Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

henryn

breld said:

I think this integration of your phone's actual operating system into the car's infotainment system is pretty significant - maybe not earth-shattering, but significant.

With all the functions we tend to use our phones for, it will be nice when the cars simply "piggy-back" off that, instead of trying to re-invent the interface and functionality.

For instance, when I was shopping the Civic Si, I liked the idea that you could simply purchase an app for the iPhone then plug it in via HDMI, and you now have navigation (and other functions) on the screen, via your phone. I think it was something like $150 for the app and "special" cable - as opposed to the $1,500-$2,000 manufacturers tend to charge for "built-in" navigation.

This ^^^^ is the future. Absolutely, no question about it. Paying $1,500 for built in NAV, when google maps on your phone works better / is more accurate is absolutely insane. I predict within 2 years the only cars even offering built in NAV will be those aimed squarely at old fogeys.

stever

Aren't those screens getting combined with the other display features though? May be stuck with it.

xwesx

I'm truly at a loss to understand what motivates people to shell out $100+ / month basically forever for these devices. Those of you who embed yourselves in the modern technology craze, have you considered how much more you spend per month on these various tech "conveniences" than you spent, say, 10-15 years ago?

I spend approximately $800 per year on internet, and it drives me crazy to do so. I would be perfectly happy still using dial up (which was far more consistent in speed than what I have now) if it weren't for the fact that websites have universally decided that they have to be multiple megabytes in size to load. Even still, I choose to have that unnecessary convenience of internet at home, so that's a voluntary $800 per year I toss into the technology machine.

stevedebi

stever said:

Aren't those screens getting combined with the other display features though? May be stuck with it.

Yes, and the automakers have no incentive to lose the extra money they get by requiring NAV on certain trim levels. They could not ask that much more if it was only a glorified trip computer and entertainment controller.

au1994

I've yet to find a factory nav as good as google maps. That app has guided me around the world without missing a beat.

stevedebi

au1994 said:

I've yet to find a factory nav as good as google maps. That app has guided me around the world without missing a beat.

True, but here in the West it is quite possible to get to places where there is no cell phone coverage.

Michaell

stevedebi said:

au1994 said:

I've yet to find a factory nav as good as google maps. That app has guided me around the world without missing a beat.

True, but here in the West it is quite possible to get to places where there is no cell phone coverage.

But there aren't many roads in those areas - tough to get lost!

thebean

@xwesx, thanks for the clarification.  You have my sympathy for that long ordeal and my best wishes for a successful completion.  Better you than me - I do not have near that much patience.  

fintail

Depends on what you use it for. I work in the industry so I don't pay exactly that much, but I get phone service (don't have landline), internet, music streaming, cheap international calls, the ability to travel with my phone, messaging, et al - not to mention the maps. I suspect adjusted for inflation, it's not a huge amount more than many were paying for landline + long distance 40 years ago.

xwesx said:

I'm truly at a loss to understand what motivates people to shell out $100+ / month basically forever for these devices. Those of you who embed yourselves in the modern technology craze, have you considered how much more you spend per month on these various tech "conveniences" than you spent, say, 10-15 years ago?

kyfdx

I can remember $50-$60 monthly long distance bills, in the '80s..

Had a girlfriend that was a sales rep to department stores.. Pre-cell phone.. $500 monthly long distance bills...

xwesx

Ah, phone bills! Yeah, I remember those.... hearing horror stories about how someone's teen sister/daughter/etc. would rack up a several hundred-dollar fee due to long distance charges. My solution to that was just to not make long distance calls and, when I did, to limit how long and to whom. Now, on the rare occasion I do make a distance call, I double-up on my internet and use Skype. If the IC isn't working, I just don't make the call.

Honestly, I think my father holds a bit of resentment that I don't call him very often. But, he's the one with the cell. If he wants to talk, it doesn't cost him anything he wasn't already paying.

