Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

xwesx

qbrozen said:

I think we may have to deal with this headlight issue until then. Of course, I'd also want the typical deep Chrysler discount, so it may take even longer.

Just get a set of 55W (or equivalent, e.g., legal low-beam driving lights) lamps and mount them with a toggle switch on the dash. That way, if your lights fail, you can just switch on the auxiliaries and be in good shape! If you do get the situation sorted out (later), you could always wire them into the low beam circuit so that they work in tandem with your primary lights.

stever

Maybe they'll call the Dodge a Routan.

xwesx

henryn said:

The Odyssey (and Sienna) are really WIDE bodies these days.

One of my employees just bought a new Sienna van (AWD). It was shocked at how huge that beast is (I park directly next to her every day), but it sure is a nice van!

nyccarguy

@xwesx - a friend of ours has a Sienna & constantly tells us how it is too big.  I think they are exceptionally nice minivans.  Not cheap, but not too far away from having a Lexus emblem on the hood either.

rayainsw

My ex-wife bought a Sienna van [ AWD ] last Fall.
I doubt I will ever be in the market, but I agree that
it is a very nice van...
- Ray
Too big, too tall, and not quick enough for me -
but seems to work really well for her !

Michaell

nyccarguy said:

@xwesx - a friend of ours has a Sienna & constantly tells us how it is too big.  I think they are exceptionally nice minivans.  Not cheap, but not too far away from having a Lexus emblem on the hood either.

Not sure that the moniker "minivan" really applies anymore. The new breed are probably just as big as the old body-on-frame vans from the 70's and 80's.

stickguy

Yeah. No mini involved.

I seem to recall reading that the Mazda 5 was about the same size as the original caravan.

And to me, the last MPV (sliding door version) was a perfect size.

ab348

Michaell said:

Not sure that the moniker "minivan" really applies anymore. The new breed are probably just as big as the old body-on-frame vans from the 70's and 80's.

Well, they are slightly smaller than a 5-ton moving van...

iluvmysephia1

What makes sense to me rarely makes sense to the automakers though.

Try being an automaker, stever. Imagine how Mr. and Mrs. Automaker feel about things?

stever

We need custom ordering with a "quick" turnaround - none of this 12 week stuff.

Kills me that you can get more variety in options and colors in the much smaller Canadian market for what's essentially the same car here.

I want all the tech and safety with small wheels and a manual transmission and heated/vented cloth seats. Talk about a unicorn, lol.

xwesx

Michaell said:

Not sure that the moniker "minivan" really applies anymore. The new breed are probably just as big as the old body-on-frame vans from the 70's and 80's.

I'm sure that's true for the most part. I suspect that the Sienna is as long and wide as my 1969 Econoline, but It is definitely not as tall, nor does it have as much interior space. Well, it might come close on that last count, as my van has a much taller floor than a Sienna.

corvette

stever said:

Maybe they'll call the Dodge a Routan.

I always said the VW Routan should've been called the VW Voyager. 

ab348

stever said:

Kills me that you can get more variety in options and colors in the much smaller Canadian market for what's essentially the same car here.

That's usually not the case, just the opposite in fact. I posted the other day about my experience "building" various BMWs on the Canadian version of their website and being given virtually zero choices on interior and paint colors compared to the US. The same had been true with VW as well for years, though it may have changed recently; I notice you are no longer required to take a black interior in VW Golfs and Jettas here as used to be the case. Domestic makes are almost always the same in the US and Canada.

stever

>I always said the VW Routan should've been called the VW Voyager.

That would have made a lot more sense @corvette. I still have fond memories of my '89 Voyager, although I could have skipped the three head gasket repairs and another 40 or 50 horses would have been nice. But even with one slider, it was really a handy setup and designed as a 5 seater from the get-go. It was wider than the Mazda5, or felt wider inside.

Even compared to our '99 Quest, the Grand Caravan feels like a moving van.

@ab348, the grass is always greener. Sure seems like the color choice is better up your way. Had to say for certain, but it looks like the Caribbean Blue is available on the top of the line Soul up there. Can't tell if the two-toned leather is available though.

I don't think we can get power folding side mirrors either or the cooling glovebox. Maybe I should import one.

ab348

stever said:

@ab348, the grass is always greener. Sure seems like the color choice is better up your way. Had to say for certain, but it looks like the Caribbean Blue is available on the top of the line Soul up there. Can't tell if the two-toned leather is available though.

