My car is in the shop and am contemplating on replacing it (still up in the air). I wasnt planning on doing it for another couple of years but figured I'd start looking around atleast since its been 5 years and 108k miles now. Anyways, came across a 2000 merc E430 (I know its a gas hog 14 ltrs per 100km ) but hey its a merc for 16 grand CAD. These things were 60 grand new (canadian prices ofcourse). It looks used and a bit wretched and has 105k km (65k miles). http://www.trader.ca/powerpage/details.aspx?vlotid=61584&adid=5487556
I know someone who has Merc C class 96 model with half a million kms (320k miles) on it but itseems that their quality went down after late nineties.
I think the E430 is a nice car except I hate those ovoid headlamps on mercs (I still think that rectangular headlamps suit benz a lot better) and seems like a nice car
I know its a 6 year old car (unless its 99 advertized as 00) and looks heavily used (even though it has only 65k miles) and doesnt look as nice as in the link/pics above but any ideas if I should look into these further or drop em? Part of me wants to stick it out for another 2 years but hey atleast I can get shopping started right..
Personally, I would pass on both cars. If that 00 E430 is really that trashed (and your first pic does appear to be a 2000 car), it's probably been abused in other ways. MB people who care tend to do a very good job at taking care of their cars. It could be a money pit. Those W210s are known to rust, too...so if I was in your area I would inspect the undercarriage very closely. And the C-class...that model is known to have some issues, esp electrical, and a base one would be pretty spartan. Probably not a lot of fun.
My belief with MB is get the best you can afford...the nicest one you can get will be more pleasurable than the cheapest, and a cheap Mercedes usually ends up being the most expensive. Be sure to look for maintenance records and physical signs the car has been cared for - good paint and interior.
If you wait another couple years the cars will be that much cheaper, they are still depreciating. Or you could look for an older (94-00) C or W124 E - pristine examples of each are cheap now.
Whoa, we didn't get that stripper C240 model here in the states. I think all of our C-class models of the last generation had alloy wheels and painted door handles.
I agree with fintail. You are going to have to be prepared to make repairs on any late-model MB, but these cars sound especially rough.
Thanks for the advice. Will keep looking. Shop just called and said that they need to keep my car for 4 more days as the part takes time to ship. That will be 1 week this thursday I'd be without a car.
Anyways, how's volvo reliability these days? I think V70/XC70/V50 may suit my needs better (doggie and kid on the way; trips to airports etc) than a sedan. I think V50 is just too narrow and based on mazda3(yuck). I can just buy 2 mazda3 for one v50. V70 is nice but expensive. However, it has an available rear facing third row seat (not available in v50) which when not in use, a cargo barrier can be set up. This will prevent loose cargo or even (gasp) our dog from slamming into the second row seat on hard braking. Lots of quality but not sure about reliability.
Throw passat wagon into this mix and things get interesting as it costs same as v50 I think? But VW and reliability are not synonymous according to what I gather.
I am not that interested in Subes but a forester or legacy outback may serve the purpose too. Although an outback's rear seat is not that roomy. Oh well...
One thing is for sure though.. I am more interested in Euro wagons than SUVs including the cute utes like CRV or RAV4. Minivan is just plain overkill and I am not going to be caught dead driving one :P
I'd take a Volvo over a VW, as far as reliability goes, but the VW would be more interesting to drive.
I'm driving my mom's S80 right now, and it has had a handful of minor problems but no major ones. The most recent ones I can remember are the blackout tape on the front doors being wrinkled and the turn signal stalk sticking. Yesterday, I broke the plastic tilt/telescoping wheel adjustment lever. It wouldn't lock into place in the last inch or two of the wheel's travel, so I pushed the lever a little harder and *snap*. I was eventually able to lock the wheel into place even with the busted lever, though. This will be its first out-of-warranty repair, so we'll see how that goes.
I like the S40/V50... Also, Subaru has an excellent history of reliability.
As far as a used Mercedes, I'd agree with fintail. Personally, I'd feel a lot more comfortable with an older E-class--'88 thru '95 say, when they still had the Inline 6 cyl. I almost bought one of those in the wagon version a couple of times.
A 2000+ bmw 5 series wagon (E-39) could be a good deal if you found a really nice one w/o high miles. They've depreciated greatly, & is usually considered one of the most reliable recent bmw models.
Volvos--I'd probably want one with lots of warranty. Some owners seem to have very good luck, & others dump them because of too many problems. Another way to go (cheaply) would be to buy a, I dunno, 4-6 y.o. one & save so much on the purchase that you could afford to do any repairs & maintenence. My ex bought a 2 y.o. 850 & ran it up to well over 100K with only a radiator & A/C repairs, altho she spent a lot on scheduled maintenence.
VW's--forget it, IMO.
You might want to consider service convenience when buying a Euro. vehicle--closeness to a dealer, or top-notch indie mechanic.....
Anyways, came across a 2000 merc E430 (I know its a gas hog 14 ltrs per 100km ) but hey its a merc for 16 grand CAD. These things were 60 grand new (canadian prices ofcourse). It looks used and a bit wretched and has 105k km (65k miles).
No new 2000 E430 sold for 60 grand. More like 80 G's.
But I agree with fintail - a trashed Merc is the last car you want at any price.
But they say it rides rough. My other concern is whether 2 adults and an infant car seat will fit in the back. Ofcourse its a what if situation that may not happen but once in a blue moon my folks will drop by and they wont be driving.
I am also intrigued by V70. Its wide, luxurious and has ton of cargo room. Rear facing seat is not required but is a nifty feature.
Do checkout this video review of V70 by "whatcar". Its spot on according what I heard so far. Narrator does mention that the running costs are on the higher side
No new 2000 E430 sold for 60 grand. More like 80 G's.
You are right. New 00 E320 was 67 large + tax (15% in ontario which amounts to 10 gs). So E430 would be heck of a lot more. However, in Canada you cant get away from paying tax on used cars even if they are sold private.
Only problem is that it has manual and traffic is brutal in Toronto. Besides, the missus hates driving as such. Manual is too much for her. BTW, how stiff is the suspension on these puppies? I am trying to get away from hard suspensions (I must be getting old talking about volvos and cushy suspensions :surprise: )
If you really want a MB, you should have a few things prepared....first, how much you want to spend. Then, how much you are comfortable on spending on maintenance (major services are pricey), it's a good idea to have a couple grand socked away for emergency repairs too. Then you'd need to commit to maintaining and caring for the car as it needs...you sound like someone who would do so anyway, but many do not...and although a MB can soldier on a long time without maintenance, they do eventually fail, and when they break, they break big. Knowing a good independent mechanic is very important too...I advise against taking an out of warranty MB to the stealership for repairs.
