Chronic Car Buyers Anonymous

stickguy

I agree. I would take a 2011 1 series over a 2005 3 series if the delta was $6k. Not even requiring a 2nd thought here.

the CT? I should try one of those. might be perfect for me!

nyccarguy

It gets much more favorable reviews than the Prius which it is heavily based off of. While the CT is no bahn burner with a 0 - 60 mph time in the 9s, it is truly (according to the reviews I've read) a true Lexus. The 10 mpg less that the CT gets compared to the Prius is based off of is due to the extra sound deadening material & luxury touches that (supposedly) makes the CT more of a "real car" than the Prius.

Jayrider - please don't take offense. I'm just going by what I've read which always compares the CT to the Prius.

nyccarguy

Something like This 2012 Honda Fit Sport has more than enough miles per month to satisfy my driving needs.

kyfdx

You wouldn't fly from New York to Dayton to pick up a car, would you? ;-)

imidazol97

>You wouldn't fly from New York to Dayton

It'd be an easy run, if there were cheap flights from NYC..., Richmond, IN is 30 miles rural interstate away. Car is in IN because one of the pictures shows another car parked with Indiana plates.

nyccarguy

Why do you ask;)

Sandman6472

The car was actually very nice...price was about $25k and there was another one down in Miami around the same mileage/price. Getting in/out wasn't as bad as I thought but still a bit low for me and my bad back but it is something I could definitely live with. The interior appointments were really top drawer, perfect ergonomics and the leather was buttery soft...this is somewhere I could love to be! The acceleration was a bit slow off the line but it being a hybrid with a CVT is just part of the fun I guess...I'd call it "leisurely" off the mark but once up to speed, it drives very nicely but again, from a dead stop, don't expect brisk acceleration! Since we already have a CVT in the stable, my kids '09 Versa SL hatch, I am used to the gradual acceleration and could live with it. The IS 250 I drove right after it was so much quicker I was amazed but again, it has a regular slushbox. The braking was very linear and there was some noises that the salesman noticed, he thought a fire engine was behind us! Really wasn't that bad. Good visibility all around and this is an excellent vehicle with 43 city and 40 highway according to the salesguy, figures I could definitely live with! Overall, it is an impressive package and for a daily driver, it would be outstanding!
Spoke to a person who bought a new one and he said to go new instead of used but the new prices are pretty up there...I dtopped by the Lexus store on the way home just to check. Right now, I have no clue what to do. I did however, really like this CT and plan to go back for another drive in it. If I were to purchased right now, this would be the one even though it is used because I think it's the best bang for the buck and now that I am driving a bit more, the mileage advantage would be great!

The Sandman

Sandman6472

Really liked the white 1 Series and could really see myself in it...and it still has warranty to boot but it being a coupe with the somewhat heavier door, it could be a problem. I plan to go back and give it a try as the charcoal one I drove was simply outstanding! They had a few others on their used lot I liked also, a red Tiquan nicely loaded up but it had just under 50k on it, it was an '09 I think...to many miles for me but the price was pretty good, around the high $14's but sure I could get some off. But think I'd rather go newer if I went this route. Saw a nice Jetta SE with miles in the mid 30's again for a price in the mid $14's but again, newer is probably the way to go, it was an '11 model. Also was going to try a new Mini Cooper but work called and had to go do a job.
At this point, that '05 325 CI is off the table though it didn't drive that badly and the cowl shake and flex really wasn't too bad, it was still there but I guess any drop top is going to have this issue. So right now, looks like the front contender is that Lexus CT I saw unless another option comes through. Went to see an old friend who I thought drove a Lexus hybrid but turns out it is a 2009 IS 250 and it has only, 16k on the clock! Looks to be in flawless condition and they are in the process of getting numbers from Lexus to trade it. She mentioned around $20k so I told her to please let me know what they do and give me a shot at taking it off their hands. It isn't the best color combo, light blue over beige, but I could definitely live with it. Now this could be a great option.
So, I am all over the place right now on what I want to do so doing nothing is the best thing to do right now. Just going to go drive the CT again and go from there. Thinking now that Lexus could be the way to go even though that white 1 Series was a lot of fun, something I know the wife would love if we got it. Got a feeling whatever I get that she is going to insist on using it also. She did get me yesterday with her practical joke but after thinking about it for awhile, I knew she'd never do it without me test driving her final choice...she knows I like to test for alignment issues and just how it drives. But she did have me there for awhile! Deep down, she thinks I should just do nothing but I still want a "toy", so the search continues!

