Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

Michaell

Thanks for the feedback. Income and credit are both an issue. His hours have increased at work but he's still not full time. And, no credit history to speak of. 

xwesx

stickguy said:

I like the lease idea, assuming he has income and a reasonable expectation of being much sounder financially in 3 years. Cheap sign and drive (or 1k max OOP) leases are there, if his credit score is ok.

Élantra is a good choice. Sentras can go cheap. Stuff like that.

A 10k car will be 11k OTD at least. So same 1k up front means 10k financed. $200/month means you are likely looking at a 5 year loan. I'm not interested in making payments on something pushing 100k miles.

Those options other than the Buick should work ok, but quite a shock after a mustang. And all pretty basic. Might do better getting new, and taking 6 year financing.

Probably a good shot. But, if your son likes to keep vehicles a while, the lease could cost more in the long run. So, I guess my reservation is that these cars are, indeed, pretty basic, so would he be happy with them for any longer than he would a lease car?

Honestly, I'd sell him my car for $10K. It's tiny, but loaded. He likes driving a stick, right? If not, sell him and lease a new son.

Michaell

@xwesx it's funny you say that. The last time his car crapped out on him he was at LAX (about 50 miles from home). Had to get a rental and ended up in a fiesta which he liked a lot. 

breld

I agree with suggestions from @stickguy. Something like an Elantra or Sentra - maybe a Kia Forte?

Basically, a good car that was sold in great numbers, so it'll have good availability on the used market. Something that, despite being a competent car, had higher than average depreciation, perhaps due to brand recognition (uh, Hyundai).

If he does enjoy a stick, that can also serve him well on the used market. Some of those cars with a stick will just sit for awhile and a dealer will be more inclined to cut a deal.

That Hertz car sales in Ventura seems to have a lot of good cars. Saw some Elantras there too - a little more pricey than the options you listed, but probably worth it.

qbrozen

Michaell said:

Greetings, all.

In California for my annual visit with the family. A possible car-buying opportunity may have come up.

My son currently drives a '97 Mustang V6. True miles unknown as the odometer stopped working at around 160K. He's had it for 6 years and loves it, but it's draining the pocketbooks of everybody here (his mom and grandparents, specifically) due to maintenance and repair costs.

It may be time for something newer and more reliable, not to mention more fuel efficient.

He can't afford much of a monthly payment - he says $200 or so - so I've been on-line looking at used former rental cars. Found a handful that might be in his budget.

Versa SV - http://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/628946177/overview/

Mazda 2 Touring - http://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/630709094/overview/

Lancer ES - http://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/630492282/overview/

And, a non-rental outlier - http://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/630235647/overview/

Thoughts? Opinions?

It wasn't long ago I was considering a brand new 2014 Mazda2 Sport for a shade over $12k, so I wouldn't consider a 2013 with 50k miles for $10k, even if its a Touring.

You should be able to find one of those or a Versa for under $10k with almost no miles.
http://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/625169148/overview/

I've seen a few Fiat 500s with almost no miles at that pricepoint, too.
http://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/628110055/overview/
http://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/629721050/overview/
http://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/631118931/overview/

jpp75

Working on a deal for an S60 lease....love the car but the dealer is borderline trustworthy. The finance guy can't explain differences on the OTB (offer to buy) so it's 50/50.

breld

Good luck @jpp5862 - it's tough when you don't feel like you can trust the dealer.

I was annoyed when the Mazda dealer let me go, just to call me back within an hour. But to their credit, when I returned, most of the paperwork was complete and exactly as we had discussed. I was in and out within an hour.

kyfdx

Michaell said:

Thanks for the feedback. Income and credit are both an issue. His hours have increased at work but he's still not full time. And, no credit history to speak of. 

I like the Mazda or the Lancer.. I'm not fond of the Versa... The problem with buying a 2005 car, is all of the plastic is 10 years old... I have a 2006 model, and something is always breaking off or peeling, or something..

iluvmysephia1

The ES Lancer should treat them right. Just make sure the recall work on the serpentine belt gets done. I loved my '08 Lancer GTS from Mitsubishi and only gave it up due to a serpentine belt failure on the highway that I ended up trading the car in. After we had our '11 Kia Soul 5-speed stick Base they acted like (talkin' about Mitsubishi now) "you should've called us when your Lancer GTS was dead and in need and we would've taken care of you". Yeah right.

