Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous

kyfdx

corvette said:

@tommister2 It’s white like the Tahoe. I’m not very original when it comes to color choices!

Driving home today?

benjaminh

Video of a new 2020 CR-V hybrid Touring. Starting at c. 9 minutes and after that you can sometimes hear the somewhat weird high revs of the engine that sometimes happen when not at full throttle. Still, this is an awesome powertrain that gets good acceleration and high mpg, and so far seems reliable. My brother-in-law has only had scheduled maintenance after 6 years of ownership of his Accord hybrid, which has a similar powertrain.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4L-IO_fDUMU

suydam

Re the CRV. It is noisy till it gets up to speed, so you have to decide if that would bother you. Surprising because my Accord was so quiet. @stick — I missed some posts — what car is your wife considering?

stickguy

the CRV hyrbid. pending how the driving dynamics are. she also likes the RDX. also taking a look at the Volvo XC60 and BMW X3, just because we can!

edit: Forgot the other mainstream front runner. Santa Fe 2.0t limited,

explorerx4

I think the CR-V has a different drive train than 2014 Accord hybrid.
Engine and 2 electric motors, no 'transmission'.

ab348

The front lower grille/splitter/whatever looks odd from a side angle. That is not unique to the hybrid model though.

I like the sales guy in that video. He is knowledgeable but not super-slick... "what the hell is this?!?" :laughing:

tjc78

corvette said:

Typing this on my phone, so can’t upload photos. I pulled the trigger on a 2/24k lease on a Tundra from a broker on Leasehackr. Picked a TRD Off-road package model with side steps and a spray in bed liner. Booked my flight to Philadelphia for today.

Got past TSA at the airport this morning and the salesman called. They scraped another car when pulling my truck out for detail. Obviously they can’t sell me a damaged vehicle, but they have an almost identical one with the sport package instead of the off road package. MSRP is about 1k more but they will sell it to me for the same price as the one I picked out. So I ended up with the “street” package (which I’d rather have anyway) instead of the off-road. Park assist, BSM, cross traffic alert, 38 gallon fuel tank, LED headlights, CarPlay, WiFi... FCW and adaptive cruise are standard. Despite being at the end of its lifecycle, they’ve really added a lot of content to the Tundra to try to keep it competitive.

I’ll post pics when I get home.

It's funny. That dealer that offers those screaming broker deals on Tundras, wouldn't play ball when I leased the RAV4 for my mother. I guess they save their loser deals for the brokers.

I would rather have the sport package as well.

tjc78

@qbrozen
Every since viewing your ad for your Dad's F250 Ebay emails me several times a day suggesting F250s for sale.

Big Brother is real.

benjaminh

explorerx4 said:

I think the CR-V has a different drive train than 2014 Accord hybrid.
Engine and 2 electric motors, no 'transmission'.

I think the hybrid on the new CR-V is similar to the one that debuted on the 2014 Accord Hybrid....

https://hondanews.com/en-US/honda-automobiles/releases/release-357366bbc5124bdbbe8e8783404c1190-2014-honda-accord-hybrid-sedan

"2014 Honda Accord Hybrid Press Kit....
The Accord Hybrid is not equipped with a conventional physical transmission. Instead, the Electric Continuously Variable Transmission (E-CVT) consists of the interaction of the Accord Hybrid's gasoline engine and two electric motors. Coordinated by the IPU, the E-CVT offers smooth and predictable acceleration matched with efficient low-rpm highway cruising when the gasoline engine is in operation. Gasoline engine shutdown is seamlessly integrated into the operation of the Accord Hybrid when appropriate.

The E-CVT system, unlike other full hybrid systems, operates without the need for a torque converter, mechanical pulley or belt. It instead uses two motors for driving and generating power. Unlike a conventional CVT, E-CVT is optimally and rapidly able to control both engine and electric motor rotation in order to deliver higher fuel efficiency and quicker engine response in each driving mode."

