Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

laurasdada

Fuel $ update: Filled at Shell last night, PUG $3.08/gallon. .06/g less than Costco! And, Shell is Top Tier, too.

roadburner

$2.76 last night for Marathon 93 Octane

graphicguy

$2.87 PUG.....just now at Costco.

Sandman6472

Just saw the video on the new Honda HR-V and think it just could be the exact thing I'm looking for! Seems to be the right size and the interior smacks of being super modern with all the tech goodies that are out there. Hopefully Honda will wise up and offer Sirius/XM radio in it. As much as I like the CT and C-Max, this HR-V could just very well be my next vehicle!
At the local Ford store, saw a 2014 C-Max, think it was a 2014, on sale for $26,599 or there about. Seems like a great price for a great vehicle so might go check it out. But now my curiosity is really in high gear about this new Honda. Told the wife recently that Honda just isn't making any products that interest me and then this comes along...might just have to eat my words here!

The Sandman

Sandman6472

Why are dealers so dishonest? That CT I saw at the Lexus store yesterday is a great example. Going in, I knew how much the internet price was but didn't say a word. The deal they tried to give me showed the same exact vehicle for $1k more on their price sheet to me. Luckily, I asked for a copy and have it hear. I wrote down yesterdays internet price so I could show it to them to ask them why they basically lied to me. Just looked online again and yep, they dropped the price almost another $1k. What is going on here? guess they really want to sell that puppy but not sure what to do now. Think I will write to the store owner and tell them about their used car managers dishonesty. Doubt I'd want to spend my hard earned cash at this store but just want to let them all know that they are dishonest folks. Is there a better way to embarrass this guy even further and is this normal in the car business? Similar situation happened in 1997 at a Saturn dealer where I bought a year old Corolla. Ended up getting in touch with the owners wife and I had a refund check within a week for the difference plus tax. So, complaining to the right people does help. Any help would be appreciated here. I just can not stand dishonesty in any way, shape or form to be honest!!!

The Sandman

jayrider

sandman_6472 said:

Why are dealers so dishonest? That CT I saw at the Lexus store yesterday is a great example. Going in, I knew how much the internet price was but didn't say a word. The deal they tried to give me showed the same exact vehicle for $1k more on their price sheet to me. Luckily, I asked for a copy and have it hear. I wrote down yesterdays internet price so I could show it to them to ask them why they basically lied to me. Just looked online again and yep, they dropped the price almost another $1k. What is going on here? guess they really want to sell that puppy but not sure what to do now. Think I will write to the store owner and tell them about their used car managers dishonesty. Doubt I'd want to spend my hard earned cash at this store but just want to let them all know that they are dishonest folks. Is there a better way to embarrass this guy even further and is this normal in the car business? Similar situation happened in 1997 at a Saturn dealer where I bought a year old Corolla. Ended up getting in touch with the owners wife and I had a refund check within a week for the difference plus tax. So, complaining to the right people does help. Any help would be appreciated here. I just can not stand dishonesty in any way, shape or form to be honest!!!

The Sandman

Your issue with price only has merit if you are a buyer not a shopper. What does it matter what they say ---- you have other plans. That CT is no thrill ride --- it's just a glammed up Prius at heart. Writing a letter to the owner will make to sense unless you were were working a deal on paper.

stever

sandman_6472 said:

Doubt I'd want to spend my hard earned cash at this store but just want to let them all know that they are dishonest folks. Is there a better way to embarrass this guy even further and is this normal in the car business?

Dealer Ratings and Reviews

Besides ours, you can do those at Google, Yelp, DealerRater and more sites too.

You could also complain to the local consumer protection or AG's office about bait and switch.

corvette

sandman_6472 said:

Hopefully Honda will wise up and offer Sirius/XM radio in it. As much as I like the CT and C-Max, this HR-V could just very well be my next vehicle!