I don't think we can get power folding side mirrors either or the cooling glovebox. Maybe I should import one.

I was unfamiliar with the Soul, so I looked at them on both the Canadian and US websites. The offerings are very different on the Soul depending on whether you are in Canada or the US. It appears we have 7 (!) different Soul models available here - for reasons only Kia can explain. The US seems to have 3 models. None of them use the same terminology as the Canadian ones, so it is hard to compare them. And while there may be a paint color choice not available in the US, it looks like we are given the choice of a black interior or a black interior, while the US market actually has some color choices inside. So go figure.

imidazol97

stever said:

I want all the tech and safety with small wheels and a manual transmission and heated/vented cloth seats. Talk about a unicorn, lol.

Our 14 Malibu has th safety options with no hole in the roof. I also avoided the 19-inch rims by
not getting an LTZ. But couldn't get right hand passenger power seat. Got the 18-inch rims instead of 19.
Would have preferred 17-inch rims.
But did get the color my wife wanted.

Now, as I read it, I can't get a new Malibu with safety features unless I get an LTZ and a useless hole in the roof. If I want wind, I'll just roll down a window. Why do I need a hole-in-the-roof? I like having the extra 2 inches of headroom.

carnaught

berri said:

I thought the new Pacifica was introduced as a Chrysler? Either way, I also heard that they will keep the old minivan as well for now (whichever name they retain). Not clear if for general sale or just to fleets though?

All they have to do is to recycle the old one with the name"Classic" after it, and voila, they're good to go.

stickguy

just read the latest motor trend, and it had a preview of the Pacifica. It isn't smaller, that for sure. Actually an extra 10 cubes inside, up to 200! longer wheelbase and wider track I think too. Definitely more stylish design (though the T&C currently sets the bottom bar on that).

stickguy

so, read the CR auto issue today. Read the whole summary of every model. And there were surprisingly few that really got me excited. maybe just too much negativity.

Maybe I should just get a 2 series, and throw caution to the wind. Won't need a rear seat by the time I am getting my next ride!

The new Jag XE might be kind of fun too. Who knows!

berri

Maybe its just part of getting older, but for the past couple of years I'm not getting all that excited by many of the vehicles out there. Too often they seem either look-a-like or bizarre. I used to trade more frequently. On the bright side, its saving me some dollars I suppose. Meanwhile, I think maybe the car companies need to take their stylists on a history trip back to the 60's when cars looked clean and different from each other. But WTH, I'll just roll with it and eventually get a new one of something.

stickguy

Need to sit in a 2 series some day. See how it fits. I just spec'ed one out. Modestly equipped, but minimum basics (premium, cold weather, driver assistance and a couple other doodads) and it just snuck under 40K. And that was for a 228i RWD, so add another 2K if you need AWD for some reason.

berri

I dunno - I'm well over 6ft tall

roadburner

nyccarguy said:

http://www.dodge.com/hostc/getWindowStickerPdf.do?vin=2C3CDXCT5FH857861

2015 Charger R/T
Black/Black
5.7L V8 - 8 Speed Auto - RWD
Super Track Pack

I'd rather have that car than any new BMW 5er save the M5...

stever

stickguy said:

just read the latest motor trend, and it had a preview of the Pacifica. It isn't smaller, that for sure. Actually an extra 10 cubes inside, up to 200! longer wheelbase and wider track I think too. Definitely more stylish design (though the T&C currently sets the bottom bar on that).

Shoot, I was hoping that model was going to be the turning point for massiveness in minivans.

Michaell

Help sought for a tall driver:

http://forums.edmunds.com/discussion/39778/general/x/cars-today-are-not-tall-people-friendly#latest

suydam

One year ago today we bought our Buick Encore. I had never owned a GM car before. So far it has exceeded my expectations. I get better gas mileage than the EPA estimates and the car is a joy to drive. For me it is the perfect size. I have always preferred smaller cars but for many years family needs dictated midsized or minivan type vehicles. Now it's mostly my spouse and me and our Lab. I love its handling, seat height, and comfort. We got the FWD which has performed quite well in all weather. One of the most surprising features has been its cargo capacity. You can fit a lot in this small package!

