Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

nyccarguy

laurasdada said:

IIRC: BidriveRecreationalAllTerrain

2016 Jaguar XF has been unveiled: Looks like a very nice evolution of my driveway eye candy. And, from interior shots, retained the magic rotating vents. Which, yes, at 15 months are still rotating! A bit tidier and reportedly lighter, looking forward to checking it out. Perhaps I'll drive/hop Amtrak and attend the NYIAS. I wonder if Chrysler will still be giving away cheap, white plastic key chains...

I go every year on Easter Sunday in the AM (while everyone else is at church). You are welcome to join us:)

Michaell

Hey folks ... got a second hand buying story to share with everyone.

I'll start off by saying the pizza business has been pretty good lately. I've been doing my part-time delivery gig for about 6 1/2 years now, and our store is doing more than twice the business now as it was when I started.

Anyway, my current store manager started working at the store just a few months before I did .. he was 16 and in HS. He worked inside making pizzas, then after he got his license he did a bit of delivery. He bounced around a little bit - he actually left the pizza business for a bit and worked for Lowe's - before coming back and going to work as an assistant manager at a store close to ours. He came over to be our manager last summer. It took him a few months to get his legs under him, but he has been running the store pretty well since then.

Two or three years ago, he bought himself a new Mazda 6 - i Sport, I believe. Pretty base model, black on black. He really liked it.

Today, when I came into work, I noticed the Mazda wasn't in the parking lot - in its place was a brand new Infiniti Q50 AWD Premium. Whoa!

Asked him about it -- he had been telling me he wanted a Volvo S60 - whatever the model is with the 350 HP engine. Guess the Infiniti dealer made him a better offer. He is buying, not leasing - double whoa!

I'm just amazed that he has a car that stickers for close to $50K at age 23. Guess the success of the store has translated into some decent sized bonuses for him and his assistant manager.

And, one of the folks who works on the "make line" putting pizzas together has a new Subaru STi .. how he affords it working only part time I'll never know. Unless he has another job somewhere.

sb55

stickguy said:

Oh if I bought one, unless it had papers to show it done, I would budget a head gasket replacement or whatever exactly the preventive maintenance plan is.

We have an '06 Legacy wagon that we still own and son drives. My indy mechanic does head gasket same time as water pump and timing belt at 110k miles, which is still 15k miles away. I told my son to start saving up for that $1500.00 job.

qbrozen

Michaell said:

Hey folks ... got a second hand buying story to share with everyone.

I'll start off by saying the pizza business has been pretty good lately. I've been doing my part-time delivery gig for about 6 1/2 years now, and our store is doing more than twice the business now as it was when I started.

Anyway, my current store manager started working at the store just a few months before I did .. he was 16 and in HS. He worked inside making pizzas, then after he got his license he did a bit of delivery. He bounced around a little bit - he actually left the pizza business for a bit and worked for Lowe's - before coming back and going to work as an assistant manager at a store close to ours. He came over to be our manager last summer. It took him a few months to get his legs under him, but he has been running the store pretty well since then.

Two or three years ago, he bought himself a new Mazda 6 - i Sport, I believe. Pretty base model, black on black. He really liked it.

Today, when I came into work, I noticed the Mazda wasn't in the parking lot - in its place was a brand new Infiniti Q50 AWD Premium. Whoa!

Asked him about it -- he had been telling me he wanted a Volvo S60 - whatever the model is with the 350 HP engine. Guess the Infiniti dealer made him a better offer. He is buying, not leasing - double whoa!

I'm just amazed that he has a car that stickers for close to $50K at age 23. Guess the success of the store has translated into some decent sized bonuses for him and his assistant manager.

And, one of the folks who works on the "make line" putting pizzas together has a new Subaru STi .. how he affords it working only part time I'll never know. Unless he has another job somewhere.

Do these "kids" still live at home? That would explain alot. If my kid comes home with an expensive car while still living with us, he's going to be sleeping in that car.

Michaell

qbrozen said:

Michaell said:

Hey folks ... got a second hand buying story to share with everyone.

I'll start off by saying the pizza business has been pretty good lately. I've been doing my part-time delivery gig for about 6 1/2 years now, and our store is doing more than twice the business now as it was when I started.

Anyway, my current store manager started working at the store just a few months before I did .. he was 16 and in HS. He worked inside making pizzas, then after he got his license he did a bit of delivery. He bounced around a little bit - he actually left the pizza business for a bit and worked for Lowe's - before coming back and going to work as an assistant manager at a store close to ours. He came over to be our manager last summer. It took him a few months to get his legs under him, but he has been running the store pretty well since then.

