Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

nelsonf

roadburner said:

nelsonf said:

365 HP vs. 320, 369 lb. ft of torque vs. 330. 0 to 60 is 4.2 vs. 4.6. Real world difference? Probably not much for daily use. I think you'd really see the difference on track days. This would be a weekend/Summer/ track day car for me.

Today I was talking with a friend who is a BMW salesman at my local dealership. He's an ex-SCCA racer, HPDE instructor, and former owner of a 1 Series M Coupe. We were talking about the M235i and the M2 and he commented that he thought that adding the BMW M Performance LSD and stickier tires to the M235i would allow it to lap at times very close to the M2. Granted, the M2 has better brakes and cooling, but I suspect that with an M235i so modified the talent of the driver(s) would be a more significant factor than the cars themselves.

Definitely worth thinking about, thanks for the info!

roadburner

nelsonf said:

Definitely worth thinking about, thanks for the info!

Don't get me wrong, all things being equal I'd go for the M2, but in my case I found a CPO M235i at an attractive price that will let me add the LSD and tires without breaking my budget. At almost a month in I have to say the 2er ranks up there with my E24 M6, E28 535is, and 318ti Club Sport as one of the most entertaining BMWs I have owned.

graphicguy

C&D April issue (just out in digital format) actually has a review of the M2. Their conclusion? Buy the M2 over the M4 and pocket over $14K. Still like the M235i xDrive 'vert I saw at the recent Cincinnati Auto Show. Nice 4 season sports car.

I still think any Accord or TLX tops the drive and reliability you can get for the dollar. They're just really good cars, that drive nicely, that are as reliable as a hammer, with great resale.

slorenzen

"I still think any Accord or TLX tops the drive and reliability you can get for the dollar. They're just really good cars, that drive nicely, that are as reliable as a hammer, with great resale."

Wife's Accord is a 2004 V6 EX, just hit 100k.

STILL drives just as it did when new.

Although 2 weeks after we bought it (new), it got recalled for an extra cooling line to 2nd gear on the automatic transmission. Didn't give me warm fuzzies, but it's been fine.

roadburner

As a friend of mine says, you can't compare car stats like Pokemon cards to determine which one is best, but I find it interesting that in C&D's own tests the M235i with the 8HP45 is only 0.1 second slower in the 0-60 run, and just 0.2 seconds behind in the quarter mile. From 80 mph up the M2 does pull away. Stopping distance from 70 is a wash. The M2 has a considerable advantage on the skidpad- 0.99 g versus 0.94 for the M235i. I think at least some of the difference is due to the M2's larger tires as well as its mechanical LSD.

fintail

I'd pick the M2, better looking.

qbrozen

So, van is still in the shop. Service advisor tells me they are waiting for Chrysler to tell them how to fix the problem. SIGH!

nyccarguy

qbrozen said:

So, van is still in the shop. Service advisor tells me they are waiting for Chrysler to tell them how to fix the problem. SIGH!

You have a loaner to mile up at least?

stickguy

so, stopped at the MB dealer today (have never been in their new palace before). Even got the wife to come in and test sit with me. managed to keep the sales people at bay, though they were very friendly. pretty busy too though it was middle of Saturday afternoon.

sat in GLA (she liked it), M<L (too big for her) and CLA, C and E class sedans. C class hits the sweet spot IMO, but the E does have great visibility.

and of course, we walked by (sitting along the sidewalk on the way out) "my" car (basically exactly what I would spec out). Gorgeous lunar blue C300. They don't have it listed with details yet (that place seems to have a terrible online inventory), but I speced out basically the same car, and came to within $60 of MSRP. Has the bare minimum required stuff (BLIS, pano roof, heated seats, BU camera, XM). And a real rarity it seems up here, the 17" wheels with some sidewall (225/50-17)! This car, 2 years from now off lease, will get a long look.

