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Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)
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I should be getting the small inheritance from my grandma in the next few weeks so I'll be able to pay cash and still have about $9k left over. I can be very fiscally responsible with that bit. And I know my grandma would want me to enjoy the bulk of the $ on something I really want.
Decisions, decisions! Someone in here please weigh in with some suggestions...I need some advice from more objective minds!!!
The Sandman :confuse:
Get what you want, it's such a drag driving a car you don't like or one that falls short of your expectations.
Just don't buy a Civic at sticker - we have to stick to our principles here! :-P
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Let me rephrase that...no more VEHICLES until April 2008!
Ditto. I ordered my 3-series a few weeks before they started arriving in the US, and was still able--after some extensive searching--to get a deal I was happy with.
Hey, you are really doing it for them!
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Now I have to ask you, do you think you will ever move on to the 90s? I am sure there are some very nice early 90s trucks out there for sale that would be in significantly better condition, with less surprises, for not much more money than these 80s trucks that catch your eye. Just wondering. :-)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
There's a part of me that thinks it would be cool to buy an old '60's or early 70's truck, one that's not too nice, so I wouldn't feel guilty using it to haul stuff around with it. Only thing is, once I start looking to stuff older than, say, a '72 Dodge or a '73 GM, I just don't like the driving position of those older trucks.
Rocky
The way trucks hold their value used, I can't imagine why you wouldn't go new with that kind of pricing.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
If I put $2000 down, my payments would be something like $250 monthly for 5 years. Not bad. Except that, even with the $1100 I just sunk into my truck, it's averaged out to about $112 monthly over the time I've had it. Including the purchase price, maintenance, tags, title, registration, repairs, etc.
Then there's insurance. My truck right now costs $293 per year to insure. I have no idea what a new one would run, with full coverage. My Intrepid, with full coverage, is around $520, but I'd guess a brand-new truck would be more than that.
Eventually though, I have thought about maybe condensing down. Replace the Intrepid AND the Silverado with one new truck. But not until I'm 38 :shades:
**Edit: basically, the main reason I'm holding off until 38 and acting so stingy, car-wise, is because I'm trying to focus on getting an HELOC paid down. It was SOOOO tempting early last year when I took it out at a nice low rate. Well, that rate ain't so nice and low anymore. :sick:
For the past month, she's seen random warning lights on the dash light up. Nothing real major, I figure.
Well, last night they got a bit nasty. While driving to work, she reported that the gas gauge went from 3/4 tank to empty and back, the speedometer went from 25MPH to 0 and back and more warning lights are displaying.
After she got home from work, I took the car out for a drive to see if I could witness any of these 'anomalies'. Nope - not an idiot light shown, nothing.
Today, wife and daughter are out together and wife sees the idiot lights go off - specifically, the "ABS" light and one other.
I have an appointment to take the car into the dealer next week to have it looked at. My fear is that the BCM is hosed and needs to be replaced - this is common with the L-series, according to another board I frequent.
So, on top of the monthly payment we're making, we're now starting to invest major money into this car, which leads both my wife and I to believe that perhaps a new car might be in order.
Her perspective is to reduce the monthly nut - currently $464 - to something less. Has to be a new car with an auto, keyless remote and ABS at a minimum.
Coincidentally, I get my annual bonus next week, so there is a bit of money to put down, on top of the trade.
Guess we'll see what happens at the dealer next week.
Sight unseen, they hit the trade value of the L at $11,400, which gives us about $2K in equity.
Am going to contact the "other" Saturn dealer to see what they say -- if I can get what I want without the pinstripes, clear bra, etc. and save myself a grand, I might go that direction.
Updates to follow.....
Sheesh!!!!
The Sandman :surprise:
It's a piece of [junk].
Electrical issues, plus 28 mpg at best and usually 26 on the freeway... my Sienna gets 24-25. My Vibe gets 30+.
There are a number of issues with the L series; I have no idea why. The Opel Vectra that it's based on is a pretty decent, reliable car.
The only reason to get an ION is to take advantage of the high trade-in value they're offering, but even so, I wouldn't inhale. $17 sticker???? If you want to be domestic, buy a Vibe.
Saturn was a good idea in '90 and had a reasonably competitive product. AND great resale.
Today, I wouldn't touch one with a ten-foot pole; certainly not new. There is nothing here you can't get elsewhere, in better quality, for less money.
Just my two cents.
-Mathias
Spent last week driving around Central Texas in a Saturn Vue. It has been a long time since I have driven a vehicle with so little to recommend it. Poor gas mileage and little comfort.
