Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

stever

Usually just read Amazon reviews. :-)

(Don't you wish they sold cars?).

The forums at Cooksillustrated.com work too, although I can't see paying $100 for a Krups TT9300.

roadburner

That color is Imola Red.. It's the only non-M 3-series that comes in that color... someone else I know has an Imola Red ZHP...

Swope had an Imola 330xi on its used lot 3 or 4 years ago. I don't think it was an Individual car.
Strange...

qbrozen

The key to this high-turnover game is finding cars that can be expected to hold their value well, Holland said.

I find that quite amusing when the top pic is of him with a Challenger.

breld

The article noted that most of the recent cars he's had were leases, which he trades out of early - making up the difference, I presume, with cash.

If this is his only vice, then why not? Doesn't say he is in any other sort of financial hole - large student loans, big mortgage, maxed out credit cards.

I agree with Michael. Knowing nothing else, if he's merely paying out, let's say, a thousand or two each year to get out of his lease, and he's faithful to a perpetual monthly car payment budget, he's probably okay. Are there smarter ways to spend his money? Of course - but he's not necessarily heading toward financial ruin. At least, no more than some of us.

I'll speak for myself - clearly the money we've spent (and lost) on car transactions could have been put to better use in terms of savings. But as long as we are saving adequately for retirement, kids college, emergency savings, etc., I'm okay with allocating what is likely a larger proportion of the remainder than most others (members of this forum not withstanding), to cars.

Obviously, when someone is prioritizing inappropriately - like taking out loans they can't pay off, borrowing from retirement to buy a car, etc. - it's a dangerous road. And for all the enabling the folks on this forum can do, I've also seen plenty of examples where someone has at least thrown out the suggestion that a purchase should wait if it sounds like it's not the right time.

breld

Okay, so back to car searches. The beauty of the recent 318ti purchase was that it kept the Miata in the stable, which I enjoy, but remains trade bait.

I've been searching used GTI's for awhile, but since I prefer the newer body style, the used market is pretty limited, once I throw in a couple of preferences on colors and options. So, "just for kicks" my wife and I spent our Friday evening at a VW dealership checking out the new ones. They had one I'd want - 4-door, manual, United Gray, sunroof and nav. Nav's not a requirement, but it's what they had.

Not surprisingly, my wife and I enjoyed the test drive and were interested enough to at least talk numbers. We didn't have the Miata there, but assured of its condition, they came up with a trade offer and were pretty forthright with the GTI pricing. But I was also upfront about not doing a deal that night, and so I don't think I got their best offer, and they said as much.

But basically, I think they could get to the $19k or so on the Miata (that's what the book values say, as well as Q's evaluation), and dealer invoice on the GTI. But that's still about a $8k difference, and I'm not so sure I want to do that. A nice used one, if I could find one, would probably run low $20's, so we're talking as much as a $5-6k difference for the new one. Now you get the full warranty and maintenance that is now included during that period, as well as a brand new car, but I've been so pleased with our recent used purchases, it's hard to accept paying the premium, along with the depreciation, for a new one.

But the wheels are certainly spinning.

And, while checking the receiving lot for any other GTIs, we came upon this.....

breld

During the test drive of the GTI, we drove to their receiving lot, just to see if there were any other colors available. As we drove around, we spotted an '06 330ci coupe, ZHP, white, 62k miles. It hadn't been through any PPI yet, and was taken in by the dealer's Audi partner.

The salesperson inquired with the Audi side as to pricing, and they plan on listing it at $24k. That's crazy high, isn't it? They're obviously counting on an enthusiast paying a premium for it, which they may find I suppose.

Our local BMW dealership recently sold an '06 ZHP coupe, 42k miles, certified, for $22k. So working from that, I would think the lack of CPO warranty and the extra 20k miles amounts to a $2-3k "discount" over that other example.

I did check in with the Audi dealership after our VW visit, simply to express my interest to someone. I made it clear I was very interested, and respectfully shared my thoughts on the pricing. I imagine they'll test the market for a couple of weeks at the inflated pricing and then start coming down.

A straight trade of the Miata for that, I would probably do. Or maybe the GTI. Or....maybe nothing, lest I end up the subject of some news article.

breld

Had some extra time this morning, so washed up the cars, and even applied a quick wax to the 318 and Miata (not that I'm preparing it for trade or anything).

Car pics

michaellno

So, you were at McDonald, eh? Keep us posted on what you end up doing, if anything.

