Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

akangl

and when do you have time to go the Opera? Or a play, or anything else entertaining? A woman who even knows that they have parts for a front differential needs a night out on the town!!! Tell hubby I said so!

Keep on working hard, it will pay off one day!

Time?? What's that?? Only reason I've had time to be on here today is because hubby's at work and I'm laying around the house not feeling very well. Otherwise we would be doing something firewood related I'm sure.

We spent all day yesterday in town running errands, bad part of that was the fact it was my birthday. Ah well, we had fun (as much fun as errands can be) and got home about 11 last night. Gotta love living in the middle of nowhere!

anonymousposts

I fly out tomorrow to go up to VA to finalize the job offer. Just as the story of a plane crash in Kentucky breaks. And it's the same aircraft I will be flying ...

corvette

...plane crash in Kentucky...

Yikes, that's just a couple of miles from me!

Oh, yeah, my sticking tachometer appears to have reset itself overnight.

mark156

anonymousposts

From what I have heard there's a big possibility the pilot picked the shorter runway that is not typically used for that aircraft. There is a 3500 ft runway and a 7000ft runway .. he chose the 3500 ft which, according to experts, would not have allowed the plane to get up to the necessary speed for a successful take-off.

akangl

Thank you Mark.

woodyww

I hate to sound macabre, but statistically it probably improves your chances even beyond the norm. And I don't know the Lexington KY airport, but I'm guessing it's a smaller one? Not that I'm not freaked out myself by that crash.....

corvette

...statistically it probably improves your chances even beyond the norm.

I think it's kind of like a coin toss (except with much smaller odds), which has no "memory," although, there may be improved procedures as a result of the crash which do improve the odds.

The Lexington airport was recently expanded but is still small.

sandman46

We've been in St. Louis the past 4 days...are y'all really moving? Lucky us, we come home last night & now we are going to get something from this latest storm. Living in South Florida does have it's downside...and hurricanes are it.
Rented a Corolla LE in St. Louis & I must say, it's in dire need of a new model. It felt like a low grade appliance, at least to me. Noisy & underpowered...just shows how fast the technology changes.

The Sandman

nippononly

is definitely trailing the class these days. Of course, it's also old and cheap, with nothing cheaper available but the Focus, even including the Koreans. And it gets great gas mileage even among the brand new models, which is why it's selling so well still. But it's still a surprising choice for Toyota to delay the next-gen a year, even given the stated reasons.

Speaking of deals, seems like you can get a base Mercury Milan for $16K and change these days, and get 72-month 0% financing into the bargain. It's a pretty well-equipped car for that price tag. I'd take that over the new Sonata - drove one of those, didn't seem to match all the hype.

graphicguy

nippon....interesting observation about the Milan. Niece is looking for an "entry" level car. She's been stuck on the Corrola and Civic. Of course, no one is moving much on price with the Civic. The toyota, aside from the reliability ranking, doesn't do much for her.

Don't know if I can get her in a Mercury showroom or not, though. At that price, it would be an interesting option.

nippononly

Yeah, you give up some fuel economy vs Civic/Corolla, but you get some extra doodads for your money (like a partially power seat, for instance). And 24/32 is decent for a midsize car.

Dealers are moving $2000 south on Corolla sticker prices though - you would definitely be able to get a much lower price on a basic Corolla vs the Milan, even with the current incentives.

It's year-end close-out time for Honda - have the dealers got any 2006 Civics left in stock? You would think you could get them down a little on price if so.

british_rover

The inside of the Milan looks very nice. If it drives like the Mazda 6 does, which I would expect it to although thye might soften the suspensioni some for Mercury, then I think it would be a great buy.

jlawrence01

I have to confess that if someone held a gun to my head right now and forced me to buy a new car, it would be the Corolla. I have been driving them on weekend rentals quite a bit lately. I like the handling and I like the fuel economy. There is NO way that I would spend over $14k for the vehicle.