This powertrain was updated for the 2018 Accord, and updated again for the 2020 CR-V hybrid, but I think it's all an evolution of one system that Honda developed.

stickguy

it is the same powertrain as the current Accord. I don't know if exactly the same as the 2014. I thought I read it was updated at some point for the new model Accord though.

explorerx4

I did a search on 2020 CR-V hybrid transmission and came up with nothing.

Did find this:
The 2020 Honda CR-V Hybrid comes with a 2.0-liter Atkinson cycle gasoline engine, two electric motors, and a hybrid battery pack. And there’s no conventional CVT automatic or any transmission for that matter. The vehicle achieves propulsion in three ways, depending on the behavior of your right foot. The modes are Hybrid Drive, Engine Drive, and EV Mode.

In Hybrid Drive, the gasoline engine drives a generator, which in turn powers the electric motor to move the front wheels. When traction is low, an electronic clutch activates to send power from the motor to the rear wheels. The CR-V Hybrid is the first all-wheel drive vehicle to utilize Honda’s two-motor hybrid system.

fintail

It's Sporty! Exciting! Aggressive! Dynamic! Stylish!

Like the past couple CRV, it has an underbite. No faux floating C-pillar though, so it has that on the RAV4.

ab348 said:

The front lower grille/splitter/whatever looks odd from a side angle. That is not unique to the hybrid model though.

I like the sales guy in that video. He is knowledgeable but not super-slick... "what the hell is this?!?" :laughing:

tommister2

When we were Hybrid shopping last summer the Honda hybrids were very noisy. Hopefully they quiet down things for the CR-V Hybrid. We bought a Rav4 Hybrid and have been very happy. At the time the hybrid premium was about $800, well worth it for us. Plus the hybrid Rav4 is more powerful than the gas one (like the CR-V will be). It’s a good time to be hybrid shopping- many new options are out there!

oldfarmer50

tjc78 said:

@qbrozen
Every since viewing your ad for your Dad's F250 Ebay emails me several times a day suggesting F250s for sale.

Big Brother is real.

Wow, those 90s Fords must be something special.

stickguy

tommister2 said:

When we were Hybrid shopping last summer the Honda hybrids were very noisy. Hopefully they quiet down things for the CR-V Hybrid. We bought a Rav4 Hybrid and have been very happy. At the time the hybrid premium was about $800, well worth it for us. Plus the hybrid Rav4 is more powerful than the gas one (like the CR-V will be). It’s a good time to be hybrid shopping- many new options are out there!

good to know. I suppose we will swing through the Toyota dealer too, just to compare. I know we sat in one at the car show (no clue what trim level) and it seemed OK, but hard to tell in that context. Being able to explore at leisure in the showroom, and take one for a spin, can give a much different opinion.

they are pricier though. XLE is missing a number of desired features, and a RAV Limited is about 10% more money (MSRP) vs. a CRV touring,

qbrozen

tjc78 said:

@qbrozen
Every since viewing your ad for your Dad's F250 Ebay emails me several times a day suggesting F250s for sale.

Big Brother is real.

I despise that practice. Click on one thing one time and you are targeted for months.

tjc78

Yep Ebay and Amazon are masters of it!

@oldfarmer50
Those squarebody Fords have a following and all bets are off if they are diesels.

Sandman6472

Remember when testing the Lexus 200 HT's a few years back, they all made a loud racket when accelerating, and my wife questioning the sales guy as to why they all did that. Of course, he played dumb and said it wasn't very noticeable! And, it really was, so much so, that we finally walked away. Besides the noise issue, I liked it, a lot, and probably would have one in the garage today.