https://www.mbusa.com/mercedes/vehicles/build/class-C/model-C300W4#tab=tab-summary

fintail

Those luxury trim cars are uncommon compared to the "sport" cars, I bet at least a 2:10 ratio if not lower. They tend to have the smaller wheels. Luxury trim E are even rarer.

stickguy said:

and of course, we walked by (sitting along the sidewalk on the way out) "my" car (basically exactly what I would spec out). Gorgeous lunar blue C300. They don't have it listed with details yet (that place seems to have a terrible online inventory), but I speced out basically the same car, and came to within $60 of MSRP. Has the bare minimum required stuff (BLIS, pano roof, heated seats, BU camera, XM). And a real rarity it seems up here, the 17" wheels with some sidewall (225/50-17)! This car, 2 years from now off lease, will get a long look.

https://www.mbusa.com/mercedes/vehicles/build/class-C/model-C300W4#tab=tab-summary

ab348

fintail said:

Those luxury trim cars are uncommon compared to the "sport" cars, I bet at least a 2:10 ratio if not lower. They tend to have the smaller wheels. Luxury trim E are even rarer.

stickguy said:

and of course, we walked by (sitting along the sidewalk on the way out) "my" car (basically exactly what I would spec out). Gorgeous lunar blue C300. They don't have it listed with details yet (that place seems to have a terrible online inventory), but I speced out basically the same car, and came to within $60 of MSRP. Has the bare minimum required stuff (BLIS, pano roof, heated seats, BU camera, XM). And a real rarity it seems up here, the 17" wheels with some sidewall (225/50-17)! This car, 2 years from now off lease, will get a long look.

https://www.mbusa.com/mercedes/vehicles/build/class-C/model-C300W4#tab=tab-summary

Where is the gear lever on those? A stalk on the column?

corvette

Went by Discount Tire to get a defective TPMS sensor replaced this morning. They weren't busy when I got there for my appointment at 9:15 but there was a line all the way to the door when I left. $63 to fix, which I think is much cheaper than many local shops would charge. I'm always impressed with their courtesy, pricing, and the cleanliness of their shops.

fintail

Yep, column shift just like on the E.

ab348 said:

Where is the gear lever on those? A stalk on the column?

iluvmysephia1

Went by Discount Tire to get a defective TPMS sensor replaced this morning. They weren't busy when I got there for my appointment at 9:15 but there was a line all the way to the door when I left. $63 to fix, which I think is much cheaper than many local shops would charge. I'm always impressed with their courtesy, pricing, and the cleanliness of their shops.

Discount Tire is my favorite tire store - best experience to be had all-around.

qbrozen

nyccarguy said:

So, van is still in the shop. Service advisor tells me they are waiting for Chrysler to tell them how to fix the problem. SIGH!

You have a loaner to mile up at least?

Nope

corvette

qbrozen said:

nyccarguy said:

You have a loaner to mile up at least?

Nope

Nice. I guess they don't want a good CSI score when Chrysler calls you to ask how the warranty visit went.

nyccarguy

qbrozen said:

nyccarguy said:

qbrozen said:

So, van is still in the shop. Service advisor tells me they are waiting for Chrysler to tell them how to fix the problem. SIGH!

You have a loaner to mile up at least?

Nope

Ouch! Get it fixed & trade for a Sienna?

corvette

Washed the truck today and cleaned the paint with a clay bar. Man, does it have some swirl marks and paint chips when you look closely. I got a Porter Cable random orbital polisher for Christmas, so I'll polish the swirl marks the next time I clean it. Once it's polished, I'll try to touch up the paint chips. Couldn't have asked for better weather.

breld

nyccarguy said:

qbrozen said:

nyccarguy said:

qbrozen said:

So, van is still in the shop. Service advisor tells me they are waiting for Chrysler to tell them how to fix the problem. SIGH!

You have a loaner to mile up at least?

Nope

Ouch! Get it fixed & trade for a Sienna?

I'd fully endorse the Sedona as another alternative if you make a change but stick with a van.

