Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

benjaminh

I don't need a new car. I actually still mostly love my 2008 Honda Accord EXL Navi manual. Special ordered it and still really enjoy it after 6+ years and 68,000 miles.

And yet, the next generation Mini Clubman did catch my eye. With the 3 cylinder BMW turbo it will probably get 40 mpg on the highway, compared to 31 for my Accord. And even though it's bigger than the current clubman, it's still relatively compact as cars go. Anyone else like this, or is it just me? I actually think a 4-door mini might be a big sales success. But I'm sure some purists think that it "ruins" Mini...

http://www.autoblog.com/2014/02/25/mini-clubman-concept-official-geneva/

roadburner

I'd pass on a Volt as well. A big bowl of "Meh" as far as I'm concerned...

abacomike

@roadburner said:
"I'd pass on a Volt as well. A big bowl of "Meh" as far as I'm concerned."

My point is that what good is owning a car you can't drive? I have no access to a charge for any electric. GM has had problems with the Volt and the Cadillac is a Volt in disguise.

I have nothing against Electric Vehicles, and I believe Tesla has designed and built a magnificent vehicle. Just too expensive for 80% of the driving population at $100,000 a pop.

roadburner

@abacomike

I don't hate electrics either, and I'm not saying the Volt is bad for what it is- but for me it would be a deadly dull enthusiasm-sapping mobility appliance. Give me a Tesla, an i8, or a 918 if you expect me to drive something environmentally correct.

But the Volt? I'd rather drive my '02 100% of the time.

corvette

@roadburner said:
I'd pass on a Volt as well. A big bowl of "Meh" as far as I'm concerned...

This looks more interesting, but it's not for US sale.

sb55

Road and Track mag. did a fuel mileage comparison between a Toyota Prius V and a Mercedes E 250 Bluetec on a 300 mile loop. It was a tie! Pretty impressive for the Benz.
In my Panorama mag., there was an article that said that Mercedes won't sell diesels in Illinois due to too much biodiesel allowed in that state and how it will sludge up the motor. Motor won't run on more than 8% bio and that state allows 11% bio. The farm lobby at work again:(

graphicguy

@roadburner said:
I'd pass on a Volt as well. A big bowl of "Meh" as far as I'm concerned...

The wife of a business acquaintance has one. I think she's had it for a little over a year. She loves it. No problems that I've heard them mention. I've riden in it a couple of times. Pretty impressive what GM accomplished.

That said, I think it's hitting a price point where it's just too expensive for mass adoption. I know GM has thrown some pretty big rebates at it. But, I'm betting it will sell at something around $25K-$30K. Not sure if they can hit that mark.

As far as the Caddy version? Saw one at the latest car show. $70K? Not feeling that at all.

Mike, both the Volt and the Caddy don't need an external charging source. While, they both have an electric motor that drives them, there's a gas motor also on board that charges the electric motor. Once the batteries deplete, then the gas motor starts up to charge them.

No range anxiety.

Michaell

@graphicguy said:
Mike, both the Volt and the Caddy don't need an external charging source. While, they both have an electric motor that drives them, there's a gas motor also on board that charges the electric motor. Once the batteries deplete, then the gas motor starts up to charge them.
No range anxiety.

Correct, but to get the most out of the Volt, it helps to plug it in each night so you start the day off with a full charge. As Mike lives in a condo complex, he doesn't have access to a charging station nor the ability to install one.

A Volt would work great for me, as most of my driving is for pizza delivery duty. I've been averaging about 60 miles driven per shift, which is about the range the Volt has on electricity only.

I didn't get one this past year as they were too expensive, even with all the credits available at the state and federal level.

stever

That would be a pretty good hook though - electric pizza. The store would probably get some business that way if they had some in the "fleet". Especially if you deliver to Boulder.

Michaell

@Stever@Edmunds said:
That would be a pretty good hook though - electric pizza. The store would probably get some business that way if they had some in the "fleet". Especially if you deliver to Boulder.

The corporation who holds the franchise for our store also owns the one in Boulder. My store manager used to own a Civic Hybrid; she traded it in for a Kia Optima Hybrid.

qbrozen

I like this for the money. I've gone back and forth on it in my mind because it is rather high miles, so how much more life does it have in it? But I've decided I still like it.

stickguy

@qbrozen said:
I like this for the money. I've gone back and forth on it in my mind because it is rather high miles, so how much more life does it have in it? But I've decided I still like it.