I was thinking about the topic posted previously as a result of a ride in a courtesy shuttle this morning. There were six of us in a Sienna, and everyone except the me and the driver were glued to their "smartphones." After ten minutes of silence and the first guy getting out at his stop, I struck up a conversation with the driver (I was in the back row) about cars. One guy immediately put down his device and joined in. The other two started out with annoyed looks as they tried to concentrate on their phones, but after a couple more minutes, they, too, put down their phones and participated. It was almost an odd concept for the modern world: People in close proximity conversing with each other!

As I sat in the back and observed the world around me for that thirty-minute ride, I noted that many drivers were either on phones or fiddling with something (e.g., looking in a direction other than out the windshield/windows), and every single passenger (front seats).... EVERY SINGLE ONE, was using a handheld device. Now, there weren't a lot of cars that I saw with passengers in them (probably seven or eight), but still. That's a sad state of affairs when we're so caught up in our distractions that we completely miss the world around us.

It's an alluring and slippery slope. Situational awareness must be at an all-time low.

Sandman6472

Within a few years, I suspect most vehicles will be wifi'd and that'll level the playing field with navi systems being a thing of the past. Just rolling along with the times I guess. And at work, I notice everyone has some sort of smart phone and they use them, basically all the time. Very rare for a customer that I take home to even bother to talk with me as they are on their phones and punching numbers. But I definitely notice those folks who are driving and talking on their hand held devices, they just can't keep up with the flow of traffic for some reason...those who go through their vehicles system seem to drive just fine which saves us all. I did notice on my new AT&T cell that it wouldn't take any calls if I was traveling over 25 mph, some app did that, but since I need my phone while going from place to place, I had to shut that app down. My lead driver got pissed off at me because every call went straight to voice mail. Just thought that app was just a bit much...I'd rather be the one to decide to answer any call while driving!
Still love having a hand held device because of the time saver it is, having a mini computer at one's finger tips is a dream come true when used properly!

The Sandman

xwesx

Sandy,

I see you drank the Kool-Aid.

ab348

xwesx said:

Ah, phone bills! Yeah, I remember those.... hearing horror stories about how someone's teen sister/daughter/etc. would rack up a several hundred-dollar fee due to long distance charges.

Instead, now you hear stories about someone traveling to another country, leaving their roaming turned on, and getting a bill for a few thousand dollars when they get home.

kyfdx

ab348 said:

xwesx said:

Ah, phone bills! Yeah, I remember those.... hearing horror stories about how someone's teen sister/daughter/etc. would rack up a several hundred-dollar fee due to long distance charges.

Instead, now you hear stories about someone traveling to another country, leaving their roaming turned on, and getting a bill for a few thousand dollars when they get home.

My son went to Mexico for a week... Had to buy a $30 add-on to our A.T.&T. cell phone plan (good for a month), and even then, he had to leave his data turned off and only use Wi-Fi and text. (calls would have been an extra $1/minute). I think that's kind of silly.

And.. on the conversation side of things? Good luck if you end up in a car with me... Never met a stranger... lol

roadburner

xwesx said:

Ah, phone bills! Yeah, I remember those.... hearing horror stories about how someone's teen sister/daughter/etc. would rack up a several hundred-dollar fee due to long distance charges. My solution to that was just to not make long distance calls and, when I did, to limit how long and to whom. Now, on the rare occasion I do make a distance call, I double-up on my internet and use Skype. If the IC isn't working, I just don't make the call.

Honestly, I think my father holds a bit of resentment that I don't call him very often. But, he's the one with the cell. If he wants to talk, it doesn't cost him anything he wasn't already paying.

I was thinking about the topic posted previously as a result of a ride in a courtesy shuttle this morning. There were six of us in a Sienna, and everyone except the me and the driver were glued to their "smartphones." After ten minutes of silence and the first guy getting out at his stop, I struck up a conversation with the driver (I was in the back row) about cars. One guy immediately put down his device and joined in. The other two started out with annoyed looks as they tried to concentrate on their phones, but after a couple more minutes, they, too, put down their phones and participated. It was almost an odd concept for the modern world: People in close proximity conversing with each other!