I think the Fit offers XM if you get the factory nav system. So, at the very least, the top trim level of the HR-V should have XM. Or you can always go aftermarket or connect your iPod or phone.

stickguy

Sandy, not dishonest. Usually on the Web they call it "special E-price" or some such internet lingo. You were in the showroom. So, fair game!

and Honda? one of the things that bugged me. You had to go pretty high up the model scale to get XM. even the EX model Accord (26K MSRP) didn't have it. Needed to go all the way up to EX-L. Same with Acura which is nuts. The ILX base car didn't have XM. Needed the premium package, so MSRP over 30K

stever

Reminds me of the time meeting a friend at the airport who went to the rental car counter to get a car at the last minute; when he got a quote, he opened his laptop and said "it's this price online". I've done the same thing myself with hotel rooms.

Got a link to the ad Sandy? Still smells fishy to me.

Sandman6472

After reading the article about the new HR-V, I think that's the one for me. I'd have no problem wanting the EX-L model since I do want leather and XM in my next ride. Looks to be a mini CR-V which is fine by me. The smaller size is exactly what I like and it that blue color, just about perfect! Might still go see that C-Max today but honestly, think I just need to wait a couple of years, let the hoopla die down with the HR-V and then swoop in and purchase in year 2 or 3 when any bugs should have been taken care of and there are plenty on the road so invoice pricing would be doable. Considering I still have 4 years of back to back warranty on the Tucson, seems prudent to just stay put for the next few years and build up my car fund. Sure, i could blow about $13.5 and get a newish 200CTh, but since I'm not really "in love" with it, really makes no sense actually. It's nice and all but...maybe the excitement of the wife's new purchase with all the toys on it got me wanting something similar. But from a financial standpoint, would be plain foolish to dump a perfectly good vehicle for a used year older one. Best to wait a couple of years and trade it with around 45k on the clock.
I know that kind of thinking goes against the mantra of this forum, but we have purchased two new vehicles within a years time which is pretty good for us. And if I really need a new car fix, can always take my set of keys to the A3 and take a spin because in all honesty, it really is a cool vehicle. So glad I mentioned it to her and she's already told me thanks for telling her.

The Sandman

sda

I've had this happen to me and dislike this practice, it could work to your advantage. Since they started at a higher asking price they might have been more generous with your trade value. When you called them on the asking price they reduced it without reducing your trade in. Like all negotiations very likely more room to haggle, but you maybe ahead already. Buying a car is always an adventure!

Got a link to the ad Sandy? Still smells fishy to me.

sda

I find this especially odd as GM and others include XM or similar even on their base models, fleet excluded. I also don't understand why the Accord EX does not include a leather wrapped steering wheel while a comparable Camry XLE does. Too bad the Accord Sport doesn't have a sunroof otherwise that one could be parked in my garage.

and Honda? one of the things that bugged me. You had to go pretty high up the model scale to get XM. even the EX model Accord (26K MSRP) didn't have it. Needed to go all the way up to EX-L. Same with Acura which is nuts. The ILX base car didn't have XM. Needed the premium package, so MSRP over 30K

sda

Did your wife have the Mazda repaired after someone kindly backed into it? Sat in an A3 at the Charlotte New Car show about 2 weeks ago. Very nice! I can see why they are so attractive. Congrats again.

fintail said:

Congrats, Sandy. A3 is a nice looking car, and you picked the right color. Nice to see your wife live a little and get something to enjoy, too.

corvette

sda said:

I also don't understand why the Accord EX does not include a leather wrapped steering wheel while a comparable Camry XLE does.

I never noticed that. I always thought the EX included a leather wrapped steering wheel, but you're right. At least Honda is consistent about that across their model lines (Accord/Civic/CR-V, etc.) The urethane steering wheel with no audio controls was one of the few things which made my old Altima 2.5S feel cheap inside (I liked the ivory fabric seats). Most newer cars are including audio controls on the wheel, but the leather wrapped wheel is extra.

rayainsw

from an email - after contacting vie web site;

'THIS PART IS VERY IMPORTANT!!!
By choosing to correspond with the Internet Department you have the privilege of special pricing and proprietary information. If you should decide to "stop by" just to look around and make contact with the General Sales force on the lot, you may lose this advantage.

Please.... upon your arrival onto dealership property, insist on being taken directly to the Internet department FIRST, so that I can assist you personally, and protect your privileges and your money.'

Really ???????????

brian125

This email describes many dealerships. Walk thru the front door and our trained salesmen will lie about pricing and try to rob you at all costs. Work with us in the internet dept. and we will try to be fair. Most dealerships wont actually put this in a email but this is the reality of todays car buying from a lot of dealerships.

