Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

oregonboy

New Akangl pool.... I pick Valentines Day :P

kyfdx

Heck.... I've got Labor Day...

isellhondas

I'll say New Years Day and I'll be curious what the "reason" is this time!

corvette

A friend of mine may be selling their 2005 Maxima. It's in pretty good shape and has heated leather seats, xenon headlights, and a sunroof--three things I wish I had on the Altima. It doesn't have the hideously ugly "whale tail" spoiler which I think became standard in 2006 or 2007.

The downsides are: no keyless ignition, it's four years older than my Altima, and I've heard horror stories about expensive repairs once a Maxima gets to that age.

Should I be interested?

isellhondas

No negatives I've heard of. Maximas are good cars and I think that would be a great upgrade for you assuming you can sell your Altima quickly.

For whatever reason, Nissans just don't hold the resale values of Hondas or Toyotas but tehy are great cars.

Just be aware of that as you try to sell your Altima.

jayrider

Your 09 Altima is worth more to a dealer with used prices high. I don't know how it is equipped but if you want leather etc. I'd look at the dealers for an 09 or 2010 Maxima and check trade-in deals. I could be wrong but that older Maxima might not have esc which is standard on most new cars. You could also research a slightly used loaded Altima which isn't far from the Maxima for a much better price. Bigger trunk as wall.

Sandman6472

Keep your Altima...since you've owned it since day 1, you know the whole history of the car. With your friends car, something could go wrong within days of purchase. Factor that in with selling the Altima and all that goes along with that. Bottom line here, I'd stick with what you've got and let them dispose of their car however they want...friends should never loan money or buy cars from each other...period.

The Sandman :sick: :shades:

stickguy

at least MSRP is high!

jMy neighbor is a GSM at the local Ford dealer, so he always has a demo, recently usually an Escape. Had a different one today, so I stopped to take a look since it was a really nice color blue/gray.

Moonroof, and nice chrome wheels made it look "special". It is a 2012 XLT (not sure if there is a higher line model). Did have a power drivers seat (well, most of it) in cloth.

but, sticker was $27,200. Not cheap for an older design and nothing special nameplate wise.

But worse, this was a 4 cyl FWD model, so bottom of the line. Gotta figure a AWD 6 cyl (hey, if you are getting an "suv" shouldn't it have AWD?) must blow right over 30K, right?

it was nice looking, but as always, I start thinking about what I can get used instead. That, and what street price is.

let's see, 27K sticker, probably what, 24K real world? So what is that, a 2008 CPO BMW X3 with 40K on it? Now, what would I rather have!

kyfdx

About $5300 off MSRP on an Escape, including rebates...

Our '08 X3 comes off lease with 45K miles in October... residual is $27K.

roadburner

He's asking $5500. And I'm still thinking...

kyfdx

Coincidentally, the one I looked at this weekend was also $5500 asking.. That's really out of the budget for a fourth car.. I did make him an offer, which wasn't countered. (which tells you we weren't really close).

It was a very, very nice car.. alpine/cardinal.. Zero rust issues... But, A/C had a leak, so blew warm. Radio didn't work (ground issue, he thinks), and, a little wheel balance vibration (threw a wheel weight at last autocross, hadn't had wheel rebalanced)..

Plus, the basketweaves had a very old white paint job to match the car.. didn't love that.. and one taillight out.

Those issues aren't a big deal, but you can't get top dollar with them, I don't think.... and $5500 is top dollar..

If the one you looked at is better, then I probably don't need to see it, even if you pass.... out of my league.. lol

regards,
kyfdx

corvette

I didn't own the Altima since day 1, it was a rental for the first 29,000 miles of its life, but I've had it over a year and it's earned my trust.

I'm losing interest in the Maxima after reading about the issues with the five-speed automatic transmission that it has. The Altima's CVT is covered for 10 years or 120,000 miles, but the longer warranty doesn't apply to the Maxima.

michaellno

Poked around some of the dealers in Colorado Springs on Saturday.

Took a close look at the black MazdaSpeed 3 ... looks like it's been on the lot for quite a while. The cover of the SD card slot for the nav system was broken off, plus there were a few noticeable scrapes on the rear quarter panels. Pass.

Then, I decided to stop at the Acura dealer. Took a brief test drive of a CPO TSX - 2009 with 26K miles and a $29K price tag. Polished metal with beige leather, included the tech package. Nice car - whatever Honda did with the engine / transmission in the new version seems to have cured the problem of having to wait for high revs before any serious forward momentum was achieved. The 4-cyl / 5-speed auto combo was very nice to drive.

However, in talking with my wife about all of this. it has become evident that there are a few truths:

1) I'm probably not going to get a new car anytime soon ... we are talking about getting the floors done in our house, plus we're contemplating having a custom closet company design and install new home office furniture. Not a good time to take on a new car payment.