However, it was in good condition. I was renting from National RAC and could choose any SUV on the lot. The Jeep Liberty I originally chose was making such weird noices BEFORE I left the lot that I parked it and the wife chose the Vue ...
The early Saturns may have had good resale ... if you had one that did not self destruct.
But Maybe I don't understand your post, & the "L" is for a Mercedes SLK, or SL? If not, I'd avoid the Saturn dealers, & start shopping for......a Honda perhaps?
Apart from that, having a car that needs repairs YOU have to pay for before you have finished making the payments is a strong sign to avoid that manufacturer in future, IMO.
But michaell: if your discount applies to all GM brands, then you HAVE considered a Cobalt, right? It is worlds apart (worlds BETTER, both inside and out, as well as under the skin) from the current Ion, IMHO, and has a similar sticker price, I believe.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
*And I know my grandma would want me to enjoy the bulk of the $ on something I really want*
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
If memory serves, it was the same story with the Cadillac Catera. Top Gear (BBC motoring program) generally hates Vauxhall/Opel products, including the current Vectra (which the Aura is based on), but likes the new Astra, so perhaps there is hope for the next-generation Ion. I have frequently referred to the Ion as the "Eon," because that's about how long it took Saturn to replace their small car.
'06 Ford Focus ZX3.. brand new with A/C.. MSRP is $14,900..
You can buy it for $9990 plus tax..
I'm a die-hard import buyer, but for $3K-$4K less than the imports, I wonder why not? I know it is a decent handler (15" wheels), more room.. a little less gas mileage..
Seems like a great commuter car, and dirt cheap..
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Are we talking auto tranny here for $9999.? Even with the steelies & hub caps, a/c & auto, that's a very compelling price for a '06 vehicle. What are the EPA figures for the Focus now? Personally, I prefer the models with the alloy wheels and small spoiler...gives the car a bit more of a personality and a wow factor.
The Sandman
As compared to what?
The Focus was and is a fine car.
The only thing it needs -- or needed -- is improvement in reliability.
According to CU, these cars have been at least OK since the '03 model year.
For $10, I'd get it if I needed a commuter car. I prefer a stick anyway, I don't mind crank windows, and money always talks.
One thing we often forget when looking at cars and car reports and C&D articles is this:
In the real world, it doesn't matter whether the turn-in is smoother on the Civic or the Corolla. It doesn't matter whether the road holding is .05 g more or less. What really matters is a certain amount of comfort and quiet, an interior that does not disintegrate around you (GM? VW?), and a car that's in your driveway more than in the shop.
I used to have a '93 Corolla from '01 to '03... fine car. My biggest gripe was a vibration that made a funny noise from the door at idle. At 180k, I could live with it.
Don't get me wrong, I appreciate a fine automobile as much as the next guy, but a cheapo Ford Focus is going to be way ahead of any Neon... Cavalier... ION... and probably, the Cobalt, too...
But for someone on a tight budget who'd rather have a new car than a used one, it could be a steal!
Well, I'd just as soon buy used as new, but what could I get for $10 that would compare... it's a great deal if it suits one's needs. AND you get a hatchback, which is hard to find otherwise.
-Mathias
I'm just very curious to see what Ford comes out with next...will it even be called the Focus? The new Caliber seems nice on paper and some magsazines have said that it's like night & day compared to the Neon. Should be interesting to see how Ford responds. The European Focus seems like a much better car...why can't the U S get that version?
The Sandman :confuse:
I still love the way Zippy drives.........although she needs tires BAD right now. She is also great on gas, right now she's averaging 29 mpg with winter tires on and idling, not too shabby me thinks.
New Mazda5 or used 05 Legacy Wagon 2.5i? Both sticks, both silver. Both about the same gas mileage and have 6 airbags.
The Mazda is a pretty slick package with a super versatile interior. Slightly shorter length is easier to park in my underground garage. Looking at the touring model with all the bells and whistles, incl. a sunroof which I like. Have had a great experience with our Protege5 but need some more room for ski trips. Looks like a minivan til you walk up to it and can see clean over it; same height as a Forester but with sliding doors.
Ski trips means snow, hence the Legacy. AWD is great. Longer, but has a nice interior on the new models. Basic model means no sunroof. A little cheaper than the Mazda, and a manual Legacy wagon isn't easy to find. 24k miles.
Still deciding; would be used mainly for everyday stuff, but in the winter would do ski trips once a week for 3 months. FWD with winter tires should be okay, i'd think, but there is no mpg penalty with the Legacy's awd. What would you buy?