Here is how I would deal with this dealership: Speak directly to the internet manager. Tell him/ her you will buy said model for x price. Make them commit on a price you think is fair. Then have him/ her send a faxed buyers order to complete sale leaving a credit cards deposit.. If dealership is close take a chance and go there . I wouldn't

Dealerships like the above that are close by your house are best used for test drives, finding out pricing and vehicle info. Then after you have decided on vehicle and price buy elsewhere.

Mr_Shiftright

Never walk into a saloon called "The Bucket of Blood" and expect to see ladies playing bridge.

rayainsw

'Dealerships like the above that are close by your house are best used for test drives' - Brian125
Test drive = Done & done.
This morning...
= Ray
More later...

corvette

Wow, Ray, they have a lot of gall to imply their own sales force will rip you off if you're a "walk up."

When I got the GLI, I had emailed the dealership before visiting, but the salesman I spoke to was assisting another customer. I ended up working with a different salesperson (the dealership only had two). Got a fair deal after some negotiation.

stickguy

that HRV actually looks like a perfect option for me down the road. Seems odd to say after I just got a very large (for me) "mid size" sedan! But like Sandy, it would have to be the goody laden model. I love the size and function though.

but, key will be in 3 years if I want to keep the RDX in heavy travel rotation duty, or bump that down to 2nd car duty. Not sure the HRV will really work great for long highway trips.

Can't wait to drive one in a couple of months!

oh, as to the Accord sport? IF it came with a moonroof, there would likely be one in my garage too.

nyccarguy

No sunroof in my Legacy and I really don't miss it.

stickguy

I'm not sure how the no roof idea would have worked. Not really an issue lately since the weather has been so crappy. I do love having the giant glass exposure to get light in. and the few times I got to open it, was nice.

In the spring I will enjoy it a lot. But like anything, if I had to do without I would adapt.

I saw another Sonata at target today. First out in the wild that I specifically remember. was even the same color, but no roof. makes it look a lot different.

Sandman6472

Took wife over to the Lexus store and we drove the different CT's. They acknowledged the price differences but that's it. Found out why price on the Starfire Pearl went down $1k since yesterday, been on the lot over 30 days so it's off to the auction. They actually retrieved the keys for us to drive and the wife found some grease stains on the inside A pillar so they said they could get them out. But it's on it's way out by tomorrow or Monday if I don't buy it. Turns out the price drops down by a certain amount depending on how long it's on the lot. Wife liked them and the mileage figures and said "go for it" if you can afford it. She really wanted me to go new but that would be a bit too expensive right now. They had the red metallic and a silver one, the red was a '12 with 7600 on the clock and the silver was a '13 with 13k but more money since it's been there since the 25th. They just pulled in a charcoal one, not sure of year, and loved the color. So we go inside and talk.
On the vehicle going to auction, we're at $12.5k and mine and they say that's rock bottom. Tell them I want $12 out the door and think I'd buy. So, now we wait. I have time and can wait for the others to go down in price as I don't have to do anything.

The Sandman

fintail

The relative of mine I mentioned last week who was looking at a Juke ended up with....a CPO 13 Rogue with 9K miles on it. When she went back to negotiate on the Juke, they said it was off the road due to fuel line replacement (?) not sure if that's a recall or defect. She seems happy, although regretting the black color already - not something for PNW winter driving. She also said she misses her Suburban, save for the mpgs - took the Rogue on a couple hundred mile trip, and felt odd sitting "low". Funny.

suydam

I think the Rogue is a way nicer vehicle than the Juke. It feels quite upright to me. And it looks good.

