Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

au1994

Can’t make it up…

xwesx

What? $15,000 due at signing?! Pocket change!

greg128

tjc78 said:

Wow … over the last day or I received serious sticker shock on Rogue leases (what Mom wanted)

MSRP - $34270 .. best quote $539 36/10K. $539 DAS

This was with a dealer discount and buy rate MF (thanks @kyfdx). My calculations matched the dealers.

One dealer had two ‘23s left that came in a touch cheaper.

There was no way even with much more dealer discount any deal was going to be palatable on a Rogue

Off to the brokers…

Same guys I got the Ram and EQE from. Looking at a CX-50 AWD Preferred. 34K MSRP 36/10 $372 monthly and $372 OOP plus $599 broker fee and $99 delivery.

$391 effective monthly. Not great.. but significantly better than the Rogue and IMO a better car.

My niece is leasing a Rogue. I think it is a 2023 SV that she said had a sticker of $40K +. I am not sure what the DAS was but she is paying around $450 per month which she claims she can't afford. Her father, My BIL and business partner just leased a 2024 Chevy Blazer 2LT AWD with the 2.0 Turbo and again not sure what he put down and is paying less I think around $420 per mo. It is pretty well equipped with most safety equipment and it looks good with the 20" wheels. He said the sticker was around 40K or a bit more. I drove it and was impressed with the ride and power of the 2.0T which had plenty of low end torque.
I have not driven the Rogue. it has a nice looking interior although the seats are hard as are the Blazer's.

Looking at the 2 of them parked side by side the Blazer looks much more substantial. It is over 4 inches wider. The 2.0T in the Chevy has been around for over a decade and most of the problems have been sorted out. My wife had a 2016 Malibu 2.0T with more HP than the Blazer and that engine was a gem...very smooth and impressive power although I did not like the premium gas recommendation. Apparently they detuned it to run on regular. I am pretty sure the later versions have been shown to be reliable. I would take that over the 3

I would that over the 3 cyl with the CVT in the Nissan. That engine is new and not proven and I have seen a video by "I do cars" on YTT on one that failed and he concluded it was due to the complexity of the crankshaft to piston mechanism. Consumer reviews on Edmunds for Rogue: 3.4 stars for the Blazer: 4.5

Sorry for the long post

qbrozen

@au1994 said:
Can’t make it up…

What am I looking at? Finance deal on a ‘24 Grand Cherokee? Seems like maybe 25% down after taxes and fees?

au1994

qbrozen said:

@au1994 said:

Can’t make it up…

What am I looking at? Finance deal on a ‘24 Grand Cherokee? Seems like maybe 25% down after taxes and fees?

For a lease…

jmonroe1

xwesx said:

What? $15,000 due at signing?! Pocket change!

————————————————-
Yep, and you’d have no monthly payment if you just bought it outright. Why not just make it easy on yourself and have no monthly’s?

jmonroe

oldfarmer50

“ but she is paying around $450 per month which she claims she can't afford.”

If she can’t afford it why did she agree to it?

ab348

explorerx4 said:

Watching the Yankees playing in Toronto. There is an Ad behind home plate for the Ram Classic, 20% off MSRP.

At $7 worthless Canadian dollars for a gallon of fuel I cannot imagine how many non-millionaires can afford to run their fancy pickups. Oh, wait, those are $100K to buy here.

Never mind.

xwesx

Watched a C&B auction close out earlier today for a 1997 F350 PowerStroke. Final price was $13,700, which is actually a decent deal for how much those seem to go for (even with 200,000+ miles), but man, that's still a lot of dough.

stickguy

Sandy, I would be surprised if you actually liked (more like didn't go nuts from!) the odd capacitive touch controls VW is using now.

jmonroe1

xwesx said:

Watched a C&B auction close out earlier today for a 1997 F350 PowerStroke. Final price was $13,700, which is actually a decent deal for how much those seem to go for (even with 200,000+ miles), but man, that's still a lot of dough.

