Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

tifighter

(checks to see if he opened the C&C thread by mistake)

benjaminh

The Mazda mx-5 Miata seems like a good value in a rare fun-to-drive manual transmission car. I'm wondering if it only has a few more years to live? Even with the optional soul red paint the msrp is $30k.
https://www.mazdausa.com/shopping-tools/build-and-price#/23MX5/23MX5SP/summary

SPORT FEATURES:
181-hp, SKYACTIV®-G4 2.0 DOHC 16-valve 4-cylinder with VVT with 6-speed manual transmission
EPA-estimated mileage city/hwy (mpg): 26/34
16-inch aluminum alloy wheels in Metallic Black finish with P195/50 R16 high-performance tires
LED Headlights
Black cloth convertible top
Glass rear window with defogger
Mazda Advanced Keyless Entry System
CarPlay/AndroidAuto with 7" full color touch screen
AM/FM audio system with 6 speakers including driver's side headrest speakers
Blind Spot Monitoring, Rear Cross Traffic Alert

nyccarguy

@benjaminh - can't go wrong with a Miata unless you are 6'5" like @qbrozen, advancing in age like so many of us are, or have 2 kids in private school with one hopefully on his way to college next year, and don't want to live in it.

stickguy

No issues with headroom as long as the top is down. New ones are better but the problem I had with my gen 2 NB was lack of a place for my legs and feet.

benjaminh

stickguy said:

No issues with headroom as long as the top is down. New ones are better but the problem I had with my gen 2 NB was lack of a place for my legs and feet.

Are you over 6 feet?

qbrozen

It is looking like the Xterra is going back. Sigh.

tifighter

@nyccarguy said:
@benjaminh - can't go wrong with a Miata unless you are 6'5" like @qbrozen, advancing in age like so many of us are, or have 2 kids in private school with one hopefully on his way to college next year, and don't want to live in it.

Shoot, I’m only 6’2” and could just fit in our NC with the top down and a short term only seat angle. Top up meant I got a complimentary head massage. My Z4 felt palatial inside in comparison.

roadburner

A Mazdaspeed Miata coupe would tick all the boxes for me.

qbrozen

BUT, the new Miata already has more power than the old mazdaspeed version. It is about a full second quicker to 60, too. Unless you meant you want them to make a MS version of the new one, in which case I totally agree.

EDIT: I do think that is what you meant, actually, since the old one was never a coupe.

xwesx

qbrozen said:

It is looking like the Xterra is going back. Sigh.

Man, that's frustrating. Probably no compensation for the work you did on it, either. At least you didn't go all out... yet!

qbrozen

Yeah, they getting a painted bumper and grille. Bastards!
Have a box if parts I’ll have to sell off, too. Grrr…
On the bright side, I’ll be shopping again.

jmonroe1

qbrozen said:

Yeah, they getting a painted bumper and grille. Bastards!

Have a box if parts I’ll have to sell off, too. Grrr…

On the bright side, I’ll be shopping again.

————————————————
Attaboy, I knew you’d find the bright side.

I doubt I’d be as calm.

jmonroe

ab348

Having lunch today with a friend, who ran into a lady doctor friend while we were there and had a conversation about cars. She revealed she has a 1992 Miata SE, BRG over than leather with a tan top and optional hardtop, bought new, that she is probably going to sell because it takes up a garage space she would rather have for her daily driver this time of year. I believe she said it had 65000km but I might have heard that incorrectly. I thought I heard her throw a number at him of $10KCdn.

I used to know a guy who also had one from new who I would see tooling around in the summer with it.

nyccarguy

qbrozen said:

Yeah, they getting a painted bumper and grille. Bastards!

Have a box if parts I’ll have to sell off, too. Grrr…

On the bright side, I’ll be shopping again.

This is why we are here! Let's go!

qbrozen

@ab348 said:
Having lunch today with a friend, who ran into a lady doctor friend while we were there and had a conversation about cars. She revealed she has a 1992 Miata SE, BRG over than leather with a tan top and optional hardtop, bought new, that she is probably going to sell because it takes up a garage space she would rather have for her daily driver this time of year. I believe she said it had 65000km but I might have heard that incorrectly. I thought I heard her throw a number at him of $10KCdn.