As I sat in the back and observed the world around me for that thirty-minute ride, I noted that many drivers were either on phones or fiddling with something (e.g., looking in a direction other than out the windshield/windows), and every single passenger (front seats).... EVERY SINGLE ONE, was using a handheld device. Now, there weren't a lot of cars that I saw with passengers in them (probably seven or eight), but still. That's a sad state of affairs when we're so caught up in our distractions that we completely miss the world around us.

It's an alluring and slippery slope. Situational awareness must be at an all-time low.

Go to 0:48 of this episode of Reggie Perrin. It's a short fantasy sequence- but in my opinion it's dead on...

roadburner

If only this E46 was a ZHP...

stickguy

nice looking. but even with the low miles, 14,500 seems steep.

besides, it's defective. they forgot to put the moonroof in.

roadburner

I think $14,500 isn't too bad; if it had xenons and heated seats I'd be hard pressed to pass it up.

fintail

You're somewhat of a luddite, no?

I suspect being in AK helps - I bet coverage outside of the exact city center is spotty, and data is EDGE at best.

All of the tech does have drawbacks - distracted distant people, people "driving" with a phone in their hand (sometimes it must be half of the cars here - but with no public shaming and almost zero enforcement, that's what you get).

For the international roaming charges, I have T-Mobile - intl data costs nothing, roaming rates are quite low.

I think the "car play" universal style of infotainment will become a thing, too. It won't be free of course, but eventually google maps in cars, via phone, will be normal. I just hope it can be controlled via a wheel etc, as I don't want a touchscreen.

xwesx said:

Sandy,

I see you drank the Kool-Aid.

berri

Do you think physically holding a cell phone really makes that much difference than Bluetooth? Seems to me that either way, your head is not in the driving game while talking. I think the "hands free" laws are probably just feel good revenue producers. They can't really go after built in cell talk because drivers will revolt and the industry has put a lot of money into it. But I'm not convinced its really significantly safer than holding the phone. That's why there are quiet cockpit rules during the critical parts of flying.

corvette

xwesx said:

I'm truly at a loss to understand what motivates people to shell out $100+ / month basically forever for these devices. Those of you who embed yourselves in the modern technology craze, have you considered how much more you spend per month on these various tech "conveniences" than you spent, say, 10-15 years ago?

I used to spend $80-100/month with AT&T for cell service, but never used it that much. Now, I pay about $10-20 per month for Airvoice. Would pay about $35 per month for a package if I used more cell data. Unfortunately, the pay-per-use data means I don't often use Google Maps on the go. I have a Garmin with lifetime map updates for use in the car. Time Warner's basic internet service (2 megabit) is $15 per month. I don't have a landline or cable television.

By the way, I never realized the Garmin software stores all your old, outdated maps on your computer until you tell it to delete them. Freed up about 50 GB on my hard drive!

stever

The guy who I helped buy a local truck brought his Garmin over so I could update it. His Mac is too old and the old OS isn't compatible, with the latest Garmin Express, so I updated it with my desktop. Will have to look now at the old maps - guess both his and mine are both on that drive now.

We found some minor issues with his new truck driving around but nothing major. The intermittent 4WD switch was a concern. He played with it on our dirt road and the knob fell apart in his hand and turning the stem with his fingers worked fine. So we think he dodged a bullet on that one. $21dealer part, about half that on eBay. Just for a little ol' knob. He has a couple of junkyards to try next.

breld

Old hat to say as much, but I do pause now and then and reflect on how technology has changed things so much since I was a kid.

Change in the way you listen to music is one of the most significant things I think - I had a discussion with my 12 year-old the other day about vinyl records, and what it was like to listen to music "back in the day." You sat down and listened to an entire album - no skipping through songs, or just buying a single track. Liner notes, album art, etc.

I remember getting my first CD player in a car - skipped most of the time, but I thought it was pretty darn cool. Then the 6-CD changers hidden away in the trunk - genius! But having thousands of songs organized and easily accessible on a pocket-sized device? Holy Cow!

My 17 year-old stepdaughter loves her music and has taken to buying vinyl; we bought her a cheap record player for Christmas. So that's kinda cool.

There's basically a lot of instant gratification today - from instantly accessing music, to on-demand TV - remember when you planned your schedule around Thursday night NBC? My wife and I have a few shows we watch every week - I couldn't tell you what night they actually air on, since we simply either record it or watch it on-demand.