Having said that, our '08 Lancer GTS was a good tracker, a good little rig with a great stereo, great pickup on the road and a great handling machine. My mission is not to take Mitsubishi to task for how our situation came out, just leaving being happy with our '08 Lancer GTS, but just not happy how our customer care situation came out. I mean, we pay a lot for these vehicles, we should not have to trade in and leave our Mitsubishi experience just because they recalled a part a few weeks after our serpentine broke. The same serpentine belt the recall replaces free of charge. It just happened to us a few weeks earlier. Come on Mitsubishi, you know you're responsible, you just decided that you'd strand us, your once-loyal Lancer GTS customers - just so you can save a few hundred dollars of customer care.

It is so not right. Leaves a crappy taste in yer mouth, yes it does. But as far as the New World Order Mitsubishi Lancer goes - Mitsubishi has built them well and built them right. They're good rigs and the best of the compact offerings industry wide.

Michaell

Again, thanks for all the feedback. I think we are going to hold off for a bit and see how secure his extra hours are. And he's talked about a second job which would up his budget to $12-13k

stickguy

without knowing the dynamics of the family (financials or otherwise), and his career/employment status, if family is having to help with repairs to keep the old crapper going, and he is dependent on it to stay employed, they may need to end up financing him into something better. especially if he isn't going to qualify for much of a loan (or a decent rate) on his own at a bank.

sometimes that works. sometimes, it doesn't go well!

if the money really is tight, or you did not want a roller skate car, something a little older but cheaper, if you buy right, can be a solid option instead of the Stang, with less investment. I know it is on the wrong coast, but age/miles/condition for the price on this seem like a good deal:

http://www.royaleasing.com/detail-2007-pontiac-g6-4dr_sedan_g6-used-13039327.html

graphicguy

stickguy said:

without knowing the dynamics of the family (financials or otherwise), and his career/employment status, if family is having to help with repairs to keep the old crapper going, and he is dependent on it to stay employed, they may need to end up financing him into something better. especially if he isn't going to qualify for much of a loan (or a decent rate) on his own at a bank.

sometimes that works. sometimes, it doesn't go well!

if the money really is tight, or you did not want a roller skate car, something a little older but cheaper, if you buy right, can be a solid option instead of the Stang, with less investment. I know it is on the wrong coast, but age/miles/condition for the price on this seem like a good deal:

http://www.royaleasing.com/detail-2007-pontiac-g6-4dr_sedan_g6-used-13039327.html

Micheall....I'm with Stick on this one. Kind of in a tough place. Need a more reliable car, but can't afford a more reliable car. I suppose this is one of those rare occassions where it doesn't matter what the purchase price is. But, the monthly note mean everything (of course, don't tell the dealer that).

Two possibilites come to mind. First, go to a new dealer's used lot. Ask them for a car they might have taken in trade but are sending to auction. Save them the time and the expense of the auction. Tell them the absolute limit on a note....36-48 months.....$200/mo...including taxes, tags and an extended warranty. Don't know if that's doable, but from my experiences, dealers will do jjust about anything to move iron quickly.

2nd possibility, go to one of those small used car lots that seem to be everywhere. Again, explain to them what you want to do. They may have some more leeway because their overhead is lower.

Most don't want to hear this, but there's always public transportation available until he can get his ducks in order better, too. That's what I would do if I were him. A bit inconvenient, but probably the best answer.

suydam

That's a really tough situation. Not much public transit in SoCal if that's where he is. All the options are bad. How much would his car bring? Maybe he could use that $$ to buy an older, much cheaper car that doesn't cost so much for repairs. An old Buick comes to mind. Then save up $$ for a better vehicle in a couple of years. The key is edging him towards financial responsibility but it really is difficult to do sometimes.

Michaell

Thanks for the feedback .. unfortunately, where his employer is located isn't well served by public transportation.

