I guess my point was that when, or if, an acura needs major stuff, it won't be cheap. And to suggest buying a newer vehicle with lower miles. And probably my concept that getting parts for a Toyota should be cheaper than for an acura. And that used 4runners usually cost less than used mdx's.
But with the way my sick automotive brain works, by this afternoon I'd be talking her into buying the 60K mdx.....
I love Edmunds, but if I hear one more person recommend a Toyota or a Honda I am gonna puke.
Honda's are nice cars, Toyota are nice cars, Saturns are nice cars.I have owned my share of Toyota's and Honda's and agree they are excellent transportation.
However the sun does not rise and set on Toyota's Honda's and Subaru's.If someone claims a $500 break job on any of these, everyone says, well , thats just maintenance .But a Saturn needs a $500 break job and everyone says to dump it and never buy American again.
I certainly don't want to turn this into a buy American forum. The domestic's have their strong points too. Last I checked GM was still the number one seller. And,yes I know Toyota is gaining on them.
Michael stated why he likes Saturn's can we not respect his opinion and not have to call for an "intervention".
Well, testdrove them last night. 02 ES300 w/ 19k ( not the frameless window- this was the 1st year of the redesign). -- It wouldnt start-- dead battery. A sign from above? who knows. I do know that even after treatment, the car reeked of smoke, and to a nonsmoker like me, that's a dealbreaker.
01 GS450 w/44k and nav/ chrome wheels. Beautiful car. I loved how the cockpit really cradled me. very smooth v8 in it. Acceleration was great. the G's were noticible when I punched it. Though I didnt time it or anything when doing a 60-80mph passing test, it felt a little more sluggish in that range than the tl did. The interior was clean, but some of the writing on the buttons on the front console were starting to fade/rub off. Really enjoyed driving it, and as I spend about 90-120min in the car per day, it scored more points than I wanted it to. Because of the 3 owners, I'd get this on a lift and have a mechanic take a look before I bought it. They're asking 21k.
'04 Acura TL Auto with 31k mi: all standard stuff, no options here. This was raw and animalistic where the Lexus was silky. The interior of this one was less worn than the gs, and really good looking, but I have a kid and from time to time will be putting a childseat in the back. I've read that the perforated leather in this car is more prone to tearing, which makes me pause somewhat. The lexus leather felt a little thicker. Driving was comfortable, but less "cockpit-y" than the lexus. Cool standard features were dvd-audio and bluetooth. No nav though. They're asking 24.5k for it.
Unfortunately, I liked the lexus more than practicality says I should and it's 3k cheaper and has more features. The acura has warranty, is newer, gets better mpg, fewer miles, but is 3.5k more expensive. To me it's a dead heat.
I'm one of those people (like some of you) who follow cars relentlessly, always dreaming of the next one, and can find something I like in almost anything. Unfortunately this broadens the field like mad. I think I'll be taking my time, test-driving a ton, and really getting a feel for my options and priorities to narrow things down.
( And re the accord, I've owned 2, both were great cars, and may check it out, but as it stands, the acura at $24.5k is a little more than I'd like to spend, so I'm not real comfortable stretching further.)
Re: Saturn Vue reliability. I recently checked consumer reports for reliability of these, as we have access to the GM discount and was considering it, CR lists the awd vue on their " used cars to avoid" list and has the new vue AWD at about 60% worse predicted reliability than the average car. They predict the fwd version to be slightly better than the average car. For whatever that's worth. I know honda makes the saturn vue redline engine, but am not sure whether that's awd or fwd.
Take everything CR says with a grain of salt. In fact you might want to take it with a whole salt mine thrown in. The best way to see how reliable a vehicle is is to look at what extended warranty companies rate the warranty at. Extended warranties are graded on a scale from A or AA down to like L or M. Cheaper warranties, for more reliable cars/cheaper to fix cars, are rated in the A-C range. Cars that cost more to fix and break most often get J or K ratings. Everything else is in between.
I would put more faith in the warranty raitings then CR's ratings since the warranty company actualy has to back up those ratings with money. If they screw up and rate a car a B when it actually more of a G then that will cost them big money. If CR screws up then it does not really cost them anything. Maybe a few subscribers will cancel their subscritpion but I doubt it.
When CR does their predicted reliablity of a car that has just been completly redesigned instead of just saying either they don't know or putting a footnote by their ranking letting people know it is based off the old model they just use the old predicted realiblity.
When a car really is completly redesigned and nothing from the old car carries over then you cannot predict its relablity based off the old model. They should just say this but they do not.
Micheal has also stated he has done his share or repair work on his Saturn. Most people, myself included, that recommend Hondas and Toyota have owned several examples of them and never hed any expensive repairs. I've had very few expensive non-maintenance repairs on a Honda or Toyota. I would say never but I'll just say very few because I'm sure there has to be one or two, I just can't remember any right now. A $500 brake job sounds about right for a well done job at a brake shop. But a "body control module" is something else. I do my own brakes though. Advance/Autozone pads and rotors are CHEAP.
As far as the extended warranty being the judge or reliability. I'll agree with that. I used to work for Carmax and extended warranty prices do vary greatly from brand to brand. In fact, Carmax won't even sell many brands past a certain mileage because the warranty company won't cover them.
