Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

28firefighter

A little excitement here in Seattle this morning - over 60% of the downtown area lost power for a couple of hours this morning. Apparently an equipment failure at a substation caused the outage - knocked out cell service in some parts of downtown, traffic signals, and several large office towers had no power.

All back online now, but man, that was unnerving.

andres3

breld said:

And yes, that depreciation hit is indeed brutal. Not sure how I broke my own rule about buying a luxury car new, especially when there's a decent inventory of used S4s out there. But, what's done is done - the longer I keep the car, the more that depreciation will be "spread out," or if/when I do change it out, I'll go used so as not to "double down" that loss.

I think a fully loaded $60K S4 depreciates much faster than an unloaded $50K S4. For example, the KBB value sheet didn't take into account my rear diff, pearl paint, red Nappa leather seating and stitching.

It did give me extra dollars for the B&O sound system, and the premium wheels. Maybe I should have haggled more on those items above! The sheet has a lot of "included" for option items as well.

stickguy

I hope Iluvmysephia is OK (or still on the road!). Saw Dodge City on the news today thanks to Tornadoes passing through and touching down.

breld

andres3 said:

breld said:

And yes, that depreciation hit is indeed brutal. Not sure how I broke my own rule about buying a luxury car new, especially when there's a decent inventory of used S4s out there. But, what's done is done - the longer I keep the car, the more that depreciation will be "spread out," or if/when I do change it out, I'll go used so as not to "double down" that loss.

I think a fully loaded $60K S4 depreciates much faster than an unloaded $50K S4. For example, the KBB value sheet didn't take into account my rear diff, pearl paint, red Nappa leather seating and stitching.

It did give me extra dollars for the B&O sound system, and the premium wheels. Maybe I should have haggled more on those items above! The sheet has a lot of "included" for option items as well.

Yeah, mine was sort of on the high side, with the obligatory premium and tech packages, but also the "black optic" package, rear diff, nappa leather and a layered wood/aluminum trim. While those options added greatly to the appeal of the car to me, I'm quite sure much of it has little added resale value.

@stickguy - that A4 is really nice. Love the color combo. Even though I ended up with an S4, I strongly considered an A4 as well, and I did have that A5 for awhile, which I thought was plenty quick with the nice 8-speed auto. As you pointed out, a new A4 can get up there in price - since stick shifts are pretty scarce, I was looking at loaded up new ones, and at that point, the new S4 really wasn't all that much more.

28firefighter

nyccarguy said:

@andres3 - did you ever check out what the Audi dealer you traded your car into is selling it for?

If I found the correct one (a 2014 S4 in Red with 47k miles), it looks like it is listed at $35,2.

andres3

Nice, I was gonna ask someone to maybe run the VIN on it... I checked a week or two back and it wasn't on the dealer's website. That has to be it, should be listed at 48K miles if they used the Carmax method of always rounding the change upward. Was at 47+K miles. So they want to make over $4K on it.

andres3

stever said:

stickguy said:

I think it depends on the level of damage. a major collision sure, but if it was a minor fender bender, maybe a bumper cover, that shouldn't stop it.

Most states let dealers repair "transit" damage without disclosure to the buyer. So you could easily drive off in a brand spanking new car with $6,000 worth of repair work on it.

Sounds like bad law and policy.

Michaell

 I stopped by the Hyundai dealer this afternoon while running errands. The used car manager estimated between $500 in $1000 damage on the rear bumper. I told the sales guy to give me some numbers on the new Elantra and we'll take it from there. 

andres3

28firefighter said:

nyccarguy said:

@andres3 - did you ever check out what the Audi dealer you traded your car into is selling it for?

If I found the correct one (a 2014 S4 in Red with 47k miles), it looks like it is listed at $35,2.

Where'd you find it? I'm very curious. Are they selling with OEM wheel or my TR Motorsports ones I gave them both.

ab348

andres3 said:

stever said:

stickguy said:

I think it depends on the level of damage. a major collision sure, but if it was a minor fender bender, maybe a bumper cover, that shouldn't stop it.