Sandman6472

Drove a newish C300 yesterday and was surprised how much I really liked it. My Plan B of getting a CPO MB might just be the right plan in a few years from now, prefer the GLA right now but do like the CLA also. Small size is the key for me since I do drive solo most of the time.

The Sandman

stickguy

The new body style Sandy? I got my wife to sit in one. She really liked it.

carnaught

The CLA is great looking but really cheapoid in parts of the interior (front seat backs, for eg.). Also, they do not seem to be highly regarded except the AMG.

andres3

Anyone else see that despite CR finger wagging at Volkswagen they had to put up Audi as the number 1 all-around car maker? This is due to stellar road test scores, high safety, and high reliability which weighs heavily in their rankings.

nyccarguy

There are some crazy things going on in the automotive world right now.  Sales of Jeeps continue to surge even as the brand ranks at or near the bottom of consumer reports ranking.

andres3

nyccarguy said:

There are some crazy things going on in the automotive world right now.  Sales of Jeeps continue to surge even as the brand ranks at or near the bottom of consumer reports ranking.

A new generation of suckers is born every decade or 2. Just you wait. The financial penalties for building poor quality vehicles takes a long time to reach the bottom line.

suydam

I don't know. The Jeep brand is what they call a review-proof vehicle. People will buy them no matter what. 

Michaell

Our Outback celebrated its 1st anniversary with us yesterday. 11,800 miles, 2000 of which was our road trip to Sedona, AZ and back. Only 2 trips to the dealer, no issues, wife loves it to death. This one looks to be a keeper!

Mr_Shiftright

I'm glad to hear that Michael. I'm a bit embarrassed, as I sat down with a friend to go over her new car "needs" and we decided on a Subaru Crosstrek---which she loves, but right out of the gate (100 miles on the car) she's had two issues. Nothing major--the lift gate won't respond to the key fob and seat won't re-lock when brought up from being folded down. Those don't sound too serious, thankfully. I hope the car settles down. She still seems happy overall, and her dog loves it, and doesn't seem to care about the problems at all.

andres3

corvette said:

qbrozen said:

nyccarguy said:

You have a loaner to mile up at least?

Nope

Nice. I guess they don't want a good CSI score when Chrysler calls you to ask how the warranty visit went.

Not to defend Chrysler as I'd be last to defend them, but to be fair, how and when would it be reasonable for a non-luxury make to provide a "free" loaner.

I haven't expected a free loaner until I bought a luxury marquee that "advertises" such perks.

stickguy

My Honda dealers never had loaners. Acura and Volvo did, but I never actually took advantage.

ab348

stickguy said:

My Honda dealers never had loaners. Acura and Volvo did, but I never actually took advantage.

One thing I dislike about the dealer where I got my Cadillac is that they never have actual loaners. You are entitled to free courtesy transportation but their in-house shuttle is worse than useless and they are inconsistent in paying for taxis - sometimes they will and sometimes they won't. If neither of those is available they will put you into a rental car at no charge but you have to go through the usual routine of signing a bunch of forms, letting them photocopy your license, etc, and it just makes me uneasy.

fintail

My local MB dealer has a few shuttles for routine service or short jobs, and will give a loaner if it is an all day or multi day job. This is an outlet for slow selling models - Lexus dealer does it the same, which I think is how they utilized their pile of HS a few years ago. A lot of final run W204 C-class became loaners, along with E hybrids.

suydam

My Honda dealer has loaners. Even overnight -- a 50 mile drive -- if necessary.

suydam

Michaell said:

Our Outback celebrated its 1st anniversary with us yesterday. 11,800 miles, 2000 of which was our road trip to Sedona, AZ and back. Only 2 trips to the dealer, no issues, wife loves it to death. This one looks to be a keeper!