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Anything that is near 30 years old is an easy pass for me especially with 200K + miles. Based on that standard my cars are worth a fortune. Mrs. j’s 2018 Legacy Limited has 27K miles and my 15 Genny just cracked 10K miles.

jmonroe

fintail

I thought some might be amused - found in another forum, moving to mop 'n glo instead of the traditional "market adjustment" (but that's still there as a red herring), this appears to be the dealer in Bellevue:

tifighter

And Acura Bellevue is usually the least bad option. I’m sure Hinshaws and Southcenter won’t take this lying down…

venture

tifighter said:

And Acura Bellevue is usually the least bad option. I’m sure Hinshaws and Southcenter won’t take this lying down…

This is the kind of stuff that makes me not want to ever buy anything from a dealer like that. Our local Honda dealer is like this (but not to the extent Fintail showed). I’ve never owned a Honda and probably never will.

At one time, long ago, I always bought Chevys because a friend owned the Chevrolet dealership. Then they started adding ADM stickers and assured me that I could ignore them. I ignored them to the point that I haven’t bought a Chevy since.

Why people pay that, assuming they do since the dealer could be generous and “knock off” $5,000 so someone thinks they are being treated fairly and still make a killing, amazes me.

The old saying – men brag about how little they paid for their cars, and how much they paid for their suits.

qbrozen

@au1994 said:
For a lease…

Oh it says Est Lease Payment. That’s just silly.

sda

I was given a RDX tech loaner while the TL is back in the shop to address the VSA malfunction. I like the way the RDX drives. It feels lively and fun to drive. Comfortable seats, decently quiet, nice sound system. It took me a while to figure out how to navigate to XM and radio stations and found it cumbersome and frustrating to make changes while underway. Perhaps familiarity with the system would lessen that experience. The MSRP on the RDX is about $48500.

qbrozen

yet another transmission control reimagining that nobody asked for nor needed

roadburner

venture said:

tifighter said:

And Acura Bellevue is usually the least bad option. I’m sure Hinshaws and Southcenter won’t take this lying down…

This is the kind of stuff that makes me not want to ever buy anything from a dealer like that. Our local Honda dealer is like this (but not to the extent Fintail showed). I’ve never owned a Honda and probably never will.

At one time, long ago, I always bought Chevys because a friend owned the Chevrolet dealership. Then they started adding ADM stickers and assured me that I could ignore them. I ignored them to the point that I haven’t bought a Chevy since.

Why people pay that, assuming they do since the dealer could be generous and “knock off” $5,000 so someone thinks they are being treated fairly and still make a killing, amazes me.

The old saying – men brag about how little they paid for their cars, and how much they paid for their suits.

I've mentioned this before, but my girlfriend (now wife) wanted an Accord hatchback in the early '80s- during the dark days of the voluntary import quotas. We visited every Honda dealer in the Cincinnati area and they all wanted to play stupid games. One guy refused to do anything but quote payment numbers while another wanted a $500 deposit before he would take our offer to the SM- he said that "he needed to know that we were serious." My wife would likely have become a lifetime Honda owner as she really liked the Accord, but the dealer experiences soured her on the brand.

stickguy

You get used to the shift pretty quickly and it’s easy to use without looking. Same with the radio. Once you understand it it’s actually pretty straightforward. And nice to not have to be teaching way out to try and poke the right spot on a touch screen.

But certainly if just handed that car with no instructions or practice it will be confusing. But that goes for almost any car these days!

au1994

qbrozen said:

yet another transmission control reimagining that nobody asked for nor needed

Probably my least favorite thing about many Honda products right now but stick is right, it doesn’t take long to get used to. I had an overnight test drive with a Pilot a few years ago and didn’t notice after a minute.