I am glad to see someone wanting a wagon over a cute ute (I don't mind those sporty Volvos either) - esp seeing as the cute utes are just wagons for people who can't handle driving a "wagon" anyway. There are also some deals on older E and even C wagons out there, should you still want a MB. Every E wagon has been a pretty good design. And speaking of those, there were a handful of E55 wagons made in the recent past...that might be an interesting used car in a few years.
They make it in an auto version but it is not as fun to drive and is a 5 speed not a 6 speed.
The suspension is adaptive and has three settings comfort, sport and advanced.
Comfort is only slightly firmer then a regular V70 or S60, sport is a good bit siffer but was not uncomfortable to me. Advanced is very stiff and can be a bit painful over rough roads.
Picked up my deceased FIL's car yesterday .. when he passed in January, my SIL took it with the intention of learning to drive. She never followed through, so now the wife and I have it with the intention of selling it.
1992 Subaru Legacy L AWD wagon. Purple - wife calls in the 'Barney car" with a 5-speed, power everything, cruise, A/C, AM/FM/Cassette stereo. No airbags - the shoulder belt is motorized and there is a separate lap belt. Not sure if it has ABS. Odometer clicked over 139K on the 25 mile drive home.
Tested most of the features on the drive home:
* A/C blows cold * Stereo and cruise work * Power windows work * Newer tires (185/70-14) * Oil was changed last October at 137K, according to the sticker in the window
* Power locks work - sort of. Cannot lock drivers door with key. It just spins around in the keyhole. * One of the two tailpipes was amputated at the muffler, which results in a loud exhaust leak type of racket - kind of a "fast 'n' furious" type noise, except way more annoying * Dent in the right front quarter panel, right at the top of the wheel well
Hope to get the title transferred today - it may require an emissions test, which would probably mean that the tailpipe will need to be repaired. One step at a time.
Wife wanted to know how it drove. Well, it drove like a 14 year old car. If the tailpipe issue was fixed, not sure how quiet it would be and if it would make a good beater.
Currently, we're thinking of doing as little as possible to it and sell it for $2000-2500. Or, I could keep it and sell the L300, saving the monthly payment for a while and see if it could be nursed along for a year or so.
I got interested in MB starting from late eighties. I still consider late eighties to early nineties has the hey day of MB's design. The thickness of steel and the solid thunk of doors, right colors, straight lines, right amount of resistance in door handles, signal stalks etc.. You still see old MBs marching on in various parts of the world.
As far as cute utes go, I dont like the shape of 4x4 a whole lot with the high roof and its not very dog friendly. My canine child loves to watch out the window. She'd be miserable otherwise.
Also, once we make an addition of an infant to our family, safety becomes an issue and cargo barrier (which you cant get in an SUV) in a wagon sounds like a good idea with 80 lbs dog and/or potential heavy loose objects hangin about. Okay I am sounding paranoid I'll stop.
As a side note, with kids down the road, you have to wonder if the belt line is low enough for their visiblity but safe enough in case of side impact crashes.
Besides, the advantage of fuel economy, driveability and nice interiors are all pluses in my mind. Now if I can find a 3 year old Merc/Volvo wagons with dark dash/beige leather, that'd be cool :shades:
Anony and Gee...... my niece and her husband just bought my friends 1994 Lexus LS400 with 55,000 original miles for $7,500. Very clean car, beige leather, light gold exterior..... very nice shape (one small scuff on the rear bumper).
I felt that they paid a very good price and I thought of you two with your 'spider condo'. :P I can't remember how much you sold yours for and I think you had 130,000 miles on it, right?
Mark
2010 Land Rover LR4, 2013 Honda CR-V, 2009 Bentley GTC, 1990 MB 500SL, 2001 MB S500, 2007 Lincoln TC, 1964 RR Silver Cloud III, 1995 MB E320 Cab., 2015 Prevost Liberty Coach
Growwise, I have a 2000 E430 sport (Brilliant Silver, Ash Leather)that has just under 35,000 miles. It has been a wonderful car with very little problems. Under warranty, Mercedes put on two new sunvisors (vanity flaps broke off)and a malfunctioning fog lamp. In the last two years, I have replaced the two rear window motor regulators (typical Mercedes). Other than that, the 'almost' seven years that I have owned it has been very pleasant.
They say if you never used the windows, the regulators are more likely to go out. That might be the case for me as I rarely lower the rear windows. Same thing happened on my 1991 560SEL, both rear regulators went out.
Just for reference, starting with the 2000 model year, the "E Class" received many updates that included restyled front and rear bumpers with restyled rear lamps and restyled trunk lid. Also, the front hood was lowered about an 1.5 inches for better aerodynamics. Turning signals were added on the side view mirrors, button controls on the steering wheel, instrument cluster computer that will measure oil level, etc.
Mark156
2010 Land Rover LR4, 2013 Honda CR-V, 2009 Bentley GTC, 1990 MB 500SL, 2001 MB S500, 2007 Lincoln TC, 1964 RR Silver Cloud III, 1995 MB E320 Cab., 2015 Prevost Liberty Coach
I just git a 2006 volvo s40 and am wondering what the real scoop is on Volvo reliabilty. I hear some people on here tell stories that span the spectrum from great to bad, that sounds alot like 98 percent of the brands out there. Is the average repair super expensive? The reputation that led me to Volvo was one of safety and reliability, this is evident by the big numbers of 15 to 20 year old Volvos on the road. I imagine like any car if the scheduled maint. is done and the car is respected and taken care of there should'nt be too many huge problems. The only cars I can think of that seem to be bulletproof are hondas and lexus. some posts on here make it seem like each repair may cost 3000 grand each time, come on! I understand that scheduled maint. can be pricey but I deem it worth it. My car with 3000 miles has had zero probs. So, if any you guys can shed a little extra light on this for me and /or help comfort me that I didn't just fall into a money pit instead of a realy nice car. ...please do.
Well, you are covered by the factory warranty for 4 years or 50,000 miles. My mother has owned three Volvos over the past 17 years. The reliability of one went down at the five year mark and the other went down at the seven year mark. Both had about 85,000 miles on them at the time, and both were traded in on a new Volvo. Overall, repairs were more frequent and costly than a Japanese brand vehicle, but less frequent and costly than, say, a Volkswagen.
The major problems on the European cars tend to be electrical. I've also seen interior/exterior trim issues on Mom's most recent Volvo, an S80. If you have a turbo engine, you need to use synthetic oil. You probably want to have the tires rotated at every 7,500 mile service, but it's not included on the factory service schedule. Those are the only things I can think of offhand.
"Throw passat wagon into this mix and things get interesting as it costs same as v50 I think? But VW and reliability are not synonymous according to what I gather."