I used to know a guy who also had one from new who I would see tooling around in the summer with it.

I don’t know how that translates in a real market with real money, but that BRG/tan SE was always the one I wanted. Aside from the perfect color scheme, it came with the 6-speed manual instead of the 5-spd. Although there was talk of it being worse in some situations due to an extra shift before 60mph or leaving you in no man’s land between 2nd and 3rd in some turns, I think that’s being nitpicky.

roadburner

The high filtration once caused my evaporator to freeze up because of the reduced airflow. Cheap is good.

benjaminh

The way Tesla reports sales numbers is somewhat unusual, which means it takes a bit longer to figure out final US sales for specific models. Anyway, that's now been done, and as expected the Model Y has passed Honda's best-selling model, which of course is their CR-V. Toyota's RAV4, which is the best-selling non-truck model in the US, is not that far ahead of the Model Y. For 2024 Tesla should have the capacity to make and sell about half a million Model Ys in the US, but Toyota should have a similar capacity for the RAV4. My guess is that a year from now the Model Y will win this sales race.

2023 RAV4 sales: 434,943

2023 Model Y sales: 394,497

2023 CR-V sales: 361,457

benjaminh

Tesla sales in the US for 2023 added up to 655,000, which was an increase of 25% compared to 2022. It seems likely that Tesla sales will continue to grow around 25% a year in the US for at least the next two years, which would mean sales of around 800,000 in 2024, and about a million in 2025. I watched parts of the hour-long interview below that was released last night, and the person interviewed is part of a company that tears down Teslas and other cars to analyze costs and engineering techniques. Basically he says that Tesla has a significant cost advantage in producing EVs, and that this cost advantage will probably grow in the next few years. Tesla will probably be able to make a $30,000 EV in year or two, and by a year or two after that this new model will probably outsell the Model Y.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8LN6Vnnyfo&t=368s

tjc78

I can’t watch the article right now… but I’d assume Tesla has a leg up on EVs because they were built from the ground up to be an EV.

Many of the other manufacturers relied heavily on existing platforms to create their EVs which I would wager has its share of compromises

nyccarguy

"Tesla has a significant cost advantage in producing EVs, and that this cost advantage will probably grow in the next few years."

Can you imagine the cost advantage that other auto manufactures would have if they too would be able to produce the same vehicles since 2012?

The market is speaking. Thousands of dollars in incentives and trunk money on these electric vehicles. Abysmal residual values.

corvette

Tesla is also vertically integrated in terms of manufacturing the batteries, motors, chargers, etc., which gives them another leg up in terms of manufacturing costs and design flexibility.

benjaminh

In terms of the sales race between the RAV4 and the Model Y there's an additional factoid that I just came across: in December Toyota sold an all-time monthly record of 47,044 RAV4s in the US. If Toyota can keep up that rate of production and sales it might mean annual sales of as many as 560,000 for the RAV4 in 2024. If so, I don't think any model that wasn't a truck has sold that many in a long time. Even the Camry, at its sales peak in 2007, was at around 470,000. Maybe Toyota can stay ahead of Tesla's likely production of Ys this year of about 500,000? In any case, we're going to see lots of new Ys and RAV4s on roads and highways everywhere.

https://www.goodcarbadcar.net/toyota-rav4-sales-figures/

https://www.goodcarbadcar.net/toyota-camry-sales-figures/

tjc78

@nyccarguy said:
"Tesla has a significant cost advantage in producing EVs, and that this cost advantage will probably grow in the next few years."

Can you imagine the cost advantage that other auto manufactures would have if they too would be able to produce the same vehicles since 2012?

The market is speaking. Thousands of dollars in incentives and trunk money on these electric vehicles. Abysmal residual values.