Two or three years ago, he bought himself a new Mazda 6 - i Sport, I believe. Pretty base model, black on black. He really liked it.

Today, when I came into work, I noticed the Mazda wasn't in the parking lot - in its place was a brand new Infiniti Q50 AWD Premium. Whoa!

Asked him about it -- he had been telling me he wanted a Volvo S60 - whatever the model is with the 350 HP engine. Guess the Infiniti dealer made him a better offer. He is buying, not leasing - double whoa!

I'm just amazed that he has a car that stickers for close to $50K at age 23. Guess the success of the store has translated into some decent sized bonuses for him and his assistant manager.

And, one of the folks who works on the "make line" putting pizzas together has a new Subaru STi .. how he affords it working only part time I'll never know. Unless he has another job somewhere.

Do these "kids" still live at home? That would explain alot. If my kid comes home with an expensive car while still living with us, he's going to be sleeping in that car.

Nope, he's got his own place.

breld

More power to these young adults who are able to get the car they want. Good for them.

Let's see, when I was 23...I was a young CPA at a Big 6 (at the time) firm, driving my '93 Honda Prelude that I had bought used for about $16k. From there, moved on to a Legacy, Passat, TSX and then, in my early 30's, I sprung for the 530xi. There's something to be said for "working your way up" the car ladder, and appreciating those cars along the way. Of course, I appreciated them so much that I've kinda moved back into that type of car with the Mazda3.

I'm afraid my wife and I spoiled my stepdaughter with the A3. I mean, it was no more expensive than a used Jetta or Civic, but she's a little too proud of having an "Audi." Makes me cringe a little. And we had to talk her into the Audi, which we thought was a good value for what it was. She still wanted the VW. We created a monster.

Speaking of, took the A3 in for service yesterday and was told that it could use a timing belt replacement. Perhaps a little premature, but the mechanic (whom I trust) said it would have to be done within the next 10k miles, and since it's our daughter driving it, we decided to just get it done. Hopefully it's not the start of a trend of high maintenance bills.

laurasdada

I go every year on Easter Sunday in the AM (while everyone else is at church). You are welcome to join us:)

So, Bradd, every Easter Sunday morn, you do go to church!

nyccarguy

laurasdada said:

I go every year on Easter Sunday in the AM (while everyone else is at church). You are welcome to join us:)

So, Bradd, every Easter Sunday morn, you do go to church!

yes, the church of Jacob K. Javitz.

xwesx

23. Yikes. What a crazy time! I owned four vehicles at that age (three of which are still on my sig line).

As mentioned, it is good to see people successful at that age. Perhaps the better long-term success would come from more prudent use of money earned in youth, but then you only live once.

xwesx

breld said:

I'm afraid my wife and I spoiled my stepdaughter with the A3. I mean, it was no more expensive than a used Jetta or Civic, but she's a little too proud of having an "Audi." Makes me cringe a little. And we had to talk her into the Audi, which we thought was a good value for what it was. She still wanted the VW. We created a monster.

Stick provided his kids with pretty nice cars (Acura, Volvo) during their youth as well, and his son, anyway, seems to be making it through that with practicality intact! Hopefully she appreciates her fortune during this time of her life, and perhaps she'll appreciate it more when she has to "step down" a bit to buy her own car before eventually stepping up.

nyccarguy

I think there is MUCH less (if any at all) of a "stepping down stigma" than back in the '90s or early '00s when you were almost expected to "trade up." That seems to have all but vanished since the economy went south in 2008. Between the high gas prices and recession, automakers built their "lower end cars" with high tech and luxurious features and options traditionally reserved for higher end models.

Michaell

nyccarguy said:

I think there is MUCH less (if any at all) of a "stepping down stigma" than back in the '90s or early '00s when you were almost expected to "trade up." That seems to have all but vanished since the economy went south in 2008. Between the high gas prices and recession, automakers built their "lower end cars" with high tech and luxurious features and options traditionally reserved for higher end models.

I'll second that .. I've never owned a "luxury" make - it's been Ford, Honda, Saturn, etc.

The Elantra and the Outback both have features that, just a few years ago, you would only have found on higher end cars.