The Sandman

jayrider

No offense taken. The Prius is a roomy appliance -mine has leather seats- that is not a "drivers" car. A Prius 4 can be bought for about 26k with a 3k discount. A leather equipped CT lists for about 35k --- don't know if they discount those or not. You get what you pay for I suppose.
I would be far more interested in the Jetta hybrid for 25k if you want a nice balance between economy and driving dynamics. And don't forget the diesel versions.

Sandman6472

Sat in a Prius at Carmax and it was pretty nice actually. Seems to be similar to the 200CT I drove though I like the exterior and interior of the Lexus. Still not sure if I want to go in this direction though the fuel savings would be helpful as the 43/40 is an impressive number to say the least. Also, it's a lot of cash for a used vehicle but went to see new and the prices were out of this world...in the mid 30's which is totally unaffordable. Right now my head is swimming with it all so I have decided to just step back for awhile and think...I do not need to do anything as my current ride is in like new condition. This all started when I decided I wanted a toy for my 59th b-day, a sort of reward for doing all I had to in my lifetime. But now, it's getting a bit much so will step back and take a breather. if that Lexus at Carmax sells, then it wasn't meant to be. If it's still there when I do decide to make a move, then it is meant to be!
I have had enough of car shopping this week! Never thought I'd ever say that!

The Sandman

Michaell

I have had enough of car shopping this week! Never thought I'd ever say that!

I hear you .. the past few weeks I probably stopped at 4-6 dealers to look at and test drive different cars, before leasing the Hyundai. Hard to keep it all straight in your head.

As you step back, remember that you wanted a 'toy' - not to replace the Civic, but to provide an alternative that would be more fun to drive.

I don't see the Prius or the CT200h to fall into that category. Stick with coupes or droptops.

My own humble opinion, of course.

ohenryx

The saga continues with my new Ford F150 and the Sync system. When I last reported on this, I had given up on using the flash drive to play music through the USB port. I was using the satellite radio to listen to music instead, but last week the satellite radio kept dropping out. Approximately once every 60 seconds or so, the signal would just completely drop for 1 or 2 seconds. Enough to ruin the experience of listening to music. This is while driving down the freeway, with no overpasses or other obstructions.

So last Friday, the 8th, I swung by the dealership around 12:30 to leave the truck and have this checked out. I did not have an appointment, but I was in no hurry and planned to just leave it. I pulled into the service lane, stopped at the Stop sign, and waited. After 2 or 3 minutes, I got out of the truck, looked around, and sat down on a bench provided for that purpose. About 10 minutes after arriving, not having seen a single living soul, I walked inside and looked around. Several people wearing jackets that said “Russell & Smith” (name of the dealership), but no one approached me. I finally walked up and asked one of them if he was working.

So, I had prepared a sheet of paper describing my problems, with my name and contact information (email address, work and cell phone numbers), and gave that to the service writer. Strangely enough, he never gave me a business card. I don’t remember ever dealing with a service writer where I did not get a business card.

Fast forward one week, to today. I have not heard anything, so I call the service department. No one knows anything, but they will look for my records and call me back. After about 30 minutes, I get a phone call from a woman (definitely not who I spoke to last Friday). The technician spent 15 minutes with my truck, could not reproduce my problems, the truck is ready to be picked up. She actually told me he “spent 15 minutes” on my truck, like I was supposed to be impressed.

oldfarmer50

"...you wanted a toy..."

My thoughts exactly. Sandy, ditch that Prius or other fancy hybrids and get a screamer of a convertible. Life the life!

For what it's worth, I drove a Lexus IS350 back in February and while it was a nice car I was not blown away by handling, performance or interior. For a $50k+ car, "nice" was not enough.

I vote for the white BMW 1. You deserve it.

oldfarmer50

"...the saga..."

Wait, they had your truck for a week, spent 15 minutes doing nothing and never called you?

Either I'm missing something or it's time to find another dealer.

xwesx

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I should say! :sick:

ronsteve

By Indy airport: $2.93 a gallon for RUG ($3.85 diesel) a .93 spread?. This spread equates to 31.3%

That's about enough to cancel out the fuel savings of a diesel.

Has the next Marathon/Ashland spike in gasoline come to Indy yet?

It's worth noting that diesel prices are a helluva lot less volatile than gasoline prices...

ronsteve

I am an employee. I get a W-2 at the end of the year that shows my earnings plus reported tips (any tip put on a CC and $2 for each run that is paid by check or cash).