Most states let dealers repair "transit" damage without disclosure to the buyer. So you could easily drive off in a brand spanking new car with $6,000 worth of repair work on it.

Sounds like bad law and policy.

Back in '83 or '84 I saw an ad for a new Chrysler LeBaron coupe advertised for a really good price in the local paper so I went to look at it. It was nighttime and it seemed OK on the lot. I liked the color combo so I took it for a test drive. Truthfully I was fairly unimpressed with it while driving, but it seemed like such a deal that I took it to a shopping center parking lot and parked it under one of their large light standards to get a better look. It was this color and style (this is an '85 but whatever):



When I was looking at it under the lights I noticed something. That pinstripe you see on the drivers side wasn't on this car, but it was on the passenger side. That led to further investigation and I was able to find some minor overspray and masking marks. It had obviously been damaged in transit and they were trying to fire sale it off their lot. They never mentioned it prior to giving me the keys.

When I got back to the dealer I mentioned it to the salesman. He looked guilty but never admitted anything. Since I didn't really like the car anyway I just left. But I presume they sold it to someone. I wonder if they ever knew.

stickguy

Michael, I read the details on the promo Hyundai emails I keep getting on the Elantra. Noted as "regional", but .9% financing up to 60 months, $500 owner loyalty, and 3 months payments on them (up to $1000 total).

and of course, the usual lease offers which can probably be beaten easily!

28firefighter

I saw it advertised at Audi of Escondido as a non-CPO car. Looks like it has the aftermarket wheels on it.

mlevine

CPO/used cars
I know a guy that I have used before whose brother and him owned a scratch and dent repair business. Used them many times for minor stuff. They no longer have a shop, but now do independent contracting with car dealerships locally. Any lease return or trade in, they have a guy in the lot of the dealer that repairs bumpers, scratches, dents, and even some interior work. They also do the detailing of the car. They spend more time making the car look presentable than is spent in the service area going over the vehicle.

abacomike

mlevine said:

CPO/used cars I know a guy that I have used before whose brother and him owned a scratch and dent repair business. Used them many times for minor stuff. They no longer have a shop, but now do independent contracting with car dealerships locally. Any lease return or trade in, they have a guy in the lot of the dealer that repairs bumpers, scratches, dents, and even some interior work. They also do the detailing of the car. They spend more time making the car look presentable than is spent in the service area going over the vehicle.

That's because "looks" are everything!  The "eye" is the cause of many mistakes because "beauty" is only skin deep! 

stickguy

pretty sure later in the year I will be back at the Audi dealer shopping. Not for me though. My son had a promotion at work come through (got the offer today) that will include a pretty good pay bump. So I am 99+% sure that the Mazda 3 is out the window, and he will be replacing the Jetta with an Audi. Just depends no as to which one! He is leaning toward an A3, but I know has a serious lust of the S3. so we shall see.

stickguy

dang. watching some silly prime time price is right episode, and the contestant just won a 1st class trip to Hawaii, and a BMW 3 series. And this was just the regular game, not the showcase!

abacomike

stickguy said:

dang. watching some silly prime time price is right episode, and the contestant just won a 1st class trip to Hawaii, and a BMW 3 series. And this was just the regular game, not the showcase!

Ditto!  Watching it myself. 

houdini1

abacomike said:

stickguy said:

dang. watching some silly prime time price is right episode, and the contestant just won a 1st class trip to Hawaii, and a BMW 3 series. And this was just the regular game, not the showcase!

Ditto!  Watching it myself. 

Not watching, but my wife just told me about it !!

nyccarguy

28firefighter said:

@andres3 - did you ever check out what the Audi dealer you traded your car into is selling it for?

If I found the correct one (a 2014 S4 in Red with 47k miles), it looks like it is listed at $35,2.

This is why I LOVE this board!  Ask a guy who lives in Southern Caifornia if he's stalking his trade in & a guy in Seattle finds it!  

