Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

jmonroe1

qbrozen said:

@jmonroe1 said:

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I’m not trying to argue with you but just because the internet is full of tests being done by click gathering shade tree mechanics, that doesn’t inspire validity of the test as far as I’m concerned.

jmonroe

Agreed. I trust nothing Elon posts.

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We agree again. Elon is living proof that you can fool some of the people all of the time, and because of that, he still thinks he can fool all of the people some of the time and all of the people all of the time.

jmonroe

sda

oldfarmer50 said:

sda said:

It seems some dealers are starting to feel the pinch as inventory ramps up. I received this today.
Dear STEVEN,
I hope you are having a great day. My name is Alden and I'm the General Sales Manager here at Volkswagen of South Charlotte. The reason you are getting this email is that we accidentally ordered too many new Volkswagens from the factory and our lot is overflowing. We have more vehicles in stock than we have had in years, and we simply don't have room! Because of this, we are offering every new Volkswagen in stock at INVOICE price THIS WEEK ONLY. That's invoice, not MSRP.

That’s assuming invoice means the same thing to you as it does to the dealer.

As an aside, my son just passed thru Charlotte and was nearly stranded there after his flight from Las Vegas was delayed 4 hours and he missed his connection. That’s a pretty good sized airport you have there although the kid says the Vegas airport is bigger.

Sorry to learn your son missed his connection. Never good. Weather delay somewhere? The Charlotte airport has grown tremendously in size and volume in the past 20 years. It is impressive, yet I don't like going there much as it is always crowded, heavy traffic and parking has become an expensive hassle.

Michaell

jmonroe1 said:

qbrozen said:

@jmonroe1 said:

————————————————

I’m not trying to argue with you but just because the internet is full of tests being done by click gathering shade tree mechanics, that doesn’t inspire validity of the test as far as I’m concerned.

jmonroe

Agreed. I trust nothing Elon posts.

————————————————
We agree again. Elon is living proof that you can fool some of the people all of the time, and because of that, he still thinks he can fool all of the people some of the time and all of the people all of the time.

jmonroe

And apparently he's fooled enough of them to be awarded $46 billion (with a in compensation.

corvette

qbrozen said:

Guess he got rid of his Ford Lightning before getting the CT? So he learned an electric truck couldn’t meet his needs but got another one. Yup, that’s a YouTuber for ya.

Yes, he sold it quite some time ago, but managed to get a cameo on the Alex Jones show.

andres3

Michaell said:

jmonroe1 said:

qbrozen said:

@jmonroe1 said:

————————————————

I’m not trying to argue with you but just because the internet is full of tests being done by click gathering shade tree mechanics, that doesn’t inspire validity of the test as far as I’m concerned.

jmonroe

Agreed. I trust nothing Elon posts.

————————————————
We agree again. Elon is living proof that you can fool some of the people all of the time, and because of that, he still thinks he can fool all of the people some of the time and all of the people all of the time.

jmonroe

And apparently he's fooled enough of them to be awarded $46 billion (with a in compensation.

He's got to pay for Twitter somehow. He said a $100,000 ticket to Mars is doable. Start saving your spare change!

roadburner

The battery in the Sahara is 17.3 kWh. I've gone as far as 27 miles on electric. It takes around 12 hours to fully charge it using the supplied Level 1 EVSE.

kyfdx

So, 2.25 miles per hour of charging.

@tjc78 how about your EV Mercedes?

Michaell

Like I said earlier, it's about 22 miles R/T from home to the studio. Should be able to cover that on EV only, every time they go in, and charge overnight from a wall socket - easily 12 hours or more of charge time.

Not sure if we need an L2 charger, but they are installed for free (with a lifetime warranty) from the local utility, for a $14/mo service charge on my monthly bill. They'll do all the electrical work from my panel, as well.

jmonroe1

kyfdx said:

So, 2.25 miles per hour of charging.

@tjc78 how about your EV Mercedes?

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My CE cars can go around 300 miles per full tank and its never taken me more than 5 minutes to fill up. Time is money.

jmonroe

kyfdx

jmonroe1 said:

kyfdx said:

So, 2.25 miles per hour of charging.

@tjc78 how about your EV Mercedes?

