Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous (Archived)

suydam

stever said:

I think CPOs are just like any used car; need to pull a Carfax and have your Indy mechanic check it out.

Totally agree. My mistake was thinking a year old CPO Subaru Forester didn't need to get checked out. WRONG! When I took it in for service the mechanic said, " Did you know this car was in an accident"? And it never ran right. Never did that again. And wrote that dealer off my list -- which in my area, means Subaru is never a possibility for me.

henryn

mlevine said:

My father-in-law got a CPO MB CL550 from a local MB dealer. Told it was a lease return. He went to have tires rotated at independent tire place and they mentioned to him if he knew the car had water damage as there were signs underneath the car that suggested this. I just think one needs to be careful even with the CPO market.

I'm not sure I would trust the "independent tire place" to know what they're talking about. What kind of "signs underneath the car"?

laurasdada

I received a letter from my Jag dealer. They want to buy back my '13 XF for 20% over "book value*." They're desperate for used cars. And, they'd be glad to get me into a new set of wheels. For 20% over MSRP, of course!

Tempting to review the offer, but I just bought a condo, so no new cars for me. Yet.

Mr_Shiftright

Best way to check for water damage is to pop open the door panels--the detailers rarely get in there, but they might flush the fluids in the trans and diff.

If you see mud or other debris inside the doors, you know you've been swindled.

mlevine

To henryn,

They noticed water lines/marks and discoloration. As he related the story, they suggested the car had some degree of water damage. I did not ask him for details. He knows the guy running the tire place well.

nyccarguy

I agree with @roadburner.  It is all up to the selling dealer's integrity and how much you trust them & their service department.

 I have a customer who bought a 1 year old, CPO Porsche Cayenne (1st body style) with something like 10K miles on it.  He got a significant discount off of the car's original MSRP.  He drove the Cayenne until it had 195K on it.  He was looking for an excuse to get rid of it.  Transmission started to give him problems.  So he traded it in and bought a 2014 or 2015 CPO Cayenne Diesel.

Im with @stickguy though.  How do you know you aren't getting @graphicguy's CTS or @abacomike's  E350 with the bad injectors?

breld

In looking at the 2016 CPO wagon I'm interested in, I see BMW has an "Elite" CPO program for these barely used cars, which basically adds on 1 year (25k miles) to the end of the initial warranty, instead of the 2 years (50k miles).  

Makes sense, but it used to be you could find a very lightly used CPO BMW and have a really long warranty period on it.  

nyccarguy

@breld - I doubt you'll like the BMW Wagon as much as the S4.  I'd you've got to ditch a ride, the X5 ProBably makes the most sense.  

28firefighter

nyccarguy said:

@breld - I doubt you'll like the BMW Wagon as much as the S4.  I'd you've got to ditch a ride, the X5 ProBably makes the most sense.  

Seconded. You will not be happy with the BMW wagon after the initial infatuation wears off. Flip the X5.

akangl

My son bought a super clean CPO 2012 Hyundai Elantra, great car........well, until the engine went out at 30k but Hyundai was great and fixed it plus gave him a rental. There was no damage to the car at all, the dealer knew the fleet it had come off of since they routinely bought the rentals when they came off the fleet. That was a good CPO experience. While this Sienna could have been ok, it made me nervous. I prefer knowing everything that's ever happened to my car. Three of our four vehicles were purchased new, the other one was a cheapy that does have a clean car fax and no signs of any damage.

Now my beef with car fax is they brag about how that clean car fax is so important. Every time I see their commercials I cringe. My 2015 Ford Focus is sitting in my driveway looking just fine after an $11k damage repair. The car fax is CLEAN, if I wasn't an honest person I could easily pass that car off as never wrecked. The damage was no joke and required a new door and the quarter panel replaced along with all the rear suspension. It was hit extremely hard. I can tell its been repaired but to someone just looking at it you'd never guess. Same thing with my dad's truck, he was in a head on and it was repaired, clean car fax. I hate how dealers push that to get people to buy used vehicles. This deal with the Sienna reminded me why I only buy new, at least I know what the wreck and repair looks like.