I always liked those to. 2004 was the last year for that so hopefully most of bugs worked out. Cheap enough. Perfect size and layout for me. I just don't need another high miles car. Already got 2 of them!

PF_Flyer

@Michaell@Edmunds said:
The corporation who holds the franchise for our store also owns the one in Boulder. My store manager used to own a Civic Hybrid; she traded it in for a Kia Optima Hybrid.

Electric Pizza would be clever. Still wouldn't make an EV a practical choice as a primary ride for me or the wife. We still travel too much

I may take a drive in a Leaf in the next month or so just to try it. I feel another car purchase coming on.

imidazol97

@Michaell@Edmunds said:

A Volt would work great for me, as most of my driving is for pizza delivery duty. I've been averaging about 60 miles driven per shift, which is about the range the Volt has on electricity only.

I've been car shopping and have been browsing some websites for dealers here. I'm seeing some used Volts show up on their lots.

breld

Speaking of small Volvo wagons, this is quite the rarity, isn't it?

V50 manual

I actually test drove one like this back in the day before I ended up with a TSX. Definitely a fun little wagon - but "little" being the keyword.

Michaell

@imidazol97 said:
I've been car shopping and have been browsing some websites for dealers here. I'm seeing some used Volts show up on their lots.

I'm out of the market until November 2016, which is when the lease on the E-GT is up.

But - I'm hoping for one of two things by then:

1) prices of hybrid / partial-EV vehicles comes down

2) I've "retired" from the pizza delivery job

laurasdada

@abacomike said:

As for the $4500+ rebate/incentive, even if I could get one for nothing, I 'd pass on the deal.

What are your impressions, dada?

I was only joking about buying an ELR, poking you regarding your enjoyment of buying new cars on a regular basis!

I like the idea of the Volt/ELR/i3/i8... configuration. Electric motor with backup generator. The current crop of "affordable" pure electric cars' range anxiety isn't yet for me, especially if I was to own only one car. However, a 35-40 mile electric range would allow my daily communte without worrying about running out of juice with the generators. And I could drive it on road trips. Tesla is certainely an accomplishement, however, as you travel you still need the ability to plug in (and the time to allow the charge) to keep going vs. gassing up a hybrid electric as a normal ICE. We still need the next big battery breakthrough. Or hydrogen...

The ELR? Handsome, but a toy. And an expensive one. While it has a luxurious (if a bit claustrophobic and busy) interior, I personlly don't see twice the price of a Volt. The Volt can seat four with luggage room, not so much the ELR, it has a back seat akin to my former Jag XK. Like roadburner, my choice would be the forthcoming i8...

xwesx

@benjaminh

The Clubman update looks like it was done well. I have always had a soft spot for Mini, but not enough to seriously considering the purchase of one up to this point.

qbrozen

@breld said:
Speaking of small Volvo wagons, this is quite the rarity, isn't it?

V50 manual

I actually test drove one like this back in the day before I ended up with a TSX. Definitely a fun little wagon - but "little" being the keyword.

Yes, but man is that overpriced.

breld

That's what I figured on the pricing (not that it's something I'm personally interested in). I've never been to this place, but it seems they sort of "specialize" in used Volvos. So they're obviously looking for the select few who would jump at the rare manual wagon.

stickguy

@breld said:
That's what I figured on the pricing (not that it's something I'm personally interested in). I've never been to this place, but it seems they sort of "specialize" in used Volvos. So they're obviously looking for the select few who would jump at the rare manual wagon.

Does seem high but not that much.. A bit of a cult car. And rare. Way different than the base putt putt mobile like my S40. More like comparing a WRX to an imprezza. I drove an AT version of that car and it was fun.

So quite likely priced for the buyer that just has to have one. A junior V70R

breld

Just an observation I made recently, and curious as to your all's thoughts.

Passing a Subaru dealership on the way to work earlier this week, they have 5-6 BRZ's lined up at the front of the shop available for sale.