Congrats on your Outback's first year. It feels great to have a car you like that you can depend on.
Stever, I parked my Encore right next to a Soul the other day, and was surprised to notice that they have almost exactly the same dimensions! No wonder you've been cross-shopping both. Somehow the shape of the Soul makes it look larger than it is.

stever

Funny, I haven't looked at them side by side but in my mind, the Encore is taller.

iluvmysephia1

Well we ought ta do a side-by-side comparo. I do admire the Buick Encore, too.

suydam

Encore:
Height: 65"
Length: 168"
Width: 69.85"
Wheelbase: 100.6"

Soul:
Height: 63"
Length: 163"
Width: 71"
Wheelbase: 101.2"

Funny -- I thought the Soul was taller!

corvette

andres3 said:

nyccarguy said: You have a loaner to mile up at least?

Nope

Nice. I guess they don't want a good CSI score when Chrysler calls you to ask how the warranty visit went.

Not to defend Chrysler as I'd be last to defend them, but to be fair, how and when would it be reasonable for a non-luxury make to provide a "free" loaner. I haven't expected a free loaner until I bought a luxury marquee that "advertises" such perks.

I don't know where exactly you'd draw the line, but I think a repeat repair on a safety related issue would warrant a loner. 

ab348

fintail said:

My local MB dealer has a few shuttles for routine service or short jobs, and will give a loaner if it is an all day or multi day job. This is an outlet for slow selling models - Lexus dealer does it the same, which I think is how they utilized their pile of HS a few years ago. A lot of final run W204 C-class became loaners, along with E hybrids.

I get the sense that my dealer has converted all their loaners into in-house "rental cars" so they can bill the cost back to GM. In the past they used Budget, but the last time it was all done at the service desk and I didn't recognize the name of the forms.

stickguy

our Volvo dealer has loaners. And that basically becomes their used car supply. They have a good 10+ 2015 S60s listed, with about 5K miles on them, that are clearly labeled as being service loaners.

tjc78

andres3 said:

corvette said:

qbrozen said:

nyccarguy said:

You have a loaner to mile up at least?

Nope

Nice. I guess they don't want a good CSI score when Chrysler calls you to ask how the warranty visit went.

Not to defend Chrysler as I'd be last to defend them, but to be fair, how and when would it be reasonable for a non-luxury make to provide a "free" loaner.

I haven't expected a free loaner until I bought a luxury marquee that "advertises" such perks.

I've never had a problem getting a loaner with any make I've owned if the repairs take longer than a day.

tjc78

andres3 said:

corvette said:

qbrozen said:

nyccarguy said:

You have a loaner to mile up at least?

Nope

Nice. I guess they don't want a good CSI score when Chrysler calls you to ask how the warranty visit went.

Not to defend Chrysler as I'd be last to defend them, but to be fair, how and when would it be reasonable for a non-luxury make to provide a "free" loaner.

I haven't expected a free loaner until I bought a luxury marquee that "advertises" such perks.

I've never had a problem getting a loaner with any make I've owned if the repairs take longer than a day.

Sandman6472

Sat in a new green HR-V today for about 30 minutes, front and back, since we had some downtime waiting at the Honda store. Felt really comfortable all around, so sitting in the rear seats for adults isn't the penalty box by any stretch. Honestly, this is the only vehicle I have any interest now outside of the German makes besides the Buick Encore. No other domestic or foreign vehicle really floats my boat right now except possibly the new Elantra. But can really see the HR-V as one that would be super "cheap to keep" and liked the cloth seats in the regular EX model. Similar in size to my Golf and a bit cheaper to.
Figured your wife would like the CLA Stick but let her check out the GLA also, both on my Plan B right now, CPO units of course. Don't usually like a red vehicle but the red GLA ain't to bad to be honest, kinda drew my eyes to it immediately. And one never knows, as we said for years we'd never buy a German vehicle and then within the span of 10 days, we have not one, but two sitting in the Sandman family garage. Totally out of character for both of us but something about each model we bought, spoke to us and made us purchase, not lease, but purchase. Even my mechanic told me to lease, and if all went well, purchase at the end. But we jumped in with two feet and so far, so good.