I didn’t even give the length of time a thought. It’s like the Panther or GM Express Van of EVs!

qbrozen

And the F-series still exceeds ALL of Tesla sales. I doubt the cybertruck is going to make any noticeable dent in those sales.

corvette

tjc78 said:

I didn’t even give the length of time a thought. It’s like the Panther or GM Express Van of EVs!

nyccarguy

tjc78 said:

@nyccarguy said:

"Tesla has a significant cost advantage in producing EVs, and that this cost advantage will probably grow in the next few years."

Can you imagine the cost advantage that other auto manufactures would have if they too would be able to produce the same vehicles since 2012?

The market is speaking. Thousands of dollars in incentives and trunk money on these electric vehicles. Abysmal residual values.

I didn’t even give the length of time a thought. It’s like the Panther or GM Express Van of EVs!

Or the 4Runner/GX...

fintail

corvette said:

tjc78 said:

I didn’t even give the length of time a thought. It’s like the Panther or GM Express Van of EVs!

I think the 3 will eventually be seen on the same cool level as an A-body was 10-20 years ago. Already some internet snarksters are calling it an Altima for people with better credit.

qbrozen

Just saw an interesting video series on ticktock. Guy has towed 11k lbs with the Rivian, Lightning, and now cybertruck in freezing weather. CT gave lowest range at 90 miles. Ford was 100 and Rivian was a bit above that. All accelerated to 60 with that load in the mid 12-sec range. Guess the CT isn’t going to be the pick-em-up savior Elon claimed. Shocking, I know.

tjc78

@qbrozen said:
Just saw an interesting video series on ticktock. Guy has towed 11k lbs with the Rivian, Lightning, and now cybertruck in freezing weather. CT gave lowest range at 90 miles. Ford was 100 and Rivian was a bit above that. All accelerated to 60 with that load in the mid 12-sec range. Guess the CT isn’t going to be the pick-em-up savior Elon claimed. Shocking, I know.

Makes the RamCharger look very appealing

benjaminh

"Ford cuts electric F-150 Lightning truck production — again
Graham Rapier Jan 19, 2024, 9:00 AM EST
Ford plans to cut production of its electric F-150 Lightning pickup truck once again, it said Friday, citing a problem nearly all automakers have struggled with in the past year: falling demand. About 1,400 employees will be impacted as the plant where Ford's flagship electric truck is produced, the Rouge Electric Vehicle Center, transitions to just one shift per day starting on April 1, Ford said. About half will transfer to a nearby plant in Wayne while others will be placed at other facilities in southeast Michigan or "take advantage of the Special Retirement Incentive Program," Ford said...."

https://www.businessinsider.com/ford-cuts-electric-f-150-lightning-production-affecting-jobs-2024-1

Just a year ago Ford was building up production so their factory could make 150,000 Lightnings in 2024, but now it looks like they'll struggle to sell 40,000. As has been clear for a few months, Ford has hit a wall when it comes to EVs.

I wonder when or if Tesla will hit a wall? Could it happen even this year? Do most of the customers who really want an EV already have one? Already price cuts mean that you can get a new Model Y in some parts of the country for $39k before the federal tax credit, which is probably getting to a pretty low profit level for Tesla. It's already difficult to imagine that during the time of the chip shortage the Model Y was $67k.



https://www.caranddriver.com/tesla/model-y-2022

corvette

Got a recall notice on the Maverick today. Apparently, there are two bulbs in each taillight which flash when the turn signal is activated, but the "bulb out" indicator may not be tripped if only one of them is burnt out. The fix is to reprogram the BCM so that it will trip if only one of them is out. I didn't realize "bulb out" indicators were now required safety equipment?

JRGo also had a recent video where he mentioned that rearward facing white lights illuminating the truck bed are required to automatically turn off once the vehicle reaches a certain speed, which is why they are all now electronic momentary contact switches instead of fixed on/off switches. I didn't know that, either.

explorerx4

If it's the same video I watched, Lightning went the furthest but it was not tested in cold weather and had street tires.

roadburner

@qbrozen said:

@ab348 said:
Having lunch today with a friend, who ran into a lady doctor friend while we were there and had a conversation about cars. She revealed she has a 1992 Miata SE, BRG over than leather with a tan top and optional hardtop, bought new, that she is probably going to sell because it takes up a garage space she would rather have for her daily driver this time of year. I believe she said it had 65000km but I might have heard that incorrectly. I thought I heard her throw a number at him of $10KCdn.