A little sad, but I suspect that with all the anticipation and excitement for the BRZ/FR-S from the car publications and enthusiast community, the initial interest was fulfilled, and the market reflects the relatively low interest in such a car (which is exactly why most manufacturers stopped selling them for so long).

stickguy

Very niche market

kyfdx

And.. not that I'm a power guy... But, 200 HP, when you can get a Genesis Coupe with 274 HP, or a WRX with 268 HP for about the same money... Personally, I'd take the FRS or BRZ, but the competition is stiff, and no one buys Scions any more..

rayainsw

My BMW M235i test drive – first one available to drive here near Atlanta. [ Will probably drive another one within the next week or so. ]

Equip. = ZF A8 automatic, Blue over black, Premium Pkg, Tech Pkg & heated seats.
MSRP = $49,525 Not cheap, of course, but comparably equipped it would be several thousand less than the list price of the 2011 335iS I had.

Very quick. Feels about as quick as I remember the 335iS to be. [ R&T test numbers bear this out. ] Sounds great. It is quieter in Normal Mode than the 335iS was, though that distinct, straight 6 cylinder sound is clear & obvious - but not intrusive. The gearing [ 80 MPH in top gear = approx. 2,000 RPM ] means any engine & exhaust noise fades away completely at highway speeds. [ This also likely contributes to that EPA Highway rating of 32 MPG. Much better that the 335iS with DCT. ]

Comfortable and supportive front seats. I had no issues with the interior materials, fit or finish. Overall, the interior is much like the 335iS I had – nothing jarring there, to me.

I like the looks of the exterior. Styling is largely subjective, of course, but I just never warmed up to the 135.

The ride and handling compromise with the non-runflat Michelin Pilot Super Sports is excellent, as one would expect. Firm ride, certainly, but reasonably compliant. Ultimate handling capability is impossible to explore on a 10 minute test drive on public roads – I leave that to the automotive journalists and professional test drivers. [ Closed course, etc. ] 18” 225/40 fronts & 245/35 series rears. It looks to me like a spare wheel and tire would largely fill the trunk. I wonder is one would fit behind the passenger seat? [ Shrink wrapped, of course. ]

The automatic is excellent, in normal mode. I really like the fact that the paddles are always active. I use them a lot, for both up and down shifts – often just for fun. Shifts were quick & smooth, with no slop. I will try Sport \ Sport+ Modes at some point.

The steering was certainly OK to me. Though now electric, again, it felt very much as I remember the 335iS. No problems here for me.

Gripes = minor:
I would prefer a slightly larger fuel tank – only 13.7 gal - really? 12 gal [ leaving a reasonable reserve ] times 30 MPG = 360 miles range. OK, I guess.
I would prefer the option of a spare tire & wheel – and a place to put it.
That is about it.

Unless something changes drastically in the automotive world over the next 12 months [ or I win the lottery ] I think this will likely be my next purchase.

Cheers,

• Ray

Back to BMW??

kyfdx

What do they have in place of a spare? Fix-a-flat?

rayainsw

Exactly.

kyfdx

I'd take one... The bummer for us stick-shift drivers? No discount for dropping the slushbox... same price.

rayainsw

At least you CAN have a manual trans.

Fewer & fewer cars are now available with a stick.....

kyfdx

Yeah... I probably won't hang on long enough, for this model to be cheap enough for my next car... I've been considering a 2011 E92 328i or a 2012 128i for my next ride... RWD and a stick. If I can make it two more years with my '06 (currently at 81K miles), either of those should be in my financial wheelhouse.

stickguy

Nice review. The rubber band tires and no spare is a dealbreaker .to me. Not with the way our roads are now. Nothing but bomb craters. And that tank is nonsense. Probably get in the teens around town so won't break 200 by much if like me you never let it go below 1/4 tank.

I could however be interested in a 128 equipped the right way! If I had any money...

rayainsw

As I understand it, you can specify runflat, all-season, same size on all corners
in place of the Michelins - for no charge:

Option code = 2TR 18" double-spoke 436M wheels w/ all-season tires NC
(18x7.5, 225/40 R18)

isellhondas

@qbrozen said:
[I like this for the money.]

(http://cnj.craigslist.org/cto/4294220639.html "cnj.craigslist.org/cto/4294220639.html") I've gone back and forth on it in my mind because it is rather high miles, so how much more life does it have in it? But I've decided I still like it.