I like the Milan a lot also. Slick appearance. However, it is NOT a car that I would pay "top dollar" for until I see 1) how many recalls there are and 2) How much of a depreciation I would be hit with.

british_rover

Well it is basicly a mazda 6 without the boy racer styling so I wouldn't expect a ton of recalls or at least any recalls related to important things.

I am sure depreciation would be very bad but just keep it forever or pass it down to someone else in the family and who cares.

nippononly

the Fusion has been one of the best model intros Ford has had in a long time - have there been ANY major recalls so far? And we are a year in, so we are over the trouble period. I think the Milan will be a reliable model.

As mentioned above, depreciation will be typically Ford-terrible, but keep it five years and pay it off, and what difference will it make? Ford is now warranting all powertrains for five years too, so you will be under warranty the entire time for the expensive important stuff.

woodyww

I have to agree with jlawrence01, maybe not in picking the Corolla over the Civic, but in putting the Mercury product last on the list of the 3. I don't know the Milan, but I do have experience with the exc. reliability (& usually, resale value) of Hondas & Toyotas.

I'm guessing of the 3, esp. for a younger person, the Civic would have the most "prestige', or "sex appeal".

P.S. Even if you kept each car for 5 or more years, the depreciation differences between the 3 would probably be substantial. I've sold 5 or 10 year old Civics, Corollas, & 1 Toyota P/U, & the phone rings off the hook; people seem almost frantic to buy them. I can't really imagine that happening with a Ford economy car.

Just my 2cents, woody

jlawrence01

have to agree with jlawrence01, maybe not in picking the Corolla over the Civic, but in putting the Mercury product last on the list of the 3

I have never been impressed with ANY aspect of the Honda Civic. The seats are uncomfortable to me as they feel like they are made for a smaller person. My head always seems too close to the windshield and my legs feel squeezed.

In ALL fairness, I have NOT driven the most recent incarnation of the beast.

I like the Milan's looks (its WOW! factor). However, I ALSO remember how many times I was heading to the mechanic with my last two Ford products vs. the two Olds that I have owned.

jlawrence01

I am keeping the 1996 Olds Ciera vs. buying the 2004 Chevy Impala. I think that the beast will get another three relatively trouble-free years.

However, at work on Friday, someone posted a 1990 Olds Cutlass for sale for $500. Everyone assumed that the vehicle for sale was mine. I have had four or five people come into the office promising to take "my problem off of my hands".

The last guy was saying that he didn't think that I would screw up the pricing THAT MUCH!!!

woodyww

Suddenly I remember doing very poorly in a statistics class in college :-)

How's the bmw? Any new electrical glitches? Hope Not.

I was looking at new Tacoma P/U's today at the local Toyota dealer. They ranged from about $23K (sticker) to $28K for 4x4 V6 auto. extra-cabs; the more expensive ones had the TRD package. It would probably be nuts for me to sell a mint-condition 6 y.o. bmw 5-series wagon to buy a Tacoma. Nevertheless I was getting pretty interested until I remembered the Tacoma P/U's don't have side or head airbags.

Anyone here have an opinion on buying a new Tacoma? They're supposed to have great resale value. And I haven't had my "truck gene" satisifed in several years. I'd consider a used one, but people usually say they get "silly money" so it may not be worth buying used.

graphicguy

Woody....Tacoma's are highly regarded.

That said, I would think the current "mood" of the vehicle buying public...have them staying away in droves from any sort of truck. Probably could swing a good deal on one.

But, a BMW for a Pick-up? That raised even my CCBA eyebrows......

crimsona

And yet - the Corolla could very well outsell the Camry on a month to month basis. It's pretty close now, I'm very interested in what August figures will show.

The Civic vs Accord isn't even anywhere close, percentage wise

british_rover

Tacomas bring stupid money even when beat up.

This past Jan. I took a 1999 or 1998 Tacoma V6 4WD extended cab manual tranny with a little over 100,000 miles and a lot of scratches and minor dents.

I think we put around 9,500 on that vehicle.

corvette

The sticking tach seems to have gone away on its own... Weird.