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My CE cars can go around 300 miles per full tank and its never taken me more than 5 minutes to fill up. Time is money.

jmonroe

How about the time to drive to the gas station? Can you fill up while you're sleeping?

jmonroe1

kyfdx said:

jmonroe1 said:

kyfdx said:

So, 2.25 miles per hour of charging.

@tjc78 how about your EV Mercedes?

————————————————
My CE cars can go around 300 miles per full tank and its never taken me more than 5 minutes to fill up. Time is money.

jmonroe

How about the time to drive to the gas station? Can you fill up while you're sleeping?

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I fill up on the way home from whatever I was doing while I was out. So I never go out just to gas up because that would be a waste of time. As for sleep, my cars have plenty of gas while I’m sleeping. Anyway, they’re not like babies that wake you up when they’re hungry.

jmonroe

benjaminh

Although my wife seriously considered a 2025 Camry hybrid, the Toyota dealer's high prices, and even more my wife's desire for an all-wheel-drive station wagon, in the end ruled the day. Below are pix of my wife's new 2024 Outback Premium in Crimson Pearl with option package 15. List price was $36k exactly, but they took $2000 off list and we got the 1.9% financing from Subaru (Financing from Toyota would have been 5%, costing around $2.5k more in interest). Was a pleasant buying experience overall, although as usual it took a long time. After the test drive I let my wife take off in her current car, the CR-V that we are lending long-term to our daughter who just graduated from college, while I did the paperwork. When it was all done I drove home in my Acura, while our salesperson kindly drove my wife's car to her. As Consumer Reports has said a few times, the Outback has a surprisingly "luxury" ride. It's kinda like the Subaru Buick wagon from my pov. Anyway, we like it, and our car search is finally done. We did get the 10 year/100k Subaru Gold warranty with 0 deductible for $2500. Covers almost everything. Haven't bought car warranties lately, but with the worries about the CR-V's 1.5 turbo I kinda wish I had for that one. Anyway, some peace of mind, since we hope to keep her new Outback long-term.

roadburner

jmonroe1 said:

kyfdx said:

So, 2.25 miles per hour of charging.

@tjc78 how about your EV Mercedes?

————————————————
My CE cars can go around 300 miles per full tank and its never taken me more than 5 minutes to fill up. Time is money.

jmonroe

The 4xe is perfectly suited for my commute; as for charging time, who cares? While the Jeep is charging I drive the entertaining cars- the C43 and Club Sport.

corvette

Congrats on the Outback!

kyfdx

Looks great! My friends just bought a new Forester Touring. Only their second new car, ever. The last new one was a 1992 Civic.

suydam

The Kia charges faster than the Volt on 120V but it still takes hours, so I charge overnight. Couldn’t be easier. The app sends a notification when it’s done. You don’t need a 240V for a PHEV.

I’m looking to get a 240V in my garage eventually for the Blazer. I just have to extend the dryer line from the house to the garage.I will probably use public charging stations very close to me for the time being. The DC fast chargers charge to 80% within 15 minutes or so. Park, charge, run an errand at the mall, done. Most shopping areas have chargers now. No extra gas station stop required!

corvette

No sale on the Electric Talltima. It drove fine and I would have been glad to lease it for 18 months at the prices people are paying in the forums. The first "deal sheet" the salesperson presented was for a 36 month lease, and they only offered $6,600 for the Volt, which is considerably less than Carmax or Carvana ($8,000 and $8,200). No big deal, I can just sell the Volt to one of them and still take advantage of the incentives, and the $3,373 "dealer discount" the dealer was offering.

Under those terms, the deal came back at $515-525 per month for 18 months (I guess when you're a crook, you don't want to get too exact). I realized there was something very off with the numbers and asked for the keys to the Volt and my license to leave. The manager came out and tried to explain that they weren't marking up the money factor and that the "dealer discount" they advertised was actually using some of Nissan's incentive money. He also claimed there is only a $99 difference between invoice and MSRP on that car.

