Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous

qbrozen

28firefighter said:

Some Alfa dealers are getting overwhelmed with email because of leasehackr. Not by people who understand the numbers, either. 

I had one dealer up here accuse me of trying to “steal” a stelvio. 

I didn't go too crazy in my inquiry, I don't think. Gave stock number and asked for best 24/12 lease price, and to please include breakdown of discount/incentives/MF in the quote. 

Its fine. I have yet to drive a Ti sport anyway. Maybe I can find time tomorrow.

roadburner

nyccarguy said:

breld said:

Check out this 340i xdrive at the same place I’m getting the Miata from:

340i M sport Manual

And it is a 2016 which means you get maintenance paid for on BMW’s dime!

I don't think free maintenance transfers to a subsequent buyer after MY 2015.

mjfloyd1

roadburner said:

breld said:

Check out this 340i xdrive at the same place I’m getting the Miata from: 340i M sport Manual

And it is a 2016 which means you get maintenance paid for on BMW’s dime!

I don't think free maintenance transfers to a subsequent buyer after MY 2015.

That strikes me as odd that the maintenance only is for first owner. Isn’t the CPO the same now- it only covers the owner that originally bought the car CPO?

kyfdx

mjfloyd1 said:

roadburner said:

nyccarguy said:

breld said:

Check out this 340i xdrive at the same place I’m getting the Miata from:

340i M sport Manual

And it is a 2016 which means you get maintenance paid for on BMW’s dime!

I don't think free maintenance transfers to a subsequent buyer after MY 2015.

That strikes me as odd that the maintenance only is for first owner. Isn’t the CPO the same now- it only covers the owner that originally bought the car CPO?

They've cut back on a lot of stuff regarding maintenance and CPO warranties. BMW owners really appreciated those perks and the cost savings, but I don't think it translated to actually bringing in more sales, or conquests from other makes. All you have to do it listen to people that don't own BMWs say how that "service isn't really free, it's just a couple of oil changes, etc, etc".

So, I can see why they made changes, but it still sucks that they did.

nyccarguy

kyfdx said:

mjfloyd1 said:

roadburner said:

nyccarguy said:

breld said:

Check out this 340i xdrive at the same place I’m getting the Miata from:

340i M sport Manual

And it is a 2016 which means you get maintenance paid for on BMW’s dime!

I don't think free maintenance transfers to a subsequent buyer after MY 2015.

That strikes me as odd that the maintenance only is for first owner. Isn’t the CPO the same now- it only covers the owner that originally bought the car CPO?

They've cut back on a lot of stuff regarding maintenance and CPO warranties. BMW owners really appreciated those perks and the cost savings, but I don't think it translated to actually bringing in more sales, or conquests from other makes. All you have to do it listen to people that don't own BMWs say how that "service isn't really free, it's just a couple of oil changes, etc, etc".

So, I can see why they made changes, but it still sucks that they did.

The average 36 month/10K per year or 36 month/12K per year lease really didn't get much more than a few oil changes. I did quite well with the 30 month/20K per year lease I took out on my 2011 328xi as far as covered maintenance goes.

breld

xwesx said:

corvette said:

If you count breld's stepdaughter's recent purchase, he's running 10 cars in the trailing 12 months, including the 2016 Mercedes GLC he bought a year ago today (congrats!)...

So, he slowed down a little in the last year! Good for him!

And, to be fair, I'm not officially purchasing the Miata until this afternoon, so the GLC rolls off the trailing 12.

breld

qbrozen said:

28firefighter said:

Some Alfa dealers are getting overwhelmed with email because of leasehackr. Not by people who understand the numbers, either. 

I had one dealer up here accuse me of trying to “steal” a stelvio. 

I didn't go too crazy in my inquiry, I don't think. Gave stock number and asked for best 24/12 lease price, and to please include breakdown of discount/incentives/MF in the quote. 

Its fine. I have yet to drive a Ti sport anyway. Maybe I can find time tomorrow.

