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Once people find out they get closer to 50 MPG than 40 it will be hard to find one on a dealers lot.
the 5-spd gets 10% better mpg, with similar mix of city vs highway.
there isn't an automatic transmission yet which can sense the road/traffic/traffic-signals ahead.
that's a reason why a manual-shifter can enable such dramatically better mpg.
Another apples to oranges comparo that I have done for easily 67,000 miles is the fuel mileage for a gasser Civic (38-42 mpg ) vs TDI (48-52 mpg.) Two things that are common, the actual commute, drivers.
And, I might add, a Jetta and a New Beetle are not identical cars, even with the same engine.
If you want a manual transmission, you won't get any argument from me - but I really doubt you're going to see that kind of difference in fuel consumption of the '09 Jetta between the two drivetrain choices. In any case, VW plans the initial production run to be something like 90% DSG.
Right now they don't have any 2009 vehicles listed.
http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/0,,id=157557,00.html
Which dealer are you with and what is your contact?
I'm interested, and live in the bay area as well.
All of the controls are smartly placed and have a solid feel to them. The steering wheel feels substancial. Nothing comes off as flimsy (at least during the 15 minute test drive).
When I first started it, I couldn't tell if it was really on. It was that quiet.
We had 4 215 plus size men in the car and everyone had plenty of space. The seats had a leather look. If that is the fake leather, I wouldn't mind having that. It looked great.
I did take me a little effort to put it into gear. Not sure if I just wasn't used to it or the shifter was sticky. This happened more than once. I kept looking down to see what gear it was in (I did have the option of looking at the gear selector on the dashboard, but in that short time I didn't get used to that).
Boy is it quiet. Once I got some space, the salesman asked me to open it up a little. It is peppy too. Quite adequate for getting on the freeway without getting into trouble. It was actually more than adequate, it was impressive.
I liked the height adjustable center console too. Not sure how he adjusted it, but he did adjust it for me. The salesman said the demo was the mid-grade level which in my mind I questioned because this one looked and felt pretty upgraded.
The transmission had a sport mode and manual shifting option was nice, but I have that in my current vehicles and never use. I inadvertently told the salesman how much I liked the car (there goes my chance for getting it at MSRP).
This is going to sell well as long as diesel doesn't cost a lot more than regular gas. I couldn't imagine too many people not liking the Jetta after driving it.
One of my concerns is forgetting it is a diesel and putting regular in it. Other than that I'm sold on the TDI Jetta.
I need the sportswagen as I'm replacing an SUV. The salesman didn't have any dates but said some should be in August or even late July. I wouldn't count on one until September though.
I'll be putting my deposit down today. I may change my mind if they insist on getting over MSRP. He said only 70 would be sold in Las Vegas and 1200 nationwide. Is this true?
The NB (New Beetle) has very little room to work in that area while the Jetta/Golf may be less cramped.
The Jetta has 195K on it so guess it's time for a failure.
Biggest turnoff--- dealer added $2000.00 "vehicle shortage allotment". Hope Honda comes out with diesel accord in couple of months.
i drive 30,000 miles per year and would love to start driving a diesel car
I’m not going to play. It’s a great car, but I will not be a party to extortion.
It was suggested that I try Portland OR, but I can’t do too much until they arrive on the lots.
Thanks
The average mpg is continually updated on a time scale of a few seconds to ten or so seconds. So the average mpg would steadily increase during the trip you describe. If you wanted to output the ave mpg of a full warmed up engine at say 40 mph, then you'd reset the computer after full warmup and then read the average over about 30 sec to 1 minute while driving a steady 40 mph.
Or you could just switch to instantaneous mpg readout.
I was very comfortable working on that car myself and pretty much knew what to watch out for and never really needed a dealer. No major repairs in that time period, just routine maintenance that is VERY important. I don't have a very high opinion of VW dealers.....I put them right down there with Toyota. I know there are some good ones, I've just not met one yet!! I would deal with it through the warranty period and then find a good independent shop that specializes in vw's/diesels.
IMHO, if you're the type that just wants a car that's reliable and requires very little interaction, then I'd recommend something else. For me, the TDI was no more difficult or expensive to maintain than anything else. However, it takes a small amount of understanding some things are DIFFERENT and need to be maintained the correct way. This seems to be a problem with VW dealers as it's common to hear of them using the incorrect fluids, throwing random parts instead of properly diagnosing the problem, and just general incompetence when it comes to the TDI's. While IMHO the Civics and such are not nearly as nice in many ways, they're a simple appliance with plenty of service/support and can be driven with little thought. Just depends on what kind of experience you're looking for. I sold my '07 Civic within three months as just wasn't pleased or comfortable. So I'm commuting in a V8 truck until I get a good grasp on these new TDI's and decide where I'm going. I'm leaning toward looking for an impeccably maintained '06 Jetta TDI. Maybe the crazy money they're pulling in will slow down once these new ones fill-up the lots.
Either way, I won't be an early adopter. I just don't see these flying off the lots the way the dealers apparently think they will. I imagine there will be strong demand at first while the pay-any-price diesel-heads buy them up. But I'm putting my money on discounts after the first of the years assuming they don't artificially control inventory. I had the chance to buy an '05 Passat Wagon TDI for under invoice not too long after the MSRP bandwagon ran out.
I too would not buy under these circumstances, but I have to tell you that I don't see the day any time soon when the diesels will be just sitting on the lot waiting for buyers.
the only reason i started my research is that a family member has a F350 diesel that he put a 50 hp chip in and is getting approx 21 mpg on the interstate. i started asking myself the question "if it can be done with a pickup that size, what could be done with a car?"