Try as I might - and I've been a petrol-head since I was a kid - I just can't see spending the money for a badge. Wife thinks the Subaru is a luxurious as any Volvo we could have gotten.

nyccarguy

We've owned 3 "luxury makes," a 2007 X3, 2010 TSX, & 2011 328xi. The badge is the least of my concerns. I look at the specific car 1st and how it suits my needs. When we bought our Pilot, I did like certain things about the comparable MDX better (longer warranty, more power, better driving, more luxurious interior...), but it wasn't worth the price difference to me. @breld is a perfect example of this. His fleet went from multiple BMWs (because he likes BMWs, not the roundel on the hood) to a VW, Kia, & a Mazda.

breld

I certainly agree with the sentiments above. My Mazda3 has loads of luxury and tech features, some of which are outright copied from the luxury brands (like the MMI/iDrive control knob I love).

But there are definitely some other, more subtle, touches that you don't get at this price point (at least not in my Mazda). To name a few: Lined storage compartments, better materials for headliners, visors, etc., better sound insulation, more cargo lining in trunk/hatch, etc. etc.

Overall, I'd say the non-luxury brands include many of the features previously exclusive to luxury brands (trickle down effect), but don't necessarily include all the same subtleties of quality.

All that is to say, I don't think you're paying extra only for a badge. BMW, MB, Audi, Lexus, etc. put a lot of thought into the little details. Whether those things are important enough to you to pay the premium is a separate issue.

To be fair, some of that quality and related quietness that I'm missing in the Mazda3 would probably be there in a Mazda6.

xwesx

While I do agree with the above sentiments, my "original" statement was in direct response to breld's concern that his daughter is feeling a bit superior/entitled because she drives an Audi. It's not that the A3 she drives is worlds apart from the equivalent Jetta in price or features, but that it has the Audi badge on it. So, clearly, this holds some sort of value to her without rational thought to support it (well, we are talking about a teen here, so I apologize for using the word "rational" in the same paragraph!).

nyccarguy

"Overall, I'd say the non-luxury brands include many of the features previously exclusive to luxury brands (trickle down effect), but don't necessarily include all the same subtleties of quality."

Very well said

corvette

Don't know whether anyone here follows it, but this is, effectively, the end of Top Gear in its current form:
Jeremy Clarkson dropped from Top Gear, BBC confirms

So many good memories. Hope the presenters go on to do other amazing work.

stickguy

I heard my name mentioned?

Yes, my kids had "fancy" badges on their cars. Of course, the Acura was 10 YO with 145K on it when I bought it (and showed plenty of wear and tear on the body). My son loved it though. Not because of the name. Just from how well it drove (and the vast improvement over his nasty little contour).

His first car of his own is a VW. he is hooked on German now, and is already planning on an Audi in 2 years to replace it.

The VW had 91K on it. and being a NA S40, qualified as a putt putt mobile. this was bought for safety more than luxury, though it was pretty well equipped. remains to be seen what will strike her fancy when it is her dime. But she is very fond of my Sonata (I let her take it out today while she is home on break).

speaking of the Sonata, it is loaded as any luxury make. and at least in the limited model, the quality bits (materials, etc.) also seem to be upscale.

xwesx

Yeah, I called you out. LOL

I'm sure most of us can remember what we drove as teens (if at all) and these cars are pretty comfortable in comparison. I mean, sure, I was able to drive my parents' cars from time to time (and they seemed so posh!), but those weren't our cars.

jpp75

A bit late but add a punch, leased an S60 T5 Platinum a couple of weeks ago, Saville Gray (basically charcoal) with tan interior. 15,000 miles/yr, $460/mo with only first payment due at delivery.

Overall I like the car a lot so far, 500 miles but it's been sitting at the airport for the last week. It has the climate package and all the tech goodies. Will try to post some pictures when I get back home, along with a more thorough write up.

jpp75

nyccarguy said:

Hey guys. I just wanted to extend an invitation to all of you who I consider my friends here and also on Buying and Selling: If any of you plan on travelling to New York this spring or summer and would like to see the 27 time world series champion New York Yankees play, please let me know. I have season tickets through my company and it would be my honor to send someone (and a guest) to a game.

Thanks nyc! How do you like the "new" stadium? My dad was a huge Mantle fan so we took him to a game the last year they were in the old stadium, haven't been back since though.

breld

xwesx said:

While I do agree with the above sentiments, my "original" statement was in direct response to breld's concern that his daughter is feeling a bit superior/entitled because she drives an Audi. It's not that the A3 she drives is worlds apart from the equivalent Jetta in price or features, but that it has the Audi badge on it. So, clearly, this holds some sort of value to her without rational thought to support it (well, we are talking about a teen here, so I apologize for using the word "rational" in the same paragraph!).