Sandman6472

After delivering a Ram truck to Vero Beach Buick/GMC yesterday, saw an intriguing vehicle in front. A beautiful metallic gray 5-door which turned out to be a new 2020 Buick Encore GX. It's a really nice small hatch, 172" as compared to 168" for the regular Buick Encore. Sitting inside, hard to tell where they put the extra 4" to be honest. Wasn't a base model, think it was the "Premium" mid model, and definitely one that's now on my short list. Am very interesting in driving one soon, after they've been out for awhile. Only complaint is it doesn't have a tablet style infotainment system, something I've come to really like, no matter how quirky it is. And that gray metallic was a nice color also, ivory interior.
So, looking like 2020 might just be a good year to pull the trigger, eventually. Luckily, all is well with the Golf and just over the 63K mark. Averaging about 45 miles/week which ain't to bad. Next month I'll get it on the turnpike for my short trip to St. Cloud which will be good for it. Still wanting to test drive the Kia Seltos and see how it drives.

Sandman6472

We were talking in the chase vehicle yesterday, and the subject of driving rental vehicles came up. I had the longest time frame in this business, just over 7 years now, as I started in January of 2013. One other guy had been doing it 5 years and a third, 4. Folks seem to come and go like any part time job, but a bunch of the others in my office have been doing it for a few years also. It's not really a hard job, kind of fun actually, and nice getting to drive most of the new vehicles out there. Think OF would agree with me on how cool a job it is. And getting the 401K and profit sharing is nice also.
Feel very lucky to have gotten into this kind of work actually. And the best part is that I can always cut back a day or two depending on my situation. And most of the other folks are pretty cool. Sure, there are a few jerks but, you'd find that anywhere.

Sandman6472

Passed a Popeye's in Okeechobee City yesterday and since it was about 12:57, lead driver decided we'd be having lunch there. Had the mild chicken sandwich with just mayo, and it was great. Passed on the fries, had a few of the other guys and had a slight kick to them, excellent fries. For the most part, have stopped bringing my lunch, and eat wherever we stop. The Pizza Hut's in the service plaza's of the turnpike have a decent meat lovers personal pie which ain't too bad...it's decent. A few of the crew bring their lunches on a daily basis, but after a couple of days, I get a bit bored, so picking up a burger or chicken sandwich just works for me.

akangl

I really need to stop driving past the Jeep dealership. There is a 2019 Wrangler Rubicon that is calling my name. Its everything I want and nothing I don't.....I don't need another punch this year. Daughter's Compass and the RV make 2, I do not need to make it 3!

corvette

tjc78 said:

It's funny. That dealer that offers those screaming broker deals on Tundras, wouldn't play ball when I leased the RAV4 for my mother. I guess they save their loser deals for the brokers.

My salesman gave me a little insight on that, during the few minutes I interacted with him. Supposedly, they are the #1 Toyota truck dealer in the area--most other nearby dealers only keep a handful of trucks on the lot--and I guess they want to keep it that way (and are probably getting bonuses from corporate) by keeping their volume up. So, they're probably just average on the car/CUV side of things.

corvette

Easy-ish drive home... Took the southern route through WV. Got some snow and salt there. Here's the truck - I like the blacked out emblems much better than the gold emblems that used to plague the lots of Toyota and Lexus dealers in the 1990s.

corvette

Really impressed with the truck. The adaptive cruise control will take some getting used to, and doesn't work well when people are stacked up waiting for someone to complete a pass on the interstate (it leaves a large gap and inevitably, some jerk will pass on the right to get in the gap to get one place ahead, then it slams on the brakes after they do so).

The driving experience is, overall, much better than I expected. It's quiet, it feels solid, the shifts are smooth. The ride is better than the Tahoe. CarPlay is amazing. The LED headlights work really well on both high and low beam. The powertrain is the only dead giveaway that this is an older model--the six speed automatic transmission could use a couple more gears.

A couple of things annoyed me. The gas tank has a capacity of 38 gallons, but it started screaming bloody murder and showing a range of under 20 miles when there were over six gallons left in the tank (I filled up with 32 after driving 10-20 miles with the low fuel warning). There was also a horrible alternator whine around 60 MPH when using CarPlay to stream podcasts--I'm going to try using a different Lightning cable to see whether that remedies the issue.