Below is the car fax on my Focus that was wrecked 8/6/2015:

Vehicle Information:
2015 FORD FOCUS SE

VIN: 1FADP3K29FL306964

HATCHBACK 4 DR

2.0L I4 FI DOHC 16V

FRONT WHEEL DRIVE

No accident/damage reported

No accident / damage reported to CARFAX

CARFAX 1-Owner vehicle

Registered as a personal vehicle

Personal vehicle

Vehicle registration information

Last owned in Alaska

Vehicle history information available

2 Detailed records available

Last reported odometer reading/mileage

50 Last reported odometer reading

Ownership History

The number of owners is estimated

Owner 1

Year purchased 2015
Type of owner CARFAX One Owner Vehicle History Personal
Estimated length of ownership 8 months
Owned in the following states/provinces Alaska
Estimated miles driven per year ---
Last reported odometer reading 50

No accident/damage reported

No accident / damage reported to CARFAX

Registered as a personal vehicle

Vehicle registration information

Last owned in Alaska

Vehicle history information available

2 Detailed records available

Last reported odometer reading/mileage

50 Last reported odometer reading

Title History

CARFAX guarantees the information in this section

Salvage | Junk | Rebuilt | Fire | Flood | Hail | Lemon Guaranteed
No Problem
Not Actual Mileage | Exceeds Mechanical Limits Guaranteed
No Problem

Additional History

Not all accidents / issues are reported to CARFAX

Total Loss
No total loss reported to CARFAX.

No Issues Reported

Structural Damage
No structural damage reported to CARFAX.

No Issues Reported

Airbag Deployment
No airbag deployment reported to CARFAX.

No Issues Reported

Odometer Check
No indication of an odometer rollback.

No Issues Indicated

Accident / Damage
No accidents or damage reported to CARFAX.

No Issues Reported

Detailed History

Owner 1
Purchased: 2015
Type: Personal
Where: Alaska
Est. length owned: 9/10/15 -
present
(8 months)

05/16/2015 NICB Vehicle manufactured
and shipped to original dealer
09/10/2015 50 Alaska
Motor Vehicle Dept.
Kodiak, AK
Title #4730067 Title or registration issued
First owner reported
Titled or registered as
personal vehicle
Loan or lien reported
Vehicle color noted as Red

ab348

So how is it that Carfax does not know anything about the Focus being in a wreck?

corvette

I'm guessing they don't get records from the local law enforcement. A competent dealer will put a car they are evaluating for trade-in on a lift and if there has been any frame damage, there are usually clamp marks or other telltale signs.

Sandman6472

Seems like CarFax can sometimes be CarFaux! This does not give me a great feeling as I was thinking of going CPO next time around, either CPO BMW or CPO MB. But just shows no company is perfect when it comes to this reporting stuff but one would think the upper crust dealers would have an almost 100% perfect recording of everything. One pays more for a luxury brand and just wants them to stand behind their product. Maybe taking the wife's A3 ain't such a bad thing after all since I know the complete service history very closely.
Since she fell and hurt her wrist last week, I've been doing most of the driving and have been using the A3 most of the time. I like it! Very similar to mine but it just feels a notch above if y'all can understand what I mean here. Not crazy about the color combo, saw a silver and charcoal on the road and they were both stunning...prefer the charcoal at this point. White is nice but not my first choice on any vehicle.

The Sandman

stever

Not all repair shops have agreements with Carfax or AutoCheck and if they don't report the repair or body work, there's one place stuff can fall through the cracks. Not sure how the insurance companies handle it or the state agencies (they'd be slow even if they do participate).

The reporting services are another tool, but yeah, they miss stuff.

lol at CarFaux.

breld

sandman_6472 said:

Seems like CarFax can sometimes be CarFaux! This does not give me a great feeling as I was thinking of going CPO next time around, either CPO BMW or CPO MB. But just shows no company is perfect when it comes to this reporting stuff but one would think the upper crust dealers would have an almost 100% perfect recording of everything. One pays more for a luxury brand and just wants them to stand behind their product. Maybe taking the wife's A3 ain't such a bad thing after all since I know the complete service history very closely.
Since she fell and hurt her wrist last week, I've been doing most of the driving and have been using the A3 most of the time. I like it! Very similar to mine but it just feels a notch above if y'all can understand what I mean here. Not crazy about the color combo, saw a silver and charcoal on the road and they were both stunning...prefer the charcoal at this point. White is nice but not my first choice on any vehicle.