I have a more temperate assessment of VW. I had a 1999 Passat for six years. It was the 4 cylinder turbo. I got the VW extended warranty for $1100 a year after I bought the car. My only repair gripe was frequency and cost of brakes and rotors while I was having car serviced at the dealer. After I found a local German auto repair shop, both frequency (of being told brakes and rotors had to be replaced) and cost of doing so (when really needed) went way down.
No other chronic problems. Virtually all repairs, after meager 1999 24K warranty ran out, were taken care of (even at independent repair shop) by VW warranty (which took car out to 7 years and 100K miles).
Also, think of CR and JD Powers ratings this way (using recent JDP report, on three-year reliability of 2004 cars, as an example): VWs averaged 3 problems per car over three years. MB averaged 2.5 per car. BMW averaged 2 per car. Would it really make a significant ownership experience difference to have made 2 trips for service, rather than three, over three years?
This discussion reminds me why I chose the Japanese route most recently. I have had 3 Audis and am most recently coming off a BMW, and it is a nice relief to not even think about this stuff anymore. Anytime a window was slow to go down, I'd think about sticking cash to it as it went in the door to see if that would prevent a failure. Or the Audi I had where the high beams would come on when I put on my right turn signal. That was funny. The constant climate control failures were not. Ask me sometime about the factory Audi tour I took in Ingolstadt where the nice tour guide explained the amount of beer consumption that was allowed on the assembly line ! :surprise:
That said, if I were to go for a Mercedes, I'd look for the best W124 out there and cherish it for life. Especially a wagon. I think this was the last great Mercedes, and really good ones are getting harder to find. Only downside I see is that they are from the pre-side airbag era. A good E39 5er would be a decent car, but a lot of them are coming off of second or even third owners, which is where things get dicey. A E46 3 is a nice car, and there are some good ones out there; my FIL has a 00 323i that has been dead reliable and is still a really nice drive.
And to be fair, Euro is not all bad. My Audi avant was rear ended by a Mazda once, and while the rear bumper cover had a gap from the tailgate and some scrathches, the front of the mazda was flat gone. As in it ceased to be. And this was a 25mph accident...
My experience has been that some of the angriest owners are Japanese car buyers who either: (a) fail to notice that, while compiling lower repair rates, even Lexus cars are never reported by CR or JDP to be trouble free; and/or (2) imagine they are buying a magically perfect car because Toyota (recent recall was one of largest in automotive history) has figured out how to eliminate manufacturing defects; and/or (3) haven't heard about serious problems such as Toyota's many complaints about sludge collecting in oil pan (while that will be reported as one problem on CR or JDP survey -- while the German car window and headlight will count as two -- although it will threaten the owner with a ruined engine for which Toyota has historically failed to take responsibility).
Take a quick look at vaunted Acura TL on CR. Notice that little black dot next to body integrity? It's a widespread rattle that the company cannot repair.
When you buy a car because you assume you'll have no problems, there will be a big emotional price to pay if you do (and majority of owners will have some problem with a new car in the first three years, according to CR and JDP). The angriest owners I've known have been Japanese car owners who did have a dud, or, as you allude to, who were hurt in an accident and then noticed their car hadn't won any safety awards. In fact, of the 10 cars that won a Gold or Silver Safety Award from The Insurance Institute for Highway Safety, only the Subaru Legacy and the Honda Civic were Japanese. The other 8 were European. Five of those 8 were made by VW-Audi company (3 Audi and 2 VW). If, instead of buying the car I most liked from among those I could afford, I was going to pick one from a statistical chart, I'd go with a safety award chart rather than a chart that is doing nothing other than trying to predict which car I'll be happy I bought after three years (when one real predictor right at hand is "wow, I really I enjoy driving and being in this car!").
There is no salvation from the fact that cars are mass-produced machines with increasingly better, but imperfect, quality control. The one thing the buyer can control is not being pushed by CR or JDP statistics into buying a car that is not the one they most liked when they drove all the ones on their buying radar screen.
I got the VW extended warranty for $1100 a year after I bought the car.
Are you really paying $1100/year for an extended warranty , and it does not even cover brakes.I think on the domestics are alot less than that.
I agree with you in that the surveys for JDP & CR are flawed to some degree , but they are the best information on reliability that we have right now.
All cars are a trade off, if you want the latest safety features and all the luxury options you need to be prepared to pay for them when they go bad. The more stuff on a car the more likelyhood of it breaking. Especially ob the European brand where they are usually the leader in new technology.
I sat in a Dodge Caliber the other day that had roll down windows.I have not been in a car made in the last 10 years(not including trucks) that had cranks.Easier to repair, but I don't think I could live with them because when I put down the windows , I put them all down.
One of our techs recently quit and started working for an Acura dealership. I was talking to him a week or so after he started at the acura dealership and he was telling me about the transmissions on the early MDXs and many TLs. Apprently nearly all of them fail within a certain time period just outside of the normal factory warranty. Acura has quietly extended the warranty on just those transmissions out to 100,000 miles or so is what I remember him saying.
You always have to take those reliablity surveys with a grain of salt as they all weight a blown engine the same as a faulty vanity mirror light. They are both just a reported problem.
Toyota's many complaints about sludge collecting in oil pan (while that will be reported as one problem on CR or JDP survey -- while the German car window and headlight will count as two -- although it will threaten the owner with a ruined engine for which Toyota has historically failed to take responsibility.
For what it's worth, I previously owned 2 of those Toyotas supposedly subject to sludge, (2) 2000 Camry 4 cyls. Toyota sent us a letter on both cars, giving us a much longer engine warranty, (I forget now how long of an extension exactly, but 100,000 miles seems to come to mind), only requiring proof of ONE oil change per year as proof of required maintenance. I would say that this does not indicate a manufacturer who: in your words, "has historicaly failed to take responsibility".
With that said, I somewhat agree with your comment about the sludge counting as one item, and a window and headlight counting as 2. I believe that CR states that they weigh engine/driveline problems heaver than trim type items when giving the car an overall reliability rating. It does take careful evaluation of the statistics when using them to determine what they realy say.
Taking into account that I have bought several Toyotas in the last several years, I buy cars that I enjoy driving. When younger, I prefered hard riding, great handling cars, didn't care how loud it was. Now, give me a quiet car, that doesn't punish me on the rougher roads, gets good mileage, good resale value, and reasonable reliability, and I have my perfect car. That's why I have bought mostly Toyoas recently. I keep testing Hondas when I am ready to buy, yet they are almost always noisier than the comparable Toyota model. Personal preference. I like the current VW lineup ALOT, but the problem posts here and other places, and the CR and JDP stats just won't let me take a chance. I value my time too much to be taking the car to the dealer (and having them tell me "could not duplicate" because the problem is intermittent)
I might appreciate a little better handling (perhaps just a notch fimer shocks) on my Camry Hybrid, but not at the expense of a louder interior on the highway.