28firefighter

nyccarguy said:

28firefighter said:

@andres3 - did you ever check out what the Audi dealer you traded your car into is selling it for?

If I found the correct one (a 2014 S4 in Red with 47k miles), it looks like it is listed at $35,2.

This is why I LOVE this board!  Ask a guy who lives in Southern Caifornia if he's stalking his trade in & a guy in Seattle finds it!  

My name is Alex and I have a problem. 

stickguy

I knew this was a wonderful place the day I went to look at a car, and knew from Q exactly how much the dealer paid for it at auction.

stever

andres3 said:

stever said:

stickguy said:

I think it depends on the level of damage. a major collision sure, but if it was a minor fender bender, maybe a bumper cover, that shouldn't stop it.

Most states let dealers repair "transit" damage without disclosure to the buyer. So you could easily drive off in a brand spanking new car with $6,000 worth of repair work on it.

Sounds like bad law and policy.

Here's another one - 2017 Hyundai Elantra, recently purchased. Lied to about hail damage.

nyccarguy

@andres3 - you tracked your S4 a few times, so I assume you had to put pads and rotors on all four corners at some point.  How much did that set you back?  Did you have the DSG Fluid Changed?  How much did that run you?

mlevine

CPO/used cars
About 10 years ago was looking at a pre-owned MB C350. Exterior was in great shape. While the sales guy had to take care of another issue for a few minutes, I went into the back of the car. Found ? pink lipstick marks in the back seats in various places and what appeared to be cigarette marks in the carpet. Once I test drove the car noticed in pulled very badly to the left. When I mentioned the drifting to the left was told it probably needed an alignment. I passed as this car. To me all these issues should have been taken care of prior to showing and placing the car for sale.

nyccarguy

Slow day here at CCBA, so I figured I'd post pics of my newly renovated kitchen which has been holding me back from punching my CCBA card.  It was 95% done last summer & just finished on Easter Sunday.

nyccarguy

nyccarguy

qbrozen

Vsport repair finally complete last night and I picked it up tomorrow. Feels like I'm learning to drive it all over again because I got so used to the huge lag in the 2.0T ATS and sluggish GM transmission. The Vsport just jumps in comparison.

corvette

Nyc, that kitchen looks great! I dread the day when I have to redo mine. 

nyccarguy

Glad to know you are back in the saddle ripping up the NJ roads.  

nyccarguy

I'll be in Red Bank, NJ this Sunday for a wedding.  My blood boils when people plan things like this on holiday weekends.  Molly Pitcher Inn.

andres3

ab348 said:

andres3 said:

stever said:

stickguy said:

I think it depends on the level of damage. a major collision sure, but if it was a minor fender bender, maybe a bumper cover, that shouldn't stop it.

Most states let dealers repair "transit" damage without disclosure to the buyer. So you could easily drive off in a brand spanking new car with $6,000 worth of repair work on it.

Sounds like bad law and policy.

Back in '83 or '84 I saw an ad for a new Chrysler LeBaron coupe advertised for a really good price in the local paper so I went to look at it. It was nighttime and it seemed OK on the lot. I liked the color combo so I took it for a test drive. Truthfully I was fairly unimpressed with it while driving, but it seemed like such a deal that I took it to a shopping center parking lot and parked it under one of their large light standards to get a better look. It was this color and style (this is an '85 but whatever):



When I was looking at it under the lights I noticed something. That pinstripe you see on the drivers side wasn't on this car, but it was on the passenger side. That led to further investigation and I was able to find some minor overspray and masking marks. It had obviously been damaged in transit and they were trying to fire sale it off their lot. They never mentioned it prior to giving me the keys.

When I got back to the dealer I mentioned it to the salesman. He looked guilty but never admitted anything. Since I didn't really like the car anyway I just left. But I presume they sold it to someone. I wonder if they ever knew.

