Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

stickguy

leasing is just a way of financing. for 3 years, you pay interest and the car depreciates. If you but a car with a 3 year loan, at the end of 3 years, you pay interest and it depreciates the same way. Only difference is you also pay principal along the way instead of putting that money in the bank. So say you paid 30K for a car and after 3 years it is worth 20K. Or you leased it for $290/month, and turned it in after 3 years. either way, you spent about $10k on it.

roadburner

I had a weird ding on the LR quarter of the C43- too high for a door ding. My PDR guy who works at BMW eliminated it completely.

qbrozen

@stickguy said:
leasing is just a way of financing. for 3 years, you pay interest and the car depreciates. If you but a car with a 3 year loan, at the end of 3 years, you pay interest and it depreciates the same way. Only difference is you also pay principal along the way instead of putting that money in the bank. So say you paid 30K for a car and after 3 years it is worth 20K. Or you leased it for $290/month, and turned it in after 3 years. either way, you spent about $10k on it.

Yup. If you are after a new car, leasing can be great. I’m happy not having payments right now (although my wife technically has 2).

corvette

I don’t think Nissan allows purchases at the end of EV leases, so that’s an additional consideration—if you leased something like a Tacoma and decided you wanted to keep it at the end of the lease, that was an option you’d normally have.

suydam

Took the Blazer EV for a short day trip (160 mi. Round trip). Gave a friend a ride to a city where we have friends, had lunch there and had a nice visit, and drove back home again. What a great driving vehicle! Charged to 80% at a public charger before we left and will probably charge again later this week. We haven’t installed a 240 v charger yet in our garage, but we have only driven it around town till now. This is just the second time we’ve charged it.

xwesx

Oldfarmer, that lease sounds tempting, but not if you have to sell your soul to get it.

tifighter

Is anyone else able to get through this cloudflare filter more than 50% of the time? I click the verification box and it just spins and spins. It’s making visits here harder and harder…

xwesx

It's definitely doing odd things. I don't seem to need to click anything most of the time, but it is definitely interfering with my typical navigation techniques (e.g., lots of refreshing and "back" button clicks....).

corvette

@tifighter - the algorithm must see the titanium in your profile pic and assume you're a robot.

laurasdada

corvette said:

@tifighter - the algorithm must see the titanium in your profile pic and assume you're a robot.

You mean a droid?

28firefighter

I have zero issues. Accessing from Chrome on my Mac laptop and Safari from my iOS devices.

oldfarmer50

tifighter said:

Is anyone else able to get through this cloudflare filter more than 50% of the time? I click the verification box and it just spins and spins. It’s making visits here harder and harder…

Try backspacing. I did that the first time when it was spinning and it immediately said I was verified. I don’t know why.

jmonroe1

oldfarmer50 said:

tifighter said:

Is anyone else able to get through this cloudflare filter more than 50% of the time? I click the verification box and it just spins and spins. It’s making visits here harder and harder…

Try backspacing. I did that the first time when it was spinning and it immediately said I was verified. I don’t know why.

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Each time you back up you relinquish more and more of you personal data. Since they don’t want to discourage this action they let you in.

jmonroe

Kirstie_H

tifighter said:

Is anyone else able to get through this cloudflare filter more than 50% of the time? I click the verification box and it just spins and spins. It’s making visits here harder and harder…

It is SO annoying! We've been working with Vanilla for about a week now, trying to get them to remove this filter. They implemented it because they claim we were receiving a fairly high volume of requests from bots, but it's not only causing annoyances for our forums users, but is affecting some of our internal metrics tools. HOPEFULLY it will be resolved in the next day or two.

oldfarmer50

jmonroe1 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

tifighter said:

Is anyone else able to get through this cloudflare filter more than 50% of the time? I click the verification box and it just spins and spins. It’s making visits here harder and harder…

Try backspacing. I did that the first time when it was spinning and it immediately said I was verified. I don’t know why.

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Each time you back up you relinquish more and more of you personal data. Since they don’t want to discourage this action they let you in.

jmonroe

So they’re out to get me AGAIN? 😫
Yesterday the crew went to a new sub shop and we were all invited to register for some kind of sub club. I declined since you had to give them personal info like emails and phone numbers. The others willingly gave up the information and will now be deluged with spam.