A discussion of how dealers are providing substantial discounts (often 11% off MSRP) on top of all of Nissan's advertised incentives because nobody is buying these vehicles would not have been productive, so I left. I hope it sits on their lot until well after the 2025s are out.

stickguy

Love that red on the outback. Good luck with it!

stickguy

I had a 240 outlet out in the garage of the new house. Won’t have any use for it but at least now if I get a plug in, all I need is to get the head unit, screw it to the wall, and plug it in! I think.

xwesx

benjaminh said:

Although my wife seriously considered a 2025 Camry hybrid, the Toyota dealer's high prices, and even more my wife's desire for an all-wheel-drive station wagon, in the end ruled the day. Below are pix of my wife's new 2024 Outback in Crimson Pearl with option package 15. List price was $36k exactly, but they took $2000 off list and we got the 1.9% financing from Subaru (Financing from Toyota would have been 5%, costing around $2.5k more in interest). Was a pleasant buying experience overall, although as usual it took a long time. After the test drive I let my wife take off in her current car, the CR-V that we are lending long-term to our daughter who just graduated from college, while I did the paperwork. When it was all done I drove home in my Acura, while our salesperson kindly drove my wife's car to her. As Consumer Reports has said a few times, the Outback has a surprisingly "luxury" ride. It's kinda like the Subaru Buick wagon from my pov. Anyway, we like it, and our car search is finally done. We did get the 10 year/100k Subaru Gold warranty with 0 deductible for $2500. Covers almost everything. Haven't bought car warranties lately, but with the worries about the CR-V's 1.5 turbo I kinda wish I had for that one. Anyway, some peace of mind, since we hope to keep her new Outback long-term.

Congrats, @benjaminh ! Looks lovely. I hope y'all enjoy it!

That's a great prices on the Gold 0/100 warranty, too.

qbrozen

@Michaell said:
Like I said earlier, it's about 22 miles R/T from home to the studio. Should be able to cover that on EV only, every time they go in, and charge overnight from a wall socket - easily 12 hours or more of charge time.

Not sure if we need an L2 charger, but they are installed for free (with a lifetime warranty) from the local utility, for a $14/mo service charge on my monthly bill. They'll do all the electrical work from my panel, as well.

How many months before they take that charge off? Or is this a rental like having a cable box on your tv?

greg128

benjaminh said:

Although my wife seriously considered a 2025 Camry hybrid, the Toyota dealer's high prices, and even more my wife's desire for an all-wheel-drive station wagon, in the end ruled the day. Below are pix of my wife's new 2024 Outback in Crimson Pearl with option package 15. List price was $36k exactly, but they took $2000 off list and we got the 1.9% financing from Subaru (Financing from Toyota would have been 5%, costing around $2.5k more in interest). Was a pleasant buying experience overall, although as usual it took a long time. After the test drive I let my wife take off in her current car, the CR-V that we are lending long-term to our daughter who just graduated from college, while I did the paperwork. When it was all done I drove home in my Acura, while our salesperson kindly drove my wife's car to her. As Consumer Reports has said a few times, the Outback has a surprisingly "luxury" ride. It's kinda like the Subaru Buick wagon from my pov. Anyway, we like it, and our car search is finally done. We did get the 10 year/100k Subaru Gold warranty with 0 deductible for $2500. Covers almost everything. Haven't bought car warranties lately, but with the worries about the CR-V's 1.5 turbo I kinda wish I had for that one. Anyway, some peace of mind, since we hope to keep her new Outback long-term.

Good luck with the new Subaru. My SIL has one I think the 2023 with very nice brownish orange leather and the turbo engine. She says it is very quick . It has the white exterior with the black trim. A bit of a stark contrast but still attractively distinctive. The interior is very nice with a large infotainment screen. I think she paid in the mid $40K range. Ironically she and her husband mostly use their 2016 Outback with about 120K to get around, which I don't understand as I would prefer to drive the new vehicle. I do think however that she uses the 2023 to get to work.

nyccarguy

@benjaminh - congrats on the Outback! You are doing a wonderful thing by lending your wife’s CRV to her long term! Can’t wait to hear some of your driving impressions!

nyccarguy

It has been a very exciting and emotional couple of days here in the Levin household. After struggling for years both academically and socially in the public schools, my wife and I made the decision to enroll our oldest son in private school after his Autism diagnosis starting with his Junior year of high school. It wasn’t easy and he worked incredibly hard over the past 2 years. He graduated yesterday! We couldn’t be prouder of him.