I do read CR and JDP, and have found that in most cases, the cars that are rated highly, seem to be good bets from my criteria.
I'm glad to learn Toyota finally did take responsibility. Many complaining owners paved the way for your treatment and were not imemdiately handled as you were.
Why does that sort of problem, even if Toyota extends your warranty, not count as being bothered with a problem?
The other issues -- softer ride, etc -- are personal preferenecs and beyond debate/discussion, in my view. It's the "buy Japanese and you're guaranteed to be out of the repair-problem game" that I was questioning.
Why does that sort of problem, even if Toyota extends your warranty, not count as being bothered with a problem?
It DOES count as a problem, if you have it. I changed my oil at 5,000 miles, and never experienced sludge. One of my Camrys is now owned by a friend, and with over 80,000 miles, has been trouble free. (How many people will sell a used car to a friend, and remain friends?)
And, you're right, it shouldn't take many complaining customers to get the manufacturer to act on an issue. I wasn't treated any differently than the millions of other owners of the subject vehicles. We ALL got the same letter of extended warranty.
It's the "buy Japanese and you're guaranteed to be out of the repair-problem game" that I was questioning.
I agree, buying Japanese deoesn't guarantee one to be out of the repair-problem game, just lessens the probability, compared to (unfortunately) US or European built makes. I used to buy only US cars (even worked for a US auto dealer for many years). It is a real shame we (US) can't learn from our alliances with the Japanese (Toyota-Chevy Corolla/Nova/Prism) (Toyota-Pontiac Matrix/Vibe) WHY can't we figure out after all these years of partnerships just how the Japanese do it?????
Volvos tend to have trouble with small things but their overall reliability is excellent. Reliability studies tend to ignore the types of things that go wrong. In my experience, Toyota and Honda's have plenty of things that go wrong. I know someone with a new 2006 Toyota whose automatic window motor blew. But mile after mile, they still keep on trucking. So getting back to your volvo, I wouldn't get worried about being stranded on the side of the road. You can probably put 200,000 miles on it no problem. I think the longest (based on milage) currently running vehicle is a volvo.
I topped out in the low 90s at the Shenandoah circuit at Summit Point for my first track weekend. It was my own car, though - a '92 Miata that sort of fell into my lap. It was more fun than a barrel of monkeys, and changed my opinion of Miatas forever.
Miatas. Are. Not. Chick. Cars.
If you disagree, strap into the passenger seat of a Spec Miata on a twisty road course like Shenandoah. Hoo, boy. Just don't do it right after lunch.
Yeah... I've always thought if I took up a hobby, that would be it...
But, time/money dictate otherwise.. It was pretty cool to do it once.. of course, it was a 1.5 mile tri-oval, so not much real driving skill involved. Just a willingness to go a lot faster than your brain is telling you is safe.. :surprise:
I think Volvos were very reliable; I have a few family members that drove 240's for a long time with little trouble. The newer ones, 850's and on, are not the same, in my opinion. Go look at a site like carreview dot com and look up s70's and v70's; it is not pretty. Which is too bad because I like the v70, but Volvo could not compete with basic sturdy cars in a market and time where people expect their cars to have power and electric everything. So they changed and concentrated on the features instead of the basics. As cars get more complex, they will all have problems; there is a reason the aircraft industry went away from big complex wiring looms to fiber optics, y'know...
Automatics are just Miatas begging for a 5-speed swap and a roll bar.
It's not the poor Miata's fault that someone ruined a perfectly good track car with a slushbox. Kind of like a Jack Russell Terrier wearing a pink knitted sweater. Dog's still tough, but the owner has completely missed the point.
The weekend was $300, included 8 track sessions (which is about all I could physically handle), one instructor for every two students, and plenty of classroom instruction. You can spend as much money as you want racing, but if you can resist the siren song of the horsepower fairy you can have a lot of fun with a cheap low horsepower car. This event had everything from a nasty old 4 door Omni (seriously! And it was fast!) at the low end to an '07 Z06 'Vette, Lotus Exige, Subaru STi, etc. And Miatas all over the place.
Back to the thread subject, I now have a bit of a dilemma. I'd planned on driving the Miata for a few months, do a track day or two, then sell it. But we've sort of... bonded, I guess. 4 cars is probably not doable long term, since I'm the sole driver on three of them. The 2004 MPV stays, the truck is needed for hauling / daily driving, the Miata is a wonderful track toy... That leaves the Alfa. I've put too much blood / sweat / tears into that car to cut it loose, but it doesn't get driven much these days, and it's a constant maintenance hog. Sigh... If I could morph the Miata and pickup into a combination track toy / stuff hauler that might work...
The Miata makes your Spyder redundant if you can also drive the Miata on the street. The only thing you are giving up is the sexy Italian exclusiveness.
I sold my Fiat Spyder to a friend of mine and it has been sitting in his garage for the past 15 years. Every time I see it I hear my name being called. I don't miss hunting down the parts though.
I would have bought my dad 96 Miata a couple of years ago if I had fit in it. No way 6'6" is going to fit in one. I drove it several times though with my knees banging the steering wheel. Definately a blast for a car with only 130 hp.
I think we are, partly, clearing up (to each other) what we each mean to say and, partly, disagreeing.
I followed the Toyota-sludge mess for a while, as I am now follow the Toyota recall. It was real. Many Toyota dealers did initially claim put customers off with denials. Eventually, they handled it as you described. I know that Toyota owners who initially got the brush-off were just as soured as you were by a German car dealer's "we can't replicate the problem."
"I used to buy only US cars (even worked for a US auto dealer for many years). It is a real shame we (US) can't learn from our alliances with the Japanese (Toyota-Chevy Corolla/Nova/Prism) (Toyota-Pontiac Matrix/Vibe) WHY can't we figure out after all these years of partnerships just how the Japanese do it?????"
In the August report of long term vehicle dependability from JD Powers, Mercury, Buick and Cadillac all scored better than Toyota.
"I agree, buying Japanese doesn't guarantee one to be out of the repair-problem game, just lessens the probability, compared to (unfortunately) US or European built makes"
But my main point is "how much does it lessen the probability?" I'm suggesting that it doesn't lessen it as much as people have been led to think. Or, to be more precise, you and I don't get the data that would allow us to know.
What we get are rank order lists. We can't tell if the difference between "179 problems per 100 vehicles" and "212 problems per 100 vehicles," for example, is statistically significant, that is, if one can say, on the basis of those numbers that one should (in any meaningful, real-life, put-your-money-on-it way) expect to have less trouble, when you buy a Toyota, than the guy next door who buys a BMW at the same time.