The Sandman

I wouldn't be scared off of going the CPO route. We've had numerous CPO BMWs and Audis, and have never had any issues. The lesson is simply that you can't take anything for granted, CPO or not, so use the same due diligence regardless.

I do think you tend to have a bit more recourse against the dealer if they certify it and something goes wrong or wasn't disclosed.

breld

28firefighter said:

nyccarguy said:

@breld - I doubt you'll like the BMW Wagon as much as the S4.  I'd you've got to ditch a ride, the X5 ProBably makes the most sense.  

Seconded. You will not be happy with the BMW wagon after the initial infatuation wears off. Flip the X5.

Yeah, you guys are probably right. And you must really feel strongly about it if you're warning me off of a punch!

I guess the fact that I've kept the S4 for 9 months now speaks for itself - that may sound like a joke, but everyone here understands that's actually a rather long time for me!

I will mention though that I don't really push the S4 to its limits, so I do think the 328 (or 428) would be fine performance-wise. What I fear I would miss is the manual trannie, and I have come to like the interior of the Audi better than the current BMWs.

fordfool

Would it be in a body shop's self-interest to report their repair work to Carfax which would diminish the value of their customers' cars? Also, my guess is that many accidents never generate a police report, especially when there is no bodily injury. None the less, I'd want to see a Carfax on any used car that I was considering.

CPO is merely a dealer gimmick to sell the customer an extended warranty.

Mr_Shiftright

Carfax can snare you in different ways. It can fail to report an accident, or, worse yet, you can buy a car that is "accident free" and then the accident might appear two years later on the CARFAX report----and there's nothing you can do about that. How could that happen? Well, CARFAX plugs into some new data it didn't have access to before, in a certain state for instance. I've seen this happen a number of times---it even happened to ME! And this type of "late entry" is not covered by any Carfax guarantee.

So have every car you buy carefully examined, regardless of what the Carfax says.

Mr_Shiftright

GEEZ---been looking at the prices of the "Clown Shoe" BMW Z3 coupes---worth double and then some more than the roadster.

It's not often that the coupe version outsells the soft top version of a car by such a margin....I can think of a few, like the '63 Corvette Split Window and the Mercedes Gullwing.

akangl

corvette said:

I'm guessing they don't get records from the local law enforcement. A competent dealer will put a car they are evaluating for trade-in on a lift and if there has been any frame damage, there are usually clamp marks or other telltale signs.

I saw the Focus at nearly all stages of repair and the repair was done very very well and as far as I know there was no frame or unibody damage. The body shop that did the repair I trust 100% and I've known the GM and shop foreman for over 8 years, they put up with my pestering them at all stages of repair and allow me to see my vehicle.
There was no intrusion into the passenger compartment amazingly enough and no airbags deployed. The car wasn't hit dead center on the side, my daughter had tried to get out of the way, so the damage was the back door, quarter panel, bumper, and suspension. There was a police report and the other driver was cited. My daughter and son were both injured. Why it doesn't show up on car fax is beyond me, it wasn't a small accident. Allstate paid out a $3000 diminished value claim to me without much grumbling. I'm still annoyed about the whole thing but at least my daughter likes the car and has claimed it as her own. Fine by me, I love my Explorer and would much rather drive it.
I'll see if I can find pictures to post of it then and now.

akangl

August 6, 2015
Today

Mr_Shiftright

It may show up months or years from now. There's no statute of limitations on Carfax data.

akangl

Mr_Shiftright said:

It may show up months or years from now. There's no statute of limitations on Carfax data.

It might, doesn't matter to me of course since I highly doubt that car is going anywhere. My dad's accident with his truck never showed up and that was about 10-12 years ago.

stickguy

Nice color on the Focus.