This morning, the mechanic who worked on my Prelude had to pick up some parts for his S2000 not too far from me, so he picked me up and drove me back to his house. He showed me what he replaced and added, then sent me away in the Prelude with a clean bill of health. It was about an hour drive home on mostly back roads. The car drives great and I can’t wait to drive it for the duration of the spring & summer.

jmonroe1

@benjaminh, good looking Outback that’s pretty close to the color of Mrs. j’s 2018 Legacy. May you have the success with your Outback that we've had with the two Legacies we’ve owned. @venture has had even more.

As I’ve said before, a Subie might just be the best grocery getter you can buy.

Again, good luck with it.

jmonroe

benjaminh

@nyccarguy That's wonderful about your son's achievements, as well as your support for him. And that Prelude still looks great, and I'm sure is fun to drive. I remember in high school (c. 1981) being in the back seat of a new Prelude while a friend drove (it was his father's car). It was fun, but kind-of a tight fit for me lol. But what a precision-engineered car it was for the time.

roadburner

@nyccarguy - congratulations on your son's success. And I know it's great to get the Prelude back.

laurasdada

Congrats to Benjamin and NYC!

Michaell

Bad news today.

Kia salesman called; the blue Sportage plug in we’ve been eyeing showed up earlier than expected and was sold today. The next one they are getting is in 4 weeks and is red (no go on the color).

Back to the drawing board. This was the only dealer in Denver pricing these under MSRP. One dealer is at sticker, but no real inventory, and the rest seem to be $1-2k over sticker.

Michaell

@benjaminh - congrats on the new Subaru. I assume I’m this is the 2.5.

There is a pretty active Outback owners group on FB, if you’re interested.

breld

@nyccarguy - congrats on your son’s graduation!

stickguy

Good news Bradd. and make sure to drive that Prelude regularly and don't let it fall into decay again!

Michael, you know the rule. If you want something, put down money and get it in writing. Especially in a tight market. And what's the matter with red? That looks cool! Pilly kid.

suydam

Michaell said:

Bad news today.

Kia salesman called; the blue Sportage plug in we’ve been eyeing showed up earlier than expected and was sold today. The next one they are getting is in 4 weeks and is red (no go on the color).

Back to the drawing board. This was the only dealer in Denver pricing these under MSRP. One dealer is at sticker, but no real inventory, and the rest seem to be $1-2k over sticker.

That’s how it is here. The PHEVs sell quickly, and there is no question of a color choice. I liked that pretty blue as well, but when we got there it had been sold and there was a new one in basic black. I’m actually fine with black and I think it looks good on this vehicle, fortunately.
We also found the one dealer who wasn’t marking up.
So if she likes the Sportage PHEV, that’s how it’s gonna roll. The Hyundai Tucson PHEV is basically the same vehicle, but the same circumstances prevail there as well and it may be a little more expensive. Maybe she would like a less popular Kia or Hyundai. You can probably buy a Sonata or any sedan anywhere and get a good deal.

jmonroe1

@nyccarguy, congrats to your son and have a good time this Summer with the Prelude.

jmonroe

oldfarmer50

benjaminh said:

Although my wife seriously considered a 2025 Camry hybrid, the Toyota dealer's high prices, and even more my wife's desire for an all-wheel-drive station wagon, in the end ruled the day. Below are pix of my wife's new 2024 Outback Premium in Crimson Pearl with option package 15. List price was $36k exactly, but they took $2000 off list and we got the 1.9% financing from Subaru (Financing from Toyota would have been 5%, costing around $2.5k more in interest). Was a pleasant buying experience overall, although as usual it took a long time. After the test drive I let my wife take off in her current car, the CR-V that we are lending long-term to our daughter who just graduated from college, while I did the paperwork. When it was all done I drove home in my Acura, while our salesperson kindly drove my wife's car to her. As Consumer Reports has said a few times, the Outback has a surprisingly "luxury" ride. It's kinda like the Subaru Buick wagon from my pov. Anyway, we like it, and our car search is finally done. We did get the 10 year/100k Subaru Gold warranty with 0 deductible for $2500. Covers almost everything. Haven't bought car warranties lately, but with the worries about the CR-V's 1.5 turbo I kinda wish I had for that one. Anyway, some peace of mind, since we hope to keep her new Outback long-term.