"Would I sell a European car, with 80K miles on it, to a friend?"
I passed along, to my son, a 1999 Passat with a little over 80K miles. He drove it out to 107,000 miles. Other than (the car's only) timing chain replacement (scheduled maintenance) and some work on transmission and ignition coils (paid for by VW extended warranty) at 99K, there was nothing. The car never broke down or put him in danger due to any malfunction. I have friends who have had to do similar work on Toyotas around 100K, but this is all anecdotal and doesn't prove anything, one way or the other. as with my used-Toyota friends, to extent of annoyance at having these repairs done on a car near 100K partly depends on how it gets dealt with. Some VW owners have complained that the ignition coils have been replaced a couple of times. I happen to have an independent German auto repair specialist who recognized that the master unit which feeds the 4 coils was shorting them out and would keep doing that. With a phone call from me to the VW warranty people, they saw the light and replaced all four coils and the master unit too. Trouble free for remaining 8K+ miles. Again, this, anecdotally, is similar to what I've heard from used Toyota owners at 100K.
I also sold a Ford Explorer with 70K on it to a friend. We did all the stuff one does. I showed him all the service records from when I bought the car and he had a mechanic check it out and we agreed that there was no way to know, beyond what was known about the car at the moment, what would happen, but that, if he drove it out to 100K probably some repairs would be needed and it wouldn't prove the car was a lemon.
I like the theory of JD Powers and other quality surveys. However, in practice, they are often inaccurate.
Look at their ratings for other products or services such as investments, cell phones, and cell phone service, and see how that compares with your own experience.
I also take issue with their two-to-five dot rating system. Why the extra dot? It makes the worst products seem better than they are. It should be one to five dots (or stars), like Amazon.
You don't have to convince me... I'm sure I'd love it..
Anyway.... today, when dropping off my son at school, I drive past the same early '90s MR-2 that is parked a few doors away...
But, today.. it has a FOR SALE sign on it!! I don't know anything specific about this particular car, but what I do like about it... It has T-Tops, it is white, and still has the stock wheels.. That tells me it is pretty much unmolested.. Of course, once I stop to look at it, I'll probably discover that it is an automatic..
I wonder what that would go for.. in good shape? I'm assuming that is an NA model... if its a turbo, I know it is out of my budget for a third car..
There is no car quite like it. Keep it and buy the MR2 for a hobby car! You know you want to....
:-)
I'm on the hunt for the perfect '84-86 Supra again. Which would be a third car and cause me a headache parking at night. But I feel the pull, first "fast" car I ever had in my youth. Finding cars that old that are still stock (the way I like 'em) is so hard. People mostly either let their cars go to pot or replace stuff with any old thing from the parts store. I see one every day when I drive to work - it is about a mile up the street from me. It looks perfect from the drive-by, a white '85 with no obvious body damage. I always long to see the "For Sale" sign in the wondow....but alas....
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Oh yeah... I sold the Legend back to my uncle.... All it did was sit in his garage, anyway... He bought a Highlander Hybrid for his wife, and she couldn't adjust to the engine not running when she turned the key..
So, I told him she could drive the Legend... and, that was that... she doesn't want anything else.
I bought it mostly for sentimental value.. It was my aunt's car.. she bought it new in 1992 (upon my recommendation). I was really close to her, and she loved that car..
But, anyway... it is getting a lot more use now.. I think it might have 41K miles now.. :surprise:
And also... I'm always thinking about buying another car..
Comments
http://www.trader.ca/powerpage/details.aspx?vlotid=61584&adid=5487556
I know someone who has Merc C class 96 model with half a million kms (320k miles) on it but itseems that their quality went down after late nineties.
Given the details, is it a good buy? I also saw an 03 base stripper c240 with 26k km (17k miles) there for 22 gs cdn (they were 35 grand new for base but it looks bare and cant seat more than 2 at the back. More so, when I turned the key on it said "1 malfunction" on dash. Salesman turned the key off/on and it went away.. sounds fishy to me.
http://www.trader.ca/powerpage/details.aspx?vlotid=61584&adid=5198712
http://www.torontonetrealty.com/CFM/detail.php?id=3
I think the E430 is a nice car except I hate those ovoid headlamps on mercs (I still think that rectangular headlamps suit benz a lot better) and seems like a nice car
http://www.mercedesshop.com/e430.htm
I looked it up and saw one bad review on the net
http://www.epinions.com/content_168098565764
I know its a 6 year old car (unless its 99 advertized as 00) and looks heavily used (even though it has only 65k miles) and doesnt look as nice as in the link/pics above but any ideas if I should look into these further or drop em? Part of me wants to stick it out for another 2 years but hey atleast I can get shopping started right..
My belief with MB is get the best you can afford...the nicest one you can get will be more pleasurable than the cheapest, and a cheap Mercedes usually ends up being the most expensive. Be sure to look for maintenance records and physical signs the car has been cared for - good paint and interior.
If you wait another couple years the cars will be that much cheaper, they are still depreciating. Or you could look for an older (94-00) C or W124 E - pristine examples of each are cheap now.
I agree with fintail. You are going to have to be prepared to make repairs on any late-model MB, but these cars sound especially rough.
Anyways, how's volvo reliability these days? I think V70/XC70/V50 may suit my needs better (doggie and kid on the way; trips to airports etc) than a sedan. I think V50 is just too narrow and based on mazda3(yuck). I can just buy 2 mazda3 for one v50. V70 is nice but expensive. However, it has an available rear facing third row seat (not available in v50) which when not in use, a cargo barrier can be set up. This will prevent loose cargo or even (gasp) our dog from slamming into the second row seat on hard braking. Lots of quality but not sure about reliability.
Throw passat wagon into this mix and things get interesting as it costs same as v50 I think? But VW and reliability are not synonymous according to what I gather.
I am not that interested in Subes but a forester or legacy outback may serve the purpose too. Although an outback's rear seat is not that roomy. Oh well...
One thing is for sure though.. I am more interested in Euro wagons than SUVs including the cute utes like CRV or RAV4. Minivan is just plain overkill and I am not going to be caught dead driving one :P
I'm driving my mom's S80 right now, and it has had a handful of minor problems but no major ones. The most recent ones I can remember are the blackout tape on the front doors being wrinkled and the turn signal stalk sticking. Yesterday, I broke the plastic tilt/telescoping wheel adjustment lever. It wouldn't lock into place in the last inch or two of the wheel's travel, so I pushed the lever a little harder and *snap*. I was eventually able to lock the wheel into place even with the busted lever, though. This will be its first out-of-warranty repair, so we'll see how that goes.
I like the S40/V50... Also, Subaru has an excellent history of reliability.