We did not pay a lot for it and it feels like a very luxe car. For a small car it is very quiet which I especially appreciate. Love the backup cam and blind spot safety features. It has been back to the dealer once for an oil change and will probably be back for another in a month or so, both free maintenance items. It was a spur of the moment purchase -- our old Vibe needed one repair too many -- and it really turned out well. This is not a vehicle I feel I settled for. The car is Carbon Black Metallic which I thought I would not like but it does not show dirt the way I feared and in fact looks really sharp. I have the Convenience package with upgraded sound and sunroof which is exactly the right package for our needs/wants. Oh and the dog likes it too.

Owning the Encore has rekindled my love of smaller cars. I'm really considering letting go of our Honda Accord and getting a Mazda 3. We shall see!

stickguy

The upcoming Buick Envision looks like a really nice package too. If I can get over the made in China issue!

nyccarguy

@suydam - I'm glad you are happy with the encore a year later.  Being the CCBA forum, I will advocate for you ditching the Accord.  Not because it is a bad car, but for another punch!

Mr_Shiftright

Here's a new 2016 Ferrari 488 GTB you can get cheap out of California. Only 500 miles on it! Was the last reported conversation in the cockpit "Watch This!"?

berri

Frankly, I think the Accord has become just another Fusion or Malibu, but noisier. Honda quality has been declining lately and they threw out their wishbone suspension identity, as well as moving to CVT trannies. I think the Ford and GM products are more comfortable, so I don't see what Honda is bringing to the table anymore. Same goes for Nissan really.

Michaell

berri said:

Frankly, I think the Accord has become just another Fusion or Malibu, but noisier. Honda quality has been declining lately and they threw out their wishbone suspension identity, as well as moving to CVT trannies. I think the Ford and GM products are more comfortable, so I don't see what Honda is bringing to the table anymore. Same goes for Nissan really.

I'd agree with you .. most of the mid-size sedans are pretty much interchangeable now. I looked at the Malibu "Limited" a few weeks ago and found it to be just as nice as any Accord.

But, I think the Accord is still relying on its reputation as bulletproof transportation, with a sporty bent, for a lot of it's sales.

suydam

I disagree. I actually love the Accord. It's not noisy at all and drives like a dream. Gets excellent fuel economy and the CVT is virtually invisible. It's just that it's a little too big for my needs now.

henryn

Michaell said:

berri said:

Frankly, I think the Accord has become just another Fusion or Malibu, but noisier. Honda quality has been declining lately and they threw out their wishbone suspension identity, as well as moving to CVT trannies. I think the Ford and GM products are more comfortable, so I don't see what Honda is bringing to the table anymore. Same goes for Nissan really.

I'd agree with you .. most of the mid-size sedans are pretty much interchangeable now. I looked at the Malibu "Limited" a few weeks ago and found it to be just as nice as any Accord.

But, I think the Accord is still relying on its reputation as bulletproof transportation, with a sporty bent, for a lot of it's sales.

I would also add, "Incredible resale value!"

henryn

imidazol97 said:

stever said:

I want all the tech and safety with small wheels and a manual transmission and heated/vented cloth seats. Talk about a unicorn, lol.

Our 14 Malibu has th safety options with no hole in the roof. I also avoided the 19-inch rims by
not getting an LTZ. But couldn't get right hand passenger power seat. Got the 18-inch rims instead of 19.
Would have preferred 17-inch rims.
But did get the color my wife wanted.

Now, as I read it, I can't get a new Malibu with safety features unless I get an LTZ and a useless hole in the roof. If I want wind, I'll just roll down a window. Why do I need a hole-in-the-roof? I like having the extra 2 inches of headroom.

+1 here

Plus for me, it's not a matter of "like having the extra 2 inches of headroom", it's more like "must have".

andres3

british_rover said:

andres3 said:

breld said:

breld said:

After several weeks of no interest in the A3, I had two showings today and the second person is going to buy it. Being a Sunday, he didn't have funds with him, so we're meeting back up tomorrow. He's a life-long Audi enthusiast, so he knew the product well and asked a lot of relevant questions. Fortunately, since we put a decent amount of money into it recently, I had good answers for him.

Just to get a baseline, I got a Carmax offer last night for $7,500; a separate dealership solicitation yielded $8,000, and we agreed on a price of $9,750 for the private sale. So, definitely worth the little time and effort to sell it ourselves.

Happy to have the two sales (the ZHP and now the A3) complete.

By the way, not surprisingly, these figures were exactly as @qbrozen had estimated. He figured $7-8k on trade and around $10k on private sale. Thanks Q!