Just a traditionalist I guess. Besides, where am I supposed to rest my hand??

corvette

@roadburner - I'm too young to remember those days, but my dad had a very early 1st-gen CR-X (I think it was before the dealer-installed A/C was available--he later had that added, in addition to a pop-up glass sunroof). He said his name was put on a list at the local dealer. When the auto transporter arrived at the dealer, the dealer called him and said they had a red or a white CR-X available--I think if you declined, you got taken off the waitlist. I'm sure there was no price negotiation.

It didn't sour him on the brand--he later bought a new black CR-X Si, a used Civic Si, and the Element.

stickguy

I always focused on what I wanted to drive. And separated the dealer nonsense from that

breld

That brings back memories of my 1990 Civic Si...we didn't opt for the optional A/C nor did we get the factory stereo. The Si did have a power moonroof standard...along with manual crank windows.

Didn't take long to run over to my local car audio place to have a fancy cassette deck installed.

sda

My ex put a deposit on and was put on a waiting list for an 85 Prelude. After a long wait, she found that 'her' car came in several times but was sold to someone else. Her dad went to the manager and gave him the riot act. Who knew, in less than a week she was driving her new 85 Prelude. That dealer was eventually sold to one of the huge dealer networks in FL.

xwesx

xwesx said:

Thoughts on where folks think this Forester might end up?

Well, we were all WAY off on this one (at least not off our rockers, like the bidders were!). Sold for $16,500. Yikes.

xwesx

Currently another bidding war going on with a 2016 Tesla X. The car includes lifetime Supercharging, so I'm sure that's a big draw. It's creeping up to $30K....

Edit: Not bad; ended at $30,500. That's probably pretty fair market, TBH. Not crazy high, like that Forester!

Michaell

Do we have a problem with unfettered capitalism in this group? Honda dealers were selling cars for what the market would bear.

Blame the US government for implementing the voluntary restrictions in the first place.

jmonroe1

xwesx said:

xwesx said:

Thoughts on where folks think this Forester might end up?

Well, we were all WAY off on this one (at least not off our rockers, like the bidders were!). Sold for $16,500. Yikes.

————————————————
More proof that the old dealership adage of, “there’s a butt for every seat”, is true.

jmonroe

au1994

breld said:

That brings back memories of my 1990 Civic Si...we didn't opt for the optional A/C nor did we get the factory stereo. The Si did have a power moonroof standard...along with manual crank windows.

Didn't take long to run over to my local car audio place to have a fancy cassette deck installed.

Alpine I hope!

explorerx4

The government was smart. They eventually forced those manufacturers to build plants here,

roadburner

Michaell said:

Do we have a problem with unfettered capitalism in this group? Honda dealers were selling cars for what the market would bear.

Blame the US government for implementing the voluntary restrictions in the first place.

I fully agree that dealers can charge whatever they want; and likewise I can choose not to patronize them.

corvette

@xwesx - free unlimited Supercharging, but my understanding is that the older models do not support the faster charging speeds of the newest models (which don’t offer free unlimited Supercharging), so it’s a double edged sword.

sda

Question, does the lifetime super charging transfer to the new owner? I’ve read some of the expensive options that the first owner paid for, Tesla removes to the new owner’s chagrin.

tjc78

@au1994 said:
Alpine I hope!

IDK Pioneer put out some good decks back then.

Also - Boston Acoustics speakers, Precison Power amps, JL Audio subs…

Man I miss my car audio days.

I remember buying this masterpiece in 1997

kyfdx

Dropped big bucks for a Pioneer SuperTuner with 8-track and and equalizer/amp in my '77 Cobra II.

tjc78

As a young kid … I may have been 7 or 8 I installed a Pioneer deck in my Grandmother’s Granada.

Grandpop took the dash off and I did the wiring. I’ve always been the audio geek.

My son couldn’t care less. He just has a bunch of different Bluetooth speakers

au1994

I had Kenwood and then Clarion CD players in my ‘89 Beretta. JVC amp and Clarion speakers. Couldn’t chum up the funds for an Alpine. Alarm too, not Clifford, Hornet, I think?