In some of my recent dealings on a lease, it sure seems some managers despise having to disclose the "secrets" behind the payments. Or, in some cases, truly don't know what's going on behind the paper.

This past weekend, when I was helping negotiate the lease on my wife's friend's Kona, I had my nifty little spreadsheet handy simply to double check the offered payment. When the offered monthly payment differed from my calculations, I simply wanted to understand the difference. The manager couldn't say anything other than insisting that their system must be right. I just waited until we were in the Finance office, and that individual was able to explain it just fine - there was up-front tax on the sizable rebate, and they rolled the first payment into the cap cost too. That's all I wanted to know.

stickguy

Did you drive it? How does she like it? That really interested me.

pensfan83

It seems the sales side either despise people who understand how leasing works because the ability to hide profit in the deal is greatly diminished if not eliminated or they welcome someone with knowledge because it streamlines negotiations. This of course assumes the sales side is knowledgeable about leasing themselves, which isn't as guaranteed as it should be

breld

Wife and I went to drive the silver Macan today:

2016 Macan S

Not surprisingly, and as predicted by many here, it was a very nice ride. More "intentional" I'd say in its sportiness than, say, an SQ5. The balance between capable handling and ride quality is superb. And I honestly can't tell you much of anything about the engine and transmission as far as specs, but that drivetrain was amazing - shifts were incredibly smooth and quick.

What was surprising, was that while the Macan is most certainly on the list as an eventual replacement for the Polestar, and probably at the top of that list, my wife wasn't moved so much as to consider doing anything right now. She does love her wagon and appreciates all it offers, particularly at the price point we paid.

breld

stickguy said:

Did you drive it? How does she like it? That really interested me.

I actually did not drive it, but certainly admired it from afar. She got the Limited model (with the 1.6t) in the Lime Green...with the Lime Green accents inside. Apparently that is a fairly rare find, and fits our friend's personality and desires to a tee. We happily endorsed our friend's choice in color since it went along with a very competent vehicle...unlike something like a bright orange Fiat 500x.

Michaell

pensfan83 said:

It seems the sales side either despise people who understand how leasing works because the ability to hide profit in the deal is greatly diminished if not eliminated or they welcome someone with knowledge because it streamlines negotiations. This of course assumes the sales side is knowledgeable about leasing themselves, which isn't as guaranteed as it should be

That would describe my experience when I leased the Jetta. Both the sales person and the sales manager were incredibly transparent with me about all of the numbers, and we were able to reach a deal in less than 30 minutes. The only reason it took that long was because we had to address the issue of the disposition of my old Elantra GT (Over miles, damage to the rear bumper, two remaining lease payments).

nyccarguy

breld said:

Wife and I went to drive the silver Macan today:

2016 Macan S

Not surprisingly, and as predicted by many here, it was a very nice ride. More "intentional" I'd say in its sportiness than, say, an SQ5. The balance between capable handling and ride quality is superb. And I honestly can't tell you much of anything about the engine and transmission as far as specs, but that drivetrain was amazing - shifts were incredibly smooth and quick.

What was surprising, was that while the Macan is most certainly on the list as an eventual replacement for the Polestar, and probably at the top of that list, my wife wasn't moved so much as to consider doing anything right now. She does love her wagon and appreciates all it offers, particularly at the price point we paid.

3.0L Turbo V6 - 360hp - 8 Speed A/T - AWD

stickguy

Nice on the Kona. the 1.6t is definitely the way to go for performance. I sat in one in the showroom and was impressed. Basically a bit taller, boxy, roomier version of my car (at least vertical space), with the same chassis just slightly detuned. So likely still fun to drive. Oh, and it actually has some sidewall height. Given a choice, it fits my desires better. A big bonus, they include the power drivers seat in the limited.

