Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous

henryn

kyfdx said:

Random lease calculation (not saying which model this is.. lol)

$55,000 MSRP
-$5000 discount
$50,000 selling price
-$7500 rebate
=$42,500
+ zero acq.fee
+ $500 dealer fee
+ $450 sales tax
+ $75 title/registration
= $43525 adjusted CAP cost

.00203 MF
65% residual (36/10)

$377/mo. + 6% sales tax = $400/mo.
$400 DAS

Looks like $5K+ potential flip profit, even accounting for a couple of payments and insurance?

If there were any possibility of doing that here where I live, I would be down at the dealer first thing tomorrow morning for a test drive. Not saying I would buy one, the 4 door Wrangler doesn't excite me, but it would definitely be worth a test drive.

And right now, there is a real scarcity of deals to be had.

henryn

stickguy said:

my dealer had their usual addendum sticker, but just their standard $595 protection package ripoff (trunk mat, wheel locks, vin etching, maybe one more thing). No ADM listed. But I doubt there is much of a discount possible.

In my experience, dealers don't really shout out about their "dealer add ons". When you look at online pricing from the web site, there is always fine print, but nowhere do they actually spell out the bottom line.

You have to show up in person before the real numbers are revealed, at least in most cases.

Right now, here in Houston, Texas, the only dealers showing any discount off of MSRP are the Volkswagen dealers. At least that's what I've seen from my limited perusing of dealer web sites.

stickguy

this was looking at the dealer add on sticker on the car on the lot, and I know if there was an ADM it would be listed! I think that car was fresh off the truck, so still time to print up a new one I guess.

Good thing I am just browsing to see what I like. Still trying to hold out until year end/January range before doing anything.

laurasdada

Walked the MB/Porsche/Acura/Audi lots yesterday while LF was spending time with her mother. Amazing lack of new inventory. And, amazing higher prices on used...

Sent LF pix of an '18 MB E400 (designo red w/maroon top/cream interior) and C300 (blue/blue/brown), '18 Audi A5 (gray/black/gray) and a '17 BMW 640xi (at Jag dealer, white/black/black). When asked which was her preference, "The white one."

Dealers closed today, maybe we'll walk the lots together. But, I'm getting the feeling that she's just not comfy w/3 cars. Or trading her CX-5 for a vert. Oh, well. It's the thought that counts.

ab348

@laurasdada, it does sound like she is not quite there yet on any of them. Maybe put the idea on the back burner for now and show your appreciation with a different (and possibly less expensive!) gift.

stickguy

if she is not on board, at least wait until winter when the overall market might have settled down, and in New England definitely not convertible season.

also sounds like upgrading to a nicer only car is a better move.

oldfarmer50

henryn said:

stickguy said:

my dealer had their usual addendum sticker, but just their standard $595 protection package ripoff (trunk mat, wheel locks, vin etching, maybe one more thing). No ADM listed. But I doubt there is much of a discount possible.

In my experience, dealers don't really shout out about their "dealer add ons". When you look at online pricing from the web site, there is always fine print, but nowhere do they actually spell out the bottom line.

You have to show up in person before the real numbers are revealed, at least in most cases.

Right now, here in Houston, Texas, the only dealers showing any discount off of MSRP are the Volkswagen dealers. At least that's what I've seen from my limited perusing of dealer web sites.

The Kia store where I bought my Soul doesn’t have any ADMs at least according to a coworker whose wife bought a new car there last week. They even advertise an extra $1500 on trades.

Of course they may be low balling the offer on the trade to compensate.

henryn

oldfarmer50 said:

henryn said:

stickguy said:

my dealer had their usual addendum sticker, but just their standard $595 protection package ripoff (trunk mat, wheel locks, vin etching, maybe one more thing). No ADM listed. But I doubt there is much of a discount possible.

In my experience, dealers don't really shout out about their "dealer add ons". When you look at online pricing from the web site, there is always fine print, but nowhere do they actually spell out the bottom line.

You have to show up in person before the real numbers are revealed, at least in most cases.

Right now, here in Houston, Texas, the only dealers showing any discount off of MSRP are the Volkswagen dealers. At least that's what I've seen from my limited perusing of dealer web sites.

The Kia store where I bought my Soul doesn’t have any ADMs at least according to a coworker whose wife bought a new car there last week. They even advertise an extra $1500 on trades.