A diminished value vehicle appraiser told me he was using a device that can measure the thickness of the paint on each panel with great accuracy. He said that'll tell you right away in an instant if any panels have been repainted. I think I might need to buy one of these devices. However, I think if you just look at panel edges you can really see where they've been repainted. They just can't seem to get clean edges on the sides of hoods/fenders. It's either under-painted (primer showing through) or over-painted which leads to orange peel city, drips, bulges, drops.

Also look at if bolts have been spun on the hood; pretty easy to see if they were factory painted. On many cars this won't matter much, because the original paint job might not be all that great.

andres3

nyccarguy said:

@andres3 - you tracked your S4 a few times, so I assume you had to put pads and rotors on all four corners at some point.  How much did that set you back?  Did you have the DSG Fluid Changed?  How much did that run you?

I did fronts and rears separately, so it's hard for me to remember numbers, but without digging up receipts, I'd say it is about $800 for all 4 at an Indy using reasonable sport pads. Italian Ferodo pads cost $250 a pair but they just might be worth it; never got to test them for the fronts so I'm undecided. I'm sure a dealership would charge much more for both labor and parts.

I think the DSG fluid is now good for 55K miles according to Audi (my memory is bad these days; I'll double-check on that), so I don't recall ever changing it on the S4. Now I'm questioning that, and thinking perhaps it is still every 35K. Early on-set perhaps....??? remember doing it 2 or 3 times to the A3 (every 30K back then), so it cost about $15/quart for the DSG "Oil" and it's about an hours labor. The filter is making the number $35 ring in my head.

I remember my mechanic saying the correct way to do it involved something about running the car through the gears flushing out the old DSG oil while you put new oil in??? I'm very far from an auto mechanic so I don't know much more about it other than he said the "correct" way was involved, and that dealerships probably take shortcuts. Would be interesting to ask a trained Audi technician more about recommended methods to service DSG "Oil" changes. I do know I'd stay away from a shop that quotes it as "Multi-ATF" fluid rather than oil.

andres3

pretty sure later in the year I will be back at the Audi dealer shopping. Not for me though. My son had a promotion at work come through (got the offer today) that will include a pretty good pay bump. So I am 99+% sure that the Mazda 3 is out the window, and he will be replacing the Jetta with an Audi. Just depends no as to which one! He is leaning toward an A3, but I know has a serious lust of the S3. so we shall see.

He should be able to get an S3. Splurge a little. He'll be able to negotiate an excellent deal as they are discounting S3's heavily and wheeling and dealing on them. Tell him to use the "I'm cross-shopping the less expensive Golf R" line on them. Helped me with the TTS.

andres3

nyccarguy said:

Like the Kitchen!

Noticed the wide plank flooring; seems to be all the rage with the younger hipper crowd and home builders these days.

andres3

nyccarguy said:

28firefighter said:

nyccarguy said:

@andres3 - did you ever check out what the Audi dealer you traded your car into is selling it for?

If I found the correct one (a 2014 S4 in Red with 47k miles), it looks like it is listed at $35,2.

This is why I LOVE this board!  Ask a guy who lives in Southern Caifornia if he's stalking his trade in & a guy in Seattle finds it!  

http://www.audiescondido.com/used/Audi/2014-Audi-S4-escondido-ca-a02bd8850a0e0ae77ffe1c9a81fc653f.htm

Looks good; found it! Didn't look hard enough the first time I guess.

Interesting notable observations:

1) They did a good wash and wax looks like.
2) The interior was basically fully detailed (including carpet cleaning) a couple of weeks before trading in, so I hope they didn't waste too much time in there.
3) Doesn't look like they used a bumper doc on the right rear bumper. If you look at the picture showing that corner, you are not supposed to be able to see half the right rear tire tread; think concave rather than designed convex. I figured they would recondition that.....
4) The motor oil was only about 1,000 miles old; so again, hope they didn't waste the good motor oil and filter.
5) Wipers were brand new too; I'm sure they didn't change those.
6) They changed the tires! Odd considering the aftermarket wheels already had awesome 255/40R18 Michelin Super Sports mounted that were still well over 2/3 life left; probably 3/4ths! What a waste! Only logical conclusion is they wanted a quieter tire since it appears they are selling the highway silence factor. Only other reason could be that standard factory size is 245/40R18 and they didn't want a deviation? Lastly, one of them had been repaired with the Costco usual patch and plug method (dead center of tread so non-issue).
7) Glad to see they are selling it as non-certified.
8) You might find them putting the OEM 18" wheels up on Ebay?