I'm convinced Carmax has an axe to grind against buying and selling Audi's. They are always low. They obviously hope to only buy and sell Toyota's and Honda's as they always offer top dollar on those brands.

Used Audis, especially out of warranty, are some of the scariest cars for a dealer to try and sell.

Huge depreciation if you can't retail it in your turn and outrageous repair bills if one brakes during your 60 day warranty after you sell it.

Last year we sold an 2011 Audi A5 with 45,000 miles for roughly $25,500. The middle of the road extended warranty from CNA on that Audi was roughly $7,500 for a three year 36,000 mile warranty with $200 deductible.

I get scared to present a warranty like that to someone but you have to do. You have to offer a warranty to everyone.

Who is CNA? I would think I could start as business with huge profit margins undercutting their warranty price by 50% easily. Of course, a lot depends on the maintenance history of the vehicle. But I could increase or decrease my undercutting based on proven maintenance history.

andres3

roadburner said:

stever said:

This is sad:

CarMax salesman killed when Corvette crashes in test drive; driver arrested (latimes.com)

In Louisville in 2009 years ago a salesman and some idiot were testing a Challenger SRT8; the guy was doing 100 in a 45 when a Taurus pulled out in front of them- both occupants of the Taurus were killed. The driver was found guilty on two counts of 2nd degree manslaughter.

Sounds like a raw deal for all involved. "Pulled out in front of them" makes it sound like the guy just needed a better lawyer as he wasn't at-fault in the accident; then again, who knows what the conditions on the road were like that day.

roadburner

andres3 said:

Sounds like a raw deal for all involved. "Pulled out in front of them" makes it sound like the guy just needed a better lawyer as he wasn't at-fault in the accident; then again, who knows what the conditions on the road were like that day.

Thw weather was perfect, and the Defense maintained that the Taurus ran the stop sine. Problem was, the black box in the Challenger showed that the car was going at least 100 mph a couple of seconds before the crash. And anyway, you can't argue comparative negligence in a criminal case.

andres3

qbrozen said:

tjc78 said:

What do you have 27k miles or so?  It may have changed but lemon law protection ends at 24k miles. 

I have read some conflicting info, but I am led to believe that as long as the problem first developed under 24k, you are good to go. This has been ongoing since... well, I forget, but well under 24k. I think the first time may have been as low as 12k or 15k.

How many Chrysler engineer's does it take to make a light bulb work? If they were Japanese Samurai , they would commit suicide to save face and honor.

nelsonf

Well, I just put my name on the waitlist for a BMW M2.

I originally was going to buy an M4 this Summer, but the M2 is a little smaller, a little lighter, and about 10 grand cheaper than the M4, and has about 90% of the performance.

I may end up with an M4 anyway, since apparently the M2 is limited production car, at least this year, and has long waiting lists.

We'll see...

stickguy

how much real world difference is there between an M235i and an M2?

andres3

henryn said:

A Town and Country is one of the vehicles that I could see myself owning. I do fit, which is rather difficult to find (headroom and kneeroom). And I know that every make and model has an occasional lemon (witness GG and his Cadillac woes). But ... I just seem to hear / read too many of those horror stories when it comes to Mopar.

I know that VW service departments had a bad reputation for many years, but there are good ones out there. Has anyone ever found a good Mopar service department? If so, I haven't heard about it.

I actually like the Odyssey better, and I also fit in it -- but it doesn't fit in my parking garage downtown nearly as well as the T&C. The Odyssey (and Sienna) are really WIDE bodies these days.

My experience was that while the Dodge service departments were lackluster, but not terrible. It probably would be a "fight" to replace every part in the car every single time you brought it in (though advisable). It would be justified in a Mopar product; would have prevented re-visits every 3 or 4 months for something else or other. I will say they were bad at predicting the need for continual visits as I did have to go back every 3 or 4 months from something else (never the same thing at least). In hindsight I should have argued they need to replace every part every time I had to come in for warranty as "preventative" maintenance.

andres3

berri said:

Frankly, I think the Accord has become just another Fusion or Malibu, but noisier. Honda quality has been declining lately and they threw out their wishbone suspension identity, as well as moving to CVT trannies. I think the Ford and GM products are more comfortable, so I don't see what Honda is bringing to the table anymore. Same goes for Nissan really.