While I don’t really think the CIA is tracking people through a sandwich rewards program I dislike the gathering of marketing profiles under the guise of giving you freebies. The dealer where I bought my truck tried using information gleaned from my drivers license to advertise to me. I told them I didn’t appreciate that.

tjc78

If I had to worry about all the parties that had my email and phone number … I’d be a panicked person

If they want to email me, I skip over it. Call/text … I ignore it.

They can get your phone number and email address by just Googling your name in most cases.

It’s just like the guys that blur their license plate on photos. Why? Everyone and anyone see it all day long on the road.

ab348

As Archie Bunker famously said, "I ain't paranoid!!! Why are you all against me?"

laurasdada

I'd give up a few body parts for free stuff!
For those unsure, I am kidding.
But I am a member of many "frequent eaters" clubs, free stuff makes my life worth living. Come my birthday, it's a month of free for alls!

I don't find myself inundated with emails, texts, calls. Easy enough to deal with any unwanted comms; delete, ignore, block, spam folder...

If it's free, it's for me!

tjc78

If you eat anywhere often and they have a loyalty program it’s well worth to be in enrolled.

Several members of my team are road warriors (40+ weeks a year) and they all have enough points at CFA, etc to eat for free when not traveling if they want to.

Without saying same goes for rental cars, hotels etc. my guys drive nothing but the executive collection from National and always have good seats on the plane

28firefighter

Even just living on the west coast, my wife and I have enough points with airlines, rental car companies etc for status.

corvette

I don’t really travel for work, but travel enough to get a lot of hotel rewards.

oldfarmer50

OK, walk me through this.

In a private sale transaction where the seller still owes money on the car, how do you make sure you end up with a clean title. As I understand it you pay the seller, he pays off the loan and then gives you the title plus a lien release from the lender. Is that correct?

It seems in that scenario you would have to wait a long time before getting the lien release from the lender. Would the lender be able to send a release by email or other electronic means? At least in NY the seller holds the physical title with the lien holder listed so all you need is the release of lien letter to register the car.

Are there any pitfalls to watch out for when making this kind of transaction? I’ve always bought cars that were unencumbered by outstanding loans.

jmonroe1

tjc78 said:

If you eat anywhere often and they have a loyalty program it’s well worth to be in enrolled.

Several members of my team are road warriors (40+ weeks a year) and they all have enough points at CFA, etc to eat for free when not traveling if they want to.

Without saying same goes for rental cars, hotels etc. my guys drive nothing but the executive collection from National and always have good seats on the plane

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You couldn’t pay me enough to travel that much.

When I was a working stiff both as a grunt and management I did my best to get out of traveling. As a result I never had to take overseas trips. Always found a way to convince my boss that I could get more done by staying in the office than making boon dogle visits to see our customers. That tactic didn’t work so well when it came to visiting some of our major suppliers in southern CA. Unfortunately, I made far too many trips there.

Every time I turned down a trip to Japan I was reminded that I was missing out on going to some terrific Kobe beef steakhouses. You can’t win them all but I tried.

jmonroe

tifighter

28firefighter said:

I have zero issues. Accessing from Chrome on my Mac laptop and Safari from my iOS devices.

No issue from my PC, but always issues from Safari on iOS for me.

ab348

oldfarmer50 said:

OK, walk me through this.

In a private sale transaction where the seller still owes money on the car, how do you make sure you end up with a clean title. As I understand it you pay the seller, he pays off the loan and then gives you the title plus a lien release from the lender. Is that correct?

It seems in that scenario you would have to wait a long time before getting the lien release from the lender. Would the lender be able to send a release by email or other electronic means? At least in NY the seller holds the physical title with the lien holder listed so all you need is the release of lien letter to register the car.

Are there any pitfalls to watch out for when making this kind of transaction? I’ve always bought cars that were unencumbered by outstanding loans.