I used to know a guy who also had one from new who I would see tooling around in the summer with it.

I don’t know how that translates in a real market with real money, but that BRG/tan SE was always the one I wanted. Aside from the perfect color scheme, it came with the 6-speed manual instead of the 5-spd. Although there was talk of it being worse in some situations due to an extra shift before 60mph or leaving you in no man’s land between 2nd and 3rd in some turns, I think that’s being nitpicky.

I almost bought one of those special edition Miatas for a DD; the only problem was that it was at an Oxmorons dealership.

roadburner

I have to say that my Jeep’s remote start implementation is much better than the setup in the C43. Both cars use a proprietary app to start the car, and both vehicles must be locked to initiate the process. However, when you unlock the C43 the engine shuts off. In contrast, the Jeep remains running but the gear selection is locked out; you have to have the key fob and press the start button again in order to select a gear.

au1994

roadburner said:

I have to say that my Jeep’s remote start implementation is much better than the setup in the C43. Both cars use a proprietary app to start the car, and both vehicles must be locked to initiate the process. However, when you unlock the C43 the engine shuts off. In contrast, the Jeep remains running but the gear selection is locked out; you have to have the key fob and press the start button again in order to select a gear.

Another nice touch Jeep put in is that the steering wheel and drivers side seat heaters automatically kick on if its lower than 40 outside.

au1994

@corvette and @stickguy…I think I know but give me the good and bad on your Mavericks.

I am 240 days out from lease end so if I am going to order one, I need to get serious about it.

Thanks in advance!

corvette

@au1994 - I don't have many complaints. It's a very solid feeling vehicle, in spite of being a base model. Mine exhibits some wind noise in crosswinds, but it's very quiet in normal conditions. If I had it to do over, I'd probably consider an XLT, as the monochromatic interior treatment of the XL isn't as nice, although I think the steel wheels on the XL are kind of charming. Seat comfort and seating position are good, and although it's not a sports car, I found handling to be good for what it is.

The 2.0 liter EcoBoost really makes it a sleeper, and the AWD system does a good job of putting the power to the ground. If memory serves, in order to get that same powertrain (and similar performance) in other Ford products, you'd have to step up to either a base model Edge or one of the highest trims of the Escape or Bronco Sport, all of which hover around $40k. The fact that I was able to get a decently equipped Maverick in the mid $20s and throw a tonneau cover on the back for cargo carrying needs is a huge savings.

Regular cruise control is now standard on all trim levels, and I think. you may be able to get adaptive cruise on the XLT model as part of an enhanced CoPilot 360 package.

stickguy

well, being one of the select owners of both powertrains, I should be able to help! first question of course is which model, and what you plan to do with it. I assume it is to replace the Wrangler, so I will assume you are looking at an AWD Ecoboost.

My Ecoboost (I had it for about 15 months) was perfect. No issues requiring attention, and overall good MPG. Not a huge bed (in length) but I found it to be very functional since nice and deep, well designed for utility. Drives nice (not at all trucky). I find the seats to be extremely comfortable, and it is a great highway cruiser.

Hybrid of course gets way better MPG, but FWD only. No issues with mine for far in 8 months (just went over 4,000 miles today!) and I find it to drive exceptionally well.

If you want the goodies, get a Lariat. Better stereo and user interface, quieter, ACC, heated seats and wheel, among other things (plus I think the interior is much nicer looking). And big to me, pushbutton start and fobless door locking.

On the EB I would get the 4K tow package for sure. Pretty cheap. If you don't want that at least pay the $100 for the basic tow package (2K limit on the hitch, and a 4 pin instead of 7 pin connector).