@qbrozen said:
I like this for the money. I've gone back and forth on it in my mind because it is rather high miles, so how much more life does it have in it? But I've decided I still like it.
@qbrozen said:
I like this for the money. I've gone back and forth on it in my mind because it is rather high miles, so how much more life does

it have in it? But I've decided I still like it.

My years in the car business really soured me on Volvos and they were a car I used to like having owned a couple of the old "bricks" and even a pair of PV544's.

Modern Volvos can be very troublesome and expensive to keep running.. A bad transmission or other major repair would effectively total that wagon.

Lastly, I always thought of the 40's as a wannabee Volvo. They are small inside and cramped.

It seemed like whenever our store would take a chance on a traded in Volvo that we would get burned. That's why we just wholesaled them usually like we did Audis, most VW's and Land Rovers. We didn't need or want unhappy customers.

fintail

S40 is a Mitsu, isn't it? And isn't there a year or two of S80 that is almost guaranteed a transmission failure? I think the newer ones are better. The turn of the century was a bad time for most Euro cars.

corvette

@rayainsw said:
My BMW M235i test drive – first one available to drive here near Atlanta. [

Nice review. Way out of my price range for the foreseeable future, though!

graphicguy

@rayainsw said:
Exactly.

Ray....thanks. The M235i, even 2-3 years from now, is among those at the top of my shopping list(s).

qbrozen

@isellhondas said:

You and I have discussed many times before. There are bad and good models.

The S/V40 certainly wasn't the nicest volvo, but I've driven a V40 and thought it quite nice for the money. I like small cars, though. In contrast, I found the C30 to be pretty cheap feeling.

To fintail: yes, the S80 T6 utilized a GM transmission that was a guaranteed failure. They didn't even learn their lesson and used that same setup in the first gen XC90 T6.

stickguy

A chain drive tranny. what could go wrong? I think they had to use that. Just so much room with a long I6 sitting sideways driving the front wheels to fit in a trans. But yeah, it was trouble with a capital T>

And yes, the 40 was a remodeled Mitsubishi. The early ones had some issues I believe, but that 2004 was the last year, and if maintained, could be OK. At least it is cheap enough. And has really good seats!

From the little map in that ad, I know exactly where that car is located (though not sure how CL comes up with the map).

nyccarguy

@rayainsw

Great write up & review on the M235i. I echo what @stickguy said. Too much, too small fuel tank, & I don't think I could get 3 blocks away without blowing out one of those 35 series Pilot Super Sports.

@kyfdx

I think you'll be content with an E92 328i or 128i RWD/6MT. Definitely not as visceral as your ZHP, but still fun to drive none the less.

Since we are talking about gas mileage. I just pumped 20.045 gallons of $3.699 (down $.10 thanks to Stop & Shop rewards) RUG (87) into my wife's Pilot. According to my fuelly dashboard, 11.9 mpg.

While I was filling up, some guy pulled up next to me in an A8L W12. Nice ride!

stever

"The Stingray Precision Drive is your chance to prove it. Immerse yourself in the technology that went into the new Corvette Stingray and learn some of the finer points of precision driving."

Stingray Precision Drive

roadburner

I still want to try an M235i, but if I don't go vintage I'm still thinking Z4 M Coupe or Cayman S. And I still want to take my MS3 to a few HPDEs to see how well it does with the FSDs, a tune, and the PSS...

abacomike

@nyccarguy said:
"Since we are talking about gas mileage. I just pumped 20.045 gallons of $3.699..."

Two weeks ago I was paying $3.659 for premium (less 5% on my Chase Freedom Card Jan - Mar). Today, the best price I could find was $3.899, up 24 cents a gallon in just 2 weeks.

I've researched Costco, but everyone I talk to about their premium fuel tells me to use only tier 1 fuel (Shell, Mobil, Texaco, Chevron) and to avoid Costco with my V8 engine. I know we've discussed this hundreds of times, but Costco still has not received tier 1 rating because of a lack of essential additives. Costco claims their gas is as good as tier 1, but in fact it still has not received that rating for the above reasons.