What do you actually get per run from the store? Back in my college days in the late '80s/early '90s we got either 15 cents a mile or 50-75 cents per delivery, but that was only reported if the latter figure got over 26 cents a mile (the going mileage rate at the time). Kinda craptastic that (it sounds like) you are now getting taxed on tips whether you get them or not.

I say keep a good log of your miles and write them off!

ronsteve

"...same V6 engine..."

Maybe the premium gas allows the Acura to advance timing for more power.

Then why does the Accord have more power?

278hp@6200 and 252ft-lb@4900 in the Accord on regular
272hp@6200 and 249ft-lb@5000 in the Acura on premium

Maybe the premium helps it move the heavier vehicle at lower rpm? Seems to me if you hot-rod it, you're fine on regular!

Sandman6472

Leaning towards the Lexus right now as I really liked it a lot and the thought of having a "toy" is gonna cause a problem methinks...any change is going to cause an issue cause the Civic is really in pristine condition and I just spent $ on brakes and an induction cleaning so I am just going to go test drive the Lexus again and see what they will give me on the Civic. Need to digest the real cost of all this and see after that...not sure if I want to spend that much $ right now. Might be best to wait 6 months or so and if the urge is still there, then act. It's not like I "need" to do this...I "want" to do this and there's a big difference here. Hell, I just wish the wife would get her new sled first and then I would act after that...would make things a bit easier. Bottom line here...do I really want to dump a perfectly good vehicle on one I really like, but do not need! Is it better to keep the probable $20k and invest it for the future or spend it on a used vehicle. I know, silly question for this group but the logical side of my brain is winning the battle here...it's like that angel/devil cartoons of long ago...who will win this battle???

The Sandman :sick: :shades:

Michaell

In addition to the tips, I get $0.75 for each delivery I make.

Tonight I made 11 deliveries, so I got $8.25 extra. My take home is rounded to the nearest dollar, so tonight I earned $61.

corvette

"spent 15 minutes"

Sounds about like the treatment my GLI got for a door/B-pillar rattle. The invoice claimed that they test drove it three times, but had only put about ten miles on it after having it for two days.

corvette

Generally speaking, the least expensive vehicle to keep is the one you already own. On the other hand, I think it's nice to have occasional indulgences if you can afford them, whether those are little things like eating dessert or bigger things like having a nice/nicer car.

nyccarguy

I joined fuelly.com on 8/8 as a result of another member's postings on the "diesel" car thread. Fuel economy is far from my priority, but it is sort of cool to know the exact stats:

2011 BMW 328xiA

5245 Miles Driven
21.4 mpg average
23.4 best mpg
cost per mile: $.186

2011 Honda Pilot

4274 Miles Driven
16.3 mpg average
19.6 best mpg
cost per mile: .229

2001 Honda Prelude

1075 Miles Driven
23.4 mpg average
24.7 best mpg
cost per mile: .171

oldfarmer50

"...why does the Accord have more power..."

I did not know that. From the discussion I just assumed the Acura had more power.

Why indeed?

oldfarmer50

"..in addition to tips, I get $0.75 for each delivery..."

I guess my original question was how do you factor the cost of the car into figuring what you actually make? Do you deduct the lease payment, gas and maintenance from everything or do you take the IRS per mile?

On my farm truck I expense everything including insurance but I keep a ledger of all my farm expenses as part of the business so it's routine.

kyfdx

"Why indeed?"

I'll go back to my original supposition: the engines are not identical.. (ergo, the different fuel recommendations)

But, if you assume they are identical, then differences in exhaust routing and intake, due to the different geometry and weight of the vehicles involved..

tjc78

All my cars are pigs, not sure I would want to see the details! I know that ironically the 04 Grand Marq and the 2012 LaCrosse both average the same 18.5 mpg overall. My wife and I are both heavy foots. It's funny that the newer "hi tech" car returns mostly the same MPG as the dinosaur. I don't drive the truck enough to ever see what it does.