Oh yeah - your original comment was spot on, in that hopefully she appreciates what she has now, and hopefully more so when it comes time for her to make her own car purchase.

And, to be honest, she does seem to recognize that she is lucky, if not a bit spoiled. She also knows how her mom and I are with regard to cars, and that she could prompt a shopping trip pretty easily. But she never takes advantage of that - in fact, there isn't anything it seems she'd rather have, though she does have something for Infinitis. That will be something for her to aspire to and motivate her through college I suppose.

breld

jpp5862 said:

A bit late but add a punch, leased an S60 T5 Platinum a couple of weeks ago, Saville Gray (basically charcoal) with tan interior. 15,000 miles/yr, $460/mo with only first payment due at delivery.

Overall I like the car a lot so far, 500 miles but it's been sitting at the airport for the last week. It has the climate package and all the tech goodies. Will try to post some pictures when I get back home, along with a more thorough write up.

Congrats on the punch! Sounds great. I haven't spent much time in the Volvo showroom, but I do like the styling of their newer models. Just the other day, my wife brought up the V60. I have yet to see one on the road, so it would be pretty unique, if nothing else.

Michaell

breld said:

A bit late but add a punch, leased an S60 T5 Platinum a couple of weeks ago, Saville Gray (basically charcoal) with tan interior. 15,000 miles/yr, $460/mo with only first payment due at delivery. Overall I like the car a lot so far, 500 miles but it's been sitting at the airport for the last week. It has the climate package and all the tech goodies. Will try to post some pictures when I get back home, along with a more thorough write up.

Congrats on the punch! Sounds great. I haven't spent much time in the Volvo showroom, but I do like the styling of their newer models. Just the other day, my wife brought up the V60. I have yet to see one on the road, so it would be pretty unique, if nothing else.

I've seen a few V60's on the road on my side of town. I think I like our outback better. 

roadburner

breld said:

xwesx said:

While I do agree with the above sentiments, my "original" statement was in direct response to breld's concern that his daughter is feeling a bit superior/entitled because she drives an Audi. It's not that the A3 she drives is worlds apart from the equivalent Jetta in price or features, but that it has the Audi badge on it. So, clearly, this holds some sort of value to her without rational thought to support it (well, we are talking about a teen here, so I apologize for using the word "rational" in the same paragraph!).

Oh yeah - your original comment was spot on, in that hopefully she appreciates what she has now, and hopefully more so when it comes time for her to make her own car purchase.

And, to be honest, she does seem to recognize that she is lucky, if not a bit spoiled. She also knows how her mom and I are with regard to cars, and that she could prompt a shopping trip pretty easily. But she never takes advantage of that - in fact, there isn't anything it seems she'd rather have, though she does have something for Infinitis. That will be something for her to aspire to and motivate her through college I suppose.

I may have mentioned this, but my son started driving the '02 just about the time Katy Perry's Teenage Dream video was released. The video featured a friend's 1600 cabriolet, and the family resemblance gave the '02 a healthy boost in its cool factor.

nyccarguy

jpp5862 said:

A bit late but add a punch, leased an S60 T5 Platinum a couple of weeks ago, Saville Gray (basically charcoal) with tan interior. 15,000 miles/yr, $460/mo with only first payment due at delivery.

Overall I like the car a lot so far, 500 miles but it's been sitting at the airport for the last week. It has the climate package and all the tech goodies. Will try to post some pictures when I get back home, along with a more thorough write up.

Nice! Mazel-Tov & congrats on the punch! What did you get rid of?

nyccarguy

jpp5862 said:

nyccarguy said:

Hey guys. I just wanted to extend an invitation to all of you who I consider my friends here and also on Buying and Selling: If any of you plan on travelling to New York this spring or summer and would like to see the 27 time world series champion New York Yankees play, please let me know. I have season tickets through my company and it would be my honor to send someone (and a guest) to a game.

Thanks nyc! How do you like the "new" stadium? My dad was a huge Mantle fan so we took him to a game the last year they were in the old stadium, haven't been back since though.

The new stadium is nice. It is actually a great place to watch a ball game. The crowd seems like they are more interested in being there than watching the game. The old stadium was just awesome. It used to literally shake during big games.

kyfdx

breld said:

jpp5862 said:

A bit late but add a punch, leased an S60 T5 Platinum a couple of weeks ago, Saville Gray (basically charcoal) with tan interior. 15,000 miles/yr, $460/mo with only first payment due at delivery.