So, some Saturday morning lookie-looing for me.

First stop was the Porsche dealer in the Springs to look at the '03 330i ZHP - the one with the duct tape on the drivers bolster.

First impressions were pretty good on the outside. No parking lot kisses that I could see. Almost new Pirelli P-Zero Neros all around; I didn't realize that they were offset sizes. One owner car - salesman told me he traded it in for a 911 GT3 .. nice upgrade, I would say.

Salesman didn't know what was under the duct tape .. I suspect they are afraid to find out. While I was there, there was another customer who was looking it over as well. He ended up taking it on a drive to show his wife. After he left, the salesman (GM?) told me this was the 3rd time he'd seen the car, and thought he'd make an offer sooner or later. I still don't think it's worth $15K.

Next stop was the Hyundai dealer to peruse the Genesis Coupe. The one I looked at was the 2.0L turbo with a slushbox. Was the premium (?) edition, so had a sticker of $27K, which was inflated to over $29K after the dealer add-ons. I dunno - hard to justify that much cash after having looked at, and driven, CPO BMW's. Was an OK car, but I think I'm too old to play with the "Fast and Furious" crowd.

Last stop - quite by accident - was the Infiniti dealer. They had an '08 G37S Coupe parked out front. Priced a little high for me - $33K, but was very nice, inside and out. Salesman told me it was his personal demo. This was fitted with performance summer tires.

Having a lot of jun looking - no test drives yet, as I'm not that serious at the moment.

At lunch, wife commented that as long as she was comfortable in the passenger seat and the car had adequately sized cupholders (!), she was good to go. Not sure if that translated into a green light to get serious, but I'm going to continue looking.

fezo

At lunch, wife commented that as long as she was comfortable in the passenger seat and the car had adequately sized cupholders (!), she was good to go. Not sure if that translated into a green light to get serious, but I'm going to continue looking.

Must resist. Must resist........

michaellno

Must resist. Must resist........

My problem is that I'm all over the map.

FWD? RWD? AWD?

Coupe? Convertible? Sports Sedan?

Auto? Manual?

New? Used? CPO?

Keep the ION? Trade the ION?

So many choices ..... so many cars.

Geez, I'm so wishy-washy it hurts.

EDIT - I just checked and the Springs BMW dealer still has the '07 328i coupe with sport pkg and stick. 41K miles with an asking price of $23K. Been on the lot for about 3 weeks now.

oregonboy

It sounds like it fits your criteria perfectly! :P

fezo

I just checked and the Springs BMW dealer still has the '07 328i coupe with sport pkg and stick. 41K miles with an asking price of $23K. Been on the lot for about 3 weeks now.

How are the cupholders? :P

roadburner

Beautiful!

roadburner

When I test drove the 325xi at Swope I saw they had a clean 2002 330ci coupe, it kind of looked familiar and today it hit me. It belonged to a friend that I used to work with. Today I called him and yes, it was his old car. He didn't know I was looking for an older car. Swope only gave him $8500 for it and now has it listed for $12,950:



:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

breld

EDIT - I just checked and the Springs BMW dealer still has the '07 328i coupe with sport pkg and stick. 41K miles with an asking price of $23K. Been on the lot for about 3 weeks now.

From the pictures, that one seems really nice. I really like the sport package wheels on the 328 coupe. They've been at that $23k price since it was listed - even at a modest discount, seems like a pretty good deal. The only drawback for a Colorado car is that it's not an xi, but on the coupe it probably doesn't matter as much with regard to resale.

breld

Is that the "Steel Blue" color? I've always liked that color on the BMWs.

michaellno

From the pictures, that one seems really nice. I really like the sport package wheels on the 328 coupe. They've been at that $23k price since it was listed - even at a modest discount, seems like a pretty good deal. The only drawback for a Colorado car is that it's not an xi, but on the coupe it probably doesn't matter as much with regard to resale.

Yeah, I was there the day after they took it on the lot and the salesman said that it wouldn't last a day. Hmmm, it's been 3 weeks now and it's still there .. I'm thinking it may be overpriced a tad.

I'm not as concerned about it being RWD, if I decide to keep the ION. Otherwise, a set of snows would do the trick.

How are the cupholders?

I dunno, fez, I have to admit that I didn't look. Though, given that it's a German car, I'm sure that the cupholders aren't a priority for the BMW engineers.

kyfdx

Our first 3-series ('03 325i Sport) was Steel Blue... a great color.

isellhondas

I don't think I've ever used a cupholder and I have no use for them.