I like the idea of finding a recent trade in that would otherwise go to auction. May have to check into that when the time comes.

nyccarguy

@roadburner
Have you (or any of your buddies) had a chance to get some seat time in the new ///M3 or ///M4? They seem to be catching my eye the way the E36 & E46 ///M3s used to. I know you have a son in college which from what I've heard from others severely constricts disposable income, but if you like Alpine White, Cloth Seats, Manual Transmission, Slick Top, & Adaptive ///M Suspension ($1,000 option), it keeps the sticker price in the $65K range (looks like the sedan is about $2K cheaper).

henryn

Michaell said:

Thanks for the feedback .. unfortunately, where his employer is located isn't well served by public transportation.

I like the idea of finding a recent trade in that would otherwise go to auction. May have to check into that when the time comes.

A few years back, one of my nephews was in a similar situation. He had just gotten out of school, had an entry level job, no savings, no credit established.

I went down to my credit union and guaranteed a car loan for him. Not just co-signing, but pledging shares of the credit union as collateral. They gave him the best new car loan rate, for 4 years, on a nice 5 or 6 year old car. And they financed everything, every penny. Why not, it was guaranteed.

Of course, this rebounded on me. No good deal ever goes unpunished. No, he didn't default on the loan, or anything like that. All of my other nieces and nephews then expected me to do the same for them! I had to tell them, "Prove yourself, go to school, get the degree, THEN I'll help you buy a car."

stever

stever said:

When they get home from work they park the respective vehicles over the shop lights and apparently that keeps the critters from making their home in the cars overnight.

If you remember the kangaroo rats thread, I still haven't taken pics of neighborhood cars with the hoods up, but I did get this snap of the neighbor using the shop light method:

stever

A little help for an 18 year old please:

What is a good car for less than $7000?

kyfdx

stever said:

stever said:

When they get home from work they park the respective vehicles over the shop lights and apparently that keeps the critters from making their home in the cars overnight.

If you remember the kangaroo rats thread, I still haven't taken pics of neighborhood cars with the hoods up, but I did get this snap of the neighbor using the shop light method:

Geez, Steve.. that seems just like paradise.. Rats and flood lights..

stever

LOL.

We are trying to keep it a secret so everyone will keep retiring to Arizona instead. Wait a couple of months and I'll start posting the rattlesnake pics.

jpp75

@nyccarguy I tried to drive a Legacy yesterday, the local dealer only has one in stock and says it's an 8 - 10 week wait if you want one with Eyesight (which I do). He said they can't build them fast enough. Now we clearly don't live in an area that requires AWD (coastal NC), but they had tons of Foresters sitting there.

I took the S60 for a nice long drive yesterday, really liked everything about it. I need to work out a few final numbers tomorrow but think that's going to end up in the driveway soon.

graphicguy

henryn said:

Michaell said:

Thanks for the feedback .. unfortunately, where his employer is located isn't well served by public transportation.

I like the idea of finding a recent trade in that would otherwise go to auction. May have to check into that when the time comes.

A few years back, one of my nephews was in a similar situation. He had just gotten out of school, had an entry level job, no savings, no credit established.

I went down to my credit union and guaranteed a car loan for him. Not just co-signing, but pledging shares of the credit union as collateral. They gave him the best new car loan rate, for 4 years, on a nice 5 or 6 year old car. And they financed everything, every penny. Why not, it was guaranteed.

Of course, this rebounded on me. No good deal ever goes unpunished. No, he didn't default on the loan, or anything like that. All of my other nieces and nephews then expected me to do the same for them! I had to tell them, "Prove yourself, go to school, get the degree, THEN I'll help you buy a car."

Excellent advice.

My son moved out about 3 years ago after graduating from college. He lives a couple of hours aways (Columbus, OH) and only comes home maybe once/month. We talk on the phone almost daily, though.

Anyway, we were talking about one of his colleagues he works with who went to school with my son and works in the same dept. He said he's constantly coming home to hit is parents up for money. Apparently it's either car problems, girlfriend moved out, one excuse after the other.