Despite feeling somewhat nostalgic, and feeling our kids our pretty spoiled, I quite enjoy all the technology we have today.

Michaell

breld said:

Old hat to say as much, but I do pause now and then and reflect on how technology has changed things so much since I was a kid.

Change in the way you listen to music is one of the most significant things I think - I had a discussion with my 12 year-old the other day about vinyl records, and what it was like to listen to music "back in the day." You sat down and listened to an entire album - no skipping through songs, or just buying a single track. Liner notes, album art, etc.

I remember getting my first CD player in a car - skipped most of the time, but I thought it was pretty darn cool. Then the 6-CD changers hidden away in the trunk - genius! But having thousands of songs organized and easily accessible on a pocket-sized device? Holy Cow!

My 17 year-old stepdaughter loves her music and has taken to buying vinyl; we bought her a cheap record player for Christmas. So that's kinda cool.

There's basically a lot of instant gratification today - from instantly accessing music, to on-demand TV - remember when you planned your schedule around Thursday night NBC? My wife and I have a few shows we watch every week - I couldn't tell you what night they actually air on, since we simply either record it or watch it on-demand.

Despite feeling somewhat nostalgic, and feeling our kids our pretty spoiled, I quite enjoy all the technology we have today.

Or waiting for the right song to play on your favorite AM radio station. And, if you had a cassette deck, hitting the "record" button at just the right moment to capture that song - but only if the DJ wasn't talking over the opening moments.

Yes, we've come a long way.

stever

Crux day - all our houseguests left today, and my friend with the "new" truck is off to his folks in Texas, about a 7 hour drive. If the truck makes it that far, then I figure I'm off the hook.

I did plan it right though - my wife went up to ABQ for the weekend to take a class and I'm without wheels, so I can't volunteer to drive out into the desert and rescue my bud if his transmission falls out.

Michaell

stever said:

Crux day - all our houseguests left today, and my friend with the "new" truck is off to his folks in Texas, about a 7 hour drive. If the truck makes it that far, then I figure I'm off the hook.

I did plan it right though - my wife went up to ABQ for the weekend to take a class and I'm without wheels, so I can't volunteer to drive out into the desert and rescue my bud if his transmission falls out.

Gee, I bet if you contact your Kia salesperson he might be inclined to let you have that Soul for an extended test drive. Perfect time to add to the fleet, when the wife is out of town.

stever

lol, and I could bike there too - it's all downhill from here.

The last contact I had from the dealer was from a sales manager. I have a feeling the green pea has moved on to something else now.

fintail

I do. I can call someone using voice recognition while keeping both hands virtually free, and looking at nothing - I just press a button on the steering wheel, and talk. People holding a phone are almost encouraged to look at the phone, play with the phone, and text. It's definitely more of a distraction, IMNSHO. Regarding head in the game, that was an issue long before mobile devices became common - people daydream, get caught up in music or passengers or roadside scenery, etc.

berri said:

Do you think physically holding a cell phone really makes that much difference than Bluetooth? Seems to me that either way, your head is not in the driving game while talking. I think the "hands free" laws are probably just feel good revenue producers. They can't really go after built in cell talk because drivers will revolt and the industry has put a lot of money into it. But I'm not convinced its really significantly safer than holding the phone. That's why there are quiet cockpit rules during the critical parts of flying.

stevedebi

sandman_6472 said:

Within a few years, I suspect most vehicles will be wifi'd and that'll level the playing field with navi systems being a thing of the past. Just rolling along with the times I guess. And at work, I notice everyone has some sort of smart phone and they use them, basically all the time. Very rare for a customer that I take home to even bother to talk with me as they are on their phones and punching numbers. But I definitely notice those folks who are driving and talking on their hand held devices, they just can't keep up with the flow of traffic for some reason...those who go through their vehicles system seem to drive just fine which saves us all. I did notice on my new AT&T cell that it wouldn't take any calls if I was traveling over 25 mph, some app did that, but since I need my phone while going from place to place, I had to shut that app down. My lead driver got pissed off at me because every call went straight to voice mail. Just thought that app was just a bit much...I'd rather be the one to decide to answer any call while driving!
Still love having a hand held device because of the time saver it is, having a mini computer at one's finger tips is a dream come true when used properly!