I think you can order a Tacoma with VSC and side airbags, but it's a completely different animal than your 5-er...

I think we have similar criteria. I want something with all the safety bells and whistles, but also with enough power and grip to be interesting... The RDX seems better suited to that ideal than the Tacoma. I could see having a daily driver that doesn't fit those criteria, and having a fun car for the weekend, but being stuck driving the utilitarian car all the time would get old.

au1994

I've had a 95 Tacoma and a 04 4Runner and they were fine trucks, but the seats are horrible. They were both very flat and not very deep so you sat with you legs extend out instead of down. New Tacoma's might be different, but keep it in mind. They feel ok for short trips, but anything over an hour drive and its uncomfortable.

nippononly

is not available with side airbags at any price, I don't think. But they're very rugged long-lasting trucks, and they sell ike hotcakes even in these times of challenging gas prices. Yes, they retain their value ENORMOUSLY well, and their owners love them - there are never many for sale at any given time, despite annual sales of 100K or more (a lot more in some years) since time immemorial.

They make an X-Runner you might like, coming out of the BMW and all. Has a pretty good handling package (for a truck) that includes quicker steering and transforms the Tacoma. Not especially fast though - just 240ish hp in a moderately heavy vehicle (I forget woody, is yours a 325i or a 330i? The X-Runner could probably keep up with a 325 despite its weight). Also has the same 6-speed shifter as the rest of the V-6 Tacomas, so you would want to trade that out maybe, although the feel of it is pretty good.

Geez, maybe I should trade MY truck for an X-Runner - I'm talking myself into one here! :-P

corvette

Tacoma pricing
GY Curtain Side Airbags
Includes front side airbags and front and rear curtain airbags. REQUIRES RL.

I bet there aren't any available equipped with that option--the regional Toyota distributors only order cars in certain configurations, which usually don't include optional safety equipment. In some regions they might not even special order one for you.

I heard the manual-tranny Tacoma doesn't return to idle in between gear changes, even if you let your foot off the gas (some sort of emissions thing). That would take some getting used to.

nippononly

"I heard the manual-tranny Tacoma doesn't return to idle in between gear changes, even if you let your foot off the gas (some sort of emissions thing). That would take some getting used to."

A great many cars and trucks do that now, if they have the electronic throttle control. The reason is that if you suddenly let your foot off the gas, NOx emissions go way up just for a second, and they want to get emissions down to meet current standards. Try driving a Chevy Cobalt some time - that one stands out among the many models I have driven in recent times as having that problem really badly. I have driven the V-6 Tacoma with the stick, and it is not as bad as others I have sampled.

Now as for the curtain airbag package thing, you have me flummoxed there. I have never seen one, so I think it would be hard to come by. I am very surprised to learn it is even an option. Is it only available in d-cabs, or Xtracabs as well? My guess is, probably just d-cabs.

british_rover

Might find this interesting.

Inside look at Volvo Crash Test Center.

fintail

Very cool...one can't question their devotion to safety. I wish I had a facility like that, so I could buy up all the Rendezvous and Santa Fes etc of the world and smash them.

I need to dig up the old video I have that shows fintails and other period MB being crash tested. Some of the methods were very amusing.

corvette

Looks like they're only available on the double-cab models, but VSC is available on all cab configurations.

I never saw a Camry or Altima in 2003 that had the optional airbags, either, but you could get them if you did a special-order. Again, Toyota's distribution system is very strange, so the cars that are on dealer lots are generally optioned only a couple of different ways. Different regions or dealers may or may not be willing or able to special order a car.

anonymousposts

Looks like it. Depending on how the meeting goes tomorrow and what their offer is to buy our house.

I flew into Norfolk today and had a choice between a Crown Vic/Impala or a Cobalt. I chose the Cobalt. It drives surprisingly well. It's a LT coupe with wheels, leather wrapped wheel, etc. Not bad.

tifighter

How are the values holding on E39's right now, anyway? I am currently out of a BMW phase since I sold the Z3 (a CCBA-er is always around the corner from any phase again, though) and haven't kept track. The wagons seem regional, but finding a good one was still an expensive proposition not too long ago...

derrado1

Goodie! Did it come with tires too? :P

It's weird though, the contrast between a Crown Vic and a Cobalt. On one hand you've got huge, V8 and the other a small, nimble 4cyl.

woodyww

How are the values holding on E39's right now, anyway?