If I had the 6 cylinder, I would not be as finicky, but Mercedes. BMW, Audi, etc., does not recommend any brands that have not received tier 1 rating. With a 4.7 liter bi-turbo V8, I am skiddish about using Costco except in a pinch.

What say the group here?

ab348

@stickguy said:
A chain drive tranny. what could go wrong?

The original Olds Toronado used a chain drive for its transmission that was very good. Seldom heard of any issues with that part.

abacomike

@ab348 said:
"The original Olds Toronado used a chain drive for its transmission that was very good. Seldom heard of any issues with that part."

I owned two Toronados and both were excellent vehicles - styled after the Cadillac Eldorado. It was FWD, but the engine was not transversely mounted - it was mounted the same as a RWD vehicle which is why it probably had a chain drive.

graphicguy

@abacomike said:
nyccarguy said:
"Since we are talking about gas mileage. I just pumped 20.045 gallons of $3.699..."

Two weeks ago I was paying $3.659 for premium (less 5% on my Chase Freedom Card Jan - Mar). Today, the best price I could find was $3.899, up 24 cents a gallon in just 2 weeks.

I've researched Costco, but everyone I talk to about their premium fuel tells me to use only tier 1 fuel (Shell, Mobil, Texaco, Chevron) and to avoid Costco with my V8 engine. I know we've discussed this hundreds of times, but Costco still has not received tier 1 rating because of a lack of essential additives. Costco claims their gas is as good as tier 1, but in fact it still has not received that rating for the above reasons.

If I had the 6 cylinder, I would not be as finicky, but Mercedes. BMW, Audi, etc., does not recommend any brands that have not received tier 1 rating. With a 4.7 liter bi-turbo V8, I am skiddish about using Costco except in a pinch.

What say the group here?

Mike...I'm a big proponent of Costco fuel. I've been using it for over a decade, pretty near exclusively, and never....I mean absolutely NEVER....had any issues with it. I've been driving some pretty sweet iron in that time, too (supercharged Audi, twin scroll turbo BMW w/performance pack, 5.3L V8 in a Tahoe, RX8 Rotary, etc).

The Costco in my area is Kirkland Signature, which is their highest rated product designator. From the info I've read, they have 5X that additives the EPA requires.

The reason they have not applied for Tier 1 is because they're in the midst of remaking some of their stations to handle the Tier 1 gas. Overall, the Costco fueling stations are the cleanest I've ever encountered, too.

Add to that, I just filled up last night and paid 25¢ less per gallon that any other station remotely near me (even more if I had gone to Shell).

I have not doubt that if anything were to ever go amiss with Costco fuel, they would be more than happy to fix my car and compensate me for my trouble. Try that with another station.

Seems to me the "Tier 1" brands are using it more as a tool to charge more, than to actually be a better performing product, when compared to Costco.

nyccarguy

@abacomike

I use Costco pretty much exclusively in my BMW. I stop at Costco on my way home. It is right off of I-95 in NY where the gas is cheaper than in CT. I paid $3.859 for PUG (93 Octane). If I see I won't have enough gas to make it 35 miles to work and 10 miles to Costco, I'll fill up at the Shell Station (Tier 1 PUG 93 Octane V-Power). I've noticed absolutely no difference in performance, range, or fuel economy.

qbrozen

I searched around a bit for some volvos last night and came up with quite a few of interest.

If this one was closer, I'd be taking a look. Even as a flip. I could take care of all of that fairly cheaply and easily. I'd just have to make sure that noise from the front is suspension related and not an AWD problem.

This is a bit on the cheap side

High miles, low price.

The wife would love this one, although maybe not the black interior. Might seem a little high, but it was listed as "above average" at the auction and they paid accordingly.

nyccarguy

@qbrozen

Tenafly is right over the GW bridge. Not terribly far from where I work with no traffic. If you are seriously interested, I'd go and give it a look/drive for you.

qbrozen

ha. thanks, but I would never put anyone else in a situation to assess such a neglected machine.

stickguy

Q, I like some of that. The black one in tens fly is a sad case of neglect. Bet the oil was never changed either. Could be a nightmare.

The R does seem cheap. A nod the V50 is exact same colors as my S40.

I like the CC too but have no desire for an AWD Volvo. Fwd is fine for me and less risky