Sandman6472

Am thinking the Civic's is probably around 30 mpg's combined while the Mazda's must be down around 26 or so...that sucker is sure thirsty but it moves pretty quickly and it is a nice rush to mash the pedal and go! I know compared to most of y'all's vehicles the Mazda is a wimp but it is plenty fast for the both of us. Really wonder if the CT really does those advertised figures of 43/40 or is that a dream on Toyota's part...guess the Prius does even better because of the additional weight the Lexus has, it looks to be a more substantial and heavier vehicle. But I'd love mileage figures in the low 40's since i am driving almost 10k/year now since I went bacjk to work. And that interview I have Tuesday is down at the airport so my route wouldn't change...still about 27 miles each way. The hertz location in Pembroke Pines is 30 miles and there's a toll road involved since it's the most direct route and at that time of the morning, rush hour is very heavy, if the hours would be the same as they are now.

The Sandman :sick: :shades:

ohenryx

This actually gets worse. When I dropped off the truck at the dealer service department, I gave the service writer a piece of paper. I had written out, clearly and concisely, two (2) problems that I wanted them to look at. These problems were described in separate paragraphs, with white space between. Printed on a laser printer, in 12 point, highly legible font.

Problem number 1 was the ongoing problem with Sync not recognizing a flash drive. I told the service writer that the truck had already been in the shop once for that problem, and I did not actually expect a fix, but that I wanted it on the record that the problem was still ongoing.

Problem number 2 was the satellite radio dropping out while driving down the freeway, with no overheard obstructions. I told the service writer that I really wanted this problem fixed, that I suspected a problem with the antenna or the antenna connections. The service writer disagreed, stating that he thought the problem with the satellite radio was related to the GPS. I said nothing, but wondered to myself how a problem with the GPS could cause the satellite radio to drop out. Especially considering that my truck does not have NAV.

When I picked up the truck yesterday afternoon, I read the paperwork they gave me carefully. There is no mention, none whatsoever, not one single word about the satellite radio. Only the USB port. Needless to say, things got a little heated. I asked for the service manager, and most likely wound up speaking to some flunky whom they pay to pretend to be the manager simply for purposes of absorbing verbal abuse. And he definitely earned his pay yesterday!

I called the Ford Customer Service hotline, and opened a formal complaint against the dealership. They seemed to take me seriously, they wanted the VIN number of the truck along with other information. And they recommended a different Ford service department.

I have over the course of my long life owned 6 new fords. Four trucks, and two Mustangs. I have never yet encountered a Ford service department that was worth a da*n. Why do I keep buying Fords? Da*ned good question, maybe a psychiatrist could help me with this. Perhaps I’m a masochist and just haven’t realized it?

stever

You may want to try writing up a dealer review. Some dealers watch those carefully and go out of their way to try to "fix" complaints.

crkyolfrt

They seemed to take me seriously

Yes, they are good at portraying that.

I too used to buy Fords. One was almost $90k. The big truck ended up being the best of all the Fords I have owned. The F150 the worst. Overall though, I do NOT buy Fords any longer, and haven't for 23 years. I have been tempted at times to try setting aside the boycott I promised them back then, but so far I have stood my ground and been glad I have.

Why do I keep buying Fords? Da*ned good question, maybe a psychiatrist could help me with this. Perhaps I’m a masochist and just haven’t realized it?

Maybe..

I suggest going cold turkey and never looking back, if you decide to take the nasty depreciative hit on the F150 by getting rid of it early. It'll be that or the pain of enduring more lip service from them and learning to live with the frustrations and injustices that they have perfected since the lineup was all black.

But the other two aren't much better unfortunately. But better...although..

Just learned that some friends who I haven't seen for awhile bought a 2013 $70k Ram and it's had a number of issues that has had to go back to the shop for in the last 6 months. They used to be diehard Ford, but also bought a Toyota a few years ago. His wife kept the Tacoma, when he decided that Ford no longer deserved their loyalty, there was enough about the new Ram that it enticed him to buy. Given the outlay on this new truck, needless to say he is not a happy camper. Bells and whistles have their price...in more ways than just the cost of admission.

tjc78

With these type of issues, I would do some poking around a Ford truck specific forum (there must be one or five out there). I'd be willing to bet some one has a DIY fix for the flash drive, like a certain file structure, naming etc.

The dealers simply aren't good at fixing these tech issues and mostly rely on the manufacturer to issue updates to fix the bugs.

ohenryx

With these type of issues, I would do some poking around a Ford truck specific forum (there must be one or five out there). I'd be willing to bet some one has a DIY fix for the flash drive, like a certain file structure, naming etc.

Thanks for the suggestion, seriously. I did exactly that, and found a “fix”. You can either pull the fuse, or disconnect the battery cable, either one for about 30 seconds, and the Sync system will then recognize the flash drive again. This is a very well known, very well documented problem. There is a law suit started about this (and many other problems with the Ford Sync system), last time I checked they had applied for class action status but not yet granted.