25 NX 450h+ / 24 Sienna Plat AWD / 23 Civic Type-R / 21 Boxster GTS 4.0 / 03 Montero Ltd
If there are little kids involved, the 5 is worth it just for the sliding doors. Can't slam those into other cars in the parking lot, see...
If it's just hauling capabilities, get the Legacy; the minivan thing gets old for those of us who like to actually DRIVE a car. Since you want a stick, that might matter to you.
And don't forget the Forester, either. Cute little car; pehaps too small for you but great price new, stellar resale, and has been around for a while.
Good luck, and I don't think you'll go wrong either way,
-Mathias
I saw an ad in the paper today to lease EITHER a 2006 Mercedes-Benz R350 (MSRP $51,475) OR a 2006 Mercedes-Benz CLK 350 (MSRP $50,100) for 27 months(12K per year) for $399 per month + Tax with ZERO cap cost reduction.
I'm a big BMW fan and a die hard stick shift driver, but I might be able to live with a CLK for a little over 2 years. With my wife being 3+ months pregnant, the last thing we need is another Coupe. Although it does have lots more room inside (with easier rear seat access) than my 2001 Prelude Type SH. I might be able to keep mileage down on my Prelude (20K per year) by driving this on the weekends and maybe a few days a week to work :P
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
As we say here in CCBA:
Do it do it do it do it!
-Mathias
For tax/tags pretty much it (aquisition fee too?), so minimal down, I might do it just to give it a try. I'd sell theOdyssey right out from the wife, but I doubt she would complain about the benz!
Invest the cash diff I get out of the Honda for the next car (hey, need a new one in 27 months!) and start all over!
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
The Sandman
I was waiting for you to come in for the Subaru after what you said about them in the Trade in Values forum. Any luck finding a stick yet?
It's true; I am more interested in the cargo than people space, and the third row in the 5 would be almost always folded down. I sort of like that it is NOT a Subaru though! When I am in Europe, I have had Zafiras or Tourans to drive and I've come to appreciate the versatility of the microvan idea. Mazda is the first to bring one to the US, and sometimes I feel like putting my money where my mouth is and support it. Would be my first new car, and new has some benefits. If only it had an AWD option...
Here in Seattle, Subies are everywhere. In my lot at work, I am the only non-Subaru for 7 spaces in a row! That said, there is a reason people like them. The Forester is a good car and its the right size, but after looking at them, I can't get EXCITED about them. The turbo XT is a different story, but so is the price.
25 NX 450h+ / 24 Sienna Plat AWD / 23 Civic Type-R / 21 Boxster GTS 4.0 / 03 Montero Ltd
25 NX 450h+ / 24 Sienna Plat AWD / 23 Civic Type-R / 21 Boxster GTS 4.0 / 03 Montero Ltd
Wife's going away from tomorrow until Friday. Maybe I should pick myself up a 30th 4/3/06) Birthday present...Hmmm.
2001 Prelude Type SH, 2022 Highlander XLE AWD, 2025 Camry SE AWD
That probably doesn't include the $795 MBCredit acquisition fee.. But, if it is legitimate, would be an absolute steal.. for the CLK350..
For the R350? Ewwwwwwww!! They would have to pay me..
The Focus? Manual tranny for the $9990 price.. Also, I wasn't comparing it to a Civic or Mazda3.. Either of those would be at least 60% higher.. At that price, I'm comparing it to a Sentra, Fit, Yaris, xA.. And, it still comes out thousands cheaper...
regards,
kyfdx
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Canidates include:
Mazda Tribute
Ford Escape
Toyota Rav4
Honda CRV
Subaru Outback
Subaru Forester
Chevy Equinox
Jeep Liberty
Could be a few more I'm not thinking of. Anyway, so what would you choose?
Around here, about $20-21 OTD.
Used 4x4's area desaster anywhere and worse in AK, I'd imagine.
Auction price for an '04 Liberty with 80k miles is still $10k around here... and that's at a cheap podunk local auction... more in Detroit. All the otehrs would be more; the Ford/Mazda would probably be the same.
For you, the Subie is definitely the best bet.
-Mathias
My needs may be a little different than yours though.
Being 6'6" head and legroom were a priority. That knocked the Subie's out right away.
The Honda CR-V fit but ,I could not find one in my budget(under $14k with less than 40k miles.)I think that is a sweet spot in the market for Honda sellers.
I liked the RAv4 alot, but the back seats were too narrow to get three kids cars seats back there. That was my second criteria.