Most people have no idea about them and it is not something you can probably just go look up on your own. If you have a good relationship with someone in the dealership business, or even if you don't have a good relationship but you go in on a slow weekday, just ask the F&I to show you his warranty rating chart. There is probably somewhere online you can find the raitings but they do vary a little bit from company to company. CNA is a pretty big aftermarket warranty company and they sell warranties for just about every vehicle.
if you make the current repair you should definitely keep your 'L' long enough to give the Aura a thorough check-out this summer. Everything I have read lately is now saying the same thing you did - the DOHC 3.6 should be available in that model. I sure hope that proves to be true! :-)
I hope you don't have to take chrome rims to get the V-6 though.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I'm just not the kind of person who is comfortable doing his own maintenance work - probably stems from the time when I was in HS when I drained the transmission fluid then added 4 quarts of oil. Not a pretty sight.
I've owned 3 Hondas and my folks have owned Toyotas for a number of years, so I'm well aware of the notion that they don't require lots of expensive repairs. For the most part, it's regular PM and not much else.
Had I known then (when I bought the L) what I know now about the repair costs, I might have been more inclined to purchase an extended warranty, or gone with a different manufacturer. Que sera, sera, as Doris Day sang. Not much I can do about it now.
Yes, I happen to like Saturns, but the recent experiences I've had with the L will make me think long and hard about going down that path again. For the $16-17K that they want for an ION, I might take a closer look at the alternatives - Scion xA, Toyota Yaris, Hyundai Elantra, etc.
I've got my fingers crossed that the wife's VUE doesn't experience the same kind of issues -- but, we did get the extended warranty (6/75K) on hers, so I guess it won't matter as much.
Does anyone know if Mazda plans on offering something smaller than the 3 here in the US? I do qualify for supplier discounts on Mazda (via Ford).
...if Mazda plans on offering something smaller than the 3 here in the US?
The MX-5? :P Had to say it.
Mazda sells the Mazda2 in other markets, but I haven't heard of any plans to bring it here... You might consider the 9-2X if you can get a discount on Saabs, and don't mind a wagon.
...if Mazda plans on offering something smaller than the 3 here in the US?
The MX-5? Had to say it.
Touche!
I've heard of the Mazda 2 but don't think I've ever seen any pictures of one.
I do qualify for a GM Supplier discount on Saabs, but remember, I'm trying to downsize the current payment that I have on the Saturn, so I'm looking at something in the mid teens.
I will admit that I've been looking at the Honda (Fit), Toyota (Yaris) and Nissan (Versa) websites. Equipped the way I would like (auto, ABS, keyless entry), we're still in the $15-16K price range. The Fit is intriguing, I will say.
I did speak with the sales manager at the Saturn dealership and had him give me an estimate on the value of the L as a trade in. He gave it a cursory look and offered $11,500.
The good news is that I think the payoff value will now decrease faster than the rate of depreciation, so if I decide to wait a few more months, I ought to have even more equity available. Couple that with the standard "end of the model year" deals that occur over the summer, and it might just make sense to pull the trigger.
The Mazda2 looks identical to the 3 hatch all the way back to the rear doors. The tail lights also look identical to the 6 wagon. I wonder if they share any parts?
Travler, as far as I can tell, the ad said $1,500 down, plus TTL, and a $399 doc fee (kinda high)...so, that's their profit I guess. Including taxes and fees, I was figuring it would run about $175 a month total cost for 36 months. I'm really not sure how tax is figured on a lease. I figured $900 for 3 years but it was just a guess.
I was wonder if you ever checked on this ad? I'm curious. :confuse:
Trav... I did not check on the ad and I realize I did make a mistake, it was for 24 months, not 36 (oops).
I gave the ad to my niece and her husband to check out as they would be in the "need" for efficient transportation. I'm not sure if they actually checked on it or not but if they do, I'll post back here with the information.
-mark156
2010 Land Rover LR4, 2013 Honda CR-V, 2009 Bentley GTC, 1990 MB 500SL, 2001 MB S500, 2007 Lincoln TC, 1964 RR Silver Cloud III, 1995 MB E320 Cab., 2015 Prevost Liberty Coach
Finally saw some details on the upcoming Nissan Versa 9which I really liked at the car show), and heard from GEE that the latest C&D has a review. Anyway, this is exactly the type of car I wanted before I bought the Accord, but couldn't find the way I wanted (the Mazda 3 came closest).
Anyway, Just speced one out on the Nissan site. Seems like a good deal.
A loaded SL hatch, every option except sport package (just cladding and stuff), was $16,750 MSRP.
that includes alloys, ABS, fancy stereo with sub, moonroof, ABS/SAB, steering wheel audio controls, XM sat radio, aux input jack, Bluetooth, smart key, power everything, and a few other things I can't recall.
Makes the Caliber seem overpriced!
Oh no, the wheels are turning! good thing I got a real good deal on the Accord, and have TIH!
TIH = Title in hand, as any tru CCB sufferer should know.
TIH is always good thing, I had to explain it to the salesman I bought my Escape from(he thought I meant literally).
Sound like you will be getting some cash back on. At under $17k that is hard to beat. The ride probably will not be as nice as the Accord and not as much room. Though the hatch will make up for some of what you are losing.