The Sandman

Sandman6472

Just saw a commercial for the Mini Clubman and liked what I saw. Not sure why I didn't take a test drive last year since there's a BMW/Mini dealer right near us. Have heard mostly negative about Mini so never really gave it a serious look but the new 2016 models look interesting. Really think me working at Hertz and driving new vehicles all the time has me thinking about this and what I might do, eventually. For a person like me, this job is really great on the one hand but not so great on the other as I see all these new great vehicles that would be cool to own. I have promised the better half to not do any buying whatsoever for the next few years and would only think to maybe do something based on her actions with her A3. At this point, she'd rather me not take it over for some reason but if push came to shove, why not. All I'd have to do is transfer my auto tag over to it at the motor vehicle place and sure folks do this stuff all the time. Guess we'd have to have some kind of bill of sale from her to me notarized to make things legal eagle like but will check into this if I do in fact give her cash for what the dealer offers her or could trade mine at CarMax and add the needed cash into her downpayment.
But right now, this is Plan A of a few scenarios I've got in my head. Who knows, I might just say hell with it and keep the Golf until the wheels fall off...just don't know. It's just fun thinking about the next ride and possibly the one after that. All I know is that I like things like leather and up to date infotainment stuff along with that fun to drive variable. Guess after a lifetime of econoboxes and always looking for the lowest price models while I was younger and raising a family, it's nice to be done with that stuff and now being able to indulge my passion with more expensive luxury iron. And the best part is I get to make this decision since I am footing the whole bill myself. We no longer need to ask the other half for permission since we each have funds set aside for this sort of thing. Makes the whole process so much more fun this way!

The Sandman

Sandman6472

We all joke at work that I really need a home with 7 garage bays, one for each day of the week. They all know about my passion for the automobile and we constantly make jokes about it. Nine times out of ten, I volunteer first for any road trip no matter how small, just don't matter. When handing out keys or being asked to do something, my hand usually is the first one up and have become the go to guy for many situations as they all know I'll almost never turn anything down unless I have to leave early that day. Guess I enjoy the job that much because I usually get right up when the alarm sounds on working days, same when I had those other driving gigs...alarm rings and up I get into the shower and am never late but due to traffic, usually there about 20 minutes early.
Guess I've been lucky in my career that I've had two major jobs where I really enjoyed going in and doing them...not hating to go to work like so many folks do nowadays. But have always felt that G-d placed these positions in front of me, knowing that I'd take them and run with it like I've done. And this latest gig is a great way to exit the work force, really, doing something I have a passion for. And for a retiree like myself, it's the perfect gig!


The Sandman

houdini1

suydam said:

I don't know. The Jeep brand is what they call a review-proof vehicle. People will buy them no matter what. 

It also helps that the Wrangler has just about the highest resale around.

Mr_Shiftright

I think that's because nobody else makes anything like a Wrangler. If that's what you want, there's only one game in town for it.

Sandman6472

Definitely enjoyed the Wrangler I drove to Orlando with the broken top, a real blast to drive but wonder how it would be as a d d. Yet today at work, drove a Compass and a Cherokee and think I could live with either on a daily basis, no problem. I know there are certain vehicles I would hate own yet others, I'd love to. Just depends on the vehicle and think this is the same for most folks. Too bad cars are so crazy expensive that one must be super uber rich to change them on a regular basis because with styles and tech changing so frequently, folks like us I bet would love to be able to change either yearly or every two years. Sure know I'd love to have the option to swap out on a yearly basis if desired. Guess the best way to do this is something called, a lease!
I know in my case, a 12 month lease option would be a great option to have, since like smartphones, would be cool to have the option to swap out yearly if desired. Maybe someday or maybe someday, I'll win the lottery!

The Sandman

Mr_Shiftright

"but wonder how it would be as a d d."

Brutal!

stickguy

I would love a Wrangler 2 door, but it would have to be as a spare/toy/fun car.