From following the forums, seems that the order times have gotten a lot better, especially for the EB. Key still is making sure whatever dealer you order from has allocations left if you ever want to see it. But you should timewise be fine if you pick a good volume dealer.

if you want something with useful all weather and light off road capability, with a lot of utility (having a bed is very nice) that is a perfectly nice car to DD or take anywhere, that won't break the bank, hard to go wrong with one of these.

stickguy

IMO the co-pilot 360 package is a must have. You need to get a Lariat if you want ACC (and on the lariat, everything comes standard now, CP360, luxury, and CP360 assist (the ACC and advanced lane keep stuff).

the 2.0T is available on the top line Bronco sport only (and some upper trim Escapes I think). Very strong engine.

kyfdx

@stickguy 50K posts!!

Congrats, I guess?

stickguy

kyfdx said:

@stickguy 50K posts!!

Congrats, I guess?

thanks? Do I get a T shirt? or just the realization I need to get a life?

kyfdx

stickguy said:

kyfdx said:

@stickguy 50K posts!!

Congrats, I guess?

thanks? Do I get a T shirt? or just the realization I need to get a life?

I have some old T shirts.. they aren't Edmunds, though.. Might be the second one.

au1994

Thanks, guys! Great info. My spec is most likely an XLT AWD, pretty loaded to the point where it may make sense just to get the Lariat. Even in Lariat trim, the value prop is incredible.

I do like the look of the Tremor but I don’t think it’s worth the extra $ for what is a lot of cosmetics and not a lot more capability. Without low range I won’t be doing much more than dirt roads to hiking trails.

Bed length will be fine for my use case and I’ll be looking forward to something a little quieter and smoother after 3 years with the Wrangler.

laurasdada

kyfdx said:

stickguy said:

kyfdx said:

@stickguy 50K posts!!

Congrats, I guess?

thanks? Do I get a T shirt? or just the realization I need to get a life?

I have some old T shirts.. they aren't Edmunds, though.. Might be the second one.

You have a life...here. Perhaps you are referring to IRL? (See how hip and young I am!)

stickguy

au1994 said:

Thanks, guys! Great info. My spec is most likely an XLT AWD, pretty loaded to the point where it may make sense just to get the Lariat. Even in Lariat trim, the value prop is incredible.

I do like the look of the Tremor but I don’t think it’s worth the extra $ for what is a lot of cosmetics and not a lot more capability. Without low range I won’t be doing much more than dirt roads to hiking trails.

Bed length will be fine for my use case and I’ll be looking forward to something a little quieter and smoother after 3 years with the Wrangler.

Tremor does have something actual off road designed. Locking rear diff maybe? But if you aren't actually planning to do hard core off road, an FX4 or just plain AWD is still quite capable.

if you get an XLT I highly recommend the luxury package. power seats with heat, and some other goodies standard. But at that point a Lariat could make sense.

If you get one, I have recommendations for a tonneau cover too!

nyccarguy

@stickguy said:
Tremor does have something actual off road designed. Locking rear diff maybe? But if you aren't actually planning to do hard core off road, an FX4 or just plain AWD is still quite capable.

if you get an XLT I highly recommend the luxury package. power seats with heat, and some other goodies standard. But at that point a Lariat could make sense.

If you get one, I have recommendations for a tonneau cover too!

Oh yeah! Locking rear differential! Argh argh argh!

explorerx4

I used the locking diff way more than 4 wheel drive when I had one.

qbrozen

Almost done. Gotta put new tires on and the dang snow has to melt outside. It ain’t perfect but at least it looks better, especially from a distance. ;b

pensfan83

@nyccarguy said:

@stickguy said:
Tremor does have something actual off road designed. Locking rear diff maybe? But if you aren't actually planning to do hard core off road, an FX4 or just plain AWD is still quite capable.

if you get an XLT I highly recommend the luxury package. power seats with heat, and some other goodies standard. But at that point a Lariat could make sense.

If you get one, I have recommendations for a tonneau cover too!

Oh yeah! Locking rear differential! Argh argh argh!

I've never used mine.

hangs head in unmanly shame

tjc78

@qbrozen said:
Almost done. Gotta put new tires on and the dang snow has to melt outside. It ain’t perfect but at least it looks better, especially from a distance. ;b

I wouldn’t fit in it… but I want it

I’d bop around Wildwood in it.