Anyway, that prompted me to complement my son, and state...."you never asked me for a nickel after you moved out."

His reply was priceless...."that's because whatever money you'd loan me I'd have to hear the long lecture about financial responsibility that came with the money. It wasn't worth the money if I had to hear that lecture, yet again."

That's my boy!!!!!!!!!!

roadburner

nyccarguy said:

@roadburner
Have you (or any of your buddies) had a chance to get some seat time in the new ///M3 or ///M4? They seem to be catching my eye the way the E36 & E46 ///M3s used to. I know you have a son in college which from what I've heard from others severely constricts disposable income, but if you like Alpine White, Cloth Seats, Manual Transmission, Slick Top, & Adaptive ///M Suspension ($1,000 option), it keeps the sticker price in the $65K range (looks like the sedan is about $2K cheaper).

I haven't driven one yet, but a few of my friends have- and they really liked it. Funny thing however, a couple said they still liked the M235i better- especially from a value standpoint.

roadburner

I drove a base Mini Cooper yesterday(the dealer was offering a chance to win a 65" TV with a test drive- I didn't win). Anyway, this was the four door- 1.5 liter three banger, six speed manual. I didn't flog it hard, but it was a very nice budget ride(I could have bought it for $22k). The engine had a surprising amount of grunt, and the shifter and clutch were very smooth. The steering was a bit wooden, but certainly no worse than a new 3 Series, however. And the stop/start was absolutely seamless, unlike most of the Bimmers I've driven. The interior trim and fittings look much nicer than on previous generations and it didn't feel like a stripped loss leader at all. The thing is, one equipped the way I'd want one bumps up against a GTI with the Performance Pack and Lighting Package. And even then, going FWD again would really be just a lateral move for me.

stever

Hm, guess I will have to mention the 4 door to my sister. She can keep the Forester for the snow days and dump runs. And she has wrecked owned quite a few manual transmission cars over the decades. That price would be right down her alley.

slorenzen

For the discerning used car buyer, with LOTS of cash...

http://www.rkmotorscharlotte.com/sales/inventory/active#!/

stickguy

some nice stuff. eye popping prices. That private collection is worth quite a few million alone.

fintail

Oh, the place with the CLK GTR and the Lotec, I've read about that. In with all of the typical affluent boomer stuff are a few really unusual cars - King Cobra, 59 Chevy patrol car, etc. And this caught my eye - almost none left like this today, I like these.

slorenzen said:

For the discerning used car buyer, with LOTS of cash...

http://www.rkmotorscharlotte.com/sales/inventory/active#!/

fezo

Dang! For those prices I'll just pop into my time machine and go buy new!

fezo

That's prices...

stever

Fixed. We do have a 4 hour editing window that you can access by hovering over the gear icon to the top right of your post ....

The "gold" Prius with the solar roof is back on the "neighborhood lot" this weekend. Didn't stop to see if they have lowered the price to something more realistic.

Sandman6472

Wife let her Sirius radio expire on the 2nd only to get a come back letter with no activation fee for $89/year plus tax so on the 12th she agreed. Mine was to expire on the 13th, today but called up a couple of times yesterday and started at my price of $7/month which of course they refused. Called back a bit later and got the same rebuff with them sticking to their "$99/year" price. Mentioned the wife got it for around $85/year and said I'd do that rate but after looking it up, guy said she got the $89 plan and he could do the same so I said sure. Still cheaper than the $8.25/month deal I got on the Tucson and was all set to stream Pandora but once I found out she upped it for the Audi, decided, what the hell. Can always cancel if I decide I like Pandora better at a later date.
We're both happy with the price we got.

The Sandman

corvette

Went to some more open houses this weekend. Saw the following gems in the $250k range:
- One with "sale pending" on the sign. Didn't look open. Did not stop. Was listed as having geothermal heat and I probably wouldn't be interested for that reason.
- One with no basement but a decent sized garage. Wasn't terrible, but the neighborhood was hilly, only had one entrance/exit, and the back yard abutted high voltage power lines.
- One on a very narrow, hilly street (always difficult to tell from the Google street view), the driveway was also extremely steep and broken apart (would need to be redone, even then, would be a nightmare in the snow). Did not go in.
- One with a full basement with a small stream of water leaking from somewhere into the basement (it's been at least 12 hours since our last rain). Also had a white PVC drainage pipe running straight down the back yard?
- Emailed my realtor and told her I might as well make an offer on a less expensive house we looked at. Given the price differential, I can make it like I want it rather than trying to find a seller who has actually thought through their renovations.