I should know how that works, but I don’t. I imagine the lender would take some time to get the actual lien release from the registry. Perhaps a copy of the lender’s confirmation of receipt of the outstanding amount? That’s not the official release but should provide some reassurance.

xwesx

oldfarmer50 said:

OK, walk me through this.

In a private sale transaction where the seller still owes money on the car, how do you make sure you end up with a clean title. As I understand it you pay the seller, he pays off the loan and then gives you the title plus a lien release from the lender. Is that correct?

It seems in that scenario you would have to wait a long time before getting the lien release from the lender. Would the lender be able to send a release by email or other electronic means? At least in NY the seller holds the physical title with the lien holder listed so all you need is the release of lien letter to register the car.

Are there any pitfalls to watch out for when making this kind of transaction? I’ve always bought cars that were unencumbered by outstanding loans.

I think it varies by the jurisdiction to some extent. In many locations, the lienholder has physical possession of the issued title, which they then sign off and return to the owner when the debt is paid. On the few occasions when I have done a transaction involving a vehicle with a lien, I met the other party at the the lender's location (any location will do) where we filled out some paperwork that allowed the lender to both settle the lien for the debtor and release the title to the buyer.

In one instance, the institution had the title at that location, which they then transferred to the buyer (as well as processed the Motor Vehicles record change) all at the same time. The one time I bought a car that had a lien, I just took the paperwork the bank provided me, kept it in the vehicle, then did the title transfer at the DMV when the title came in the mail about ten days later.

28firefighter

@tifighter said:
No issue from my PC, but always issues from Safari on iOS for me.

Well, what “sussy” (as my son would say) things are you doing on your phone?

qbrozen

@oldfarmer50 said:
OK, walk me through this.

In a private sale transaction where the seller still owes money on the car, how do you make sure you end up with a clean title. As I understand it you pay the seller, he pays off the loan and then gives you the title plus a lien release from the lender. Is that correct?

It seems in that scenario you would have to wait a long time before getting the lien release from the lender. Would the lender be able to send a release by email or other electronic means? At least in NY the seller holds the physical title with the lien holder listed so all you need is the release of lien letter to register the car.

Are there any pitfalls to watch out for when making this kind of transaction? I’ve always bought cars that were unencumbered by outstanding loans.

There are online services you can find with google. Alternatively, your bank likely offers such service. Like a dealer, they have the seller sign a limited power of attorney and take care of all the payoffs and paperwork for you.

stickguy

Too many horror stories out there for me to risk it. There are (well, used to be!) plenty of used cars out there to not need to deal with this. Plus in NJ where I did the bulk of my buying the lender held the title and pretty sure you needed that hard copy back stamped released before the DMV would even look at you.

I never tried to private sale with a loan. Only did that after it was paid off and I had title in hand.

oldfarmer50

stickguy said:

Too many horror stories out there for me to risk it. There are (well, used to be!) plenty of used cars out there to not need to deal with this. Plus in NJ where I did the bulk of my buying the lender held the title and pretty sure you needed that hard copy back stamped released before the DMV would even look at you.

I never tried to private sale with a loan. Only did that after it was paid off and I had title in hand.

Yeah, seems to be a chicken or egg problem. Do you give the seller money to pay off the loan or do you expect the seller to pay it off first. On one hand you may never see your money again but the seller might not otherwise have the funds to pay off the loan.

tifighter

28firefighter said:

@tifighter said:

No issue from my PC, but always issues from Safari on iOS for me.

Well, what “sussy” (as my son would say) things are you doing on your phone?

Talking to you lot, I suspect.

tifighter

Final tally for our roadtrip - 2220 miles driven. 6 mountain passes (including Teton pass and its 10% grade), and the continental divide twice. 80mph speed limits in Montana, Wyoming, Utah and Idaho.

38.7 mpg. Slow golf clap for Toyota here, I'm impressed...

andres3

Always found those "I owe this much on the car $xxxx" ads a turnoff. " I don't care what you owe. I only care what it's worth.

nyccarguy

Cool shot of an SL parked on a cobblestone street in New York City.

tjc78

@tifighter said:
Final tally for our roadtrip - 2220 miles driven. 6 mountain passes (including Teton pass and its 10% grade), and the continental divide twice. 80mph speed limits in Montana, Wyoming, Utah and Idaho.