not worth it to me to trade up to it though. If I am flipping the Sport, it will be for something fancier and a bit more "luxurious"

stickguy

was consulting on a possible upgrade for my sister. This is the one that I got my 3.2TL from (10 years ago already, time flies). the TSX she replaced it with (a 2009) has been good. A bit dinged around. But mostly, way way out of date tech wise. Doesn't even have a BU camera, and not sure my sister ever really got the bluetooth to work. No Navi either. So, basically a dinosaur.

she is starting a new job next week, that will likely involve regular commuting around DC on the beltway, so something newer, with more safety and comfort goodies, makes sense. The TSX has about 98K on it.

sent her some links to 2017 and 2018 CPO TLXs with the tech package. She definitely wants the BU camera and car play, and is loving the idea of blind spot monitoring. Plus the nice connectivity. Pretty sure while we chatted it went from "considering it", to "wonder how soon I can find something?"

told her to go try out a 2017 and 2018 to see if the car was what she wanted (it's a bit bigger than what she has or really needs), and if she sits high enough (she finds her car too low). And to compare the pre and post refresh models.

Pretty sure she will stick with one of those. I know she had a loaner that she really liked. But, could be supplying more options at some point (Acura desperately needs a CUV to slot in below the RDX I think). Just not sure what!

henryn

A week or so back, I made a comment about not having yet used the built in Navigation in my new F150, and mentioning that made me think to try it out. One day last week, I turned it on for my commute home.

Things went well for the first few blocks, then the voice tells me,

“In 100 yards, turn left onto the Southwest Freeway”

At that point, I was a good half mile (maybe a little more) away from the Southwest Freeway. While I’m wondering if I really heard that, or if it was some kind of drug flashback from the 60’s, the voice comes on again,

“Turn left now onto the Southwest Freeway”

Say what? WTH did you just say??? By this point I’m talking back to the thing. I decided to leave it alone, see what other insanities it would come up with. But after that it regained it’s sanity and gave me legitimate instructions.

But of course, now I don’t trust it. At all. For anything. And this is not something to take to the dealer. I learned decades ago, never go to the dealer with anything that you can’t prove, right here, right now. If it’s some kind of occasional glitch, you will NEVER get help from the dealer.

ON EDIT: and by the way, when I eventually reach the freeway, I go right, not left.

ab348

The discussion on here about the Kona made me look at the Hyundai Canada web site. Oddly enough it seems that they offer different trim levels and different model names for each than in the USA which confuses things. Here, if you want the Turbo you can pay $27K for the "Trend" trim or $5K more for the "Ultimate". That extra buys you the safety nannies, Nav and a better sound system, leather seats (with some limited color choice unlike the cloth in the Trend) and LED headlights. If you order it in either the black, dark charcoal or blue paint you can choose grey leather which looks nice in the pictures at least. I thought I would like the blue but saw one on my street today and it was not the shade I expected and didn't work for me. Actually looked rather dull. In one of the US reviews I saw a reference to Tangerine piping on the black seats if you picked the Tangerine paint on the Ultimate but that does not seem available here. All other trims only offer black inside regardless of color, either in cloth or leather.

Michaell

stickguy said:

Nice on the Kona. the 1.6t is definitely the way to go for performance. I sat in one in the showroom and was impressed. Basically a bit taller, boxy, roomier version of my car (at least vertical space), with the same chassis just slightly detuned. So likely still fun to drive. Oh, and it actually has some sidewall height. Given a choice, it fits my desires better. A big bonus, they include the power drivers seat in the limited.

not worth it to me to trade up to it though. If I am flipping the Sport, it will be for something fancier and a bit more "luxurious"

When my son bought his ElantraGT in May, he really wanted a Kona. Just out of his price range.

stickguy

funny. The Kona is actually cheaper for a higher line model. Might be reversed on the cheaper lines.

breld

Picked her up this afternoon and had a fun commute home.  I’m not saying I’d want to do it everyday, but even in rush hour it was fun running around with the top down.  

nyccarguy

I really like it @breld .  The color looks great too!  So the hard top stores in the car, right?

breld

Yup - I'll take some pics of it later on with the top down. It's not home right now - in spite of not liking my 2009 Yellow Miata soft top, my wife decided to take this new Miata out this evening!