Maybe with the money you get back you can get the Miata back in time for summer.
I hear ya on the Versa .. it seems to be a pretty good value, even when it's pretty well loaded.
Would have to drive all 3 (Yaris, Fit, Versa) with the automatic and see how they feel. Although the Fit, with the Sport package, has 'paddle' shifters behind the steering wheel.
Not that I think that anyone in my family other than me would ever use them.
noticably larger than the Yaris and Fit? Whereas those two are a definite step down in size (not necessarily interior room) from the Corolla and Civic, the Versa looks to me like it would be much closer to the current Sentra in size.
When I saw the Versa at the Philly auto show, I didn't know what it was, and thought it WAS a replacement for the Sentra!
All academic of course, since I'm not in the market!
OK, now that the wife is gone...
The Toyota is out, since I could never drive an Echo!, but mostly because I hate the center pod instruments. That, and I did not like the one I saw (I think I saw it at least) at the car show.
The Fit is OK, but is immediately eliminated for not having a moonroof.
Only the Versa has the key equipment (stick shift, sat radio from the factory, stereo controls on the steering wheel at minimum). Plus I really liked how it looked, and the interior was sharp, although it was up on the stand at the auto show.
Too bad my neighbor the GSM moved from a Nissan dealer to a Ford dealer last year!
I know I am going to really like this car, because it pretty much was what I was looking for for a few years (at least on papaer) but finally gave up. The Mazda 3 was close, but I didn't find the seats comfy.
The Caliber could be a contender in this class, but they really need to wxpand the manual tranny availability.
I took my couple hour break from my 10 year old couped up in the hospital room yesterday and went to look around. I'm couped up with her today all day until I escape to my room for the night, she's a good kid, but the *Princess complex* takes over after about day 2. I'm typing this then going to the truck to get a game out so she can whoop my butt.......again! Only 11 days or so to go and we can go home........YEAH!!!
Narrowed it down to the CR-V and the Escape. Only thing I didn't like about the CR-V was the horrible road noise, other than that I really liked it. However, I found a beautiful used 2004 Escape limited that I am horribly smitten over, am trying hard to talk myself out of it. Its sitting next to a used CR-V on the Ford dealer's lot.
Talk me down guys.....this could be bad for Zippy!
We test drove one when looking for a small SUV for the wife. She deemed it 'gutless', but I actually kinda liked it.
And ... if you're looking to us to "talk you down", you've come to the wrong forum, Missy. Each and every one of us are enablers.
RE: Fit v. Yaris v. Versa -- I'd agree that the Versa is larger than the other two, but I also believe that Nissan is introducing a revamped Sentra this year as well, so I guess the Versa is meant to slot below it. Or, is it simply a hatch version of the Sentra, and Nissan gave it a different name to broaden the prospective market?
Fit and Yaris are absolutely meant to be entry level cars, beneath the Civic and Corolla.
This is getting good! I remember back in the late (19)60's, or early 70's, when the Ford vs. Chevy guys could get very contentious about their vehicles. I was more in the Chrysler camp, but then the 2 I had either blew the engines, &/or had one problem after another.
As far as "interventions"......I wish someone had done that with me before I bought a couple of my more questionable vehicles.
I guess I don't know what to say to somebody who posts a lot about recurring, expensive problems with their car, but who can only consider that same brand when they replace it.
Maybe, lease next time, for only the length of the warranty? (I might have actually had a good idea there???).
No, I would not only consider another Saturn to replace the L when the time comes. I believe that I've stated my reasons why I might be inclined to do so.
The L was sort of a [non-permissible content removed] in the Saturn (heck, GM) lineup - quasi European in nature (similar to the Opel/Vauxhall Vectra and, to a lesser extent, the Saab 9-3), so the problems that I've had with the L I would not expect to have on the ION (similar to the Chevy Cobalt) or the wifes VUE (which has the Honda 3.5L V6 and 5-speed auto transmission).
One of the big reasons why I've been partial to Saturns in the past is the use of the polymer side panels. Unfortunately, going forward Saturn is phasing them out - the Relay doesn't use them, nor does the recently introduced Sky. Same with the Aura and the Opel-sourced replacement for the ION in '08.
So, in the future, Saturns will be just another derivative of other GM offerings. As such, I will be sure to look at other brands, makes and models when the time comes.
EDIT: up until a month ago, the L300 has been quite reliable -- just got hit with a couple of big issues in a short amount of time. Sometimes you're the pigeon, sometimes you're the statue. I guess in the past month I've been the statue!
Ya know, I didn't even notice that, lol. Normally I'm the one correcting everyone else's spelling. The 10 year old must be wearing off on me. LOL
I had an Escape for a month as a rental when the Titan was down, put nearly 3000 miles on it and loved it. I wanted to buy it but it wasn't off rental yet. Great little truck.
We test drove one when looking for a small SUV for the wife. She deemed it 'gutless', but I actually kinda liked it.
And ... if you're looking to us to "talk you down", you've come to the wrong forum, Missy. Each and every one of us are enablers.
I really like the Escape, maybe its the month long rental I had, I don't know, but I really like them.
You guys used to be oh so good at keeping me out of trouble, maybe everyone is just looking for someone else to buy something. Heck, its been so long since I bought a new car that nobody's even making bets anymore!!