Sandman6472

So, basically got the go ahead from the other half and she understands that I want the higher mileage from the hybrid. She also said she knows I'm just o k with the Tucson as it wasn't my first choice. But again, she'd rather I buy new here. So she mentions the Prius C.
After a late lunch, head on over to Toyota and the sharks are outside waiting to swallow us whole. We ask for the sales guy she dealt with but he's busy so another one helps us. Had no top of the line Prius C's so brought over a lower one. All I can say is "meh", nothing to write home about here even though the mileage figures are really good. A real boring drive and definitely not for me, the Lexus was just so much better in every way. We both agree the Lexus was very Audi like in it's interior appointments and it even sounded so much better on acceleration and coasting to a stop. Hybrids drive a bit different than a regular vehicle, that instantaneous drop down in gear and neck snapping acceleration is not there when one mashes the gas pedal...unlike my Tucson which reacts very quickly to my right leg mashing down on the pedal. Going in, I know this but I'm more interested in better mileage numbers right now and the CT will definitely give me that. So, they're stuck at my car and $12.5 and I'm at $12. If they call tomorrow or Monday before they ship it out and say, o k, you win...we'll do $12, think I'm going to go for it. If not, I can always wait until a color I really love gets to my price point or do nothing so really, it's a win/win for me. Happy either way but just knowing the wife is on board with a hybrid makes things easier for me to do something when the time is right.
I am happy here and will stay the course unless they come to me with my price. We took the A3 as I really didn't want to have to take it home on the spot if we did agree. I have my amp in it and would need to have it taken out so need a day off to do that in. Would definitely have it put into the CT if I bought it as the sound system is pretty wimpy right now...I'd want my amp to basically get it listenable for me. So right now, think it's a 50/50 shot with me purchasing within the next couple of days. But driving a couple of them again today, I like it more and more to be honest and the interior is super nice with leather everywhere. I am happy right now!!

The Sandman


P.S. Wife said I need to look at other similar hybrids but not sure which ones they are. Any other nice hybrids like the CT for a similar price out there?

jayrider

P.S. Wife said I need to look at other similar hybrids but not sure which ones they are. Any other nice hybrids like the CT for a similar price out there?
Not a hybrid but you can buy a 2015 Buick Enclave Premium for under 25K .

corvette

sandy, don't do something impulsive which you may regret on account of them sending a used car you're interested in to auction. Another will come along. Also, it's not like you drive 50,000 miles a year, MPG is important but shouldn't be a deciding factor.

On another note, Ford used to have the worst website of any car manufacturer, but I think Chrysler/Fiat has now taken that honor. If you mosey over to the Dodge website, you will discover that an engine is an optional feature on the Dodge Dart Aero trim level. No wonder it gets 41 MPG! There are plent of other unexplained oddities on their spec sheets, as well.

breld

If you really want a true hybrid, there's not much else to compare the CT to Sandy. Maybe a Honda CR-Z, but it's not as refined, and doesn't offer backseats at all. You can get about as good mileage out of a Mazda3 or VW Golf (1.8t or TDI). But you seem to really like the interior appointments of the Lexus.

Again, I really liked the CT when I drove it, and I often look to see how used models are being priced.

I guess if they've let you walk out the door on the $500 difference, they're pretty close to their bottom line.

Excited for you! Hope it works out.

breld

So I spent the afternoon and evening car shopping for my in-laws.

Looked briefly at the Malibu and Impala, but they didn't do anything for my MIL.

Then off to Kia, where we looked at and drove a nicely equipped Optima. My MIL really liked that, and I have to agree - it sure offers a lot for the money. The current model has less "cartoonish" wheels, and the model we looked at had heated rear seats, heated and cooled front seats, memory driver's seat.

Before talking numbers, the MIL wanted to look at a couple of other things, so we looked briefly at the Passat next door to Kia; she dismissed it quickly.

I suggested if we're looking at mid-sized family cars, gotta look at the Accord. After a test drive in an EX-L, she and my FIL determine they like the Honda better and we talk numbers. Based on my calcs, I was figuring a payment of $320/month was doable ($0 down, 3/36), but they didn't even come close, so we walked. Considering they let us walk, maybe I'm off - I'll check with Michael.

That was it - they'll think about it. I might see if any dealerships have any 2014 Accords left over. I still think the Kia offers a lot for the money - probably could get a very well-equipped one for under $300/month. But I think I spoiled it a bit for the in-laws when I suggested the Accord. If they were buying, I'd agree wholeheartedly, but for a lease, the Kia may be a good way to go.

breld

The Honda dealership had a white Fit EX, manual trannie, in the showroom.

I want it.