A 2000+ bmw 5 series wagon (E-39) could be a good deal if you found a really nice one w/o high miles. They've depreciated greatly, & is usually considered one of the most reliable recent bmw models.
Volvos--I'd probably want one with lots of warranty. Some owners seem to have very good luck, & others dump them because of too many problems. Another way to go (cheaply) would be to buy a, I dunno, 4-6 y.o. one & save so much on the purchase that you could afford to do any repairs & maintenence. My ex bought a 2 y.o. 850 & ran it up to well over 100K with only a radiator & A/C repairs, altho she spent a lot on scheduled maintenence.
VW's--forget it, IMO.
You might want to consider service convenience when buying a Euro. vehicle--closeness to a dealer, or top-notch indie mechanic.....
No new 2000 E430 sold for 60 grand. More like 80 G's.
But I agree with fintail - a trashed Merc is the last car you want at any price.
yeah.. sure looks sharp dunnit?
But they say it rides rough. My other concern is whether 2 adults and an infant car seat will fit in the back. Ofcourse its a what if situation that may not happen but once in a blue moon my folks will drop by and they wont be driving.
I am also intrigued by V70. Its wide, luxurious and has ton of cargo room. Rear facing seat is not required but is a nifty feature.
Do checkout this video review of V70 by "whatcar". Its spot on according what I heard so far. Narrator does mention that the running costs are on the higher side
http://www.whatcar.com/car-review-video.aspx?RT=137&P=WM&SP=FAST
300 horsepower Turbo 5 cylinder, three suspenision settings, and the fastest grocery getter around.
You are right. New 00 E320 was 67 large + tax (15% in ontario which amounts to 10 gs). So E430 would be heck of a lot more. However, in Canada you cant get away from paying tax on used cars even if they are sold private.
I am glad to see someone wanting a wagon over a cute ute (I don't mind those sporty Volvos either) - esp seeing as the cute utes are just wagons for people who can't handle driving a "wagon" anyway. There are also some deals on older E and even C wagons out there, should you still want a MB. Every E wagon has been a pretty good design. And speaking of those, there were a handful of E55 wagons made in the recent past...that might be an interesting used car in a few years.
the suspension is adjustable. You have, I believe, 3 settings. The softest being for cruising and the hardest being for track.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
The suspension is adaptive and has three settings comfort, sport and advanced.
Comfort is only slightly firmer then a regular V70 or S60, sport is a good bit siffer but was not uncomfortable to me. Advanced is very stiff and can be a bit painful over rough roads.
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Track car at a racing oval?
1992 Subaru Legacy L AWD wagon. Purple - wife calls in the 'Barney car" with a 5-speed, power everything, cruise, A/C, AM/FM/Cassette stereo. No airbags - the shoulder belt is motorized and there is a separate lap belt. Not sure if it has ABS. Odometer clicked over 139K on the 25 mile drive home.
Tested most of the features on the drive home:
* A/C blows cold
* Stereo and cruise work
* Power windows work
* Newer tires (185/70-14)
* Oil was changed last October at 137K, according to the sticker in the window
* Power locks work - sort of. Cannot lock drivers door with key. It just spins around in the keyhole.
* One of the two tailpipes was amputated at the muffler, which results in a loud exhaust leak type of racket - kind of a "fast 'n' furious" type noise, except way more annoying
* Dent in the right front quarter panel, right at the top of the wheel well
Hope to get the title transferred today - it may require an emissions test, which would probably mean that the tailpipe will need to be repaired. One step at a time.
Wife wanted to know how it drove. Well, it drove like a 14 year old car. If the tailpipe issue was fixed, not sure how quiet it would be and if it would make a good beater.
Currently, we're thinking of doing as little as possible to it and sell it for $2000-2500. Or, I could keep it and sell the L300, saving the monthly payment for a while and see if it could be nursed along for a year or so.
Jeff Gordon Racing School... it was a real adrenaline rush..
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Pity though. Passat wagon is good looking and is less pricey than say Saab9-5 or V70.
Its surprising how MB/VW/Volvo/Saab cars can be high on quality, rich in heritage but low on reliability.
As far as cute utes go, I dont like the shape of 4x4 a whole lot with the high roof and its not very dog friendly. My canine child loves to watch out the window.
Also, once we make an addition of an infant to our family, safety becomes an issue and cargo barrier (which you cant get in an SUV) in a wagon sounds like a good idea with 80 lbs dog and/or potential heavy loose objects hangin about. Okay I am sounding paranoid I'll stop.
As a side note, with kids down the road, you have to wonder if the belt line is low enough for their visiblity but safe enough in case of side impact crashes.
Besides, the advantage of fuel economy, driveability and nice interiors are all pluses in my mind. Now if I can find a 3 year old Merc/Volvo wagons with dark dash/beige leather, that'd be cool :shades:
http://www.whatcar.com/car-review-video.aspx?RT=137&P=WM&SP=FAST
Check out the interior in above. Tell me if you can get it in a cute ute (I'd be interested).
I felt that they paid a very good price and I thought of you two with your 'spider condo'. :P I can't remember how much you sold yours for and I think you had 130,000 miles on it, right?
Mark
They say if you never used the windows, the regulators are more likely to go out. That might be the case for me as I rarely lower the rear windows. Same thing happened on my 1991 560SEL, both rear regulators went out.
Just for reference, starting with the 2000 model year, the "E Class" received many updates that included restyled front and rear bumpers with restyled rear lamps and restyled trunk lid. Also, the front hood was lowered about an 1.5 inches for better aerodynamics. Turning signals were added on the side view mirrors, button controls on the steering wheel, instrument cluster computer that will measure oil level, etc.
Mark156
I just git a 2006 volvo s40 and am wondering what the real scoop is on Volvo reliabilty. I hear some people on here tell stories that span the spectrum from great to bad, that sounds alot like 98 percent of the brands out there. Is the average repair super expensive? The reputation that led me to Volvo was one of safety and reliability, this is evident by the big numbers of 15 to 20 year old Volvos on the road.
I imagine like any car if the scheduled maint. is done and the car is respected and taken care of there should'nt be too many huge problems. The only cars I can think of that seem to be bulletproof are hondas and lexus. some posts on here make it seem like each repair may cost 3000 grand each time, come on!
I understand that scheduled maint. can be pricey but I deem it worth it. My car with 3000 miles has had zero probs.
So, if any you guys can shed a little extra light on this for me and /or help comfort me that I didn't just fall into a money pit instead of a realy nice car. ...please do.
The major problems on the European cars tend to be electrical. I've also seen interior/exterior trim issues on Mom's most recent Volvo, an S80. If you have a turbo engine, you need to use synthetic oil. You probably want to have the tires rotated at every 7,500 mile service, but it's not included on the factory service schedule. Those are the only things I can think of offhand.