Of course they may be low balling the offer on the trade to compensate.

I just checked the web site for the nearest Kia dealer, checking the inventory on new Souls. 11 new, 10 2021, 1 2022. 2 LX, 9 S models. The 2021 models show a $1,750 "national rebate", and about $500 to $600 dealer discount. If they're showing a dealer discount, then I wouldn't think they would have a "market adjustment". No idea about add-ons. If there are no add ons, that makes 2 brands available locally below MSRP. So if you really need a car, you can buy one. Maybe not the car you want, but ...

ab348

Just for fun I rolled thru the lots at the nearby Ford and Kia dealers today as they were closed. The cupboard was nearly bare at the Ford store, with an Explorer, an Escape, an Edge, both a Roush and a GT Mustang, and not much else. Remarkable. Kia was also pretty sparse but they had a bit more selection but nothing close to normal.

laurasdada

She's got Friday off, she (as of today) plans to car shop; I'll give her a map of where the current crop of verts are located. If still available.

But, I will back off a bit, it's really up to her. But, to tell you the truth, of course I'm enjoying the hunt! And, as I head towards SS age, I'm really fighting the urge to do some kind of Delta House-like all out stupid gesture. Like all here, I've worked a long time, helped put two kids through braces, summer camp and college. Bought one a car!

I warned the LC, it may happen. Upcoming two car garage with space for a car (or two!) behind...
I drove British for just shy of 10 years, only one show stopping incident (warranty), perhaps it's time to follow the Clarkson thought that one only buys the Jag XK because they can't afford an Aston Martin; that DB11 sure is purty...

The A7 continues to be fun in the new tech department (the electric cruising and spaceship sounds amuse all around me), but I'm not a fan of the dual screens. Buttons and switches are just so simple and functional. It's a great GT, eats up the highway smoothly and quietly. Handles well enough, but not Mulholland, Angeles Crest of TAil of the Dragon worthy.

While at the Jag dealer, they had a '15 Jag XF for sale, Blue/beige. I tear came to my eye, but when I looked in the window, my instant reaction was, "Wow, that's an old looking interior design." Luckily, I was not struck down by Sir William at that moment!

Urges to resist, I know I'm in the right place for support.

28firefighter

@tifighter you surviving the heat? Hearing south sound is about 10-20 degrees warmer than us up north.

Michaell

Let's play a game - Guess the Markup!

I caught F9 today at the IMAX theater, and @breld was heading to the MB store just a short 5 minute drive from the complex, so I joined him for a quick lot walk.

Spotted this on the forecourt - I took a picture of the dealer sticker, but I'll wait to post it after I've allowed you to guess how much the markup is.

G63, for the uninitiated:

roadburner

$15k.

28firefighter

$55k ADM

stickguy

the Gwagen, those always seem to get stupid money.

I think if I had to get a car right now, I could do it. would probably end up leasing to not get stuck on the wrong end of the bubble. But most likely, it might not be my ideal car. But I am sure I could get something that was acceptable. Probably some sort of hybrid hyundai.

qbrozen

I'll go with $30k. I figure if it is ~$165k MSRP, another $30k will still be under the $200k threshold.

mjfloyd1

@oldfarmer50 said:
The Kia store where I bought my Soul doesn’t have any ADMs at least according to a coworker whose wife bought a new car there last week. They even advertise an extra $1500 on trades.

Of course they may be low balling the offer on the trade to compensate.

You bought your soul? Mine came standard

stickguy

I had one, but sold it for the first decent offer!

fintail

I will guess at least 20K ADM, those aren't easy to find even if there isn't a huge amount of demand now that the newness is wearing off. Color is a Designo Manufaktur hue (might even be the "China Blue I like), $6500 option in itself IIRC. i suspect MSRP is at least 175K.

ab348

fintail said:

I will guess at least 20K ADM, those aren't easy to find even if there isn't a huge amount of demand now that the newness is wearing off. Color is a Designo Manufaktur hue (might even be the "China Blue I like), $6500 option in itself IIRC. i suspect MSRP is at least 175K.

I always though of China as Red.

nyccarguy

$50K Markup

Michaell

I'll add a hint, so if you want to take a second crack at this, no problem.