One of the reasons I wanted to get this documented, if / when they gain class action status I want my ducks in a row, everything documented.

The dealers simply aren't good at fixing these tech issues and mostly rely on the manufacturer to issue updates to fix the bugs.

The Ford dealership where I bought this truck is a very large dealer, in a very large city (4th largest in the US). Their service department is far from small. But they do not have anyone “on staff” to deal with these problems. If you have a problem with Sync, or My Touch, or NAV, and want to wait while it’s looked at, you have to bring in your vehicle between the hours of 10 a.m. and noon, Monday through Thursday. They have someone who comes in from outside during those hours.

It’s either that, or leave your vehicle, with no loaner. And no car rental agency on site, either.


You may want to try writing up a dealer review. Some dealers watch those carefully and go out of their way to try to "fix" complaints.

Done.

stever

Oh I see - they are still mad at you for your 4 star purchase review. That's like a zero in the real world. :-)

Probably will take a day or so to get published. And there are, ahem, other review sites you may want to also post on.

corvette

"If you have a problem with Sync, or My Touch, or NAV, and want to wait while it’s looked at, you have to bring in your vehicle between the hours of 10 a.m. and noon, Monday through Thursday. They have someone who comes in from outside during those hours."

I wonder how much the Geek Squad charges them for eight hours a week of work? :P

stickguy

it's interesting to see how much better MPG my RDX gets vs. your pilot. Considering they have the same basic engine. I guess aerodynamics and the fancy VCM really does work. And toting around about 1,000 fewer pounds!

I routinely get 28-29 on mostly highway trips. and even mixing in some local stuff (like when I run up to NY) overall 26-27. Best long trip was actually 31 (all by the TC but that tends to be pretty close).

around town, well that kind of stinks. especially with the wife driving (she just does not understand how to drive smoothly and keep the MPG up!)

ronsteve

I'll go back to my original supposition: the engines are not identical.. (ergo, the different fuel recommendations)

But, if you assume they are identical, then differences in exhaust routing and intake, due to the different geometry and weight of the vehicles involved..

In other words, the Acura would be less powerful than the Accord by a wider margin without using premium?

oldfarmer50

"...never yet encountered a Ford service department worth a da*m..."

Funny you should say that as I've had dealings with a couple of them lately.

I want to put studded snows on my Mark VIII as it is to be my winter car. Found out the key that unlocks the wheel locks is broken so off to the Ford dealer I go.

The attitude I got at two different dealers was best described as "distain". Like I was interrupting their more important work even though I was the only one in service at the time. In the end I got a "can't help ya" answer at both the two Ford and one Lincoln store.

Too bad, now we go to plan B and start hacking those suckers off.

nyccarguy

It's a combination of everything. The extra weight, the aerodynamics, and I think your RDX has an extra gear as well. Plus you've got more power pulling around less weight. Our Pilot has VCM as well.

oldfarmer50

"...the F-150 was the worst..."

So was mine but probably not the same way as yours. I got snookerd by a kindly looking gentleman who swore it only had 91k miles when it was actually 191k. Needless to say it needed a lot of work including a new engine and transmission. Still, I used it on the farm for 12 years and it mostly got me where I wanted to go.

Sandman6472

Ditto here...she hits the gas then lets up, hits and lets up, hits and...well you get the drift here. All I get is a headache from the constant lurching which is why we drive our own vehicles. I tend to drive more smoothly with constant pressure on the accelerator and none of her jerkiness which also gives me better mileage even though I do have a smaller engine. It's just different styles I guess and she insists her dad taught her this way, which I really doubt! I do prefer that we not drive each others because the seats get moved and the mirrors changed and we don't have those automatic features that have memory...maybe in the next one! I definitely want a bit more lux next time and am willing to take the mileage penalty to get what I want...but I won't go much larger as a mid size is just too big for me even though the Kia Optima is a wonderful driver at a great price, the Sonata also. I just think that that Lexus has stolen my heart just like the Civic did back in '06...tested a whole bunch of rides back then but I knew in my heart that a Civic EX was going to be my next vehicle. Unfortunately, I let the other half talk me out of my sunroof, a big mistake, so this time I am getting either a convertible or sunroof. And I bet once I do, she'll love it and want to drive it also, I just know it! And I'll be a good husband and let her from time to time!