CR still tested the Accord very highly last I checked; not talking about reliability rating here. I've still yet to meet someone in person that wasn't happy about the reliability and durability of their Honda. I hate CVT's, but the Accord's seemed superior to others I've driven. I bet the V6 Accord is downright quick.

berri

There are certainly many loyal Honda buyers out there. I've owned three of them myself. But if you keep taking away what makes Honda's unique, let quality drop off, keep adding more tiny buttons and touch screen that they don't care for and keep having embarrassing new product launch issues, eventually that high resale may go away. Or how about Honda Lane Watch instead of lane traffic warning indicators in the side mirrors, except it only works for one side of the vehicle? Remember, there was a time when Chevy Impala and Olds Cutlass had the same kind of buyer loyalty and resale retention. Seriously, I hope Honda leadership is embarrassed and gets their act back together.

nelsonf

stickguy said:

how much real world difference is there between an M235i and an M2?

365 HP vs. 320, 369 lb. ft of torque vs. 330. 0 to 60 is 4.2 vs. 4.6. Real world difference? Probably not much for daily use. I think you'd really see the difference on track days. This would be a weekend/Summer/ track day car for me.

roadburner

nelsonf said:

365 HP vs. 320, 369 lb. ft of torque vs. 330. 0 to 60 is 4.2 vs. 4.6. Real world difference? Probably not much for daily use. I think you'd really see the difference on track days. This would be a weekend/Summer/ track day car for me.

Today I was talking with a friend who is a BMW salesman at my local dealership. He's an ex-SCCA racer, HPDE instructor, and former owner of a 1 Series M Coupe. We were talking about the M235i and the M2 and he commented that he thought that adding the BMW M Performance LSD and stickier tires to the M235i would allow it to lap at times very close to the M2. Granted, the M2 has better brakes and cooling, but I suspect that with an M235i so modified the talent of the driver(s) would be a more significant factor than the cars themselves.

henryn

andres3 said:

berri said:

Frankly, I think the Accord has become just another Fusion or Malibu, but noisier. Honda quality has been declining lately and they threw out their wishbone suspension identity, as well as moving to CVT trannies. I think the Ford and GM products are more comfortable, so I don't see what Honda is bringing to the table anymore. Same goes for Nissan really.

CR still tested the Accord very highly last I checked; not talking about reliability rating here. I've still yet to meet someone in person that wasn't happy about the reliability and durability of their Honda. I hate CVT's, but the Accord's seemed superior to others I've driven. I bet the V6 Accord is downright quick.

Yes and no (to the "downright quick" comment). The answer to that depends on how you define "quick". Myself, I look for two things. Number one, I like a very responsive throttle. The ability to jump into a hole in traffic on very short notice. This usually requires torque - think a big beefy V8, or a turbo charged engine with little to no turbo lag.

I also like the ability to come up a freeway on ramp and accelerate from 20 to 70 mph in a very short distance / span of time.

The V6 Accord is quite good at the second example, not nearly so good at the first. The twin turbo V6 in my F150 is VERY good at both. The turbo 4 (2.0T) in my old 2008 Passat was very good at both, with just a smidgin of turbo lag.

With the V6 Accord, when you want to punch it and hit a hole in traffic, you have to wait for the transmission to downshift (or whatever it is a CVT does), and then for the revs to build up. This is where a standard transmission and an accomplished driver will shine -- downshift from 4th to 2nd while blipping the throttle and hammer it!

stickguy

the V6 accord has a normal 6 speed AT. CVT only on the 4.

I consider it quick. My RDX, with the same powertrain, has no problem taking off from a light or hitting a hole!

tjc78

I'll never understand the CVT.  I wouldn't buy a car with one. What does it do better than a traditional auto?  They must be cheaper to manufacture, or have a FE savings otherwise they wouldn't be using them. 

suydam

Significant fuel savings. The Honda CVT is very smooth. I love everything about my Honda Accord except its size. No quality issues in 3 years which mirrors its stellar reliability ratings. Great fuel economy. Very smooth. Not as wallowy as the Camry which I like. It's a great road trip car. There are no "tiny buttons". I know reviewers don't like the screen but I don't have any problems with it. And the right turn camera is very handy changing lanes. If we weren't moving I would keep it a long time.

carnaught

FWIW, Mrs. Carnaught's Hybrid Accord has been bulletproof, and 50 mpg. even at today's fuel prices, is amazing.