Overall I like the car a lot so far, 500 miles but it's been sitting at the airport for the last week. It has the climate package and all the tech goodies. Will try to post some pictures when I get back home, along with a more thorough write up.

Congrats on the punch! Sounds great. I haven't spent much time in the Volvo showroom, but I do like the styling of their newer models. Just the other day, my wife brought up the V60. I have yet to see one on the road, so it would be pretty unique, if nothing else.

I loooovvveee the V60..

au1994

corvette said:

Don't know whether anyone here follows it, but this is, effectively, the end of Top Gear in its current form:
Jeremy Clarkson dropped from Top Gear, BBC confirms

So many good memories. Hope the presenters go on to do other amazing work.

I'm bummed. Yes, he should not have done what he did but man, was this a great show. The dry British wit just cracks me up. Some great cinematography and the Specials were awesome. Tough to say which was my favorite between the Vietnam special or the Bolivia special. So many great regular episodes too!

ab348

nyccarguy said:

The new stadium is nice. It is actually a great place to watch a ball game. The crowd seems like they are more interested in being there than watching the game. The old stadium was just awesome. It used to literally shake during big games.

I happened to visit Detroit in 1984 and went to a Tigers game at Tiger Stadium during their pennant run. The place was full and the game was close, and the stadium there shook too. It was quite unnerving. To think that big structure could move like that was really unsettling.

fezo

Even Shea shook in a good, insane game. I was at game 6 in the 86 Series. Somewhat amazed we didn't collapse the place.

The new Yankee Stadium to me is too much of a revenue generator rather than a ball park like the old one. You could entertain yourself all night and never see the game. It's not like the Yankees have a monopoly on such things. Citi and Citizens are the same way. The Yankees have just perfected it.

jpp75

nyccarguy said:

jpp5862 said:

A bit late but add a punch, leased an S60 T5 Platinum a couple of weeks ago, Saville Gray (basically charcoal) with tan interior. 15,000 miles/yr, $460/mo with only first payment due at delivery.

Overall I like the car a lot so far, 500 miles but it's been sitting at the airport for the last week. It has the climate package and all the tech goodies. Will try to post some pictures when I get back home, along with a more thorough write up.

Nice! Mazel-Tov & congrats on the punch! What did you get rid of?

Nothing, we're back to 3 cars. The Pathfinder just rolled 150,000 miles and I'm not getting rid of it but at this point definitely could justify something newer, safer, etc. for a daily driver.

jpp75

kyfdx said:

breld said:

jpp5862 said:

A bit late but add a punch, leased an S60 T5 Platinum a couple of weeks ago, Saville Gray (basically charcoal) with tan interior. 15,000 miles/yr, $460/mo with only first payment due at delivery.

Overall I like the car a lot so far, 500 miles but it's been sitting at the airport for the last week. It has the climate package and all the tech goodies. Will try to post some pictures when I get back home, along with a more thorough write up.

Congrats on the punch! Sounds great. I haven't spent much time in the Volvo showroom, but I do like the styling of their newer models. Just the other day, my wife brought up the V60. I have yet to see one on the road, so it would be pretty unique, if nothing else.

I loooovvveee the V60..

They had a couple of them on the lot when I leased the S60, very sharp looking wagon.

jpp75

breld said:

Congrats on the punch! Sounds great. I haven't spent much time in the Volvo showroom, but I do like the styling of their newer models. Just the other day, my wife brought up the V60. I have yet to see one on the road, so it would be pretty unique, if nothing else.

I wasn't initially looking at a Volvo, but just stopped by to drive one and really came to like it. Went back and took it on an extended test drive and decided to go for it. I was going to go test drive a Mazda3 but our dealer here is shady and I decided to just go with the S60.

qbrozen

V60 is probably the best looking wagon in the US in the past 50 years. Completely subjective, of course.

Michaell

qbrozen said:

V60 is probably the best looking wagon in the US in the past 50 years. Completely subjective, of course.

No, I'll agree with you. And, bigger than it looks on the inside, though probably smaller than the Outback we just got.

Plus, an extra $10K in my bank account when it's all said and done. Dang, I hate the way the European manufacturers deal with their options.

kyfdx

qbrozen said:

V60 is probably the best looking wagon in the US in the past 50 years. Completely subjective, of course.