The Liberty had the best deals used, and there are a ton of them around. They must have alot of lease deals going 2 and 3 years ago. My problem was a sight line issue with them. The roof line came too low and all I ended up looking at was the sun visor. The liberty was my second choice because they had the best value. Not a deal killer was the swing away rear tire,that makes loading things awkward.
So far I really like my Escape, the ride is a little harsh but not untolerable. Consumer reports also gave it good marks from '03 on up.I think I will be hanging on to it for awhile.At least until the new Ford Edge comes out.
To address specific comments made in earlier posts:
--> I am eligible for supplier discounts for all the US manufacturers - GM, Ford and DC (and all the related brands that they own, I would presume). This is why I have leaned towards domestic nameplates for my recent purchases (2 Saturns and 1 Ford).
--> Yes, the L is the Saturn L-series, cousin to the Opel/Vauxhall Vectra and the late and unlameted Cadillac Catera. Mine is a V6, fully loaded - automatic climate control, leather, power and heated seats, sunroof, chrome wheels, ABS/TC. Which I bought for thousands less than a comparable Altima, Accord, Camry and Passat - and got 0% financing as well.
--> I happen to also have a Ford Focus, and believe it to be a great car .. in the 37,000 miles that we've driven it, it's only needed regular maintenance and a set of new tires. No recalls or issues at all.
--> Some of the reasons I am leaning towards an ION as a replacement for the L instead of the Cobalt are:
1) the polymer panels on the ION (great dent resistance - the L and the wife's VUE look great compared to the Focus when it comes to door dings - or the lack thereof).
2) the belief (perhaps mistaken) that I will get a higher trade in value of the my current Saturn if I trade it in at a Saturn dealer. No, I haven't talked trade value with a Chevy (or any other manufacturers) dealer to prove or disprove this theory.
3) Saturn is offering 0% financing for 36 or 48 months on the ION at the moment, along with a $500 rebate.
4) My understanding is that the '06 ION has all the rolling updates to the platform that the Cobalt was originally introduced with, so I'm not sure there is as much of a difference between the two models as others might believe.
Anyway, I do appreciate the feedback - both positive and negative - that you all have provided. The jury is still out on what will happen.
The auto show is in Denver this week and one of the dealers I spoke with indicated that there is and extra $500 in "auto show" cash if we buy before the end of the month.
BTW, there is about a $500 difference between the price of the ION 2 optioned the way we want and the ION 3 optioned the same way - basically, the only difference is that the 16" alloy wheels are standard on the 3. Turns out it's much easier to find a 3 with ABS than a 2 with all the options we want (ABS, AC, preferred pkg).
I would guess with tax and fees that monthly payment will get up close to 500 dollars a month though. Start up fees for that kind of lease are probably a couple of thousand.
I have had people cross shopping both the LR3/Range Rover Sport against the R-Class and basicly saying, "Why should I buy your car that is going to lease for between $800-$1,200 a month when I can lease the Benz for less then $500?
My response, "Well if you want an over priced Minivan then go right ahead and you need to compare apples to apples not apples to kumquats since my Land Rovers are between $5,000 and $11,000 more expensive then the Benz. Have them run a lease on a R500 then we will talk."
My local Mercedes dealership is offering a $5,000 discount on the R-class and $2,000 on the E-class. The E-class is a nice looking car!
Mark :shades:
The Dodge and Titan are leaving in June, was going to just make do with Zippy, but with 2 kids its very hard in a 2 door car. Soooo, I figured I could trade Zippy and get a small used SUV to squeak me by.
By looking at the prices I can pick up a decent used Escape for $15k, but I'm concerned about reliability and resale. Might have to look for a used Outback or Legacy, I will take a look at the Forester too. I'm hoping I don't have to spend over $15k, actually looked at some older SUV's in the $10k range but they are pretty miled up.
I hadn't planned on letting the Titan go, but its a way to get out of the lease (am already way over the lease miles), trade 2 trucks for 1, and get a crew cab 1-ton that can combine the Titan and Dodge. That way our car insurance goes down as well as mantainace on that 3rd vehicle.
Probably not buying until June so I've got time, will wait until the new truck gets in (he's ordering it).
The yard is clearing out fast, sold the horse trailer on Friday, the snowmobile yesterday, just have the 18' car hauler left to go and we have some room in the yard! 5 trailers, a snowmobile that nobody rode for years, and 3 vehicles was a wee bit tight.
Yeah I know I am weird.
I also wand a C36 badly.