Lousy, based on the last time I did some checking on ebay, & when I last ran the used values for mine on Edmunds. Of course it all depends on year, mileage, 6 or V8, etc.

I just looked--I ran the Edmunds thing in April--it came up with $13,950 wholesale, & $17,450 dealer retail for a 2000 528i wagon with 24,000 miles. I'm sure it's less now. One good thing--the 2000 MY was the last year for the 2.8L in the wagon; after that it was the 2.5L. I'd better just keep the thing--would be hard to get anything that nice, safe, + exc. handling for that kind of $$, at least with super-low miles.

"Sometimes", used Benzes or bmw's can be great buys when they're 4+ years old--if you buy a model known for being pretty reliable (like the E39, knock wood). Altho I've been scared off of Benzes since the late '90's (when the new E-Class came out in '96). Before that, I believed that image of being able to run them for 100K--200K miles, even if repairs were expensive.....

perna

I have to agree with jlawrence01, maybe not in picking the Corolla over the Civic, but in putting the Mercury product last on the list of the 3. I don't know the Milan, but I do have experience with the exc. reliability (& usually, resale value) of Hondas & Toyotas.

I've driven a Fusion (the Milan is even nicer inside), and a Corolla, and sat in the Civic. Apple, orange, orange. The Corolla was a buzzy little junkbox, and the Civic felt like a teenager's econocar. The Fusion drives and handles like a "real" car, and has a much nicer interior than the Corolla and Civic. I think a teen would think the Civic's interior is nicer due to the "spaceship" look, but to my 32 YO eyes it looks kind of tacky.

lilengineerboy

Its funny you should say that perna. I think that cluster style (instrument panel) is Honda adopting the same concerns as Toyota (with their push to center clusters), with a different execution. Instead of center clusters (Scion, Echo, Saturn Ion), Honda uses a horizon display for the speed, making it very easy to read, reducing eyes off road time, and reducing "accommodation" (when you get older and you focus on something far away, it takes your eyes a second to focus on something close up, it will be more important when you are 40+) by appearing further away (this also helps people who are nearsighted and use vision correction when they drive, or, most of the population).
Kids are more accepting of new technology, but most of the stuff in that car will help older older drivers drive longer.

woodyww

I couldn't really decipher the X-Runner details from my catalog, or the Toyota website. But it looks like it's "lowered"? i.e. has less ground clearance than other 4wd Tacomas?

Part of my rationale for this would be to get something with AWD/4WD that would also have enough height to get thru, I dunno, 6-10 inchs of snow. And I'm not sure I want the Hood Scoop on the X-Runner. Not that I'm saying not to get an X-Runner if that's what you want!

Do you, or does anyone here know, what options are best for resale? I know I'd want 4x4 Access Cab, V6, auto. And either SR5 or TRD. Do you get some of your $$ back with one of the TRD packages, when you sell?

woodyww

Yeah, the RDX sounds like a great vehicle. I think I just don't want to pay $33K for my next car.......

The Tacoma would make a lot more sense for me if "I had to buy a vehicle". But I don't: my 5-series is in near mint condition, & has had only a couple of minor things go wrong in 6 years (knock wood!).

The only way I can rationalize buying a new Tacoma, sort of, is if: I keep the BMW. (Then you can get into, if I want a 2nd vehicle, why buy a P/U, if I already have a wagon? And If I just want a Snow Car, I could get a 10 y.o. Subaru for $5K).