Still, sales have been made and lost over these silly (to me) things.

I would have customers actually count the number of cupholders.

Mercedes refused to install cupholders for years. They thought their customers
should drink coffee at home or in a coffee shop. They laughed at the idea that the silly Americans would want such a thing.

When the US dealers told them of lost sales, they gave in and started putting them in their cars.

Hopefully when I sell our Reatta, this won't be an isssue. It has (gasp) no cupholders!

roadburner

1997 318ti

I'm hoping to take a look at it tomorrow...

kyfdx

Looks really clean... and, nicely optioned for a non-sport (moonroof and cd changer).

Still stuck on a slushbox, huh? I'm surprised the boy doesn't want to drive the 2002...

isellhondas

I have no idea about how desirable or undesirable the four bangers are?

How are they with an automatic?

roadburner

All US spec tis are four cylinders; only Europe got a 325i. The automatics work well, but a manual is a better match to the engine. That said, my wife had a 1998 318ti automatic and it drove pretty well.

corvette

"Hopefully when I sell our Reatta, this won't be an isssue. It has (gasp) no cupholders!"

GM was one of the pioneers in the cupholder wars (I remember ads about the one in the 1994 Camaro being big enough to hold a Big Gulp).

laurasdada

In the process of shopping for a new car for the lovely wife. Audi A7 appeared to be the front runner, but... This weekend she test drove, either with my son and/or I along, a CPO Lexus LS460, new MB E and new BMW535 (all AWD, she insists). The new MB CLS also caught her eye, but I think she's ruled our four seaters.

Surprisigly, our 12 year old son, Mr. Ferrari/Maserati/"Your Jag XK will do until you can afford the Aston Martin you'll be handing down to me in four years" is in love with the Lexus. Lovely wife very much enjoyed it too, it became the new front runner. Until she drove the E and 5. E didn't really move her, although the salesman was very good and MB is offering "Conquest" money. But, the 5, that wowed her. She said it was fun (as I told her it would be compared to the E and, especially, the LS). So, now the 5 is at the top o' the charts (the boy still is stumpin' for the LS) with the Audi A6 on deck for a test drive. Of course, the common denominator? $$$...

To be continued...

robertgr8

i would like to trade in my 05 dakota for a used 05-06-7 truck but do not know which is the best truck out there.would feel more comfortable if anyone has any educated opinion on what brand and what year.thank you robertgr8

isellhondas

Asking a question like this will only get the personal opinion of anyone who responds.

When it comes to cars and even more so, trucks there are strong opinions as to which id "best".

Even me. when it comes to trucks, I give the nod to Ford but there are a lot of Chevy guys out there who will strongly disagree with me. Not too many Dodge guys.

You will need to research this on your own. Narrow it down and drive your top choices. No "bad" choices. Just different ones.

tjc78

What are you planning on doing with it? Is it a work truck? Daily driver or weekend hauler?

If it is your DD and you don't tow with it, the new F150 with either the 3.7 or 3.5L ecoboost are nice trucks and offer decent MPG for a large vehicle..

stickguy

well the obvious question is, since you are willing to get another '05, what is the matter with the '05 you already have?

Defining needs (and especially what is the matter with your current ride necessitating the replacement) is an important first step.

[Deleted User]

I'm in Colorado - does anyone know if I get a tax credit when I trade in a leased vehicle to finance something new, or does it only apply to financed vehicles since I'm currently paying tax on a monthly basis? I might have just answered my own question...

stevedebi

"If it is your DD and you don't tow with it, the new F150 with either the 3.7 or 3.5L ecoboost are nice trucks and offer decent MPG for a large vehicle.. "

He is looking for a used 05-06-07. That rules out any ecoboost.

isellhondas

Yes, you did answer your own question.

Pretty hard to get a tax credit for taxes that have never been paid!

[Deleted User]

Thanks...wishfull thinking I guess :P

kyfdx

'87 325iS

corvette

Looking at that car, how many cars had three-point belts in the center rear in 1987? I know Volvo didn't until sometime after 1990.

breld

Here's the 330ci I saw on the receiving lot of this Audi dealer on Friday. Their pricing is a bit lower than the $24k casually quoted to me then. They're getting the wheels refinished and the car should be back at the dealership by Wednesday, at which time I plan on going to take a look.

white 330ci

Off the cuff, I would think it's a $18-19k car, but I can also see them fetching low $20's if an eager buyer came by. I mean, the 328i coupe Michael's looking at is a generation newer with fewer miles, for $23k or so (asking price). But, of course, the E46 ZHP is a bit harder to come by. If I could hand over the keys to my Miata and drive away with this with no additional out, I'd likely do it.