I like my Escape so far, the only thing I really miss is the steering wheel radio controls. I don't know how many time in the past 3 weeks I put my thumb on the wheel where they used to be.
Last tank was just over 20 mpg so I am satisfied with that.
Well dang, test drove that cute little 04 Escape last night, it was ok, but the door dinger, dome light, and stereo didn't work. I'm guessing a fuse, but I got a hinky feeling about it, it had some paint missing on the front bumper too.
I started looking around the lot while my poor salesguy was hobbling around looking for the keys to the Escape (he's having knee surgery this morning). Well, I looked at the Ford Freestyle, that thing is cool. So after coming back from the Escape test drive I asked to drive a Freestyle, he got the keys to one and I drove it. Kind of a cool mom car, but it got me thinking hard about the Pilot too.
Me thinks I'm going to wait and think this over, I can't make up my mind what I want to do. If I wait until October I can have Zippy paid off and maybe be able to swing a Pilot or Freestyle, which means I won't have to switch cars in a couple years to get what I want.
I dunno, going back in there next week so hubby can order his new truck, that is if he decides on Ford.....he's stuck on Chevy at the moment.
My salesguy is really cool, we've bought 2 vehicles from him in the past (the Dodge and the 04 Explorer), we were both hobbling in sync last night. I've managed to goof up my left knee again, that that means no driving Zippy for a little while until it heals.
Help me out guys......what to buy?? Oh heck, maybe I'll just keep the Titan or Zippy. :confuse:
I was looking at the Freestyle & Pilot (and Highlander) too, and I went with the Freestyle. For me, space was the main issue. The legroom in the Freestyle's 2nd row is 40.4 and 33.3 in the 3rd row, and there is 21 cubic feet of luggage space behind the 3rd row. For the Pilot, the legroom in the 2nd rwo is only 37.4 and 30.2 in the 3rd row, and cargo space is only 16 cubic feet behind the 3rd row. This is all from the Ford & Honda official webpages. So for me, the extra cargo space, plus the extra 3 inches in the 2nd & 3rd row made the difference. The Freestyle is 10 inches longer, but for me it's necessary if you want to make a three row vehicle comfortable and practical.
Cost was another issue. I bought a Freestyle FWD SE with tri-level climate controls (extra a/c & heater in the back), convenience group & safety package all for $24K. I think the Pilot would have cost at least a few thousand more.
It has a VERY nice stance on the road. But the teeny tiny engine and CVT-only tranny keep me from being totally enamored. That just looks like too much car for 200hp. One thing about the MDX/Pilot is that 3.5 engine. Our MDX would haul when you struck your foot in it. The same for our ODY. I had it full of people and it still had beans to jump from 85 to 100 mph if you wanted it to. I was impressed.
get the Freestyle with the 6-speed automatic? That is the one I would choose - in a power-challenged car like this, the CVT-equipped models must just run the engine at redline all the time, which would annoy me pretty quickly.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Ford came out with 2 great cars...the 500 and the Freestyle and goes and underpowers them both. What were they thinking? Just once I'd love to see one of the big 3 think outside the box and equip their cars with the right stuff out of the box. They just might see their sales go up. Why introduce new models and give them obsolete and poor technology...makes no sense to me. At least the foreign companies use their brains and usually offer the latest technology, not in every case but much more than Detroit's big 3. And then they complain that they can't compete. Offer a great product like your foreign rivals...and you'll succeed. Take some responsibility for your failures...learn...and move on!!!!!
Slowly using my cane to get down from the soapbox now!
Both the Freestyle and Pilot.......The Freestyle is peppy but could use a little more get up and go. Now the Pilot flat gets up and moves, however, the transmission is WAY too happy to hunt, even on flat ground, VERY annoying.
Worthington Ford has some used Suburbans on their lot, I thought about going that route too. I'm just so undecided and so afraid to make another mistake like I did with the Titan (love my truck, but resale and being a test rat for Nissan sour the experience).
I would like to find a vehicle I can be happy with for several years that will seat more than 5.....me thinks this is gonna be a long search. Maybe I should play pin the tail on the car and buy whatever it lands on, lol. :P
Went and looked at that 02 MDX with 60k, I was disappointed, it was pretty, seemed in good shape, I started it but didn't drive it. It had a glitch in the Nav screen about the size of a 1/2 dollar and an aftermarket DVD that was poorly put in. Other than that it was a nice SUV, but didn't give me that "take me home" feeling. Maybe I should have driven it, I don't know.
I've always been a chronic car shopper, but am moving to a stage in my life where i think I'm going to make the leap and change cars when the whims strike rather than drive them into the ground. I want to be come a Chronic Car Buyer!
I don't want to go to the poorhouse by doing it though. What are the keys to success? Do I only buy new when the car has a pretty flat depreciation rate? Do I buy 2 yr old vehicles exclusively? What tips do you all have?
We're using Alamo when we fly into Boston in June. I got a great deal on a mid sized car...G6 size. With the discount coupons I have, it'll be $184.00 for the week with me dropping off the car in Hartford. That part cost me $30., but the final price I thought was great. Would prefer if they'd have a Fusion for me, but one can always hope. I did enjoy the Sebring I had last month...plenty of power and the power seat was very back friendly. I had rented a Malibu Classic 2 years ago in New Hampshire and I returned it at Westchester Airport the next day for a Grand Am, which was also back friendly. Hertz was $100. more for the same sized car which is outrageous.