This is a lot more stressful than looking for a car, in case you can't tell! Having one more beer before bed...

stickguy

I forget. what area is this?

I have been suffering through the pain of helping my Dad clean out his house so he can move to a retirement place (my mom passed away last summer). he can take very little with him, so this is close to a full clear out. This is after they lived there for 55 years, so as expected, lots of "stuff", both of the family sentimental and flat out junk. Sadly, little actually worth "whoa" money!

anyway, it became a mad dash because as it turns out, he put it on the market too soon. Because the place caused a feeding frenzy of people wanting it, with quick closings. this he was not expecting, and it would have been much easier to do the bulk of the cleaning out sooner, under our timetable. But, when you get a cash offer, above asking, no inspection, you deal with it!

the no inspection was the big selling point. because the old place is not in the best condition. So what I thought was over priced turned out to be a great deal in the town (always helps to have a nice big lot on a prime street in one of the better neighborhoods in a popular town!)

I never would have bought it. and after clearing out nooks and crannies, nothing I saw changed that opinion. But, the people that really wanted it will be gutting it immediately in a massive remodel. I doubt I will recognize the little ranch when it is done.

stever

We went to two open houses today ourselves and did a couple of other drive-bys (we have a buyer for our house, but she'll probably buy something near us, unless her Michigan house sale falls through). I dunno, seems like the educated/lazy salesperson ratio is even worse in the Realtor world. At least houses don't depreciate (usually) ten to twenty percent when you sign on the dotted line.

abacomike

corvette said:

Went to some more open houses this weekend. Saw the following gems in the $250k range: - One with "sale pending" on the sign. Didn't look open. Did not stop. Was listed as having geothermal heat and I probably wouldn't be interested for that reason. - One with no basement but a decent sized garage. Wasn't terrible, but the neighborhood was hilly, only had one entrance/exit, and the back yard abutted high voltage power lines. - One on a very narrow, hilly street (always difficult to tell from the Google street view), the driveway was also extremely steep and broken apart (would need to be redone, even then, would be a nightmare in the snow). Did not go in. - One with a full basement with a small stream of water leaking from somewhere into the basement (it's been at least 12 hours since our last rain). Also had a white PVC drainage pipe running straight down the back yard? - Emailed my realtor and told her I might as well make an offer on a less expensive house we looked at. Given the price differential, I can make it like I want it rather than trying to find a seller who has actually thought through their renovations. This is a lot more stressful than looking for a car, in case you can't tell! Having one more beer before bed...

It was interesting to read your exploits on homes, corvette.  Many years ago (1978), my wife and I decided that our first home was just too small for our family, so we started looking in our village for a bigger house.  We listed our home for $77,000 (we had paid $34,000 7 years earlier) and could not find a house we liked.

So, we looked at some model homes at the far northeastern part of the village.  We decided to custom build a home on a corner lot that was elevated - about 3/4 acre.  It was a 2-story colonial with 4-bedrooms upstairs, a full basement, a sunken living room with a cathedral ceiling, a raised dining room and large oak cabinet kitchen and a huge family room with a masonry fireplace.  It had a big patio off the family room and a 2-car garage.  We paid $98,000 for it with upgrades including full brick veneer.

To make a long story short, we sold our first house for the full $75,000 and moved into our new house.  The big mistake I made was to build the house on the highest point of the property.  The first winter we spent there we had huge snowfalls.  I forgot to consider the very steep concrete driveway up to the garage.  Even with a 2-stage Toro snowblower, there were many nights after coming home from work that my car and the wife's car sat at the bottom of the driveway because we couldn't navigate the cars up the steep hill because of snow or ice.