The Sandman

It won't make a difference if the vehicles have WiFi inside, if there is no connectivity outside. Unless they get external Internet via Satellite, if there is no cellular service, there is no Internet to pass on to the WiFi. I'm not sure I see satellite service being cheap enough to put in all cars, but who knows...

xwesx

fintail said:

You're somewhat of a luddite, no?

LOL No, not at all; I love technology. I'm just not willing to let it take over my life. If that classifies me as a Luddite, then those poor folk have come a LONG way!

stickguy

Let me fix that for you:

I'm just not willing to let it take over my life pay for it.

xwesx

fintail said:

I do. I can call someone using voice recognition while keeping both hands virtually free, and looking at nothing - I just press a button on the steering wheel, and talk. People holding a phone are almost encouraged to look at the phone, play with the phone, and text. It's definitely more of a distraction, IMNSHO. Regarding head in the game, that was an issue long before mobile devices became common - people daydream, get caught up in music or passengers or roadside scenery, etc.

Very much agreed. People argue that it is different than a passenger because the passenger can see what's going on in the car (and therefore shut the trap when something's going on), but with a person on speakers, the driver can easily tune them out (as I am known on *rare* occasion to do with my wife when I'm driving) or mute them. This is not to say that people won't be distracted by these things; they're just less likely to be critically distracted by them.

xwesx

stevedebi said:

It won't make a difference if the vehicles have WiFi inside, if there is no connectivity outside. Unless they get external Internet via Satellite, if there is no cellular service, there is no Internet to pass on to the WiFi. I'm not sure I see satellite service being cheap enough to put in all cars, but who knows...

It's a rare thing to be without service on any major highway in the US these days. Heck, even much of the Alaskan road has cell coverage now. Not data so much, but more and more.

Michaell

xwesx said:

stevedebi said:

It won't make a difference if the vehicles have WiFi inside, if there is no connectivity outside. Unless they get external Internet via Satellite, if there is no cellular service, there is no Internet to pass on to the WiFi. I'm not sure I see satellite service being cheap enough to put in all cars, but who knows...

It's a rare thing to be without service on any major highway in the US these days. Heck, even much of the Alaskan road has cell coverage now. Not data so much, but more and more.

The last time I drove I-70 from Colorado to CA (summer 2012) there was a pretty healthy stretch in Eastern Utah where there was no cell service. Of course, there is a 100+ mile stretch where there is no services at all - no gas, nothing.

breld

Speaking safety - my Mazda won't allow any alphanumeric input for the navigation function when the car is in motion. I understand the thought behind it, but there has been more than one occasion when that has forced me to simply pick up my iPhone and input the address and let it do the navigating.

I'd feel much safer if I could simply use the rotary dial in the center console to enter the address on the screen, which is well designed and positioned so as to keep my eyes up.

Silly Mazda.

berri

Fin, you make a good point about being able to keep eyes on the road with hands free, provided the system works well and you don't have to end up fighting with it. But I can't begin to keep count of the number of cars I've been behind sitting still at a green light while the drivers lips appear to be moving. Now maybe that driver is just a lip syncher pretending he/she is a famous rock or country artist on stage, but I never seem to see the flailing head or air guitar motions that I assume would go with that

ab348

stevedebi said:

It won't make a difference if the vehicles have WiFi inside, if there is no connectivity outside. Unless they get external Internet via Satellite, if there is no cellular service, there is no Internet to pass on to the WiFi. I'm not sure I see satellite service being cheap enough to put in all cars, but who knows...