Kyfdx, full size will get you an Impala or maybe a Grand Marquis. A Cadillac or Lincoln would be a "Premium", not a full size.
Alangl, please hang on to what you have until you are not "so" upside down. But, buying two year old cars and then trading is better than buying new I guess as much as you and Hubby trade.
Hope the daughter gets well soon!
Mark
2010 Land Rover LR4, 2013 Honda CR-V, 2009 Bentley GTC, 1990 MB 500SL, 2001 MB S500, 2007 Lincoln TC, 1964 RR Silver Cloud III, 1995 MB E320 Cab., 2015 Prevost Liberty Coach
Alangl, please hang on to what you have until you are not "so" upside down. But, buying two year old cars and then trading is better than buying new I guess as much as you and Hubby trade.
Actually hubby has had the Ram for nearly 3 years, only reason for trading is its having to do more than its designed to do and he wants a diesel.
As for negative equity, well, yeah I've got that in the Titan was very stupid on my part to lease knowing how much I drive. Ah well, live and learn I guess.
I went and drove the 2002 Acura MDX today, it drove nice, I liked it, but it drove like it had 60k on it (it does). The front end felt very loose, it wasn't at all tight to drive. Lots of road noise too. Asking price on it was $24,900.
Went back to the Honda dealer and drove a Pilot, definatly what I'm buying, could have pulled the trigger today. However, I'm going to wait until fall when Zippy is paid off and I can trade her plus money down for the Pilot. That way maybe I won't be so upside down.
Hopefully the Pilot will be a wise choice.......what do you guys think??
Now back to getting my butt kicked at whatever game my 10 year old chooses........how do kids do that??
Looked at the Mazda5 and the 05 Legacy 2.5i wagon. 5 is a neat package, lots of nooks and crannies to store stuff in. Looks sharp in person. The third row folds pretty flat but not completely flat. Not one of those disappear into the floor deals like a minivan. Available manual tranny shifts nicely. Power is acceptable but not overwhelming. Expected that coming into it, though. Sales guy seemed bored talking about it; have concluded that a majority of black leather coat market must pivot around guys in car sales.
Drove the Legacy wagon the next day. Drove very nicely, and more peppy then I expected for the base engine. I am sure the manual helps out here. Nice interior, huge amount of room in the cargo area. And gets better gas mileage than the Mazda despite AWD. I still think it's Subaru's best looking car. Concerns- this is a big car, and is a little longer then my ideal. I may be able to live with it. Hard to put an aftermarket stereo in the non-DIN center console and I am WAY too used to ipod integration in my BMW to not have it on my next car. Had a small dent in the drivers door, but that should come out with little trouble. Also has a trailer hitch on it, which may indicate a harder early life. Clean, one owner Carfax. I liked this car more than I thought I would, though; more than the Mazda5.
I am going to check out a new Forester X manual tomorrow. Looked at one in the past but only found an automatic. Hoping the manual helps as I was not blown away by the Forester before. But it is the right size and I have to admit the current incentives make them a killer value. Nothing wrong with new. Would be slightly more than the Legacy.
I'm pretty shocked. The old Camrys never won these things because automotive journalists tend to place a high value on a car's sportiness.
I saw a 2007 Camry at the auto show, but it was an LE four-cylinder. Is the new model really that good?
Ten years ago, it was relatively uncommon to see a loaded (EX / XLE) Accord or Camry. I think the proportion of loaded models has dramatically increased.
well, as we discussed a while back, i think the pilot is great .... BUT, lemme get this straight ... you will now have the Pilot and Titan? Did I miss the explanation for WHY? Did you have a couple of extra kids recently and need the extra seating? Just keep in mind that you are eliminating a fuel-efficient car from your stable and will now have 3 really thirsty vehicles. At ~20mpg, the Pilot will be the most efficient choice to drive ...
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Comments
But with the way my sick automotive brain works, by this afternoon I'd be talking her into buying the 60K mdx.....
Honda's are nice cars, Toyota are nice cars, Saturns are nice cars.I have owned my share of Toyota's and Honda's and agree they are excellent transportation.
However the sun does not rise and set on Toyota's Honda's and Subaru's.If someone claims a $500 break job on any of these, everyone says, well , thats just maintenance .But a Saturn needs a $500 break job and everyone says to dump it and never buy American again.
I certainly don't want to turn this into a buy American forum. The domestic's have their strong points too. Last I checked GM was still the number one seller. And,yes I know Toyota is gaining on them.
Michael stated why he likes Saturn's can we not respect his opinion and not have to call for an "intervention".
02 ES300 w/ 19k ( not the frameless window- this was the 1st year of the redesign). -- It wouldnt start-- dead battery. A sign from above? who knows. I do know that even after treatment, the car reeked of smoke, and to a nonsmoker like me, that's a dealbreaker.