Drivingfool

Hey, that blue over blue Mini Cooper is just what I want in the exact color combo! I know it's probably a dumb move to buy a new Mini Cooper but my inner me really wants that exact vehicle.
Am sure I'd get used to any little issues and hope they've improved the overall ride of the vehicle. It just screams me!!

roadburner

breld said:

Picked her up this afternoon and had a fun commute home.  I’m not saying I’d want to do it everyday, but even in rush hour it was fun running around with the top down.  

Nice! I'd get one if Mazda would ever make a true coupe, as droptops leave me cold.

stickguy

just pretend it is a sunroof, and never open it. problem solved.

breld

So initial thoughts...

Overall, it feels more or less the same as my '09, which is to say it's great and very rewarding to drive.

Particularly in today's day and age, a sub-2,500 lb, RWD vehicle offers a unique experience, and that's coming from someone who comes far from pushing a car to its limits. Just taking on a curvy road, or an on-ramp...or simply taking a simple corner...everything seems so effortless and natural.

155 hp goes a long way in this car. Artificial or not, the growl from the 4 cylinder is a hoot. It epitomizes the sentiment of "driving a slow car fast." Having said that, it is legitimately quick. Clutch feel and take-up are great, and the shifter is about the best I've experienced, certainly right up there with the best from Honda.

Aesthetically, I really like the sharper lines of this new model - whether it be the soft top of this RF. But the lines of the RF are very pleasing, in my opinion. If you want a true convertible with no obstructions all around, then the soft top is the way to go. But I like the targa-like experience in the RF.

Comfort is unexpectedly good - even at 6' 3" I can drive and shift comfortably. Of course, my legs are a bit splayed out, but more than tolerable...and much more comfortable than the 911 we drove earlier in the week, or the S2000 which I test drove years ago. Suspension is well tuned with no harsh feeling or sound over bumps.

breld

Drivingfool said:

Hey, that blue over blue Mini Cooper is just what I want in the exact color combo! I know it's probably a dumb move to buy a new Mini Cooper but my inner me really wants that exact vehicle.
Am sure I'd get used to any little issues and hope they've improved the overall ride of the vehicle. It just screams me!!

Interestingly enough, I was told the couple who traded in the Miata also traded in that Mini. I can't remember what they traded them in on, but that Mini Countryman is a manual too.

nyccarguy

breld said:

So initial thoughts... Overall, it feels more or less the same as my '09, which is to say it's great and very rewarding to drive. Particularly in today's day and age, a sub-2,500 lb, RWD vehicle offers a unique experience, and that's coming from someone who comes far from pushing a car to its limits. Just taking on a curvy road, or an on-ramp...or simply taking a simple corner...everything seems so effortless and natural. 155 hp goes a long way in this car. Artificial or not, the growl from the 4 cylinder is a hoot. It epitomizes the sentiment of "driving a slow car fast." Having said that, it is legitimately quick. Clutch feel and take-up are great, and the shifter is about the best I've experienced, certainly right up there with the best from Honda. Aesthetically, I really like the sharper lines of this new model - whether it be the soft top of this RF. But the lines of the RF are very pleasing, in my opinion. If you want a true convertible with no obstructions all around, then the soft top is the way to go. But I like the targa-like experience in the RF. Comfort is unexpectedly good - even at 6' 3" I can drive and shift comfortably. Of course, my legs are a bit splayed out, but more than tolerable...and much more comfortable than the 911 we drove earlier in the week, or the S2000 which I test drove years ago. Suspension is well tuned with no harsh feeling or sound over bumps.

I’m sold.  I want one now!

breld

nyccarguy said:

breld said:

So initial thoughts...

Overall, it feels more or less the same as my '09, which is to say it's great and very rewarding to drive.

Particularly in today's day and age, a sub-2,500 lb, RWD vehicle offers a unique experience, and that's coming from someone who comes far from pushing a car to its limits. Just taking on a curvy road, or an on-ramp...or simply taking a simple corner...everything seems so effortless and natural.