But then again, the GTI's been on my mind quite a bit.

roadburner

Looking at that car, how many cars had three-point belts in the center rear in 1987? I know Volvo didn't until sometime after 1990.

My 1987 Scorpio had three-point belts and power reclining seats in the rear.

kyfdx

In May of last year... my '06 330Ci ZHP was on a BMW dealer's lot for $23,500... I paid $21K + tax.

At that time, it was still in warranty for two more months, and had previously been CPOed (I was 3rd owner). Also, 40K miles..

So.. I'd agree with your pricing assessment... though, used car prices have firmed up some in the last year.

I really like the white, though... would have picked that over mine, if given the choice.. Also, the description in the ad doesn't match the car.

corvette

"...though, used car prices have firmed up some in the last year."

If TMV is to believed, the trade-in value of my Altima has gone up by about $1,200 in the past few months.

qbrozen

Not fer nuthin, but my personal experience with that dealer has been that the cars never look as good in person. I've gone to see a couple they have advertised as "perfect" only to find cars well below my standards.

jayrider

With the great deals on new Altimas, why aren't you working on a deal ?

qbrozen

hmmm... no mention of ZHP in the ad (also says its an auto, though, so who the hell knows).

How can one be sure it has the package? I see the M steering wheel ... but I believe you could get that as a separate package, no? I know the cars with the alacantra are a dead give away, but this car doesn't have that. So what else do you look for to determine what it really is?

jayrider

If they say it's perfect and it's not you need to file a complaint for false advertising. Since I'm retired, I spend several days a week doing just that.

qbrozen

Maybe I'll do that ... right after I get done writing that letter to Nabisco to add more cheese-substituate substance to their crackers.

jayrider

Heads up on Nabisco -- they never respond to complaints. You can call and tell them how great the psuedo-cheese tastes and get a coupon for a free box. Then take the package on car shopping trips and use it to bribe [tip] the receptionist to connect you with the sales rep who makes the best deal.

breld

hmmm... no mention of ZHP in the ad (also says its an auto, though, so who the hell knows).

How can one be sure it has the package? I see the M steering wheel ... but I believe you could get that as a separate package, no? I know the cars with the alacantra are a dead give away, but this car doesn't have that. So what else do you look for to determine what it really is?

Fair point - for what it's worth, the salesperson who called me yesterday did mention it has the ZHP package, without me bringing it up. Based on the pictures, and my understanding, the lip spoiler, front bumper, "carbon-look" trim, and what appears to be a short shifter all point toward a legitimate ZHP. All those things could be added of course, but I think it's pretty safe to say it's a ZHP. There must be something under the hood that would confirm it for sure.

breld

In May of last year... my '06 330Ci ZHP was on a BMW dealer's lot for $23,500... I paid $21K + tax.

At that time, it was still in warranty for two more months, and had previously been CPOed (I was 3rd owner). Also, 40K miles..

That's good perspective - It's a year later, and this white one has 20k more miles, but given the state of the used car market, I imagine this car may go for about the same as yours. Whether or not I want to spend that is another question.

Thanks,

Bruce

michaellno

Fair point - for what it's worth, the salesperson who called me yesterday did mention it has the ZHP package, without me bringing it up. Based on the pictures, and my understanding, the lip spoiler, front bumper, "carbon-look" trim, and what appears to be a short shifter all point toward a legitimate ZHP. All those things could be added of course, but I think it's pretty safe to say it's a ZHP. There must be something under the hood that would confirm it for sure.

When I looked at the red 330i in Co. Springs, the salesman (mgr?) told me the ZHP package included:

1) M suspension
2) M wheels
3) 10 extra HP
4) sport seats

He claimed that the short shifter is an option, which the red one had.

qbrozen

I believe also the M steering wheel and shift knob. Basically, the M Sport Package + the power bump.

Was it only 10 hp? Thought it was 20 for some reason.

michaellno

Was it only 10 hp? Thought it was 20 for some reason.

I dunno, that's what the salesman at the Porsche dealership told me .. he says he's owned BMW's in the past.