01 GS450 w/44k and nav/ chrome wheels. Beautiful car. I loved how the cockpit really cradled me. very smooth v8 in it. Acceleration was great. the G's were noticible when I punched it. Though I didnt time it or anything when doing a 60-80mph passing test, it felt a little more sluggish in that range than the tl did. The interior was clean, but some of the writing on the buttons on the front console were starting to fade/rub off. Really enjoyed driving it, and as I spend about 90-120min in the car per day, it scored more points than I wanted it to. Because of the 3 owners, I'd get this on a lift and have a mechanic take a look before I bought it. They're asking 21k.
'04 Acura TL Auto with 31k mi: all standard stuff, no options here. This was raw and animalistic where the Lexus was silky. The interior of this one was less worn than the gs, and really good looking, but I have a kid and from time to time will be putting a childseat in the back. I've read that the perforated leather in this car is more prone to tearing, which makes me pause somewhat. The lexus leather felt a little thicker. Driving was comfortable, but less "cockpit-y" than the lexus. Cool standard features were dvd-audio and bluetooth. No nav though. They're asking 24.5k for it.
Unfortunately, I liked the lexus more than practicality says I should and it's 3k cheaper and has more features. The acura has warranty, is newer, gets better mpg, fewer miles, but is 3.5k more expensive. To me it's a dead heat.
I'm one of those people (like some of you) who follow cars relentlessly, always dreaming of the next one, and can find something I like in almost anything. Unfortunately this broadens the field like mad. I think I'll be taking my time, test-driving a ton, and really getting a feel for my options and priorities to narrow things down.
( And re the accord, I've owned 2, both were great cars, and may check it out, but as it stands, the acura at $24.5k is a little more than I'd like to spend, so I'm not real comfortable stretching further.)
For whatever that's worth.
I know honda makes the saturn vue redline engine, but am not sure whether that's awd or fwd.
I would put more faith in the warranty raitings then CR's ratings since the warranty company actualy has to back up those ratings with money. If they screw up and rate a car a B when it actually more of a G then that will cost them big money. If CR screws up then it does not really cost them anything. Maybe a few subscribers will cancel their subscritpion but I doubt it.
When CR does their predicted reliablity of a car that has just been completly redesigned instead of just saying either they don't know or putting a footnote by their ranking letting people know it is based off the old model they just use the old predicted realiblity.
When a car really is completly redesigned and nothing from the old car carries over then you cannot predict its relablity based off the old model. They should just say this but they do not.
As far as the extended warranty being the judge or reliability. I'll agree with that. I used to work for Carmax and extended warranty prices do vary greatly from brand to brand. In fact, Carmax won't even sell many brands past a certain mileage because the warranty company won't cover them.
I hope you don't have to take chrome rims to get the V-6 though.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I've owned 3 Hondas and my folks have owned Toyotas for a number of years, so I'm well aware of the notion that they don't require lots of expensive repairs. For the most part, it's regular PM and not much else.
Had I known then (when I bought the L) what I know now about the repair costs, I might have been more inclined to purchase an extended warranty, or gone with a different manufacturer. Que sera, sera, as Doris Day sang. Not much I can do about it now.
Yes, I happen to like Saturns, but the recent experiences I've had with the L will make me think long and hard about going down that path again. For the $16-17K that they want for an ION, I might take a closer look at the alternatives - Scion xA, Toyota Yaris, Hyundai Elantra, etc.
I've got my fingers crossed that the wife's VUE doesn't experience the same kind of issues -- but, we did get the extended warranty (6/75K) on hers, so I guess it won't matter as much.
Does anyone know if Mazda plans on offering something smaller than the 3 here in the US? I do qualify for supplier discounts on Mazda (via Ford).
The MX-5? :P Had to say it.
Mazda sells the Mazda2 in other markets, but I haven't heard of any plans to bring it here... You might consider the 9-2X if you can get a discount on Saabs, and don't mind a wagon.
The MX-5? Had to say it.
Touche!
I've heard of the Mazda 2 but don't think I've ever seen any pictures of one.
I do qualify for a GM Supplier discount on Saabs, but remember, I'm trying to downsize the current payment that I have on the Saturn, so I'm looking at something in the mid teens.
I will admit that I've been looking at the Honda (Fit), Toyota (Yaris) and Nissan (Versa) websites. Equipped the way I would like (auto, ABS, keyless entry), we're still in the $15-16K price range. The Fit is intriguing, I will say.
I did speak with the sales manager at the Saturn dealership and had him give me an estimate on the value of the L as a trade in. He gave it a cursory look and offered $11,500.
The good news is that I think the payoff value will now decrease faster than the rate of depreciation, so if I decide to wait a few more months, I ought to have even more equity available. Couple that with the standard "end of the model year" deals that occur over the summer, and it might just make sense to pull the trigger.
Mazda2
-Jason
I was wonder if you ever checked on this ad? I'm curious. :confuse:
I gave the ad to my niece and her husband to check out as they would be in the "need" for efficient transportation. I'm not sure if they actually checked on it or not but if they do, I'll post back here with the information.
-mark156
Anyway, Just speced one out on the Nissan site. Seems like a good deal.
A loaded SL hatch, every option except sport package (just cladding and stuff), was $16,750 MSRP.
that includes alloys, ABS, fancy stereo with sub, moonroof, ABS/SAB, steering wheel audio controls, XM sat radio, aux input jack, Bluetooth, smart key, power everything, and a few other things I can't recall.
Makes the Caliber seem overpriced!