I filled up twice. First tank was ~11 MPG, second tank was around ~12.5, which is worse than I was expecting. Driving around 80 on the interstate where conditions permitted. I hope the mileage improves once it's broken in.

corvette

I'm still kind of clueless as to how the US Bank leases work on these trucks, perhaps one of the other members here can clue me in. My purchase agreement only shows a manufacturer rebate of $2,000 and a mid-four figure discount from MSRP.

Does Toyota pay some sort of subsidy to US Bank? On a cash purchase or loan, I was under the impression that the total discount on most full size trucks, regardless of make, was closer to $8-10,000.

Anyway, the buyout (including "purchase option fee") is a whopping $39,929 on a $50k truck.

28firefighter

Congrats on the punch! Looks great. But that mileage - yikes!

explorerx4

@corvette,
Tundra seems to be rated 13/18, so maybe 15 overall?
If you weren't short term leasing, I would recommend a bed cover.
They are good for a 5 to 10 improvement in fuel mileage.
Maybe the ACC has a distance option, my F150 does.
The low fuel warning may change as mileage normalizes.

breld

@corvette - congrats on the truck! I really like the look of the white with the black accents. Handsome!

Michaell

corvette said:

I'm still kind of clueless as to how the US Bank leases work on these trucks, perhaps one of the other members here can clue me in. My purchase agreement only shows a manufacturer rebate of $2,000 and a mid-four figure discount from MSRP.

Does Toyota pay some sort of subsidy to US Bank? On a cash purchase or loan, I was under the impression that the total discount on most full size trucks, regardless of make, was closer to $8-10,000.

Anyway, the buyout (including "purchase option fee") is a whopping $39,929 on a $50k truck.

The last line explains it - not many vehicles have an 80% residual.

US Bank has their own lease programs. High residual, but also likely a high MF, too.

ab348

28firefighter said:

Congrats on the punch! Looks great. But that mileage - yikes!

Likewise on the congrats but the mileage numbers are stunning to me. A F-150 is rated 20/26/22 and is much larger. I don’t understand.

tommister2

@corvette I put ~8700 miles on my 2018 Tundra and averaged 15.5 MPG. Hopefully yours gets better after a few tanks. My worst tank was 15 and my best was 16.7, so not a whole lot of variance for me. The low fuel warning coming on too soon is a common compliant on most Toyota models. I'm used to it but I understand how it can be annoying. Our Civic has the opposite problem - when the light comes on we find there's typically less than 2 gallons of gas left! I don't typically let things get that low anyway.

As for the adaptive cruise - you can adjust the following distance (there are three levels to choose and the max distance is the default). It is very reactive to what it sees as people cutting you off. I find myself using cancel and resume, kind of like you would do without adaptive cruise...however I don't have to do it quite as much as I would without adaptive cruise. I do really like it when traffic is heavy but moving because it will slow down automagically and then resume your set speed when the traffic picks up speed again, all without having to do anything.

Congrats again - beautiful truck!

tommister2

ab348 said:

28firefighter said:

Congrats on the punch! Looks great. But that mileage - yikes!

Likewise on the congrats but the mileage numbers are stunning to me. A F-150 is rated 20/26/22 and is much larger. I don’t understand.

I'm curious how an F-150 is much larger than a Tundra. I've never checked the specs but they seem very similar in size. I would bet the F-150 is considerably lighter given all of the aluminium body panels.

nyccarguy

@corvette

NICE TRUCK! I’m happy for you! Great color/option combination. As @tommister2 said, there is an adjustment button for how much room to leave between you and the vehicle in front of you.

I’m glad you had a safe trip home and a positive dealership experience.

kyfdx

corvette said:

I'm still kind of clueless as to how the US Bank leases work on these trucks, perhaps one of the other members here can clue me in. My purchase agreement only shows a manufacturer rebate of $2,000 and a mid-four figure discount from MSRP.

Does Toyota pay some sort of subsidy to US Bank? On a cash purchase or loan, I was under the impression that the total discount on most full size trucks, regardless of make, was closer to $8-10,000.