38.7 mpg. Slow golf clap for Toyota here, I'm impressed...

Driving through Montana is something else … I once went over 90 miles and never touched the pedals using regular cruise control.

I was there a lot in the early 2000s for work.

I would love to do stores there again so I could go exploring lol

jmonroe1

nyccarguy said:

Cool shot of an SL parked on a cobblestone street in New York City.

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Is it still there?

jmonroe

greg1288

oldfarmer50 said:

OK, walk me through this.

In a private sale transaction where the seller still owes money on the car, how do you make sure you end up with a clean title. As I understand it you pay the seller, he pays off the loan and then gives you the title plus a lien release from the lender. Is that correct?

It seems in that scenario you would have to wait a long time before getting the lien release from the lender. Would the lender be able to send a release by email or other electronic means? At least in NY the seller holds the physical title with the lien holder listed so all you need is the release of lien letter to register the car.

Are there any pitfalls to watch out for when making this kind of transaction? I’ve always bought cars that were unencumbered by outstanding loans.

Wife and I bought both of our 2 sons their first cars - used of course. About 20 years ago I found a nice Pontiac Sunfire with manual transmission for $4500. It looked and ran great so decided to buy it. The seller presented himself as a dealer from Florida. We withdrew the cash from the bank account we had for that purpose and handed it to him. He gave us a bill of sale and temporary Florida plates so we could drive it right away. He told us he would have the title for us in a few days.

Well that turned out to be months. It turns out the temporary plates were fake, he was a drug addict and had convinced a NYS registered dealer to sell it for them. Needless to say the $4500 went up his nose and never gave the money to the dealer. I opened a formal complaint with DMV and took the car off the road and brought it to my BIL's and hid it in a horse barn in the back of his house. We finally went to court, proved to the judge that we had indeed given the cash to this criminal (luckily we had a withdrawal slip and a bill of sale for exactly $4500) and the dealer was forced to return our money. Unfortunately he took the loss and came and picked up the car.

Since then I have not and will not buy a car from anyone other than a registered dealer. If buying from a private party make sure you have the signed clear title in hand.

stickguy

Zero chance a stranger is getting my money unless I have the title in hand first. If they want it to be a trust me situation, then can give me the car and as soon as DMV puts it in my name I promise to give them their money.

qbrozen

Absurdity of the day, thanks to who else but the MVC. These 2 pieces of paper arrived in one envelope today:

au1994

greg1288 said:

oldfarmer50 said:

OK, walk me through this.

In a private sale transaction where the seller still owes money on the car, how do you make sure you end up with a clean title. As I understand it you pay the seller, he pays off the loan and then gives you the title plus a lien release from the lender. Is that correct?

It seems in that scenario you would have to wait a long time before getting the lien release from the lender. Would the lender be able to send a release by email or other electronic means? At least in NY the seller holds the physical title with the lien holder listed so all you need is the release of lien letter to register the car.

Are there any pitfalls to watch out for when making this kind of transaction? I’ve always bought cars that were unencumbered by outstanding loans.

Wife and I bought both of our 2 sons their first cars - used of course. About 20 years ago I found a nice Pontiac Sunfire with manual transmission for $4500. It looked and ran great so decided to buy it. The seller presented himself as a dealer from Florida. We withdrew the cash from the bank account we had for that purpose and handed it to him. He gave us a bill of sale and temporary Florida plates so we could drive it right away. He told us he would have the title for us in a few days.

Well that turned out to be months. It turns out the temporary plates were fake, he was a drug addict and had convinced a NYS registered dealer to sell it for them. Needless to say the $4500 went up his nose and never gave the money to the dealer. I opened a formal complaint with DMV and took the car off the road and brought it to my BIL's and hid it in a horse barn in the back of his house. We finally went to court, proved to the judge that we had indeed given the cash to this criminal (luckily we had a withdrawal slip and a bill of sale for exactly $4500) and the dealer was forced to return our money. Unfortunately he took the loss and came and picked up the car.