2) The wife does not want me to get another "boring, old man" sedan (her words). She's thinking that when, eventually, I get something new or pre-loved, that it will be either a hatchback or coupe.

She specifically mentioned the C30 from Volvo as something she likes; I also showed her a 3-series coupe and she liked that as well. A 2-door GTI would be something I like.

stickguy

I understand her logic. I am leaning the same way. My next car will be a 3rd for when my daughter gets her license (next year), but I will get something "fun, young and hip" (not that I am any one of those now...), and she will get handed down the boring old man car (but hey, it's a stick at least).

the real interesting part will be next XMas when my wife finally gets her turn to replace the minivan!

28firefighter

I love my C30, about a thousand miles on it now.

It is not as sporty to drive when compared to the GTI or a 3 series, but it has plenty of power to do just about anything. More important, for me, is how comfortable the interior is. The 5 year/60,000 mile warranty, maintenance, and wear and tear doesn't hurt either.

michaellno

I love my C30, about a thousand miles on it now.

Yeah, I've been thinking about your new C30 and what you've thought about it so far. Thanks for the quick update and review.

The Mazda dealer in the Springs also sells VW and Volvo. They have a couple of C30's on the lot - both black as well - but no GTI's. I'm not sure that I need a full on sports car, with the harsh ride that accompanies it - but the Volvo seems to have the 'hot hatch, just not dialed to 10' segment nailed. I'll have to test drive both the GTI and C30 to compare them.

stick - at some point, you and I will get what we want. Just gotta keep our bosses happy for now.

New flooring should address the house needs, and in reality I'm the one pushing for the office makeover, since I work from home. The current furniture is a hodge-podge of different colors and styles, with not nearly enough storage. Wife refuses to use it - though she's happy to store her college materials here, just adding to the junk.

breld

I got out at lunch today and got a better look at the 330ci ZHP I've been targeting.

I'd say it is in very good condition for its age and miles. There are a couple of scrapes at the bottom of the front bumper, some window tint that needs to be replaced, and one spot of "spider-web" cracking in the paint on the front bumper lip (not really noticeable without getting close). So not outstanding, but very good. Interior was in good shape - some normal wear on the driver's side bolster, and wear on the shift knob.

The salesperson was kind enough to let my wife and I take the car out by ourselves, so we took it for a fairly extended test drive, including some highway driving. Nothing surprising - no hesitation at 4k RPMs, as we were warned to look for.

Was very upfront with the salesperson - told him that we were also considering a new GTI, and that I thought their pricing was a bit high on the 330. I did send him information and pictures of my Miata, so he could at least get some rough numbers together on a "difference amount."

We both love the look and feel of the BMW, but truth is, we thought the GTI was as much fun to drive, and offers more functionality with the rear doors and hatch. And, while it's more money, it'd also be a new car with warranty and maintenance included for the life of the car (okay, well, 3 years, but that's probably enough for us ). So, we're torn between the two choices (not to mention the third choice of not doing anything).

michaellno

How many miles are on that 330ci ZHP? What's the ask?

Since you've already got a BMW (or 2), why not go for the GTI? I'm sure that now, at the end of the model year, good deals are available, plus, like you mentioned, you get the extra doors and the hatch.

(I find it really, really hard to completely shut off the practical side of me, even when it comes to sporty cars)

kyfdx

A new GTI was one of my top four choices when I got the ZHP, last year...

I couldn't argue against it....

qbrozen

I drove the C30 in its first year of production. I felt it was kind of a let down. However, I may have been in the wrong frame of mind when I drove it. I was thinking "volvo" when I probably would have been better served thinking "economy hatchback." The seats, noise levels, and ride comfort were all far below normal volvo standards. I still love the looks, though.

I'm surprised they don't sell better. The GTI is wildly more popular, at least around here.

michaellno

I'm surprised they don't sell better. The GTI is wildly more popular, at least around here.

Same is true here. I can't remember the last time I saw a C30 on the road. Lots of GTI's, both 2 and 4 door.

I kinda like the idea of the C30 for exactly that reason .. not something you'll see everyday.

I was thinking "volvo" when I probably would have been better served thinking "economy hatchback." The seats, noise levels, and ride comfort were all far below normal volvo standards.

Guess I'll have to drive one and see for myself. Not anytime soon, however.

jayrider

You can get 5-6k off msrp on the Altima SR V6 stick coupe. Around 26k -- not far from a nice GTI. Something else to check out.

qbrozen

Hell, even if they were exactly the same price, I think I'd still pick the GTI. Lighter and more useful is an easy win in my book.

michaellno

Hell, even if they were exactly the same price, I think I'd still pick the GTI. Lighter and more useful is an easy win in my book.