I am not anti-used. Just commented that the rare horror story is one reason to prefer new (understanding of course the financial impact).

What I really am not concerned with is CPO. I am happy to get a car from an indy I trust, for thousands less for just as nice car. About the only CPO aspect with any real potential value is the extra warranty, and depending on the make/year/mileage, that may be relatively insignificant.

I shop the car, then the price. Being CPO is just a little "bonus" I guess.

stickguy

I have noticed that my local Audi dealer (I have been there way too often the last few weeks!) has some nice 2016s that they CPO. This one I saw today and fell in love with. Same color as an A3 they have, but with gray instead of black guts. A huge, huge improvement. Also much more loaded.

based on build date, it is only in service for ~9 months, and has 7,300 miles. so the CPO was an oil change and detail. But it does get an extra 2 years "most everything warranty", so goes out 5 years and to 100K. But, for those 2 years, it will be under powertrain warranty anyway, so the only delta is whatever incidentals that CPO covers beyond powertrain.

anyway, this is a fantastic looking car IMO. and the perfect size!

http://www.cherryhillaudi.com/used/Audi/2016-Audi-A4-5072bd6a0a0e0a6b1d31b36eb32b8429.htm

nyccarguy

I dig it @stickguy - you've got my blessing

stickguy

just gotta wait until it comes down to 30K.

the A3 is at 29.5. a 2016 with 9,500 miles, but just premium not plus, and not a tech (if that is the right term). but still a 2.0t quattro

nyccarguy

@breld - you've had the S4 for 9 months already?  It must be growing on you.  Even though you probably don't come near pushing it to its limits on public roads, it's nice to know that you have the ability to 

How many miles are on the S4?

The S4 checks a lot of boxes for you and anything else you go for is going to be a serious compromise.  Not to mention the depreciation hit you are going to take (sorry to bring up the Elephant in the room, but you are a numbers guy Bruce).  The S4 satisfies your stick itch.  It is a great looking car with a gorgeous interior.  There is nothing that would particularly WOW me about that 328xi wagon either (less power, not as nice interior).  Just my humble opinion about someone else's finances.  That & $2.50 will get me a large Dunkin Donuts Coffee.

akangl

stickguy said:

Nice color on the Focus.

Sad thing is all 3 of our Fords are that color. The Chevy is a tanish silver I guess.

nyccarguy

@stickguy - add 3 years, 20K miles, 2 cylinders, 113 horsepower, & a supercharger for only an extra $2,100 and you can have this:

@breld - yours has different wheels, correct?

fudge, the link didn't work.  It is for a 2013 S4 with 27,K miles listed for $36,399.

breld

nyccarguy said:

@breld - you've had the S4 for 9 months already?  It must be growing on you.  Even though you probably don't come near pushing it to its limits on public roads, it's nice to know that you have the ability to 

How many miles are on the S4?

The S4 checks a lot of boxes for you and anything else you go for is going to be a serious compromise.  Not to mention the depreciation hit you are going to take (sorry to bring up the Elephant in the room, but you are a numbers guy Bruce).  The S4 satisfies your stick itch.  It is a great looking car with a gorgeous interior.  There is nothing that would particularly WOW me about that 328xi wagon either (less power, not as nice interior).  Just my humble opinion about someone else's finances.  That & $2.50 will get me a large Dunkin Donuts Coffee.

Just a bit over 10k miles on the S4. At some point I'll be ready for a change, and that will likely involve a "downgrade" in power and performance, but I'm okay with that. The way we switch out cars, there's definitely a "ceiling" that we get to, and then it's fun in it's own way to "reset." Like when I got the mazda3, which I really did enjoy, or with my wife's current MINI (a base model at that).

But to your point, I'm a little spoiled right now and not necessarily ready for that change yet.

breld

And yes, that depreciation hit is indeed brutal. Not sure how I broke my own rule about buying a luxury car new, especially when there's a decent inventory of used S4s out there. But, what's done is done - the longer I keep the car, the more that depreciation will be "spread out," or if/when I do change it out, I'll go used so as not to "double down" that loss.

stickguy

Bradd, I don't want something that old. Certainly not for that price! The base motor is plenty for me, so the complexity and cost of the V6 and SC isn't needed.

plus I like some sidewall!

the new A4 has a nice interior. But it does seem a lot bigger than the last gen, which seems to "fit" well.

will see what the used market looks like come Fall 2017!