Up here in Canada, cellular service is more expensive than what it typically is in the US from what I understand. My niece bought a GMC Terrain with GM's built-in WiFi. But since you need an internet connection, it used her cellphone data plan. After the first month, the bill came in and she was stunned. She has 2 kids, 9 and 11, both with various devices along with her own, all of which tapped into that one pipeline. The kids were downloading games, music, etc as they all like to do. I gather the bill for data was in the hundreds of dollars that first month, after her data plan got quickly used up.

ab348

fintail said:

I do. I can call someone using voice recognition while keeping both hands virtually free, and looking at nothing - I just press a button on the steering wheel, and talk. People holding a phone are almost encouraged to look at the phone, play with the phone, and text. It's definitely more of a distraction, IMNSHO. Regarding head in the game, that was an issue long before mobile devices became common - people daydream, get caught up in music or passengers or roadside scenery, etc.

I have done a bit of what you describe using voice dialing and I still find talking on the phone hands-free distracting. My mind focuses on what I'm saying more than what I'm seeing or doing. But you are right, in some ways it isn't much different from years ago when people were playing with the radio, heat/AC controls, etc.

For me the scariest thing was a driver texting. A few years ago I was on the road with my assistant, who was driving, and she texted constantly while she did. Scared me half to death.

Sandman6472

We had the bluetooth discussion at work today as we got behind a few drivers who were on their cells and driving under the speed limit, so far under that traffic was backing up and others were doing crazy stuff to get around them. I think if they had bluetooth, they would be driving more normally and not causing a safety hazard. Think it's easier to drive normally without holding ones phone in their left hand and driving the car with their right, and bluetooth solves this issue nicely.

The Sandman

stickguy

OK, I really, really, really like this one. For a 22K mile 2013, price seems strong. I'm guessing MSRP was close to 60K?

http://www.royaleasing.com/detail-2013-mercedes~benz-e~class-4dr_sedan_e350_sport_4matic_asterisk_ltd_avail_asterisk_-used-13531384.html

though for 1/2 the price, this is not a bad looking rig.

http://www.royaleasing.com/detail-2013-mercedes~benz-e~class-4dr_sedan_e350_sport_4matic_asterisk_ltd_avail_asterisk_-used-13531384.html

stickguy

So, I started thinking again (always a dangerous state of affairs). Depending on how a few things go though the summer, I may "upgrade" my princess before next semester, and get her something newer (or new) to take back to school for sophomore year.

The Volvo will have about 111k by the time it arrives back home in a few weeks. I really don't think I would try to stretch it through 3 more years of 450 mile each way runs to school. Though it has done surprisingly well so far, it ain't no spring chicken!

so my latest plan, until I come up with a better one, is sell the Volvo, use money to pay off the loan on the RDX (2 years and change left on that), and grab one of the "hey it's August and we got way too many 15s left so let's offer distress price leases" on something small to midsize, modestly equipped but with the important features, so the $200 range.

the logic (besides getting a new car, though it won't be for me, so who cares!) is twofold. First, monthly cashflow will improve by ~$225+. Which can come in handy. 2nd, no need to worry about sending her off on the hell ride that is I95 from Philly to Richmond in an older car. Or the potential for something to happen to it 8 hours from here.

Plus, a 36 month lease will take us a few months past graduation. so won't have to deal with anything auto related other than a few oil changes. And she can run around anywhere over that time (summers, breaks).

also in favor of this is that next year, she will be parking in a lot right in front of her building. This year she had to park in a remote lot for freshman, off in the fringes of campus. So car should be safer.

so, assuming all the $ factors work out, we could be having some fine father-daughter bonding this summer (she actually likes to go looking as a hobby. Apple, tree!). Hardest part might be narrowing down the options!

oh, the other option was a newer car to buy (say a 2012 with 30-40K on it). But I would end up with higher payments, payments on a 7 YO car by the end, and still have potential for used car issues. But that is still an option.

stickguy

Forgot to add, maybe she was switched at birth with the Brelds. Accounting major, who likes to go car shopping!

xwesx

stickguy said:

Forgot to add, maybe she was switched at birth with the Brelds. Accounting major, who likes to go car shopping!