That’s a great color. As to the extended warranty, do you usually keep your cars to 100k miles?

oldfarmer50

Michaell said:

Bad news today.

Kia salesman called; the blue Sportage plug in we’ve been eyeing showed up earlier than expected and was sold today. The next one they are getting is in 4 weeks and is red (no go on the color).

Back to the drawing board. This was the only dealer in Denver pricing these under MSRP. One dealer is at sticker, but no real inventory, and the rest seem to be $1-2k over sticker.

$1-2k over sticker for a Kia? Times have changed. My Kia stickered for $22k but I got it for around $18k which included a $2k rebate. They accepted my offer with no fuss.

suydam

I am assuming this is pre-pandemic. Those days are over. My daughter told me she feels sorry for anyone our age shopping for cars now, because we expect an ability to negotiate that just doesn’t exist for popular vehicles. Invoice is out the window. Markups from MSRP are common. It’s starting to improve, but it’s still not great.

corvette

suydam said:

...because we expect an ability to negotiate that just doesn’t exist for popular vehicles.

Or even for unpopular electric vehicles that are two model years old.

stickguy

The youngsters should be in their element, with so much done online now. "Old people" our age can handle that too I think. Maybe not the 80+ crowd like JMonroe but 60-somethings are used to technology!

I'm still amazed that in the middle of Covid craziness, on what for 2 years was the hottest, hard to get vehicle, I found a dealer that would sell back of invoice with absolutely no games, and not one add-on pad item. And that was done entirely via email/text. I never set foot in that dealer until I went to pick up the truck, and never did meet the manager that did all the deals.

The Acura was all online stuff too though I did go in person to that dealer to look and have initial chat. Then moved to Carmax and Truecar for pricing that ended up being the deal (since they were the true car dealer, and they advertised they would honor carmax offers since it was literally across the street). But I was a kid in my 50s then!

stickguy

suydam said:

I am assuming this is pre-pandemic. Those days are over. My daughter told me she feels sorry for anyone our age shopping for cars now, because we expect an ability to negotiate that just doesn’t exist for popular vehicles. Invoice is out the window. Markups from MSRP are common. It’s starting to improve, but it’s still not great.

forgot to add, you can deal old school. Just not necessarily on what you want. Some dealers have plenty of inventory and have to be dealing.

Michaell

Yeah - what @suydam said. The Sportage PHEV is popular and there aren’t many around, so markups are common.

But, we did narrow the color choice down to blue or white. Dealer closest to us has 3 of the blue, each of which have a $2k markup. A dealer in Denver (maybe another 10-12 miles up the road) has a blue for $1500 over sticker.

She likes the look of the Sportage over the Tucson, but yes, they are effectively the same vehicle.

Shopping for a car used to be fun.

stickguy

it still is! once I finally get this house nonsense over with, looking forward to getting back on that horse!

color is more important to some people I guess. But her money.

if those other dealers have what you want, they obviously aren't selling for their price if on the lot, so just go in, point at the sticker price dealer and say meet that and we buy, and see what happens. Leave your phone number if needed. Might work!

and check the buying services. entirely possibly one of those dealers is a true car or one of those other services places. And always go on to the website for the special online offer (man did I save my inlaw to be a fortune doing that on a Honda!)

suydam

They may have what you want but it just arrived a day ago and will be sold two days later. That’s the case with the Sportage we originally looked at as well as the one we bought. Now the Blazer EV was a whole different story. So it’s just depends on how popular the particular vehicle you want is.
We did get the Kia for $1500 below MSRP which I consider a good deal after checking out several dealers.

Michaell

That’s what I’m thinking, stick. They have over a dozen of the X-Lines on the lot, so they aren’t moving with the markup.

Step 1 is to see if the daughter likes the blue color. My plan to to arrange for a test drive tomorrow afternoon and bring it to the house (not far away) and let the daughter look at and drive it.

benjaminh

oldfarmer50 said:

That’s a great color. As to the extended warranty, do you usually keep your cars to 100k miles?