Since then I have not and will not buy a car from anyone other than a registered dealer. If buying from a private party make sure you have the signed clear title in hand.

This is why I don’t mind paying a little more at a reputable dealer.

I’d have an absolute come apart on somebody and I’m too pretty to go to jail.

jmonroe1

stickguy said:

Zero chance a stranger is getting my money unless I have the title in hand first. If they want it to be a trust me situation, then can give me the car and as soon as DMV puts it in my name I promise to give them their money.

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It sounds like you practice the “promises, promises method”.

FWIW, I believe in that method too.

jmonroe

stickguy

All this discussion on used car nightmares makes me remember why I just gave up and spend more to buy new ones instead!

oldfarmer50

The original question I asked was prompted by my desire to at some point buy a car owned by a coworker. It was more of a logistical question of how you would arrange the pay off and what delays you might encounter. I suppose the best way would be to go with this seller to the bank who holds the lien and be present. I would write him a check and then he would in my presence write them a check for the payoff. I assume the bank could then issue a lien release then and there or shortly after. In NY the borrower actually holds the physical title so he could sign it over to me at that time and once the lien release is issued the car would be ready to register.

Am I missing anything?

I would only do this kind of deal with somebody I trust.

stickguy

that makes a difference (knowing the guy). And NY being a state where he has the title. Assuming the bank can do the lien release on the spot, sounds like you would bring a bank check for the payoff amount made out to the bank, and a side check to him for the balance. That seems doable.

xwesx

stickguy said:

that makes a difference (knowing the guy). And NY being a state where he has the title. Assuming the bank can do the lien release on the spot, sounds like you would bring a bank check for the payoff amount made out to the bank, and a side check to him for the balance. That seems doable.

Yeah, that's the thing about being at the lienholder institution - you don't have to make a check out to the other party; you can just pay off the lien to the bank directly. The biggest thing about buying a used car, regardless of the vehicle history itself, is that if your spidey senses start tingling, it's time to pull the plug.

Never ignore red flags.

breld

Speaking of title issues, we have yet to register my wife’s Model Y, purchased back in December. She continues to hound Tesla as to what’s going on and has had to make multiple trips to the DMV to get extended temp tags.

Well, yesterday, we received a letter via UPS from Tesla stating that the leasing company has revoked their contract due to “our failure” to register the vehicle, and that Tesla would be finding a new financing company to take over the lease.

After some calls and email exchanges with Tesla to clarify where the fault lies, the end result is they offered to take the car back, obviously without any penalties or fees. We suspect there was something off with that vehicle…like there was some mix-up with the VIN, and their “offer” is really a way for them to get the vehicle back and avoid any additional issues.

So…we’re shopping for a new EV.

kyfdx

Wow

tjc78

@breld said:
Speaking of title issues, we have yet to register my wife’s Model Y, purchased back in December. She continues to hound Tesla as to what’s going on and has had to make multiple trips to the DMV to get extended temp tags.

Well, yesterday, we received a letter via UPS from Tesla stating that the leasing company has revoked their contract due to “our failure” to register the vehicle, and that Tesla would be finding a new financing company to take over the lease.

After some calls and email exchanges with Tesla to clarify where the fault lies, the end result is they offered to take the car back, obviously without any penalties or fees. We suspect there was something off with that vehicle…like there was some mix-up with the VIN, and their “offer” is really a way for them to get the vehicle back and avoid any additional issues.

So…we’re shopping for a new EV.

I mean at the end of the day … this would have been the outcome around this time anyway!

In all seriousness I’ve never heard of such madness… except with our golf cart.

We played hell trying to get that registered and had three different titles and it was re-vinned by the manufacturer and even the year changed. We didn’t fight it, it is legal and has a tag.

corvette

What a mess! I pinged the Nissan dealer yesterday about the registration on the Ariya and they replied that they are working on it, but are backed up. Not that they could have done it anyway, as the Jefferson County Clerk has had issues transitioning to new software, and just this week was hit with a ransomware attack.

suydam

Wow. I’ve never heard of anything like that. What are you looking at?