Anyway, the buyout (including "purchase option fee") is a whopping $39,929 on a $50k truck.

We can reverse engineer the money factor from the Rent Charge, if you have the specifics. When I leased the Tacoma in 2017, it was .00165 (which may have been marked up). US Bank leases include GAP, unlike TFS leases.

akangl

corvette said:

Really impressed with the truck. The adaptive cruise control will take some getting used to, and doesn't work well when people are stacked up waiting for someone to complete a pass on the interstate (it leaves a large gap and inevitably, some jerk will pass on the right to get in the gap to get one place ahead, then it slams on the brakes after they do so).

The driving experience is, overall, much better than I expected. It's quiet, it feels solid, the shifts are smooth. The ride is better than the Tahoe. CarPlay is amazing. The LED headlights work really well on both high and low beam. The powertrain is the only dead giveaway that this is an older model--the six speed automatic transmission could use a couple more gears.

A couple of things annoyed me. The gas tank has a capacity of 38 gallons, but it started screaming bloody murder and showing a range of under 20 miles when there were over six gallons left in the tank (I filled up with 32 after driving 10-20 miles with the low fuel warning). There was also a horrible alternator whine around 60 MPH when using CarPlay to stream podcasts--I'm going to try using a different Lightning cable to see whether that remedies the issue.

I filled up twice. First tank was ~11 MPG, second tank was around ~12.5, which is worse than I was expecting. Driving around 80 on the interstate where conditions permitted. I hope the mileage improves once it's broken in.

Adaptive cruise is an amazing option! I had it on my '14 Explorer and have it on my '17 Jeep, I keep it adjusted to the closest setting but sometimes people just can't help but squeeze in, I try to watch them and close the gap. The Jeep's adaptive cruise is flawless, I can use it on our road with stop lights and it will follow traffic even with traffic lights. Its the most fun when pacing cops, they hate it.

Yikes on your fuel mileage! Our '01 Chevy 2500HD with a 6.0L V-8 and 4.10 rear end gets that even on a bad day. I hope it gets better.

corvette

explorerx4 said:

Maybe the ACC has a distance option, my F150 does.

Yes, I was keeping it set to the shortest distance option unless it was pointless to do so (i.e., interstate closed down to one lane and following the vehicle in front - the longer distance prevents it from braking too often).

corvette

Michaell said:

US Bank has their own lease programs. High residual, but also likely a high MF, too.

The "rent charge" on mine is under $2,000. Looks like a pretty thin deal for the dealer and bank both.

Edit: MSRP - $50,228 including delivery processing and handling fee of $1,595.
Rent charge - $1,945.75

Honestly, if the residual were in the low $30s, it would probably be a tough call on whether to buy it out at the end of the lease versus trying to find another cheapo lease.

explorerx4

Tundra has a 4.30 rear gear and doesn't have any fuel saving features like cylinder deactivation or auto stop/start.
It's straight up old school.

fintail

Same even for MB. My car has distance settings, even the closest one is too far, people will crowd in front, which causes the car to firmly apply the brakes. Drives me nuts, so I generally don't use it in heavy traffic - but in slow grinds or less dense traffic, it's pretty nice along with the curve asisst.

corvette said:

Yes, I was keeping it set to the shortest distance option unless it was pointless to do so (i.e., interstate closed down to one lane and following the vehicle in front - the longer distance prevents it from braking too often).

corvette

explorerx4 said:

Tundra has a 4.30 rear gear and doesn't have any fuel saving features like cylinder deactivation or auto stop/start.
It's straight up old school.

The Tahoe was geared taller overall, I think, and had cylinder deactivation, although it seldom activated over 75 or 80 MPH. I had many tanks in the single digits due to using remote start and having a very short commute. It did okay on the highway, though - close to its EPA rating.

benjaminh

A 20,000 test of the Honda Insight hybrid, which didn't quite live up to its EPA mpg estimates....

https://www.motortrend.com/news/2019-honda-insight-reliability-and-fuel-economy/

"The EPA estimates the 2019 Insight's fuel economy at 55/49/52 mpg city/highway/combined. In the real world we saw an average fuel economy of 46.1 mpg. A spot check of 10 of fill-ups (of the 64 total) in the logbook shows only one that broke the 50-mpg barrier. The rest hovered around the 46-47 mpg mark."

oldfarmer50

tjc78 said:

Yep Ebay and Amazon are masters of it!