The only thing I can say is, I like the way the Tacomas look. And I could make it my Winter vehicle, with 4wd & the right tires. If the resale value is as good as people say, hopefully I could sell it & not lose too much if it doesn't work out. And I need a "truck fix", for whatever reasons.......maybe if I can get a great deal from my local toyota dealer, it wouldn't be my worst automotive purchase.....

nippononly

Yeah, X-Runners are RWD only. They are lowered and have special suspension, extra X-bracing (hence the model name) under the bed for less body flex, limited-slip rear diff, and larger rims and tires (I believe with the new model they are summer tires).

Best options for resale: auto and 4WD. Both will get you a good return, 4WD especially in the Tacoma. You have to get the SR5 package IMO - it has the stuff I like including cruise, improved stereo depending on the package, privacy glass and rear slider, and leather on the shifter and steering wheel. But it won't get you a whole lot in resale - might make the truck easier to sell though.

There are several different TRD packages - the sport ones include the X-Runner's suspension components but are not lowered and don't have its rims or seats, or the visual stuff (except some have the hood scoop - I agree, that's silly. I wouldn't want it). They won't get you a whole lot in resale either, I wouldn't think.

The off-road ones include locking diff, better suspension and tires, and a few things like that (lots of appearance stuff, in typical Toyota fashion). Skid plates come with those packages too. Not a whole lot of resale value there, but probably more than the TRD sport packages, and they make the truck decidedly more attractive to a buyer who will actually use it offroad.

nippononly

The only Toyotas holding their value better than Tacomas right now are Prius and Lexus. Tacoma has excellent resale.

But the V-6 auto 4x4 XtraCab with TRD offroad package you are contemplating is going to get close to a $30K sticker, especially if you manage to find one with the VSC and you still want that. It's a lot of green, and it will pull maybe 18 mpg in normal use.

I have been looking at Tacomas pretty seriously recently....I have been looking at 4-cyl 4WDs though, which are a rare breed at Toyota dealerships...

corvette

If you really like the Tacoma, there's nothing wrong with having that plus a station wagon. And, if you get something you want, versus just a snow car, you'd probably drive it occasionally just for a change of scenery. But, it sounds like a loaded one may cost nearly as much as an RDX, and you'll have to roll your own nav system.

andre1969

but I've sat in a few Fusions and Milans. I kinda like them. Not that big on the outside, but I can fit comfortably inside, even in the back seat. And the interior quality seems pretty decent. That pebble grain interior is a bit of an aquired taste, but it seems that Ford is at least using a lot of soft-touch surfaces, in contrast to the hard plastic so many others go for.

As for the Civic versus the Corolla, I'd have to go with the Civic. Even if the dash is kinda Battlestar Galactica, I like the driving position better. For the Corolla, it seems to me like you almost have to be built like an ape to fit comfortably, with short legs and long arms. When I put the seat back all the way, my legs are still cramped, but the steering wheel is a bit of a reach. If they made the seat go back any further, I wouldn't be able to reach the steering wheel at all! Now my uncle has an '03 Corolla, but to be honest, he IS built kinda like an ape! He has short legs, a long torso, and fairly long arms.

That's my biggest complaint about the Corolla...the driving position. Oh, and the $1500 catalytic converter. :mad: And to a lesser degree, the egg-shape.

sandman46

After renting the Corolla last week, I'm very glad I went with the Civic. A nicer, quieter car and the dash is pretty cool. My eyes don't have to move much to see the speedo which I kinda like. Now, if the new Corolla had been out by now, I might just have chosen it over the Civic. Looks like a scaled down Camry to me & it looks great from the spy shots. I guess timing is everything.

Anony, I also had the choice of the Corolla or the decked out Cobalt coupe last week. If there were just the 2 of us...probaly would've taken the Cobalt. It was silver with the alloys and it had a nice muscular stance to it. But since my son was with us for the 1st part of the trip & with all the luggage we had...went with the Corolla. By the way, which car company is the job with? What will Gee end up doing after y'all move?

The Sandman

woodyww

I wonder why--Tacomas have better resale than 4Runners, for instance? Or RAV 4's? I guess it's just because it's a P/U.