I've taken a look at the Altima Coupe .. nice to look at, both inside and out, but the trunk is quite small .. not even sure I could get a set of golf clubs to fit without folding the rear seats down.

(See, there's my practical side coming out again)

breld

How many miles are on that 330ci ZHP? What's the ask?

The 330 has 62k miles, CPO through Feb 2012, and they're asking $22,600.

Since you've already got a BMW (or 2), why not go for the GTI? I'm sure that now, at the end of the model year, good deals are available, plus, like you mentioned, you get the extra doors and the hatch.

I agree - the GTI would add a little more variety to the garage. But I kinda like the idea of having the last 3 gens of the 3-series too. With the four doors, the GTI could be more of a "replacement" for the CX-9, which could be relegated to full family (and snow) duty. Thus, the fun, kid-hauling car which was my goal in the first place before the nice shiny ZHP caught my eye.

The dealer has been pretty upfront in pricing the GTI near, or at, dealer invoice. Wanting a four door, with a manual, with at least a sunroof, I believe this dealer has the only two in the state, both in my first choice color. So that, combined with the summer season for my Miata trade, makes me want to make a move soon. But then again, 2012's will be out soon, and I don't know if it would take much to get the same deal. Or if I'm lucky, a used one will pop up.

A new GTI was one of my top four choices when I got the ZHP, last year...

That's good to hear - that you also thought enough of the GTI to consider it against the ZHP.

28firefighter

Maybe something has changed since the original C30 came out, but I don't find any of those things to be true. I mean, yes, the ride comfort is different as it is intended to be more hatchback than family hauler but, then again, so was the S60 R that my Dad had.

In terms of interior quality, comfort, and noise levels I find it to be consistent with what I've come to expect having driven a 2001 V70 T5 for a short period of time as well as my Dad's (former) 2007 S60 R. The seats are extremely comfortable, noise is about average, and the interior is made up of leather wrapped surfaces and soft touch plastics. In my case, there are also some aluminum surfaces that came with one of the packages.

Compared to the GTI, which now has tons of hard plastic surfaces, I find it to be a step up. I can't speak for the previous generation, however.

breld

Compared to the GTI, which now has tons of hard plastic surfaces, I find it to be a step up. I can't speak for the previous generation, however.

I don't think the GTI has suffered from the same cost savings measures that the new Jetta has - at least not yet.

ateixeira

I was gonna say the same thing. The GTI has little niceties like fabric-lined A-pillars (on the inside), soft-touch materials, a fabric headliner, etc.

Hop in a new Jetta and all those things are gone. Night and day difference.

Even the higher end Jetta puts some of those things back, but not all. Noticeable cost-cutting went on, enough the change the whole ambience from upscale to just cheap.

jayrider

Once I have leather seats, a leather covered steering wheel, and soft armrests, I could care less about "soft touch" materials --- seems to be the quality benchmark for auto reviews but I doubt if the average buyer pays much attention. When the enthusiasts and auto mags decried the cheapening of the Jetta what resulted was a large increase in sales. In the U.S. price sells cars. But I do love the fake wood trim with plastic chrome accents. Fortunately there are aftermarket sources to pimp my prius.

ateixeira

I could care less as well.

GTI owners *do* care. They care a LOT.

That's why they didn't buy a WRX or MazdaSpeed3 or EVO or Cobalt SS.

Personally, I'd go with bang for the buck and AWD and get the WRX.

qbrozen

GTI owners *do* care. They care a LOT.
That's why they didn't buy a WRX or MazdaSpeed3 or EVO or Cobalt SS.

Well, not ALL owners. Quieter ride, more rearseat legroom, more driver's headroom, and lower used price compared to a WRX is what sold me.

ateixeira

Fair enough, but IMHO if you polled GTI owners on why they picked their VW over the rest, I bet materials and interior quality would be right up there near the top of the list.

corvette

I'd rather have plain old interior-colored trim than ugly fake wood (like the Toyota Venza).

michaellno

I bet materials and interior quality would be right up there near the top of the list.

Having looked at an Impreza / WRX, I would tend to agree with that statement. The WRX is minimalist by comparison.

ateixeira

The 2012 Impreza got some soft-touch material upgrades. The WRX will be a separate model now, but it should get the same if not better.

breld

Personally, I'd go with bang for the buck and AWD and get the WRX.

Not to discount the value of AWD, but aren't WRX's pushing $30k these days when you get such things as a sunroof?

ateixeira

Local dealer has one for $25k and change, a Limited (with that moonroof) for $27,428.

I like moonroofs but that one's small so I'd pass.

michaellno

Local dealer has one for $25k and change, a Limited (with that moonroof) for $27,428.