Michaell

Yeah, @breld, not sure I see you switching a stick S4 for any automatic BMW.

Didn't you ditch the automatic 5-series for the stick shift Mazda 3?

Finally heard back from the Hyundai dealer. They want to see my car to evaluate the damage to the bumper.

I'll try to get there tomorrow afternoon.

In the meantime, I've asked him for a lease quote on the Elantra SE, standalone.

E-GT is at 44,7xx miles as of today. Clock is ticking - probably put close to 100 miles on it tomorrow, but then it will be parked on Thursday and Friday (out of town with wife, we'll be in the Outback).

But, set to deliver all day on Saturday.

graphicguy

henryn said:

mlevine said:

My father-in-law got a CPO MB CL550 from a local MB dealer. Told it was a lease return. He went to have tires rotated at independent tire place and they mentioned to him if he knew the car had water damage as there were signs underneath the car that suggested this. I just think one needs to be careful even with the CPO market.

I'm not sure I would trust the "independent tire place" to know what they're talking about. What kind of "signs underneath the car"?

This reminds me of a time I was looking pretty seriously at an Infiniti G37s coupe a few years ago. It had super low mileage for the year, and the pictures of it looked great (it was advertised on line by a dealer). Price seemed super low, too considering the great condition the pics showed on line.

Talked to the dealer...independent place. Inquired about the G. The guy I spoke to said was being sold at the dealership as a favor to a friend. Little curious, but it was little more than an afternoon drive, so went to look at it. It ended up being little more than a garage with an office and about 25-30 cars on the lot. First thing I noticed was the G seemed out of place with all the used Regals, Crown Vics, Camries, Altimas, etc.

Pictures were dead on. Beautiful black ext/red int. Tried to get more info, but the dealer repeated he was selling it for a friend. They couldn't even tell me who the "friend" was.

Anyway, drove fine, but smelled musty. Looked underneath and didn't see anything. Looked under the seats, looked fine....until, looking behind the pedals, they didn't quite die the carpet that far and found water marks and major discoloration. I felt it, and it was still moist.

Returned and asked the dealer about water damage. He said it was from a busted heater. I didn't buy that. After talking for awhile, he finally spilled the beans (which I would have found out anyway). Salvage title, bought at auction. He said his mechanic gave the car a clean bill of health (gee, lux car with water damage, fixed by a shade tree mechanic...what could go wrong?). Still didn't quite understand the "I'm selling it for a friend" line, other than to have some protection for his car lot against any blowback.

IIRC, the car was priced about 2/3 of a normal G, same options. Low mileage was the hook. He asked me to make him an offer. I declined....although, I did think about low balling him, figuring if something went sideways down the road, the money I saved would more than make up for it. But, then there was the salvage title. I drove away.

ab348

stickguy said:

I have noticed that my local Audi dealer (I have been there way too often the last few weeks!) has some nice 2016s that they CPO. This one I saw today and fell in love with. Same color as an A3 they have, but with gray instead of black guts. A huge, huge improvement. Also much more loaded.

based on build date, it is only in service for ~9 months, and has 7,300 miles. so the CPO was an oil change and detail. But it does get an extra 2 years "most everything warranty", so goes out 5 years and to 100K. But, for those 2 years, it will be under powertrain warranty anyway, so the only delta is whatever incidentals that CPO covers beyond powertrain.

anyway, this is a fantastic looking car IMO. and the perfect size!

http://www.cherryhillaudi.com/used/Audi/2016-Audi-A4-5072bd6a0a0e0a6b1d31b36eb32b8429.htm

That is a fine-looking vehicle. I love the colors both inside and out. And it was built only 11 months ago.

What is the delta in pricing between this one and a brand-new one?