That car got me through college and after that I started leasing quite a bit once I started working so I had to be good with the factory deck. Which for the most part has been fine with me. Not exactly an audiophile. I just did the CD player because the Beretta didn’t come with one. Plus back then, you just put a car stereo in. You just did.

sda

kyfdx said:

Dropped big bucks for a Pioneer SuperTuner with 8-track and and equalizer/amp in my '77 Cobra II.

For high school graduation I got a Sanyo cassette auto reverse with Dolby and bi-amp connected to 6x9 Sanyo triaxials that had connections for the bi-amp set up for my 71 Vega GT. Worth more than the car. Later, I transferred it to my Sunbird.

kyfdx

sda said:

kyfdx said:

Dropped big bucks for a Pioneer SuperTuner with 8-track and and equalizer/amp in my '77 Cobra II.

For high school graduation I got a Sanyo cassette auto reverse with Dolby and bi-amp connected to 6x9 Sanyo triaxials that had connections for the bi-amp set up for my 71 Vega GT. Worth more than the car. Later, I transferred it to my Sunbird.

Cassettes in the '70s? Ooh, la, la... weren't you fancy!

laurasdada

As a gift, my dad upgraded the '71 Saab 99 AM radio with a "Realistic" under-dash cassette player and rear deck mounted Realistic speakers. About wore out my Best of the Doobie's and Who's Next cassettes!

I remember the dark days of voluntary quotas, the domestics were some of the biggest corps in the world, but needed protectionism... I didn't pay ADM for my first new car, Mitsu Mirage Turbo, but paid MSRP. Last time that happened!

ab348

roadburner said:

I've mentioned this before, but my girlfriend (now wife) wanted an Accord hatchback in the early '80s- during the dark days of the voluntary import quotas. We visited every Honda dealer in the Cincinnati area and they all wanted to play stupid games. One guy refused to do anything but quote payment numbers while another wanted a $500 deposit before he would take our offer to the SM- he said that "he needed to know that we were serious." My wife would likely have become a lifetime Honda owner as she really liked the Accord, but the dealer experiences soured her on the brand.

I’ve also mentioned this before, but I sold my MR2 in early 1990 and was without a car for a while. I was shopping and after trying several cars I didn’t like, I went to the Honda dealer. I test drove a new Civic hatch and it was OK but didn’t thrill me. I also drove an Integra coupe and for whatever reason it did nothing for me. I remember the clutch was ultra-light and after the MR2 I had trouble getting used to it. Then I drove a new Accord coupe and really liked it. I went back to the showroom to talk a deal. No dice. The guy wouldn’t even tell me the price unless I put a deposit down. I was incredulous. He stood fast. I said sayonara.

explorerx4

No love for Clarion?

stickguy

I remember splurging on an FM converter for my Duster. Just don't ask me how it worked because I don't remember!

sda

We had an Audiovox FM converter for dad’s 76 GMC. It was an easy set up. Some antenna splitter connections and a power lead to the fuse box or other available source. You dialed the AM radio to a certain station that wasn’t used for broadcast, pressed the button for FM on the converter and dialed in the desired station on the converter. It worked surprisingly well.
https://www.google.com/imgres?q=kraco fm converter&imgurl=https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.thirdgen.org-vbulletin/500x310/fm_d10485c59523d48681bda6b9c6d83262c6511062.jpg&imgrefurl=https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/car-audio/752445-anyone-miss-old-car-2.html&docid=LlAZ7vUlU26Q9M&tbnid=AYRBOJVhpIlwVM&vet=12ahUKEwjsqd7L-cyFAxXog4QIHbuZDSUQM3oECCwQAA..i&w=500&h=310&hcb=2&ved=2ahUKEwjsqd7L-cyFAxXog4QIHbuZDSUQM3oECCwQAA

explorerx4

A friend of mine just bought a 2016 Q5 with 7500 miles on it.
He's been looking for one for his wife for a while.
The main requirements are low mileage and a non digital dash.
It had yearly maintenance done as if it had 10K put on it every year, already has had the 60K service done.
It's getting shipped fron CA to CT.