155 hp goes a long way in this car. Artificial or not, the growl from the 4 cylinder is a hoot. It epitomizes the sentiment of "driving a slow car fast." Having said that, it is legitimately quick. Clutch feel and take-up are great, and the shifter is about the best I've experienced, certainly right up there with the best from Honda.

Aesthetically, I really like the sharper lines of this new model - whether it be the soft top of this RF. But the lines of the RF are very pleasing, in my opinion. If you want a true convertible with no obstructions all around, then the soft top is the way to go. But I like the targa-like experience in the RF.

Comfort is unexpectedly good - even at 6' 3" I can drive and shift comfortably. Of course, my legs are a bit splayed out, but more than tolerable...and much more comfortable than the 911 we drove earlier in the week, or the S2000 which I test drove years ago. Suspension is well tuned with no harsh feeling or sound over bumps.

I’m sold.  I want one now!

Well, I know it's a different beast than the Prelude, but it was the test drives of the Prelude and Integra earlier this week that got me nostalgic for that high-revving naturally aspirated 4 cylinder feel. For me, this was a way to get that in a modern vehicle.

And the way Preludes seems to be appreciating, you'll be able to trade straight across for a new Miata soon!

stickguy

I want one too! But I think this has to be something for the future, when I can have it as a toy. Along with something relatively cheap to serve as a DD.

ab348

Wait for the 2019 Miata, it gets more power. 

stickguy

my 2001 had plenty for me. And I know the later generations are faster. C&D published 6.1 0-60. And it is a car all about balance and handling, not running for pinks!

28firefighter

Nice @breld!

breld

Here are some pics of the operation of the top.  The fastback haunches raises up first, then the top folds into two sections plus the rear window, and lowers into the same space otherwise occupied by the soft top.  Then the fastback portion comes back down.  So, like the previous PRHT, there’s no sacrifice of trunk space for the hardtop (little as there is).  Quite a feat of engineering I’d say.  

Sorry for the poor quality - just having fun in the garage.  

stickguy

still gives me nightmares of owning it out of warranty though, when part of that contraption decides to crap out.

something to be said for a fully manual soft top. Though having the targa buttresses back there is more comforting than just having your head hanging out in the breeze.

qbrozen

Internet salesguy at the MD Alfa dealer emailed this evening. Did he address any of my questions? Of course not. I got the "hey, when can you come in for a test drive?" I replied with my same request.

breld

That’s annoying, but sometimes going in is the only way to get down to the business of really talking numbers. Could be a fun trip over the holiday weekend?

28firefighter

I don’t mind that in the initial email. It lets me get right down to business. 

I do not set foot in a dealer to negotiate leases. Waste of time. Everything over email with a deposit and credit app to hold the car. 

sb55

stickguy said:

still gives me nightmares of owning it out of warranty though, when part of that contraption decides to crap out.

something to be said for a fully manual soft top. Though having the targa buttresses back there is more comforting than just having your head hanging out in the breeze.

My 2007 1st year Miata PRHT (Power Retractable Hard Top) is still going strong. I love this car and it has never been back to the dealer for anything. I have no fear of owning this car for another 11 years

nyccarguy

sb55 said:

stickguy said:

still gives me nightmares of owning it out of warranty though, when part of that contraption decides to crap out.

something to be said for a fully manual soft top. Though having the targa buttresses back there is more comforting than just having your head hanging out in the breeze.

My 2007 1st year Miata PRHT (Power Retractable Hard Top) is still going strong. I love this car and it has never been back to the dealer for anything. I have no fear of owning this car for another 11 years

Between the Air Stream, the Silverado with the 6.2, & the Diesel 5er, I completely forgot you have a Miata! How many miles do you currently have on it?

nyccarguy

Looks great @breld

pensfan83

@breld looks good, congrats. I like the creased bodywork as well.