I have a more temperate assessment of VW. I had a 1999 Passat for six years. It was the 4 cylinder turbo. I got the VW extended warranty for $1100 a year after I bought the car. My only repair gripe was frequency and cost of brakes and rotors while I was having car serviced at the dealer. After I found a local German auto repair shop, both frequency (of being told brakes and rotors had to be replaced) and cost of doing so (when really needed) went way down.
No other chronic problems. Virtually all repairs, after meager 1999 24K warranty ran out, were taken care of (even at independent repair shop) by VW warranty (which took car out to 7 years and 100K miles).
Also, think of CR and JD Powers ratings this way (using recent JDP report, on three-year reliability of 2004 cars, as an example): VWs averaged 3 problems per car over three years. MB averaged 2.5 per car. BMW averaged 2 per car. Would it really make a significant ownership experience difference to have made 2 trips for service, rather than three, over three years?
Just one take on things.
recently coming off a BMW, and it is a nice relief to not even think about this stuff anymore. Anytime a window was slow to go down, I'd think about sticking cash to it as it went in the door to see if that would prevent a failure. Or the Audi I had where the high beams would come on when I put on my right turn signal. That was funny. The constant climate control failures were not. Ask me sometime about the factory Audi tour I took in Ingolstadt where the nice tour guide explained the amount of beer consumption that was allowed on the assembly line ! :surprise:
That said, if I were to go for a Mercedes, I'd look for the best W124 out there and cherish it for life. Especially a wagon. I think this was the last great Mercedes, and really good ones are getting harder to find. Only downside I see is that they are from the pre-side airbag era. A good E39 5er would be a decent car, but a lot of them are coming off of second or even third owners, which is where things get dicey. A E46 3 is a nice car, and there are some good ones out there; my FIL has a 00 323i that has been dead reliable and is still a really nice drive.
And to be fair, Euro is not all bad. My Audi avant was rear ended by a Mazda once, and while the rear bumper cover had a gap from the tailgate and some scrathches, the front of the mazda was flat gone. As in it ceased to be. And this was a 25mph accident...
25 NX 450h+ / 24 Sienna Plat AWD / 23 Civic Type-R / 21 Boxster GTS 4.0 / 03 Montero Ltd
Huh!!
You don't pay GST on private sales.
Take a quick look at vaunted Acura TL on CR. Notice that little black dot next to body integrity? It's a widespread rattle that the company cannot repair.
When you buy a car because you assume you'll have no problems, there will be a big emotional price to pay if you do (and majority of owners will have some problem with a new car in the first three years, according to CR and JDP). The angriest owners I've known have been Japanese car owners who did have a dud, or, as you allude to, who were hurt in an accident and then noticed their car hadn't won any safety awards. In fact, of the 10 cars that won a Gold or Silver Safety Award from The Insurance Institute for Highway Safety, only the Subaru Legacy and the Honda Civic were Japanese. The other 8 were European. Five of those 8 were made by VW-Audi company (3 Audi and 2 VW). If, instead of buying the car I most liked from among those I could afford, I was going to pick one from a statistical chart, I'd go with a safety award chart rather than a chart that is doing nothing other than trying to predict which car I'll be happy I bought after three years (when one real predictor right at hand is "wow, I really I enjoy driving and being in this car!").
There is no salvation from the fact that cars are mass-produced machines with increasingly better, but imperfect, quality control. The one thing the buyer can control is not being pushed by CR or JDP statistics into buying a car that is not the one they most liked when they drove all the ones on their buying radar screen.
Are you really paying $1100/year for an extended warranty , and it does not even cover brakes.I think on the domestics are alot less than that.
I agree with you in that the surveys for JDP & CR are flawed to some degree , but they are the best information on reliability that we have right now.
All cars are a trade off, if you want the latest safety features and all the luxury options you need to be prepared to pay for them when they go bad. The more stuff on a car the more likelyhood of it breaking. Especially ob the European brand where they are usually the leader in new technology.
I sat in a Dodge Caliber the other day that had roll down windows.I have not been in a car made in the last 10 years(not including trucks) that had cranks.Easier to repair, but I don't think I could live with them because when I put down the windows , I put them all down.
You always have to take those reliablity surveys with a grain of salt as they all weight a blown engine the same as a faulty vanity mirror light. They are both just a reported problem.
For what it's worth, I previously owned 2 of those Toyotas supposedly subject to sludge, (2) 2000 Camry 4 cyls. Toyota sent us a letter on both cars, giving us a much longer engine warranty, (I forget now how long of an extension exactly, but 100,000 miles seems to come to mind), only requiring proof of ONE oil change per year as proof of required maintenance. I would say that this does not indicate a manufacturer who: in your words, "has historicaly failed to take responsibility".
With that said, I somewhat agree with your comment about the sludge counting as one item, and a window and headlight counting as 2. I believe that CR states that they weigh engine/driveline problems heaver than trim type items when giving the car an overall reliability rating. It does take careful evaluation of the statistics when using them to determine what they realy say.
Taking into account that I have bought several Toyotas in the last several years, I buy cars that I enjoy driving. When younger, I prefered hard riding, great handling cars, didn't care how loud it was. Now, give me a quiet car, that doesn't punish me on the rougher roads, gets good mileage, good resale value, and reasonable reliability, and I have my perfect car. That's why I have bought mostly Toyoas recently. I keep testing Hondas when I am ready to buy, yet they are almost always noisier than the comparable Toyota model. Personal preference. I like the current VW lineup ALOT, but the problem posts here and other places, and the CR and JDP stats just won't let me take a chance. I value my time too much to be taking the car to the dealer (and having them tell me "could not duplicate" because the problem is intermittent)
I might appreciate a little better handling (perhaps just a notch fimer shocks) on my Camry Hybrid, but not at the expense of a louder interior on the highway.
I do read CR and JDP, and have found that in most cases, the cars that are rated highly, seem to be good bets from my criteria.
Why does that sort of problem, even if Toyota extends your warranty, not count as being bothered with a problem?
The other issues -- softer ride, etc -- are personal preferenecs and beyond debate/discussion, in my view. It's the "buy Japanese and you're guaranteed to be out of the repair-problem game" that I was questioning.
It DOES count as a problem, if you have it. I changed my oil at 5,000 miles, and never experienced sludge. One of my Camrys is now owned by a friend, and with over 80,000 miles, has been trouble free. (How many people will sell a used car to a friend, and remain friends?)
And, you're right, it shouldn't take many complaining customers to get the manufacturer to act on an issue. I wasn't treated any differently than the millions of other owners of the subject vehicles. We ALL got the same letter of extended warranty.
It's the "buy Japanese and you're guaranteed to be out of the repair-problem game" that I was questioning.