The Sandman

stickguy

stopped at the local off-lease mega store used car dealer (TJC know the place). Took a 328i out for a drive. I think I picked the wrong one to drive though. They had 3, a pair of xdrives (a 2011 and 2010) and a 2011 RWD. So, being old school, I picked the RWD to test.

unexpected to me, I did not really care for it. Not sure if it was the specific car, or the way it is, but did not like some things about it. Noisy, and some odd sounds (like a bad wheel bearing) and felt like unbalanced wheels, but without the wheel shake. Even the wife commented that it did not seem right.

now, this one had the 45 series 17" tires. Maybe that (in run flats) was the reason. Took it for a fairly long drive at highway speeds, and we seemed to get used to it. Played with the idrive. lots of features if you can find them. Weird experience with all kinds of park warnings at the beginning, but thankfully that stopped. Good seats, nice interior but wife hated the cup holders (rightly figuring she would be the one leaked and spilled on!)

handled nice. And quick. Good visibility (nice size car for sure).

They also had a 2012 Volvo S60 T5. sat in that (no drive) and it was very comfortable. Will take one of those for a drive at some point, and I do want to try out a BMW xdrive (probably a good idea anyway) with the 55 series tires to see if it is any more comfortable.

tjc78

Old farmer, get a cheap impact socket the right size and hammer it onto the locking nut. With any luck you can break it loose. If not try another dealer or tire shop, there are master key sets for OEM lockers.

tjc78

I would think the run flats combined with the crappy highways here would be the reason for what you noticed. I'm no BMW expert, but I believe the Xdrives have a slightly softer suspension. I'm sure NYC or RB would know better.

Sandman6472

Agree on the 55 series tires...a much nicer ride. I know the 325CI had them in the 205/55/16, just what I have now on my Civic. Not sure what the Lexi had but will do some web searching later about the vehicle as a whole and get others reactions to it. Hope it uses 87 petrol as I don't want a vehicle that needs higher to be honest. Right now though, the CT checks all the boxes for me but further research is warranted at this juncture and that's exactly what i told the Carmax guy earlier. Did get his schedule as I won't buy it from any other guy there if possible as he did spend the time with me the other day and was pretty patient with me and showed me a lot. He even waited by the building as I walked the lot until I signaled for him to come on over to help me. Not high pressure at all and there's no haggling here...the price is the price with no dealer fees just tax and tag which I liked actually. Told him today am just not ready to pull the trigger quite yet as there's still more I need to see and drive. Want to be honest and that I was. Have seen a silver one which I prefer color wise but could live with what they have no problem.

The Sandman

oldfarmer50

"...sockets...master sets..."

Yeah, one of the dealers mentioned they probably had a master set but just getting them off at the dealer does me no good especially if I get a flat on the road. I could get a replacement if I wanted to wait weeks. My indie garage will probably used the socket trick and then replace the locks with nice matching nuts.

No one steals 19yo Lincoln 16" wheels any way. Why would I need locks?

nyccarguy

My xi has 45 series run flats. The brand of tire makes a big difference as well as the amount of tread life left. I remember when I bought my car, the salesman told me he figured out that "I just wasn't another guy who wanted to lease a BMW because of the badge." He said my car came with Continentals which people didn't complain about nearly as much as the other brand BMW used for a while.

The cup holders aren't as bad as they seem. Medium & Large Dunkin hot cups fit fine as does the DD medium iced coffee. The large DD iced doesn't fit however.

The way you are describing the harshness of the car makes me believe those tires are probably over 60% worn. They might look like they still have meat on them, but are shot.

I do love my car's size. It handles brilliantly & definitely moves when properly motivated.

stickguy

Thanks Bradd. I really hate the really low profile tires. I would much rather have the 55-16s that are standard on the xdrive.

not that I am in any imminent danger of getting one (but hey, test driving is still fun, and it can take a while to narrow it down!), but I definitely will take an xdrive with normal tires out for a spin.

nyccarguy

Gotcha. If you are driving a 2011 with 16" wheels, that means it doesn't have the "value package." Leather, Hot Seats, iPod adapter, & sunroof (I think).

I've said before, I was happy with my car's everything. Ever since I swapped out the stock continentals for Michelins, I'm downright thrilled.

If you do decide you want an E90 sedan, take your time & pick the perfect one. There are plenty out there.

stickguy

well, the one I saw on the lot had a moonroof and the 16s. though that one IIRC was a 2010. Not sure what wheels the 2011 xdrive had.