Looking back lack on that idiotic mistake makes me laugh - who would be stupid enough to build an elevated house with a 20 degree elevated drive in a northern State with huge snowfalls?  ME!

We were lucky enough to find a buyer for the house who loved the raised elevation (we sold it during the summer with snow the furthest thing from our minds).  I learned a valuable lesson - before buying a house, think of every contingency before making the final decision!

Good hunting, corvette!

stickguy

Mike, that is one of my deal breakers. I won't buy a house with a steep driveway, especially if you have to park on the steep part. I just refuse!

abacomike

stickguy said:

Mike, that is one of my deal breakers. I won't buy a house with a steep driveway, especially if you have to park on the steep part. I just refuse!

I agree, stick - 100% agree.  But as they say, "...that was then, this is now!"  I learned my lesson the hard way.  It sure looked gorgeous in the summer!

stickguy

I am working on the wife to sell and move (downsizing in the process). But at this point, our "must have" list is so extensive (and, frankly, unique) I suspect we would have to build new, and likely custom, to come close to our dream home! which of course likely would defeat the purpose of saving money in the process..

something older that needed extensive remodeling, but with a price that supported the work needed, might do the trick. And yes, I watch way too many "fix it up" type shows on HGTV.

corvette

stickguy said:

I forget. what area is this? 

Louisville, KY. 

Michaell

stickguy said:

I am working on the wife to sell and move (downsizing in the process). But at this point, our "must have" list is so extensive (and, frankly, unique) I suspect we would have to build new, and likely custom, to come close to our dream home! which of course likely would defeat the purpose of saving money in the process.. something older that needed extensive remodeling, but with a price that supported the work needed, might do the trick. And yes, I watch way too many "fix it up" type shows on HGTV.

Home improvement is the order if the day at casa de michaell. Had the electrician out last week to add some lighting to our downstairs closet and sconces to the family room. He also did the prewiringbfor the heated tile floors we plan to install in the family room later this spring. 

Meanwhile the wife was texting me yesterday about some heated mats you can put under pavers in the back yard that will melt the snow. She wants to rip out the concrete patio and the deck the hot tub is on and replace it with pavers. 

stever

What's your electric bill running @Michaell?

stickguy

I can guarantee that the price to rip out concrete and do heated pavers is going to give you a heart attack.

Michaell

stever said:

What's your electric bill running @Michaell?

Under $200/mo. And that's with the hot tub plugged in and the heated floors in the kitchen on in the winter. 

Michaell

stickguy said:

I can guarantee that the price to rip out concrete and do heated pavers is going to give you a heart attack.

stickguy said:

I can guarantee that the price to rip out concrete and do heated pavers is going to give you a heart attack.

I've got a step son with the skills to do this. I'm on the hook for the materials only. 

qbrozen

We keep surfing Zillow looking at the Atlanta area. Gotta find a job down there, though.

stickguy

I d a strange craving yesterday. I wanted a pickup truck. my wife of course thinks I am nuts (nothing new there).

then I went on line to poke around. Man, I see what Shifty went through. old, miled up, overpriced yuck.

All I wanted was a later run Ranger extended cab 2-door, 4x4, stick shift. In clean shape, higher miles but all redone in the expensive areas. Is that too much to ask for? of course, I would have to someone undo the Sonata lease to make room for it. So there are a few flaws in my plan.

down the line, especially if I manage to get us moved and have more parking, I'll get one. Probably. the truck and a convertible for nice weather sounds like a good combo.

breld

I've never cared too much for trucks, but I do find the new Colorado very appealing for some reason. Not that that falls anywhere near your price range.

henryn

I'm still trying to find a Colorado in stock somewhere so that I can check it out. I'm not sure whether the dealers are not getting any, or they're just all selling immediately, or some combination thereof.

stever

qbrozen said:

We keep surfing Zillow looking at the Atlanta area. Gotta find a job down there, though.

My niece and her hubby in Chattanooga would love to move to Hotlanta. The rest of the family thinks they are crazy to want to move there, especially since 'nooga is practically a suburb already. Kind of curious what your attraction to the big "new South" is. Lots of cars dealers there I suppose.