I like moonroofs but that one's small so I'd pass.

Yeah, but that's on the east coast. Here in Colorado Subies command a premium.

However, you can option a GTI so that it breaks the $30K barrier. When is the GTI supposed to get the more powerful (220 HP) engine?

qbrozen

When is the GTI supposed to get the more powerful (220 HP) engine?

I'll let you in on a little secret... it already has it. Owners, myself included, have recorded readings of very near 200 whp (mine was 195). So VW could technically do nothing and up the published rating if they really wanted to.

ateixeira

True, but if you think Colorado is bad, ask someone in Alaska what they pay for a Subaru...

The same dealer has 5 door GTI models from $25,778 all the way up to $31,274 (ouch). Most are around $28k or so.

Like I said, though, you're getting the nicer interior. If a new Jetta breaks $30k the interior suddenly feels cheap. Not so with the GTI or older Jetta/Sportwagen.

breld

Well, I tried to buy a GTI this afternoon. The 2011's they had on their lot sold, but the salesperson located the specs I wanted in a 2012, and indicated they could make a deal on one of them, to arrive next week.

I was aggressive with my offer, as they had indicated they needed a handful of more units to meet some monthly goal (is that just a line, or is that true?). I based my offer on NADA clean trade for the Miata (which I knew was inflated) and dealer invoice on the GTI. I ended up working with the general sales manager, and he seemed to really work at it (I sat there as he looked through values for my Miata and such), but he finally came back at $2k higher than my offer. I thanked them and left. Really don't get the feeling they'll be calling back, but we'll see.

breld

The new Jetta GLI is due out any day now, and the released pricing of $24k-$28k, depending on options, seems to indicate it'll be about $2k cheaper than the GTI, probably to account for the cheaper interior materials. But the GLI does get some "Euro" soft touch dash instead of the "normal" Jettas, so that should improve the overall feel a bit.

Either way, throwing most of the GTI goodness into the Jetta should make for a desirable sedan.

isellhondas

They probably shopped your Miata and didn't get a strong bid.

If they walked you like that, you weren't even close to a deal.

You can bet they will be calling you so maybe you can meet somewhere in the middle.

roadburner

I've come to like my Mazdaspeed3 well enough, but it's definitely my first and last FWD car. I really don't care for AWD that much either.

corvette

My consulting gig occasionally takes me down a poorly graveled road to a river bottom--haven't needed AWD to get there, but it would be reassuring to have it. 99+% of the time, it just adds weight and reduces fuel economy.

mark156

Isellhondas.... Have you seen the new CR-V yet? I have not seen anything in my Automobile, Car and Driver or Motor Trend. I'm thinking I might trade for the 2012 if they can get a good selection to pick from.

If not, I could wait for the 2013 as our '07 Honda is running good at almost 47,000 miles (w/additional 40,000 miles of towing).

Mark156

oldbearcat

I've owned 3 AWD vehicles - 2 Jaguars and, now, a Mercedes. I find them to be much more surefooted in heavy rain and snow. Gas mileage penalty?? Not necessarily - my Mercedes gets better fuel economy on trips than my 2wd Honda CRV.

Regards:
Oldengineer

breld

They probably shopped your Miata and didn't get a strong bid.

If they walked you like that, you weren't even close to a deal.

You can bet they will be calling you so maybe you can meet somewhere in the middle.

Yup. I returned to my office and gave more thought as to how much I wanted to do the deal, got a bit more realistic with my numbers, and decided that the offer they made was pretty good. So I called back, and we did meet somewhere in the middle, though certainly a lot closer to their end than mine.

But, admittedly, I was being pretty aggressive with my offer, so I feel good about the deal - $19k for my Miata (paid $21.6k in March 2010 due to crazy incentives), and $250 over dealer invoice for the GTI. That's for the 2012 just hitting the lots, and that trade is exactly what Qbrozen had estimated several weeks ago. I actually have it listed for sale, but with an 8.5% tax rate, I doubt I would have done much better, not that I had a serious buyer anyway.

I would have much preferred to buy used, but I lost patience trying to find something that fit my specs (2010-2011, 4 door, manual), and kinda wanted to take advantage of the strong used market on my trade before it disappeared for the season.

So, I'll pick up the new GTI tomorrow and hand over the keys to the Miata. I'm having more heartache than I expected as I looked over the Miata this evening, but I look forward to having a fun car that's less restrictive.

We've gone a bit crazy this past year on car purchases - time to cool down now.

isellhondas

Nope, haven't seen one yet. I do know that inventories are VERY low on 2011's and a lot of other Honda models.

isellhondas

No such thing as an "ALL" wheel drive vehicle!

The spare is a wheel, right?

:P