Q - how's your FIT treating you?

stever

@mazdafun's Fit hasn't been completely stellar. Several good posts about his ownership experience were posted today.

stickguy

Interesting that one of the issues was the radio freezing up. Qbrozen has had the same issue on his Fit.

roadburner

Work issues intervened and the SRT8 sold. Figures that it sat there 7 months and a couple of weeks after I got interested it went. Oh well. Looking at other possibilities tomorrow...

stickguy

there's always another used car in the wings. It seems like you are more interested in looking that in buying, so you get to keep having fun!

corvette

breld, which slot in your garage would a Fit fill?

breld

You mean literally or figuratively?

Figuratively, it would fill that desire for a small, economic but sporty car with a smooth stick shift.

Literally, I unfortunately don't have a slot available for it in the garage.

I suppose the garage in my head always has more slots than my actual garage and budget.

breld

Michael and kyfdx - thanks for the quick responses on the lease forums!

All assuming I can find a dealer willing to sell at dealer invoice less any lease cash, seems the Accord EX-L may actually be the cheapest option versus the Optima or Sonata.

You give up a few cool tech items on the Hyundai and Kia, but gain the Honda "suite" of safety features. And my MIL unwittingly tested a few of those on the test drive (like the lane watch warning, collision alert, etc.) - I'm not kidding.

The question really will be whether they want to get into the low $300's for a payment. If not, I may start pointing them toward a Civic or Jetta - or give up some of the options on the mid-size.

Michaell

breld said:

Michael and kyfdx - thanks for the quick responses on the lease forums!

All assuming I can find a dealer willing to sell at dealer invoice less any lease cash, seems the Accord EX-L may actually be the cheapest option versus the Optima or Sonata.

You give up a few cool tech items on the Hyundai and Kia, but gain the Honda "suite" of safety features. And my MIL unwittingly tested a few of those on the test drive (like the lane watch warning, collision alert, etc.) - I'm not kidding.

The question really will be whether they want to get into the low $300's for a payment. If not, I may start pointing them toward a Civic or Jetta - or give up some of the options on the mid-size.

If you are going to drop down a size, you might consider the Elantra or Forte - there is a fair amount of tech available on those.

Sandman6472

Looking at the VW Golf as we both like the smaller dimensions and the mileage figures are pretty good. Will go take a test drive this week sometime just to get a feel for how it does drive. The wife seems pretty much on board here but guess she realizes that the Tucson is good but, I'm just not "in love" with it. We both understand that it's really not a smart move to swap out of it right now but don't hurt to look and then decide. As much as I do like the CT, not liking that Starfire Pearl as much anymore actually. The metallic red is much nicer though I prefer the charcoal and then the silver so think it's best to just wait until my preferred colors come down in price and then jump. Truthfully, if the red metallic comes down in price enough, it might just be worth it. Has 7600 on the clock right now and even though it is a 2012 model, the cpo program starts the day I would take ownership and go out 3 years or 100,000 miles from then. So if it comes down another $1k or to where the Starfire Pearl is right now, that might be the time to jump. Also, it has the stone interior and it is classy with that and the black mixed in here and there.
So, unless they call and agree to the $12k and mine, think I'll just sit back and wait. Will go out and test drive other vehicles just in case and see. The new 2015 Golf might just be the right vehicle for me! Think we have a Plan B.

The Sandman

sda

Perhaps take your Tucson to CarMax or somewhere similar to give you an appraisal. That might give you some additional leverage as you shop for that next ride. Have you thought about the Acura ILX hybrid? There may be some out there and as they were not that popular, a good deal waits?

sandman_6472 said:

Looking at the VW Golf as we both like the smaller dimensions and the mileage figures are pretty good. Will go take a test drive this week sometime just to get a feel for how it does drive. The wife seems pretty much on board here but guess she realizes that the Tucson is good but, I'm just not "in love" with it. We both understand that it's really not a smart move to swap out of it right now but don't hurt to look and then decide.