Mr_Shiftright

henryn said:

A week or so back, I made a comment about not having yet used the built in Navigation in my new F150, and mentioning that made me think to try it out. One day last week, I turned it on for my commute home.

Things went well for the first few blocks, then the voice tells me,

“In 100 yards, turn left onto the Southwest Freeway”

At that point, I was a good half mile (maybe a little more) away from the Southwest Freeway. While I’m wondering if I really heard that, or if it was some kind of drug flashback from the 60’s, the voice comes on again,

“Turn left now onto the Southwest Freeway”

Say what? WTH did you just say??? By this point I’m talking back to the thing. I decided to leave it alone, see what other insanities it would come up with. But after that it regained it’s sanity and gave me legitimate instructions.

But of course, now I don’t trust it. At all. For anything. And this is not something to take to the dealer. I learned decades ago, never go to the dealer with anything that you can’t prove, right here, right now. If it’s some kind of occasional glitch, you will NEVER get help from the dealer.

ON EDIT: and by the way, when I eventually reach the freeway, I go right, not left.

GPS needs a certain number of satellites to make a calculation. If it's relying on just one or two, it could indeed be off course. In any event, it's normal to be off 30 yards or so, but not too much more than that.

ab348

I have only used the nav in the ATS for experimental purposes so far, but one thing it does is similar to @henryn's experience and I wasn't impressed. I was letting it give me directions to a place I knew how to get to anyway and as I approached the paring lot I took a more convenient entrance than the one it wanted. I parked the car, went inside and did my business, came back out and started to drive home. The thing just picked up where it left off and started giving me directions back to the place I just came from, telling me to turn around every chance it had. There was no convenient Cancel button I could see so I had to wait at a red light to dive into the menus and tell it to forget about it. Bad design.

tjc78

ab348 said:

I have only used the nav in the ATS for experimental purposes so far, but one thing it does is similar to @henryn's experience and I wasn't impressed. I was letting it give me directions to a place I knew how to get to anyway and as I approached the paring lot I took a more convenient entrance than the one it wanted. I parked the car, went inside and did my business, came back out and started to drive home. The thing just picked up where it left off and started giving me directions back to the place I just came from, telling me to turn around every chance it had. There was no convenient Cancel button I could see so I had to wait at a red light to dive into the menus and tell it to forget about it. Bad design.

My Enclave does that, but two quick button pushes cancels guidance.  

I have no complaints with the NAV in that car.   The other night I had to go into Northeast Philly, then into the western suburbs (King of Prussia) and back home to South Jersey.  It was 100% accurate.   

28firefighter

My limited experience with Nav has generally been positive. Planning to use the Stelvio's nav on the way home tonight.

I'm headed down there after work this afternoon on the Sounder.

fintail

I've never had a real issue with factory nav. On my old E55, it was aged enough to where some local streets didn't exist. Now that I think about it, the nav in the rental Jaguar in Germany got really confused and took me to a seemingly random location once, but I kind of expected that.

ab348

tjc78 said:

My Enclave does that, but two quick button pushes cancels guidance.

My problem was that I didn't see any button to push.
As I've said before on here, I seem to have some sort of mental block when it comes to nav and smartphone maps. I can never get my head around how to make them do what I think I want.

qbrozen

alright... here is the offer on the table. Only odd thing is he claims its Ally, but the numbers are exactly what Chrysler Capitol has (.00009 and 60%). He didn't break down the incentives like I asked. Anyway, we're really not that far off. Another $1k discount would do it, and I might be able to get $500 of that from truecar if they send me the discount number. FF, still waiting to hear about your final deal. What kind of pre-incentive discount did you get?

Our discount is $6,090 the rebates and incentives are $5,250 which get you to a sales price of $36,750, the residual is 60%, and the money factor is .22% (we use Ally financial who uses an interest rate not a money factor).

The payment comes to $423.99 for 24 months 12,000 miles per year. This deal is good today only, if you would like to proceed you will need to fill out a credit application today to lock in the deal.

henryn

^^^ How much DAS (due at signing)?