My only reservation, which always applies when I see a car that new on the used lot, is why? What were its circumstances? Demo or executive car is one thing, but a buyback from a dissatisfied customer is something else entirely.

stever

That always nags me in the back of my mind too @ab348. It could be because of an elderly owner not driving much and wanting a new car every year.

But maybe the low miles are because it sat in the shop for six months....

kyfdx

Mr_Shiftright said:

GEEZ---been looking at the prices of the "Clown Shoe" BMW Z3 coupes---worth double and then some more than the roadster.

It's not often that the coupe version outsells the soft top version of a car by such a margin....I can think of a few, like the '63 Corvette Split Window and the Mercedes Gullwing.

It's the same way with the Z4M coupes.. 30-40% higher than the roadsters. (or more)

Those guys at Enthusiast Auto have really ruined the market for those cars.

suydam

ab348 said:

stickguy said:

I have noticed that my local Audi dealer (I have been there way too often the last few weeks!) has some nice 2016s that they CPO. This one I saw today and fell in love with. Same color as an A3 they have, but with gray instead of black guts. A huge, huge improvement. Also much more loaded.

based on build date, it is only in service for ~9 months, and has 7,300 miles. so the CPO was an oil change and detail. But it does get an extra 2 years "most everything warranty", so goes out 5 years and to 100K. But, for those 2 years, it will be under powertrain warranty anyway, so the only delta is whatever incidentals that CPO covers beyond powertrain.

anyway, this is a fantastic looking car IMO. and the perfect size!

http://www.cherryhillaudi.com/used/Audi/2016-Audi-A4-5072bd6a0a0e0a6b1d31b36eb32b8429.htm

That is a fine-looking vehicle. I love the colors both inside and out. And it was built only 11 months ago.

What is the delta in pricing between this one and a brand-new one?

My only reservation, which always applies when I see a car that new on the used lot, is why? What were its circumstances? Demo or executive car is one thing, but a buyback from a dissatisfied customer is something else entirely.

That's always a nagging question for me too for a 1 year old car.

nyccarguy

@ab348 - that was most likely a dealer demo.  Most of the A3 & A4 6 months to 1 yr cars with low miles are retired service loaners.  Works for the dealer both ways.  They need a sale by the end of the month/quarter/year to get a big bonus check from the manufacturer.  They punch the car as sold & register it to their service department.  6 months or so later, they slap the CPO warranty on it and give it an attractive asking price compared to new & make a tidy profit.  Double dipping.

stever

Turning it into essentially a rental return.

stickguy

A 2017 is the new design A4, but sticker comparably equipped is in the 48k range. That blue one is provably a bit overpriced.

Carmax doesn't tell much, other than it was sold at that dealer. I did not talk to sale guy but I assume NYC is correct, and it is a dealer demo or service loaner of some kind.

stickguy

The loaner I got there 2 weeks ago was a 2016 Jett's, with barely 2k miles on the clock.

Mr_Shiftright

kyfdx said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

GEEZ---been looking at the prices of the "Clown Shoe" BMW Z3 coupes---worth double and then some more than the roadster.

It's not often that the coupe version outsells the soft top version of a car by such a margin....I can think of a few, like the '63 Corvette Split Window and the Mercedes Gullwing.

It's the same way with the Z4M coupes.. 30-40% higher than the roadsters. (or more)

Those guys at Enthusiast Auto have really ruined the market for those cars.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I realize that it seems like that, but bottom line, it is the buyer who determines the market value of cars. Auction houses and dealers and blogs can pump out all the hype they want, but if the buyers don't swallow it, the price is not going to move upwards.

andres3

akangl said:

Sienna turned out to be a no go. We were about 1/2 way to the dealer when I got an email from the salesman listing the info about the CPO warranty and the car fax on the car, which of course they touted was clean. Then at the very bottom of the email, almost as an afterthought he mentioned that the prev owner had reported that the car had been in an accident. When I looked at the Sienna the first time it was dirty but I didn't notice anything glaring, I asked if it had any accident history and was assured it did not. He went on to say that any accidents wouldn't allow it to be CPO.