Oh no, the wheels are turning! good thing I got a real good deal on the Accord, and have TIH!
TIH = Title in hand, as any tru CCB sufferer should know.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Sound like you will be getting some cash back on. At under $17k that is hard to beat. The ride probably will not be as nice as the Accord and not as much room. Though the hatch will make up for some of what you are losing.
Maybe with the money you get back you can get the Miata back in time for summer.
The only way I could make that worse is to bring home a dog at the same time.
But, she would have trouble figuring out what to be mad about if I showed up with a new car and didn't have to borrow the checkbook to do it!
I might fall apart if it has "to die for" comfy seats...
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Would have to drive all 3 (Yaris, Fit, Versa) with the automatic and see how they feel. Although the Fit, with the Sport package, has 'paddle' shifters behind the steering wheel.
Not that I think that anyone in my family other than me would ever use them.
When I saw the Versa at the Philly auto show, I didn't know what it was, and thought it WAS a replacement for the Sentra!
OK, now that the wife is gone...
The Toyota is out, since I could never drive an Echo!, but mostly because I hate the center pod instruments. That, and I did not like the one I saw (I think I saw it at least) at the car show.
The Fit is OK, but is immediately eliminated for not having a moonroof.
Only the Versa has the key equipment (stick shift, sat radio from the factory, stereo controls on the steering wheel at minimum). Plus I really liked how it looked, and the interior was sharp, although it was up on the stand at the auto show.
Too bad my neighbor the GSM moved from a Nissan dealer to a Ford dealer last year!
I know I am going to really like this car, because it pretty much was what I was looking for for a few years (at least on papaer) but finally gave up. The Mazda 3 was close, but I didn't find the seats comfy.
The Caliber could be a contender in this class, but they really need to wxpand the manual tranny availability.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Narrowed it down to the CR-V and the Escape. Only thing I didn't like about the CR-V was the horrible road noise, other than that I really liked it. However, I found a beautiful used 2004 Escape limited that I am horribly smitten over, am trying hard to talk myself out of it. Its sitting next to a used CR-V on the Ford dealer's lot.
Talk me down guys.....this could be bad for Zippy!
I actually like the Escape. I have never cared much for the CR-V, but I know that it is all full of "Hondaness"
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
And ... if you're looking to us to "talk you down", you've come to the wrong forum, Missy. Each and every one of us are enablers.
RE: Fit v. Yaris v. Versa -- I'd agree that the Versa is larger than the other two, but I also believe that Nissan is introducing a revamped Sentra this year as well, so I guess the Versa is meant to slot below it. Or, is it simply a hatch version of the Sentra, and Nissan gave it a different name to broaden the prospective market?
Fit and Yaris are absolutely meant to be entry level cars, beneath the Civic and Corolla.
As far as "interventions"......I wish someone had done that with me before I bought a couple of my more questionable vehicles.
I guess I don't know what to say to somebody who posts a lot about recurring, expensive problems with their car, but who can only consider that same brand when they replace it.
Maybe, lease next time, for only the length of the warranty? (I might have actually had a good idea there???).
The L was sort of a [non-permissible content removed] in the Saturn (heck, GM) lineup - quasi European in nature (similar to the Opel/Vauxhall Vectra and, to a lesser extent, the Saab 9-3), so the problems that I've had with the L I would not expect to have on the ION (similar to the Chevy Cobalt) or the wifes VUE (which has the Honda 3.5L V6 and 5-speed auto transmission).
One of the big reasons why I've been partial to Saturns in the past is the use of the polymer side panels. Unfortunately, going forward Saturn is phasing them out - the Relay doesn't use them, nor does the recently introduced Sky. Same with the Aura and the Opel-sourced replacement for the ION in '08.
So, in the future, Saturns will be just another derivative of other GM offerings. As such, I will be sure to look at other brands, makes and models when the time comes.
EDIT: up until a month ago, the L300 has been quite reliable -- just got hit with a couple of big issues in a short amount of time. Sometimes you're the pigeon, sometimes you're the statue. I guess in the past month I've been the statue!
Ya know, I didn't even notice that, lol. Normally I'm the one correcting everyone else's spelling. The 10 year old must be wearing off on me. LOL
I had an Escape for a month as a rental when the Titan was down, put nearly 3000 miles on it and loved it. I wanted to buy it but it wasn't off rental yet. Great little truck.
And ... if you're looking to us to "talk you down", you've come to the wrong forum, Missy. Each and every one of us are enablers.
I really like the Escape, maybe its the month long rental I had, I don't know, but I really like them.
You guys used to be oh so good at keeping me out of trouble, maybe everyone is just looking for someone else to buy something. Heck, its been so long since I bought a new car that nobody's even making bets anymore!!
I like my Escape so far, the only thing I really miss is the steering wheel radio controls. I don't know how many time in the past 3 weeks I put my thumb on the wheel where they used to be.
Last tank was just over 20 mpg so I am satisfied with that.
I started looking around the lot while my poor salesguy was hobbling around looking for the keys to the Escape (he's having knee surgery this morning). Well, I looked at the Ford Freestyle, that thing is cool. So after coming back from the Escape test drive I asked to drive a Freestyle, he got the keys to one and I drove it. Kind of a cool mom car, but it got me thinking hard about the Pilot too.