Hah! I love this discussion. It makes me feel so incredibly sane!!!!

ab348

I was watching CBS last night and saw an ad for Ford flogging F-150s. I am not sure if it was a network ad or local, though no dealers were named so it was a corporate ad from Ford for sure. I was sort of half-paying attention when they mentioned up to $7250 in discounts, then I realized they were talking about 2014 F-150s. This is May 2015. How many 2014 F-150s are still out there on dealer lots? Did Ford run the plants overtime last fall in anticipation of trouble getting the aluminum 2015 model built? They surely can't be making much on them with discounts like that.

js06gv

ab348 said:

stevedebi said:

It won't make a difference if the vehicles have WiFi inside, if there is no connectivity outside. Unless they get external Internet via Satellite, if there is no cellular service, there is no Internet to pass on to the WiFi. I'm not sure I see satellite service being cheap enough to put in all cars, but who knows...

Up here in Canada, cellular service is more expensive than what it typically is in the US from what I understand. My niece bought a GMC Terrain with GM's built-in WiFi. But since you need an internet connection, it used her cellphone data plan. After the first month, the bill came in and she was stunned. She has 2 kids, 9 and 11, both with various devices along with her own, all of which tapped into that one pipeline. The kids were downloading games, music, etc as they all like to do. I gather the bill for data was in the hundreds of dollars that first month, after her data plan got quickly used up.

That's the part I don't understand with GMs wifi feature. If all the downloading is going to be tied to a user's own data plan, just as it would in any other car WITHOUT wifi, then just what is the point of having wifi in the car to begin with? I must be missing something.

ab348

js06gv said:

That's the part I don't understand with GMs wifi feature. If all the downloading is going to be tied to a user's own data plan, just as it would in any other car WITHOUT wifi, then just what is the point of having wifi in the car to begin with? I must be missing something.

I'm not totally sure. When I was buying the ATS, the salesguy explained that the new car WiFi could either use your own existing cellular data plan or you could buy connectivity through OnStar. I doubt that would be cheap either. As for having WiFi in the car, it works for things like an iPad that may not have a cell connection available depending on what kind was purchased. I think that is what her kids were using to rack up the big bill.

stever

We buy data as needed with an iPad3 and use it as a hotspot. A few years ago we let a family member connect with a wifi iPad1 but neglected to tell them just to surf. They updated a bunch of apps and sucked off a lot of data. At least that plan just runs out - when the data (or month) is gone, you're done.

Michaell

ab348 said:

I was watching CBS last night and saw an ad for Ford flogging F-150s. I am not sure if it was a network ad or local, though no dealers were named so it was a corporate ad from Ford for sure. I was sort of half-paying attention when they mentioned up to $7250 in discounts, then I realized they were talking about 2014 F-150s. This is May 2015. How many 2014 F-150s are still out there on dealer lots? Did Ford run the plants overtime last fall in anticipation of trouble getting the aluminum 2015 model built? They surely can't be making much on them with discounts like that.

I popped by my local Ford dealer a week or so ago to see if they had any Fiesta ST's on the lot - they didn't.

But boy, if you wanted a 2014 F-150, they had you covered. Lots of inventory still lying around.

And, I'm sure there is still a bit of profit even after the big discount.

henryn

ab348 said:

I was watching CBS last night and saw an ad for Ford flogging F-150s. I am not sure if it was a network ad or local, though no dealers were named so it was a corporate ad from Ford for sure. I was sort of half-paying attention when they mentioned up to $7250 in discounts, then I realized they were talking about 2014 F-150s. This is May 2015. How many 2014 F-150s are still out there on dealer lots? Did Ford run the plants overtime last fall in anticipation of trouble getting the aluminum 2015 model built? They surely can't be making much on them with discounts like that.

The 2015 F150s weren’t actually available at the Ford dealers until very late last year (late November, early December time frame). And then in only very limited numbers. The 2015s, as I understand it, were being built in a new plant, on a new assembly line (aluminum body being a really major change). So the old plant / old assembly line(s) were kept running, churning out 2014s. The closest dealer to me has 49 2015s, and 33 2014s.

The next closest Ford dealer has 35 2015s, and 38 2014s. So yes, they have a LOT of 2014s to clear out. And the 2016s will be here in … what? September? Only 4 months away.

If the deals get good enough, I may trade up my 2013. (smile)