nyccarguy

Thx @andres3.  The flooring is 6" x 24" Porcelain Tiles.  The floor is heated too.

roadburner

nyccarguy said:

Beautiful! I especially like the farm sink. Our remodel back in 2007 wasn't as elaborate but it made a huge difference.

stickguy

An S3 is probably going to lead to trouble. Will push toward an A3 for now! Plus he lives in bombed out road snow country, and won't want to deal with winter wheels and tires. But we shall see. His money.

I like the farmhouse sink too.

As to transit damage, I remember now seeing our odyssey fresh off the truck, and noticing some big scratches on the front door. Forgot about them by delivery, and never could tell where they were.

breld

Yeah, I would think going with an S3 at such a young age sort of spoils someone on future shopping. I mean, where do you go from there? An A3 would be super nice and a real indulgence as is, IMO.

breld

@nyccarguy - great kitchen! Love the white cabinets and dark countertop - sort of a cottage look, yet contemporary. And I do like that sink!

So with that done, you're ready for some car shopping, no?

stickguy

s3->s4->Porsche. That seems to be the plan. Hope he keeps getting moved up the ladder.

fintail

Does that kitchen have double windows or something? Looks unusual to me, but such things aren't normal here, and my kitchen doesn't have a window at all (multi unit building). I hope to never remodel a kitchen, I've seen them become money pits.

But on that note, I went to a yard sale last weekend, and they had a pristine ~1935 monitor top fridge that the owner said worked perfectly with almost no noise. It was the nicest I have ever seen. If I had the kind of place for it, I would have spent the $250 and brought it home.

nyccarguy

@fintail - yes the kitchen has 2 separate casement windows.  The previous owner put them in all over the house.  The are Anderson & very high quality.  Double hung windows are all the rage these days.

Michaell

Just had a long talk with the Hyundai sales manager. Take aways from the conversation:

1. He won't give me the adjusted cap cost (selling price + fees) over the phone, but will give it to me in person.
2. He thinks the SE with PEP and Tech will lease for about $200-220/mo before tax.
3. Memorial Day weekend is when they offer the lowest pricing of the year.

So, I get to bring this up to the wife tonight and see what she says. If anything happens, it will happen tomorrow evening, as I do a delivery shift starting at 10:30 Saturday morning.

28firefighter

Michaell said:

1. He won't give me the adjusted cap cost (selling price + fees) over the phone, but will give it to me in person.

For real? You already had the car in to be appraised, so he has to know you're serious, right?

I'd just as soon find another dealer to work with.

Michaell

28firefighter said:

Michaell said:

1. He won't give me the adjusted cap cost (selling price + fees) over the phone, but will give it to me in person.

For real? You already had the car in to be appraised, so he has to know you're serious, right?

I'd just as soon find another dealer to work with.

Actually, it's OK. I respect that he's drawing the line with me on that. He's not worried that I'll shop the number - they have been the #1 dealer in the region for the last 5-6 years.

Yes, he knows I was at the dealer on Tuesday.

There is also another wrinkle - they have a large amount of inventory, but they just lost their overflow lot, so inventory is stacked all over the place. Works in my favor.

corvette

I agree. Making you come there in person is a crappy gimmick. 

stickguy

not really a trick. they want you there in person to see them drop their shorts.

adding all these pieces together, if Michael is patient, he is leaving with a new car and a killer deal.

kyfdx

@nyccarguy Love the combo of stainless steel and farmhouse design in the sink. Also, like the wood-look ceramic. (really looks good in a bathroom).