The Sandman

jayrider

sandman_6472 said:

Looking at the VW Golf as we both like the smaller dimensions and the mileage figures are pretty good. Will go take a test drive this week sometime just to get a feel for how it does drive. The wife seems pretty much on board here but guess she realizes that the Tucson is good but, I'm just not "in love" with it. We both understand that it's really not a smart move to swap out of it right now but don't hurt to look and then decide. As much as I do like the CT, not liking that Starfire Pearl as much anymore actually. The metallic red is much nicer though I prefer the charcoal and then the silver so think it's best to just wait until my preferred colors come down in price and then jump. Truthfully, if the red metallic comes down in price enough, it might just be worth it. Has 7600 on the clock right now and even though it is a 2012 model, the cpo program starts the day I would take ownership and go out 3 years or 100,000 miles from then. So if it comes down another $1k or to where the Starfire Pearl is right now, that might be the time to jump. Also, it has the stone interior and it is classy with that and the black mixed in here and there.
So, unless they call and agree to the $12k and mine, think I'll just sit back and wait. Will go out and test drive other vehicles just in case and see. The new 2015 Golf might just be the right vehicle for me! Think we have a Plan B.

The Sandman

I just feel that a used CT is not the "fun"car you are looking for. Hope I'm wrong if you buy. The CRV is a great car but it doesn't have a "fun" personality either. Now the Golf starts moving in the right direction but if you really want a smile -- go for the GTI $28500 4 door auto SE with leather.which is less than the A3 in price but right there in drive dynamics --- choose wisely my friend.

carnaught

Owning one and liking it, I still don't think the CT will make SM happy after an initial honeymoon phase, should he buy it. Add to it the fact it is used and not his color of choice and giving up $12k+ for the privlege of more difficulty getting in and out just for the Lexus name and better mpg in a lower priced gas market.....nah...don't think this computes well.

qbrozen

Other than the stereo problems, the Fit has been good. Appreciate the mileage and it is a fun little car with great practicality.

stickguy

The guy that does road tests in the Philly paper (Sturgis) had a review today of the Fit. Liked it overall. Good MPG. Hated the stereo. Did not report freezing problems, but functionally it sounds like a disaster. Not something Honda has been good at lately apparently

qbrozen

The thing is, I had a very short list of criteria when shopping that narrowed my list to 3 whole cars, and bluetooth was one of those. So not having it work is a big problem for me only because the stereo was a big part of what pushed me toward the Fit (backup cam, bluetooth, USB, aux input). Without all that, the mazda2 may have gotten the nod.

jayrider

qbrozen said:

The thing is, I had a very short list of criteria when shopping that narrowed my list to 3 whole cars, and bluetooth was one of those. So not having it work is a big problem for me only because the stereo was a big part of what pushed me toward the Fit (backup cam, bluetooth, USB, aux input). Without all that, the mazda2 may have gotten the nod.

Aren't there a number of after market radio options ?
I see Alpine, Pioneer and Kenwood receivers for less than $100 that will work.

corvette

Chevy Sonic has the backup cam on mid and higher trim levels. I think those have a nicer infotainment system than the base Sonic.

Focus Titanium also has the backup cam, but under Ford's current pricing structure, I think one of those lists for around $43,224.

roadburner

We were at the BMW dealer to pick up a couple of gifts and there was a M235i on the showroom floor. I mentioned to my wife that it was just about the only new BMW that I truly likes and she said, "Why don't you just bite the bullet and order one? I know you will wind up keeping it for a decade or more."
So that was a surprise. The thing is, MSRP is $47,625 with just the CWP and H-K, and that still doesn't include approximately $2,800 for the mandatory port-installed locking diff. Yuk
.
I looked at a Mustang GT today; MSRP with the Performance Package and a listenable audio system is $41,215. I have a $500 voucher from Ford and I can get the X-Plan price through my uncle- so I'm e-mailing the sale guy I talked with to see what the final cost would be. Not too encouraged however- seeing the sled in the metal was pretty underwhelming. I'm definitely not feeling the love right now...

I configured a Challenger to my liking and an R/T Plus is $39,970 with all the go-fast goodies and decent sound. I know it's a pig, but I think I like it better than the GT.

Audi? No RWD
M-B- Missing a pedal
VW- See Audi
FR-S/BRZ- Too slow

I'm just thankful that I don't NEED to buy a car. I did find a 2012 Boss 302 with 7214 miles and equipped all the goodies(Recaros, helical diff) for $39,990. Sticker wasn't much more- $43,575. It might be the more practical proposition as depreciation will probably remain low.

Oh well...