This is the same MB dealer where @breld noted last week that every GLE on the lot was marked up between $2K and $5K.

corvette

My date tonight had a current model Mazda3 hatch with AWD. I had forgotten they offered AWD on those. I didn't get a good look at it other than seeing the AWD badge, as I was trying to pay attention to her and not her car.

carnaught

$10k

fintail

As makers love to pander to that market, surprised it isn't a thing.

China Blue came around as the rename of a very similar color to my fintail, I think maybe referring to Wedgwood style ware. MB also had a "Havana Brown", later renamed "Tobacco Brown".


Speaking of car shopping, my ~70 year old uncle has become bored with the Taurus he took over from my grandma, which replaced a LeSabre he had for years. He's now eyeing a 60K mile 2012 Honda Fit, kind of a left field choice. He was excited about an element he found for sale, but it sold - interesting that he's into these cars now.

ab348 said:

fintail said:

I will guess at least 20K ADM, those aren't easy to find even if there isn't a huge amount of demand now that the newness is wearing off. Color is a Designo Manufaktur hue (might even be the "China Blue I like), $6500 option in itself IIRC. i suspect MSRP is at least 175K.

I always though of China as Red.

Michaell

fintail said:

As makers love to pander to that market, surprised it isn't a thing.

China Blue came around as the rename of a very similar color to my fintail, I think maybe referring to Wedgwood style ware. MB also had a "Havana Brown", later renamed "Tobacco Brown".

ab348 said:

fintail said:

I will guess at least 20K ADM, those aren't easy to find even if there isn't a huge amount of demand now that the newness is wearing off. Color is a Designo Manufaktur hue (might even be the "China Blue I like), $6500 option in itself IIRC. i suspect MSRP is at least 175K.

I always though of China as Red.

Ford offered Medium Wedgwood Blue as a color on the Expedition around the turn of the Century. Not sure if it’s still on the palette.

Sandman6472

Great color on the BMW though have no clue what they call it, looks like bronze. Nice looking vehicle and something I could actually love I'm thinking. Looks similar in color to the bronze Mini Cooper Countryman I drove last week. And it's looking like a Mini Cooper might be on my short list again. Definitely an ex-loaner would be the way to go and size wise, it's just perfect. Just wish this chip situation would come to an end so there would be plenty more to chose from. I guess it's just my life, the timing that is, once I'm finally ready to make a move, there's almost nothing to make that move with! Another example where timing matters in life situations & decisions. But one day soon, everything will align and the perfect vehicle will be found at the perfect price with the right amount of options and hopefully 0% financing...and I'll just do it, and not look back!

oldfarmer50

Michaell said:

Let's play a game - Guess the Markup!

I caught F9 today at the IMAX theater, and @breld was heading to the MB store just a short 5 minute drive from the complex, so I joined him for a quick lot walk.

Spotted this on the forecourt - I took a picture of the dealer sticker, but I'll wait to post it after I've allowed you to guess how much the markup is.

G63, for the uninitiated:

Well, since those are about $160k to start I’d guess a 10% ADM or $15-20k. Anybody that would buy a boat like that probability has a few extra bucks burning a hole in his pocket.

oldfarmer50

mjfloyd1 said:

@oldfarmer50 said:

The Kia store where I bought my Soul doesn’t have any ADMs at least according to a coworker whose wife bought a new car there last week. They even advertise an extra $1500 on trades.

Of course they may be low balling the offer on the trade to compensate.

You bought your soul? Mine came standard

You couldn’t help yourself, right?

ab348

I'll take $40K in the ADM G63 Price is Right game.

au1994

Michaell said:

fintail said:

As makers love to pander to that market, surprised it isn't a thing.

China Blue came around as the rename of a very similar color to my fintail, I think maybe referring to Wedgwood style ware. MB also had a "Havana Brown", later renamed "Tobacco Brown".

ab348 said:

fintail said:

I will guess at least 20K ADM, those aren't easy to find even if there isn't a huge amount of demand now that the newness is wearing off. Color is a Designo Manufaktur hue (might even be the "China Blue I like), $6500 option in itself IIRC. i suspect MSRP is at least 175K.

I always though of China as Red.

Ford offered Medium Wedgwood Blue as a color on the Expedition around the turn of the Century. Not sure if it’s still on the palette.