@oldfarmer50
Those squarebody Fords have a following and all bets are off if they are diesels.

Maybe I should drag my 85’ out of the junk yard and see what I can get for it.

kyfdx

corvette said:

Michaell said:

US Bank has their own lease programs. High residual, but also likely a high MF, too.

The "rent charge" on mine is under $2,000. Looks like a pretty thin deal for the dealer and bank both.

Edit: MSRP - $50,228 including delivery processing and handling fee of $1,595.
Rent charge - $1,945.75

Honestly, if the residual were in the low $30s, it would probably be a tough call on whether to buy it out at the end of the lease versus trying to find another cheapo lease.

24 or 36 month lease?

Adjusted CAP?

oldfarmer50

Sandman6472 said:

We were talking in the chase vehicle yesterday, and the subject of driving rental vehicles came up. I had the longest time frame in this business, just over 7 years now, as I started in January of 2013. One other guy had been doing it 5 years and a third, 4. Folks seem to come and go like any part time job, but a bunch of the others in my office have been doing it for a few years also. It's not really a hard job, kind of fun actually, and nice getting to drive most of the new vehicles out there. Think OF would agree with me on how cool a job it is. And getting the 401K and profit sharing is nice also.
Feel very lucky to have gotten into this kind of work actually. And the best part is that I can always cut back a day or two depending on my situation. And most of the other folks are pretty cool. Sure, there are a few jerks but, you'd find that anywhere.

My mentor when I first got hired put in 22 years. He only retired at 82 when he was diagnosed with ALS.

corvette

kyfdx said:

corvette said:

Michaell said:

US Bank has their own lease programs. High residual, but also likely a high MF, too.

The "rent charge" on mine is under $2,000. Looks like a pretty thin deal for the dealer and bank both.

Edit: MSRP - $50,228 including delivery processing and handling fee of $1,595.
Rent charge - $1,945.75

Honestly, if the residual were in the low $30s, it would probably be a tough call on whether to buy it out at the end of the lease versus trying to find another cheapo lease.

24 or 36 month lease?

Adjusted CAP?

24 month. Adjusted cap is $45,761.57.

oldfarmer50

corvette said:

Easy-ish drive home... Took the southern route through WV. Got some snow and salt there. Here's the truck - I like the blacked out emblems much better than the gold emblems that used to plague the lots of Toyota and Lexus dealers in the 1990s.

Beautiful. Keep it out of the salt.

kyfdx

corvette said:

kyfdx said:

corvette said:

Michaell said:

US Bank has their own lease programs. High residual, but also likely a high MF, too.

The "rent charge" on mine is under $2,000. Looks like a pretty thin deal for the dealer and bank both.

Edit: MSRP - $50,228 including delivery processing and handling fee of $1,595.
Rent charge - $1,945.75

Honestly, if the residual were in the low $30s, it would probably be a tough call on whether to buy it out at the end of the lease versus trying to find another cheapo lease.

24 or 36 month lease?

Adjusted CAP?

24 month. Adjusted cap is $45,761.57.

Approx. .00100 MF.

The lease is cheap because of that huge residual, and reasonable money factor

kyfdx

By comparison, our Tacoma lease had an 82% residual for 36/12. Even more ridiculous.

corvette

oldfarmer50 said:

corvette said:

Easy-ish drive home... Took the southern route through WV. Got some snow and salt there. Here's the truck - I like the blacked out emblems much better than the gold emblems that used to plague the lots of Toyota and Lexus dealers in the 1990s.

Beautiful. Keep it out of the salt.

Thanks! It’s a 24 month lease. The salt can bite the next owner!