Me thinks I'm going to wait and think this over, I can't make up my mind what I want to do. If I wait until October I can have Zippy paid off and maybe be able to swing a Pilot or Freestyle, which means I won't have to switch cars in a couple years to get what I want.
I dunno, going back in there next week so hubby can order his new truck, that is if he decides on Ford.....he's stuck on Chevy at the moment.
My salesguy is really cool, we've bought 2 vehicles from him in the past (the Dodge and the 04 Explorer), we were both hobbling in sync last night. I've managed to goof up my left knee again, that that means no driving Zippy for a little while until it heals.
Help me out guys......what to buy?? Oh heck, maybe I'll just keep the Titan or Zippy. :confuse:
Cost was another issue. I bought a Freestyle FWD SE with tri-level climate controls (extra a/c & heater in the back), convenience group & safety package all for $24K. I think the Pilot would have cost at least a few thousand more.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
And then they complain that they can't compete. Offer a great product like your foreign rivals...and you'll succeed. Take some responsibility for your failures...learn...and move on!!!!!
Slowly using my cane to get down from the soapbox now!
The Sandman :confuse:
Worthington Ford has some used Suburbans on their lot, I thought about going that route too. I'm just so undecided and so afraid to make another mistake like I did with the Titan (love my truck, but resale and being a test rat for Nissan sour the experience).
I would like to find a vehicle I can be happy with for several years that will seat more than 5.....me thinks this is gonna be a long search. Maybe I should play pin the tail on the car and buy whatever it lands on, lol. :P
I don't want to go to the poorhouse by doing it though. What are the keys to success?
Do I only buy new when the car has a pretty flat depreciation rate? Do I buy 2 yr old vehicles exclusively? What tips do you all have?
Have a reservation for a full-size car from Alamo.. West Palm Beach..
I'm guessing a DeVille or a Grand Prix.
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
I did enjoy the Sebring I had last month...plenty of power and the power seat was very back friendly. I had rented a Malibu Classic 2 years ago in New Hampshire and I returned it at Westchester Airport the next day for a Grand Am, which was also back friendly.
Hertz was $100. more for the same sized car which is outrageous.
The Sandman
Alangl, please hang on to what you have until you are not "so" upside down. But, buying two year old cars and then trading is better than buying new I guess as much as you and Hubby trade.
Hope the daughter gets well soon!
Mark
Actually hubby has had the Ram for nearly 3 years, only reason for trading is its having to do more than its designed to do and he wants a diesel.
As for negative equity, well, yeah I've got that in the Titan was very stupid on my part to lease knowing how much I drive. Ah well, live and learn I guess.
The Honda Pilot!
I went and drove the 2002 Acura MDX today, it drove nice, I liked it, but it drove like it had 60k on it (it does). The front end felt very loose, it wasn't at all tight to drive. Lots of road noise too. Asking price on it was $24,900.
Went back to the Honda dealer and drove a Pilot, definatly what I'm buying, could have pulled the trigger today. However, I'm going to wait until fall when Zippy is paid off and I can trade her plus money down for the Pilot. That way maybe I won't be so upside down.
Hopefully the Pilot will be a wise choice.......what do you guys think??
Now back to getting my butt kicked at whatever game my 10 year old chooses........how do kids do that??
25 NX 450h+ / 24 Sienna Plat AWD / 23 Civic Type-R / 21 Boxster GTS 4.0 / 03 Montero Ltd
Looked at the Mazda5 and the 05 Legacy 2.5i wagon. 5 is a neat package, lots of nooks and crannies to store stuff in. Looks sharp in person. The third row folds pretty flat but not completely flat. Not one of those disappear into the floor deals like a minivan. Available manual tranny shifts nicely. Power is acceptable but not overwhelming. Expected that coming into it, though. Sales guy seemed bored talking about it; have concluded that a majority of black leather coat market must pivot around guys in car sales.
Drove the Legacy wagon the next day. Drove very nicely, and more peppy then I expected for the base engine. I am sure the manual helps out here. Nice interior, huge amount of room in the cargo area. And gets better gas mileage than the Mazda despite AWD. I still think it's Subaru's best looking car. Concerns- this is a big car, and is a little longer then my ideal. I may be able to live with it. Hard to put an aftermarket stereo in the non-DIN center console and I am WAY too used to ipod integration in my BMW to not have it on my next car. Had a small dent in the drivers door, but that should come out with little trouble. Also has a trailer hitch on it, which may indicate a harder early life. Clean, one owner Carfax. I liked this car more than I thought I would, though; more than the Mazda5.
I am going to check out a new Forester X manual tomorrow. Looked at one in the past but only found an automatic. Hoping the manual helps as I was not blown away by the Forester before. But it is the right size and I have to admit the current incentives make them a killer value. Nothing wrong with new. Would be slightly more than the Legacy.
Decisions, decisions...
25 NX 450h+ / 24 Sienna Plat AWD / 23 Civic Type-R / 21 Boxster GTS 4.0 / 03 Montero Ltd
I saw a 2007 Camry at the auto show, but it was an LE four-cylinder. Is the new model really that good?
Ten years ago, it was relatively uncommon to see a loaded (EX / XLE) Accord or Camry. I think the proportion of loaded models has dramatically increased.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S