No.. I'm very objective and I agree with you...

xwesx

I'll be the lone dissenter, but it's still a very nice wagon. Any more, wagons are such a rare commodity that it's a little thrilling just to see one... any one! LOL

stickguy

If I had the money, I would happily swap the RDX for a V60

nyccarguy

stickguy said:

If I had the money, I would happily swap the RDX for a V60

You might not have the money, but you MIGHT have equity in the RDX and the credit to make the monthly payment on the V60:)

stickguy

I got lots of equity in it. And payments. Just don't want to extend them. And some day to ditch the debt!

corvette

kyfdx said:

No.. I'm very objective and I agree with you...

"...and I am unanimous in that." - Mrs. Slocombe on Are You Being Served

coldinohio

interesting re Volvo V60
my final 3 last year were: Audi A4, VolvoS60, Caddy ATS (all AWD)
really like the Caddy RWD bias , not fond of dealer or backseat
Volvo nice, just didn't want the old engine
so got A4 with 6sp manual (doing the summer/winter tire-- which is a bit of a PITA but more fun car in the summer)

corvette

coldinohio said:

so got A4 with 6sp manual (doing the summer/winter tire-- which is a bit of a PITA but more fun car in the summer)

If it's a Quattro, it should move really well in snow with winter tires.

js06gv

There was some talk about new cars and features a few posts back.

An observation as I was backing out of the driveway yesterday. My 3 daily drivers all have varying degrees of safety features. Starting from the bottom....Optima with backup camera only, F150 with camera and backup sensors, and new Mustang with both of those plus blind spot monitoring and rear cross traffic alert. I don't think I rely on any of these features 100% but subconsciously I sort of expect all of them to be there no matter which car I'm driving, just because I've experienced them in the Mustang. So I have to "remember" which car I'm in if I'm backing down the driveway, or changing lanes, and do a quick mental count of how many beeps or lights I should be seeing. Mind you, this is also without any of these cars having lane keep/departure, radar cruise, front sensors or 360 cameras so it could be much worse. And who knows what's in store in the way of safety features yet to come.

Then there's my Trans Am, which with two airbags, ABS, and traction control was about as good as it got in 2000 for a domestic car. But it DOES have a still functioning power antenna!

I've said it before, and this is what makes the post relevant for the CCBA thread. The goal of these manufacturers is to get the hook in you for all this new stuff so we will all be tempted to trade more often. Seems to be working well.

stickguy

I have same problem. Sonata has blind spot and cross path monitors. I miss those on our Acura, and have to think when I drive that to remember what it doesn't squawk about!

And heck yeah. You get hooked on a feature and can't go back.

suydam

I have that problem too. No guidelines on the rear camera of my Encore like the Accord has, but man I like the Encore's rear cross traffic sensors and blind spot alerts!

sb55

js06gv said:

There was some talk about new cars and features a few posts back.

An observation as I was backing out of the driveway yesterday. My 3 daily drivers all have varying degrees of safety features. Starting from the bottom....Optima with backup camera only, F150 with camera and backup sensors, and new Mustang with both of those plus blind spot monitoring and rear cross traffic alert. I don't think I rely on any of these features 100% but subconsciously I sort of expect all of them to be there no matter which car I'm driving, just because I've experienced them in the Mustang. So I have to "remember" which car I'm in if I'm backing down the driveway, or changing lanes, and do a quick mental count of how many beeps or lights I should be seeing. Mind you, this is also without any of these cars having lane keep/departure, radar cruise, front sensors or 360 cameras so it could be much worse. And who knows what's in store in the way of safety features yet to come.

Then there's my Trans Am, which with two airbags, ABS, and traction control was about as good as it got in 2000 for a domestic car. But it DOES have a still functioning power antenna!

I've said it before, and this is what makes the post relevant for the CCBA thread. The goal of these manufacturers is to get the hook in you for all this new stuff so we will all be tempted to trade more often. Seems to be working well.

My 2010 BMW has parking sensors, so it beeps when I get close to an object, either front or rear, and shows yellow or red on the nav. screen depending on how close to an object. My 2014 Silverado has a rear camera only. I think that I like the beeps better, as the aural warning is nice when turning around to back up. You can't only watch the screen when backing a large pickup, you need to look all around.

roadburner

What tempts me is improved performance, period. None of the new features encourage me to look for a newer car in the slightest.

rayainsw

Going to be available with AWD...

http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-shows/new-york-auto-show/news/a25430/the-2017-vw-golf-sportwagen-alltrack-is-coming-to-us/