I had a 99 Explorer in that color over tan leather. I loved that color and the Explorer for that matter. Yes it had the Firestones but other than that, zero issues.

tjc78

@fintail
When you head over to get that G wagon make sure to get them to at least throw in some all weather mats!

cdnpinhead

au1994 said:

Yes it had the Firestones but other than that, zero issues.

I've been under the impression that it wasn't the tires themselves, but the lack of monitoring the pressure in them, that was the issue. For decades Firestone was the default tire brand for new Ford products. My Lincoln LS came with Firestones that were supposedly designed specifically for the car.

The whole mess begat TPMS, and here we are.

Michaell

Ok, folks, here are the guesses that I’ve documented:

@roadburner $15k
@28firefighter $55k
@qbrozen $30k
@fintail $20k
@nyccarguy $50k
@carnaught $10k
@oldfarmer50 $15-20k
@ab348 $40k

I’ll post the ADM sticker shortly, if anyone else wants to jump in with a guess or revise their original one.

I will share the MSRP of the car, however…. $180k

28firefighter

I’m revising up. I’ll say $80k- $260k total with ADM.

stickguy

$25,000

kyfdx

I think $249,000 total with the ADM

henryn

Michaell said:

Ok, folks, here are the guesses that I’ve documented:

@roadburner $15k
@28firefighter $55k
@qbrozen $30k
@fintail $20k
@nyccarguy $50k
@carnaught $10k
@oldfarmer50 $15-20k
@ab348 $40k

I’ll post the ADM sticker shortly, if anyone else wants to jump in with a guess or revise their original one.

I will share the MSRP of the car, however…. $180k

I'm going low. Put me down for $8k.

cdnpinhead

If you have to ask. . .

henryn

cdnpinhead said:

au1994 said:

Yes it had the Firestones but other than that, zero issues.

I've been under the impression that it wasn't the tires themselves, but the lack of monitoring the pressure in them, that was the issue. For decades Firestone was the default tire brand for new Ford products. My Lincoln LS came with Firestones that were supposedly designed specifically for the car.

The whole mess begat TPMS, and here we are.

Over all, I like the TPMS system. There have been times when I cursed it, but over the long haul, averaged out, I think it has done more good than harm.

stickguy

TPMS is fantastic. I would hate to not have it. And individual read outs are the best! IMO very valuable, even if you don’t get a flat that it notifies you about.

tjc78

One curious omission from Volvo. No individual read outs. Really miss that coming from GM and Hyundai. My lowly Elantra had it, why can’t a 60K Volvo?

sda

tjc78 said:

One curious omission from Volvo. No individual read outs. Really miss that coming from GM and Hyundai. My lowly Elantra had it, why can’t a 60K Volvo?

Honda, Audi, VW don't show the individual tire pressure, at least those that we've owned. The 06 TL does as did my 08 HHR LT2. Having the individual tire pressure shown is extremely helpful. If the TPMS light comes on I have to check the pressure on each tire to determine which one is low...unless it is flat.

sda

Michaell said:

Ok, folks, here are the guesses that I’ve documented:

@roadburner $15k
@28firefighter $55k
@qbrozen $30k
@fintail $20k
@nyccarguy $50k
@carnaught $10k
@oldfarmer50 $15-20k
@ab348 $40k

I’ll post the ADM sticker shortly, if anyone else wants to jump in with a guess or revise their original one.

I will share the MSRP of the car, however…. $180k

For fun, $100k

mjfloyd1

30k

dad23

$75k

Michaell

Presented without commentary:

henryn

tjc78 said:

One curious omission from Volvo. No individual read outs. Really miss that coming from GM and Hyundai. My lowly Elantra had it, why can’t a 60K Volvo?

Volkswagen at one point was using the tire speed sensor instead of TPMS sensors. If the tire inflation was low, the tire speed sensor would report more revolutions per mile than the the other 3 tires and the tire pressure warning would be triggered.

I don't know if they're still using that, and I have no idea what Volvo is doing.

I will agree that the individual read outs are very handy, I would not want that to be missing on any new car I was considering. Not a deal breaker, but a negative.

kyfdx

tjc78 said:

One curious omission from Volvo. No individual read outs. Really miss that coming from GM and Hyundai. My lowly Elantra had it, why can’t a 60K Volvo?

Same with the GTI. It just tells me which tire is low

28firefighter

My revised guess wins!