I decided to continue to the dealership and look the van over again. My salesguy was magically "too busy" to help us so we ended up with a greenpea who annoyed the crap out of me. I looked the van over and kicked myself for not noticing the obvious repairs, the paint was rough, trim was on crooked, and it was missing a part on the bottom of the sliding door. Hubby wanted to drive it so we took it back out, naturally the greenpea didn't know when to STFU! I held my tongue and hubby noticed when he made any left hand turn the sliding door popped and protested.

We got back to the dealership and I asked the sales manager if he knew who did the repairs and approx. how much the damage was (I was told the driver's side sliding door and quarter panel were replaced). He told me he could not tell me that information due to the privacy act....yeah, BS. They agreed to fix the issues with the repair and kept saying how it couldn't have been much damage because it had a clean car fax.....I laughed and mentioned how my '15 Focus has a clean car fax too yet had over $11k in repairs done to it.

Hubby and I talked, the popping made him nervous and so did the thought of trading in a perfectly good, never wrecked Explorer for that Sienna. In the end we decided that the Explorer would stay. I don't regret it for a second, it just turned 53k and is still a great car. So very glad I didn't buy the Sienna!

Oh and when I got home it occurred to me that the paperwork said the accident happened in March and the repair was in april. I started thinking about the huge pile ups that happened with a big snow storm in March. I jumped online and started searching through pictures of the accidents.....wouldn't ya know it, there was the Sienna in all its glory having just been clobbered by the back end of an F-350! Minor damage, yeah ok!

I'm beginning to think Car Fax has zero credibility. I think a dealer will CPO anything they can get away with, but I don't think they are supposed to CPO accident-damaged cars.

stickguy

I think it depends on the level of damage. a major collision sure, but if it was a minor fender bender, maybe a bumper cover, that shouldn't stop it.

nyccarguy

@andres3 - did you ever check out what the Audi dealer you traded your car into is selling it for?

stever

stickguy said:

I think it depends on the level of damage. a major collision sure, but if it was a minor fender bender, maybe a bumper cover, that shouldn't stop it.

Most states let dealers repair "transit" damage without disclosure to the buyer. So you could easily drive off in a brand spanking new car with $6,000 worth of repair work on it.

houdini1

stickguy said:

I have noticed that my local Audi dealer (I have been there way too often the last few weeks!) has some nice 2016s that they CPO. This one I saw today and fell in love with. Same color as an A3 they have, but with gray instead of black guts. A huge, huge improvement. Also much more loaded.

based on build date, it is only in service for ~9 months, and has 7,300 miles. so the CPO was an oil change and detail. But it does get an extra 2 years "most everything warranty", so goes out 5 years and to 100K. But, for those 2 years, it will be under powertrain warranty anyway, so the only delta is whatever incidentals that CPO covers beyond powertrain.

anyway, this is a fantastic looking car IMO. and the perfect size!

http://www.cherryhillaudi.com/used/Audi/2016-Audi-A4-5072bd6a0a0e0a6b1d31b36eb32b8429.htm

Really nice car at that price with the premium plus, tech pkg. and low miles. Our local Audi dealer is asking that much for CPO '15's. I think you also get 2 years scheduled maintenance. And the real kicker is that it is an Audi and a great car. Go for it, it won't last.

andres3

breld said:

28firefighter said:

nyccarguy said:

@breld - I doubt you'll like the BMW Wagon as much as the S4.  I'd you've got to ditch a ride, the X5 ProBably makes the most sense.  

Seconded. You will not be happy with the BMW wagon after the initial infatuation wears off. Flip the X5.

Yeah, you guys are probably right. And you must really feel strongly about it if you're warning me off of a punch!

I guess the fact that I've kept the S4 for 9 months now speaks for itself - that may sound like a joke, but everyone here understands that's actually a rather long time for me!

I will mention though that I don't really push the S4 to its limits, so I do think the 328 (or 428) would be fine performance-wise. What I fear I would miss is the manual trannie, and I have come to like the interior of the Audi better than the current BMWs.

Start pushing that S4 to the limits; it's a fun car when pushed. I particularly like the rear-diff that helps that thing make turns at high speeds that shouldn't be possible for something that heavy.