minivan.

I’m with you. I’ve been in the 3rd row of an MDX and newer Explorer and it was painful. The latter was a 2hr trip for which I wished I was tranquilized. Getting in was so comical I just had them open the rear hatch to get out when we arrived.

The minivan with a car topper really is the ultimate family road-trip vehicle. If it helps you can get one of the cool Thule ones instead of the one that Sears used to sell. The S’cargo??

kyfdx

We were on a ski trip in Colorado, one year. Three men and three teenage sons. We'd reserved two rentals. Got to the Emerald Aisle, and they had an Expedition EL. (2011?). We canceled the 2nd reservation.

The third row had a split folding rear seat. No issues swallowing six passengers, and all of our gear. But, absolutely no fun to drive.

au1994

kyfdx said:

We were on a ski trip in Colorado, one year. Three men and three teenage sons. We'd reserved two rentals. Got to the Emerald Aisle, and they had an Expedition EL. (2011?). We canceled the 2nd reservation.

The third row had a split folding rear seat. No issues swallowing six passengers, and all of our gear. But, absolutely no fun to drive.

We’ve got a couple of those and the std size in the fleet at work. It is a great highway cruiser. Not fun to park but for what its designed for its great.

au1994

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&url=https://www.ebay.com/itm/294354330486&psig=AOvVaw0VEudmshnMTc8mwE4AL2Z8&ust=1702506365400000&source=images&cd=vfe&ved=0CBIQjRxqFwoTCOCb3s34ioMDFQAAAAAdAAAAABAE


Blast from the past

benjaminh

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/12/11/f-150-lightning-ford-cuts-2024-production-plans-in-half.html

Ford was hoping to reach F-150 Lightning sales of 150k in 2024, but bowing to reality they've just cut production in half for next year to about 75k.

xwesx

I find it humorous and was going to comment.... Here we are, forty years after the "dilemma of the third row" was solved, still complaining about the third row. Y'all basically hit it already, though.

explorerx4

If the Explorer had the 3 across 2nd row, the outboard seats have tabs at the top next to the headrest that you flip up and the back of the seat tilts forward and the whole seat slides forward to access the 3rd row.
I had a 17 cuft Thule which was 7 feet long. It could fit long items, opened from either side and the crossbar latches slid back and forth to fit the distance between the bars, so easy installation.
Gave it to my son in law when he got a 3 row SUV.
I have a Sears 20cuft X-Cargo XL we bought when we didn't have a 3 row SUV. It can fit taller objects but it only opens from the back and has a series of holes to put the hardware through to attach to the crossbars, so not as easily adjustable.
It worked out well with my pickup trucks. Load it up and slide it in or out of the bed. Kept the contents dry, too. Most pickup bed covers leak at least a little bit.

tifighter

It had been awhile since I’d been in a showroom, so I stopped by to see this today -

stickguy

that is hideous. I would be embarrassed to be seen in one!

andres3

tifighter said:

It had been awhile since I’d been in a showroom, so I stopped by to see this today -

Looks like something you could drive on Mars.

Sandman6472

OF, all the homes in our development have 2-car garages with only a few of the newer builds with 3. Most use theirs as a storage bin as they have so much stuff. We, on the other hand, have some shelves with our stuff on them and we hang the brooms, Shriffer Jet, & other stuff on the sides. Am still able to get both vehicles in the garage but the wife is having difficulties pulling in straight so I'm always at an angle now. Annoying but am dealing with it...watching her pulling out of the garage is a sight to see. She always turns the wheel either right or left for some reason. But, am determined to make this work even when I do replace the Golf. Do know that when we do move, the new place will have plenty of garage space.

Sandman6472

Had my yearly evaluation today, I just started my 4th year at Enterprise! As expected, everything went fine & am even getting a $.35/hour raise! We did get to discuss my health issues and was very pleased that the guy has empathy and told me to never ever push myself. Safety is #1 with our company so he understands when I don't feel well enough to drive as it could be a potential safety issue. Was glad that he didn't berate me for taking time off this year due to the vertigo as he knows I'd be at work if I felt safe enough to go. Still loving the job as every day is something new.
Drove a Ford F-150 today and didn't like it...was too big for my tastes. I see how others love them as they drive nicely and have plenty of hauling capacity but, just isn't for me. Luckily we have like something from every manufacturer so I get to try almost every model out there, give or take.

tjc78

Our 2012 and 15 Enclaves had a useable third row. I had adults back there quite a few times.

Honestly I like not having a three row SUV anymore. I don’t have to be the chauffeur.

tjc78

@Sandman6472 said:
OF, all the homes in our development have 2-car garages with only a few of the newer builds with 3. Most use theirs as a storage bin as they have so much stuff. We, on the other hand, have some shelves with our stuff on them and we hang the brooms, Shriffer Jet, & other stuff on the sides. Am still able to get both vehicles in the garage but the wife is having difficulties pulling in straight so I'm always at an angle now. Annoying but am dealing with it...watching her pulling out of the garage is a sight to see. She always turns the wheel either right or left for some reason. But, am determined to make this work even when I do replace the Golf. Do know that when we do move, the new place will have plenty of garage space.

Same here in our development. Very few use their whole garage. Mine is still open for two cars however my truck will not fit in without me removing my workbench and raising my shelves (that are already high). I will eventually get to it!

tifighter

More since Stick loves it so much-

jmonroe1

stickguy said:

that is hideous. I would be embarrassed to be seen in one!

————————————————
I’d be embarrassed to say I saw one.

jmonroe

ab348

tifighter said:

It had been awhile since I’d been in a showroom, so I stopped by to see this today -

Funny you posted that… the CEO of Ford, Jim Farley, posted this today himself:

https://x.com/jimfarley98/status/1734724833336856657?s=61&t=851PYpsGqbPNXmt_ybmVGQE

fintail

tifighter said:

More since Stick loves it so much-

Bellevue Square I suppose. I wonder what those hubcap-coordinated tires will cost to replace, and if the go getter demographic who will plunk down acquired money for one will use them as replacements.