oldfarmer50

sda said:

I was given a RDX tech loaner while the TL is back in the shop to address the VSA malfunction. I like the way the RDX drives. It feels lively and fun to drive. Comfortable seats, decently quiet, nice sound system. It took me a while to figure out how to navigate to XM and radio stations and found it cumbersome and frustrating to make changes while underway. Perhaps familiarity with the system would lessen that experience. The MSRP on the RDX is about $48500.

As someone who drives every imaginable car I agree that the touch screen revolution is a major frustration. What was wrong with knobs and buttons. I was in a relatively new F-150 (2022) today and it took me twice as long to adjust the radio on the big touch screen than it does to turn the knobs on my 2013. Same with the climate controls.

nyccarguy

@au1994 said:
I had Kenwood and then Clarion CD players in my ‘89 Beretta. JVC amp and Clarion speakers. Couldn’t chum up the funds for an Alpine. Alarm too, not Clifford, Hornet, I think?

That car got me through college and after that I started leasing quite a bit once I started working so I had to be good with the factory deck. Which for the most part has been fine with me. Not exactly an audiophile. I just did the CD player because the Beretta didn’t come with one. Plus back then, you just put a car stereo in. You just did.

I’m sure you’ve mentioned it before, but I didn’t realize you had a Beretta. Me too. My 1st car was a ‘92 Beretta GT. V6 w/ the 3 Speed Automatic. I haven’t owned a GM car since.

oldfarmer50

I installed an 8 track in the Charger. I was very proud of everything including the rear speakers in wood cabinets. Worked great until somebody broke in and stole it.😱

corvette

My dad has a lot of experience in car audio, so most of his older cars had systems--nothing too extreme, usually aftermarket speakers, headunit, amp, and sometimes a small subwoofer, and sometimes an equalizer. I think the 1991 Civic was the last car he put a system in. I seem to remember that it (and the 1990 CR-X) had factory speaker wiring, which was fairly thin, and he replaced it with something more substantial.

I remember installing an aftermarket CD changer to the factory stereo in my 1999 Jetta, with an adapter which used the factory radio buttons, but would occasionally lock up until you restarted the car. I later replaced both with (I think) a Kenwood head unit which would play data CDs you had burned MP3 files to, so you could fit 100+ songs on a single cheap CD-R disc.

Factory radios are generally decent nowadays. The 2011 Mustang was the only other car I've done audio upgrades on. The factory setup sounded awful and muddy. I bought the cheapest set of speakers Crutchfield offered (I think it was around $60 for two pair), and the difference was like night and day.

Anyway, currently, I have parts on order for:
- the Volt for a TSB (no longer under warranty) for a "shift to park" error message when turning the car off. For some reason, the car thinks it's not completely in park.
- the Maverick to add a power tailgate lock, which is definitely needed when you have a tonneau and want to use the bed as a giant trunk.

roadburner

I put a Pioneer Supertuner cassette deck in the Monte Carlo, along with a Pioneer AD304 amp and Pioneer 6x9 coaxials on the rear deck.
The Arrow GT got a Mitsubishi (appropriately enough) cassette deck and amp in the glove box and 6 1/2" Pioneer coaxials in the rear side panels.
The Bavaria ended up with a Kenwood cassette deck, line level amp and Pioneer speakers. The current owner reports that it still sounds surprisingly good.
I installed MB Quart speakers in the 1999 Wrangler.
The Clubman got a pair of Bavsound door speakers.
This summer I hope to install Bavsound door and kick panel speakers in the Club Sport.