I agree, buying Japanese deoesn't guarantee one to be out of the repair-problem game, just lessens the probability, compared to (unfortunately) US or European built makes. I used to buy only US cars (even worked for a US auto dealer for many years). It is a real shame we (US) can't learn from our alliances with the Japanese (Toyota-Chevy Corolla/Nova/Prism) (Toyota-Pontiac Matrix/Vibe) WHY can't we figure out after all these years of partnerships just how the Japanese do it?????
Miatas. Are. Not. Chick. Cars.
If you disagree, strap into the passenger seat of a Spec Miata on a twisty road course like Shenandoah. Hoo, boy. Just don't do it right after lunch.
-Jason
But, time/money dictate otherwise.. It was pretty cool to do it once.. of course, it was a 1.5 mile tri-oval, so not much real driving skill involved. Just a willingness to go a lot faster than your brain is telling you is safe.. :surprise:
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automatic miatas are. :b
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
25 NX 450h+ / 24 Sienna Plat AWD / 23 Civic Type-R / 21 Boxster GTS 4.0 / 03 Montero Ltd
It's not the poor Miata's fault that someone ruined a perfectly good track car with a slushbox. Kind of like a Jack Russell Terrier wearing a pink knitted sweater. Dog's still tough, but the owner has completely missed the point.
-Jason
That being said, I would happily own either.
I don't set these societal stereotypes. I just comment on them.
Back to the thread subject, I now have a bit of a dilemma. I'd planned on driving the Miata for a few months, do a track day or two, then sell it. But we've sort of... bonded, I guess. 4 cars is probably not doable long term, since I'm the sole driver on three of them. The 2004 MPV stays, the truck is needed for hauling / daily driving, the Miata is a wonderful track toy... That leaves the Alfa. I've put too much blood / sweat / tears into that car to cut it loose, but it doesn't get driven much these days, and it's a constant maintenance hog. Sigh... If I could morph the Miata and pickup into a combination track toy / stuff hauler that might work...
This track stuff can be very dangerous...
-Jason
I sold my Fiat Spyder to a friend of mine and it has been sitting in his garage for the past 15 years. Every time I see it I hear my name being called. I don't miss hunting down the parts though.
I would have bought my dad 96 Miata a couple of years ago if I had fit in it. No way 6'6" is going to fit in one. I drove it several times though with my knees banging the steering wheel. Definately a blast for a car with only 130 hp.
I followed the Toyota-sludge mess for a while, as I am now follow the Toyota recall. It was real. Many Toyota dealers did initially claim put customers off with denials. Eventually, they handled it as you described. I know that Toyota owners who initially got the brush-off were just as soured as you were by a German car dealer's "we can't replicate the problem."
"I used to buy only US cars (even worked for a US auto dealer for many years). It is a real shame we (US) can't learn from our alliances with the Japanese (Toyota-Chevy Corolla/Nova/Prism) (Toyota-Pontiac Matrix/Vibe) WHY can't we figure out after all these years of partnerships just how the Japanese do it?????"
In the August report of long term vehicle dependability from JD Powers, Mercury, Buick and Cadillac all scored better than Toyota.
"I agree, buying Japanese doesn't guarantee one to be out of the repair-problem game, just lessens the probability, compared to (unfortunately) US or European built makes"
But my main point is "how much does it lessen the probability?" I'm suggesting that it doesn't lessen it as much as people have been led to think. Or, to be more precise, you and I don't get the data that would allow us to know.
What we get are rank order lists. We can't tell if the difference between "179 problems per 100 vehicles" and "212 problems per 100 vehicles," for example, is statistically significant, that is, if one can say, on the basis of those numbers that one should (in any meaningful, real-life, put-your-money-on-it way) expect to have less trouble, when you buy a Toyota, than the guy next door who buys a BMW at the same time.
"Would I sell a European car, with 80K miles on it, to a friend?"
I passed along, to my son, a 1999 Passat with a little over 80K miles. He drove it out to 107,000 miles. Other than (the car's only) timing chain replacement (scheduled maintenance) and some work on transmission and ignition coils (paid for by VW extended warranty) at 99K, there was nothing. The car never broke down or put him in danger due to any malfunction. I have friends who have had to do similar work on Toyotas around 100K, but this is all anecdotal and doesn't prove anything, one way or the other. as with my used-Toyota friends, to extent of annoyance at having these repairs done on a car near 100K partly depends on how it gets dealt with. Some VW owners have complained that the ignition coils have been replaced a couple of times. I happen to have an independent German auto repair specialist who recognized that the master unit which feeds the 4 coils was shorting them out and would keep doing that. With a phone call from me to the VW warranty people, they saw the light and replaced all four coils and the master unit too. Trouble free for remaining 8K+ miles. Again, this, anecdotally, is similar to what I've heard from used Toyota owners at 100K.
I also sold a Ford Explorer with 70K on it to a friend. We did all the stuff one does. I showed him all the service records from when I bought the car and he had a mechanic check it out and we agreed that there was no way to know, beyond what was known about the car at the moment, what would happen, but that, if he drove it out to 100K probably some repairs would be needed and it wouldn't prove the car was a lemon.
Look at their ratings for other products or services such as investments, cell phones, and cell phone service, and see how that compares with your own experience.
I also take issue with their two-to-five dot rating system. Why the extra dot? It makes the worst products seem better than they are. It should be one to five dots (or stars), like Amazon.
Anyway.... today, when dropping off my son at school, I drive past the same early '90s MR-2 that is parked a few doors away...
But, today.. it has a FOR SALE sign on it!! I don't know anything specific about this particular car, but what I do like about it... It has T-Tops, it is white, and still has the stock wheels.. That tells me it is pretty much unmolested.. Of course, once I stop to look at it, I'll probably discover that it is an automatic..
I wonder what that would go for.. in good shape? I'm assuming that is an NA model... if its a turbo, I know it is out of my budget for a third car..
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:-)
I'm on the hunt for the perfect '84-86 Supra again. Which would be a third car and cause me a headache parking at night. But I feel the pull, first "fast" car I ever had in my youth. Finding cars that old that are still stock (the way I like 'em) is so hard. People mostly either let their cars go to pot or replace stuff with any old thing from the parts store. I see one every day when I drive to work - it is about a mile up the street from me. It looks perfect from the drive-by, a white '85 with no obvious body damage. I always long to see the "For Sale" sign in the wondow....but alas....
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
So, I told him she could drive the Legend... and, that was that... she doesn't want anything else.
I bought it mostly for sentimental value.. It was my aunt's car.. she bought it new in 1992 (upon my recommendation). I was really close to her, and she loved that car..
But, anyway... it is getting a lot more use now.. I think it might have 41K miles now.. :surprise:
And also... I'm always thinking about buying another car..
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