To say I don't "need" the TRD package is probably an understatement. I guess I need to figure out the cost of one of the TRD packages vs. one of the SR5 packages. Figuring out option "packages" on Toyotas I find very frustrating. To be honest, will I really buy one? I might--I need to see what my local Toyota dealers are doing on Tacomas. Right now it's my current automotive fantasy (I can't afford a new Porsche).

Would you get the 4x4 XtraCab 4cyl? Stick, or auto? Toyota has very good interest rates on Tacomas now I think. But if they're rare, maybe you could get a better deal on a V6??

perna

but I've sat in a few Fusions and Milans. I kinda like them. Not that big on the outside, but I can fit comfortably inside, even in the back seat. And the interior quality seems pretty decent. That pebble grain interior is a bit of an aquired taste, but it seems that Ford is at least using a lot of soft-touch surfaces, in contrast to the hard plastic so many others go for.

Personally, I think the Fusion/Milan pretty much destroy any car in its class interior-wise. The one exception is that painfully cheesy "clock" in the center stack. The hands are made out of the cheapest imaginable plastic, and Ford didn't even bother to paint them chrome. Nasty.

I really like the leather that Ford starting using in '06 in vehicles such as the Fusion and Escape. It seems like it would stand up to quite a bit of abuse, in comparison to the junk that was in my wife's '01 Escape.

Speaking of which, she has absolutely fallen in love with the Ford Edge. 265 hp, great interior, hatch, SUV stance, good (est) gas mileage, built-in Sirius. If I let her, she'd order one NOW, the 9 months left on the Explorer lease be damned.

perna

My Maxima will be paid off in t-minus 3 months and counting. If I actually have the lien-free title in my hand, do I have to relinquish my charter CCBA status???

In all seriousness, that Maxima has been better to me that I could have imagined when I drove her off the lot 3 1/2 years ago. It still drives like a brand-new car, not a rattle or squeak to be heard. It really broke me of compulsively buying cars every year or two, because I am REALLY picky and have traded in cars for an undiagnosed rattle in the past or even crappy OEM tires.

My plan is for wifey to buy her Ford Edge or whatever in the spring, pay it off in 3 years, then when the bug bites go for something really fast and RWD (thanks to her Ford obsession, I sat in a Mustang GT convertible next weekend. NICE.). I'd put 15" steelies on the Maxima and keep it for a winter beater. I just can't bring myself to trade that car in.. somebody (Terry?) said that some cars are just born with halos on their roofs.

The only problem... I have a 2 car garage.

corvette

...I am REALLY picky and have traded in cars for an undiagnosed rattle in the past or even crappy OEM tires.

We think a lot alike!

nippononly

Yeah, I would want the XtraCab 4x4 4-cyl stick, a VERY rare puppy. If I were to get impatient the V-6 is pretty easy to find in that configuration, at least. Me, I am obsessive about the 14% fuel savings in the 4-cyl, which engine I consider more than adequate for my needs. My truck would never be really loaded down, want it mainly for some offroading and ski trips and the like, as well as very light hauling duties.

TRD packages are in the neighborhood of $1000-1500 more than the SR5 packages, and of course you don't need to get both - the TRD packages include all the stuff in the SR5 packages.

4Runners have always had VERY good resale as well, until the big anti-SUV market backlash that's been going on since the gas prices spiked. Since then, 4Runner resale has taken it right on the nose.

RAV4s are car-based, so their resale has never been as hot, but it's still pretty solid. One of the better Toyotas in that regard.

It seems like Toyota doesn't build any 4-cyl 4x4 Tacomas with the expensive packages (is this a blessing or a curse? I'm not sure. :-P). SR5 is about it, which would probably be fine for me. I like the look of the TRD offroad package, knobbier tires and all, but get that with the V-6 and you're at $28-29K sticker before you know what happened. :-(

That's a lot for a vehicle that will get 18 to the gallon and be more expensive to insure.

british_rover

I have been posting a lot of top gear videos lately and I think this particular one is very relevant to the topic of Toyota trucks.

Unbreakable

Really unbreakable