Sometimes we get close. My Acura TLX currently has 77,500 miles, and I hope to take it beyond 150k (knock on wood). Both my 2002 Accord and 2008 Accord got to around 90k by the time we traded them in. But sometimes we buy cars thinking we'll go to 100k, but then trade them in well before that. My spouse has said she imagines keeping the Outback for a long time, but who knows what the future holds.

corvette

@Michaell - will the markup dealer that has inventory not budge at all on the markup? Sometimes, markups can be a trick to get the uninformed to pay more (but the informed will get a fair deal), but other times, it seems to indicate the dealer is fixated on getting their demanded price.

Michaell

corvette said:

@Michaell - will the markup dealer that has inventory not budge at all on the markup? Sometimes, markups can be a trick to get the uninformed to pay more (but the informed will get a fair deal), but other times, it seems to indicate the dealer is fixated on getting their demanded price.

I haven't spoken to them yet, so I don't know which it is. But, it's a local owner ("Dealin' Doug"), not a conglomerate - not sure if that helps or hurts.

If she likes the color and the way it drives, then we can talk price.

ronsteve

sda said:

oldfarmer50 said:

sda said:

It seems some dealers are starting to feel the pinch as inventory ramps up. I received this today.
Dear STEVEN,
I hope you are having a great day. My name is Alden and I'm the General Sales Manager here at Volkswagen of South Charlotte. The reason you are getting this email is that we accidentally ordered too many new Volkswagens from the factory and our lot is overflowing. We have more vehicles in stock than we have had in years, and we simply don't have room! Because of this, we are offering every new Volkswagen in stock at INVOICE price THIS WEEK ONLY. That's invoice, not MSRP.

That’s assuming invoice means the same thing to you as it does to the dealer.

As an aside, my son just passed thru Charlotte and was nearly stranded there after his flight from Las Vegas was delayed 4 hours and he missed his connection. That’s a pretty good sized airport you have there although the kid says the Vegas airport is bigger.

Sorry to learn your son missed his connection. Never good. Weather delay somewhere? The Charlotte airport has grown tremendously in size and volume in the past 20 years. It is impressive, yet I don't like going there much as it is always crowded, heavy traffic and parking has become an expensive hassle.

From that side of the equation, I can see the gripe with just about any hub airport. That being said, if you're making a connection, CLT is one of the more pleasant places to do so, especially compared to other AA hubs. (DFW you just hope you're on something big enough to go through the D concourse, ORD and PHL are pretty dumpy.) The rocking chairs upstairs at CLT are a nice touch.

suydam

corvette said:

@Michaell - will the markup dealer that has inventory not budge at all on the markup? Sometimes, markups can be a trick to get the uninformed to pay more (but the informed will get a fair deal), but other times, it seems to indicate the dealer is fixated on getting their demanded price.

That’s true. First thing I asked about with the Blazer was to take the markup off and they agreed right away. So why annoy people by adding it in the first place? At least the Kia dealer didn’t do that.
And if they have multiple X Lines on the lot they should drop it a thou at least off MSRP too.

venture

corvette said:

No sale on the Electric Talltima. It drove fine and I would have been glad to lease it for 18 months at the prices people are paying in the forums. The first "deal sheet" the salesperson presented was for a 36 month lease, and they only offered $6,600 for the Volt, which is considerably less than Carmax or Carvana ($8,000 and $8,200). No big deal, I can just sell the Volt to one of them and still take advantage of the incentives, and the $3,373 "dealer discount" the dealer was offering.

Under those terms, the deal came back at $515-525 per month for 18 months (I guess when you're a crook, you don't want to get too exact). I realized there was something very off with the numbers and asked for the keys to the Volt and my license to leave. The manager came out and tried to explain that they weren't marking up the money factor and that the "dealer discount" they advertised was actually using some of Nissan's incentive money. He also claimed there is only a $99 difference between invoice and MSRP on that car.

A discussion of how dealers are providing substantial discounts (often 11% off MSRP) on top of all of Nissan's advertised incentives because nobody is buying these vehicles would not have been productive, so I left. I hope it sits on their lot until well after the 2025s are out.

I never discuss money with anyone at a dealership if I don't have my keys and anything else they think they need of mine.