OF COURSE THEY ARE!! These are German road-cars. I have taken my Jetta TDI on trips of 16 hours.... regularly.
The seats in VW are designed for comfort. My seats move up/down, forward/back, lean and have lumbar adjustments. I have a bad back and every few hours, I like to change the lumbar setting a bit.
The ONLY time it got uncomfortable was a trip from Vermont-->Colorado-->Vermont in 5 days. The engine did not cool off...we just rotated thru 3 drivers.
PLUS-- I have averaged 50MPG over the 90,000 miles I have owned it.
Do not forget that TDI engines continue to get better MPG for the first 20,000 miles or so.
I had a few performance mods on my TDI, and yes you can increase the performance without killing the economy. However, if you constantly hammer on the go-pedal it will lower your mpg. You won't get 50hp on a TDI with a chip....the full-size truck diesels are quite different than a TDI. Plus it will be awhile before any performance mods are available (guessing....emissions controls might be an issue).
also, i've driven passat TDI and jetta TDI on bostonSanJose commutes ,
and from bostonflorida more times than I can count. They are fine for long roadtrips.
Thanks
Mico
If I didn’t have to pay both CA and WA sales tax, I’d come down and buy from you. Seems both states want a pint of my blood from my understanding.
If he had the car shipped.. or driven across the state line by a dealership employee (IOW, delivered out of state), then he could avoid the CA sales tax.. but, of course, he would still pay tax in WA, where he lives..
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I think the wise purchase at this time for long term is a midsize sedan that can get you 36 MPG like the CIVIC, or the VERSA, or the COROLLA,,, I hope this information help people looking for a new car make a good decision on there investment in transportation.
Maintenance costs are going to have to over twice as high as a gas powered vehicle (not close to the case) in order to take me out of the Jetta. On the other hand, I would NEVER pay a premium for a vehicle...period!
So- money isn't everything.
For us, the Jetta TDI is in competition with the Prius- which is about the same price.
The Jetta Sportwagon- not sure what the competition for that is?
Money isn't the only factor here. The whole driving experience between a Jetta and a Corolla is different. But thanks for the reality check.
Wish OEMS that make cars like these offered diesel models. An above diesel model and more would literally revolutionize that segment. Truly it will revolutionize almost any segment. Perhaps that is what oems that do NOT want/plan to come out with a diesel model are afraid off.
So for example on a 03 Jetta (as there is much more data and 5/6 years of it) the fuel mileage is app 42% better than the gasser models. (I get 50 mpg vs 29) . If the Honda Civic (I have, so you can see I compare them side by side EVERY DAY) would get 42% better, trust me I would be tickled pink @ 67 mpg !!!! (39 mpg gasser) Honda can't match VW's ratios? No problem, I'd still be tickled (less) pink @ 55 mpg vs 39 mpg. (29%)
At the time, the diesel was a 246. option over a 1.8T. In hindsight (5/6 years) the diesel sells for 6,000 MORE than the like used 1.8T !!! So a 246 dollar "premium" nets (5/6 years later) 6,000 more!? I wish I could do that consistently in the stock market!!!! (406% per year)
There's also always more than just numbers to figure in here. While comparing the TDI to the gas Jetta is the most accurate in terms of return-on-investment, I don't believe those two are actually targeting the same market. I think what the Jetta TDI has to offer is a much more accomodating and upscale vehicle that returns the operating costs of an economy car. As most folks on this forum know, when my prior TDI was totalled I grabbed a good deal on an '07 Civic. I sold it within a few months as it just wasn't the right vehicle for me on several levels. To me, if the economies made any sense I would commute in a 3-series bimmer, maybe an Acura TL, Audi A4....something along those lines. But they're not generally easy on fuel or the pocketbook in a lot of ways.
I would agree that overall cost, a Civic/Versa/Corolla likely could be cheaper to own/operate, you just don't get a lot of vehicle. But at the same time, if you truly want the cheapest option a Chevy Cobalt or Ford Fusion would likely be even more economical. In my corporate days, the vehicle fleet for our company (over 2,000 units) was under my domain and Toyota/Honda couldn't touch our Chevy/Ford fleet in terms of long-term cost. The Camry required nearly double the service miles to break even and repairs are hard to predict at 200k+ miles.
I live in Apollo Beach, FL and am considering purchasing one of the homebrew kits. I know that the cheapest way is the Appleseed setup. I have seen many of these on line and am not pleased with the looks and potential safety of the setup. Therefore, I am looking at one of the more expensive setups.
My problem is the cost amortiztion. Just like the premium being charged for the gas versus diesel in the 09 Jetta, I am having difficulty justifying the cost. I would like to find some TDI owners in the Tampa-St. Pete area that would like to cost share the venture. I am estimating the cost per gallon of good bio would be 1.70-2.00 per gallon. The cheapest setup looks like a total expenditure of 3,500-4,000 for a unit that can produce 40 gallons per batch. That could supply enough biodiesel for 6 people. That brings the average cost per person to 600-700.
Question: are there any TDI users in the Tampa area interested?
My take is the US market gives lip service to alternative fuels (aka bio diesel) but is LOATHED to put any products on the market that actually are specified to run ALTERNATIVE fuels (bio diesel. and included the various oil variants).
I also realize the discussion borders on the federal/state felony, as all of us know we are required to file the fed/state IRS/FTXB forms when volunteering to pay on road fuel taxes. (or NOT, hence Fed/State felony )
I just picked this as an example of the error in your post. I bought a 2005 Passat TDI in April 2005 when diesel was more than gas up in Portland Oregon. I sold it in San Diego in May of 2006 for $3000 more than I paid for it new. That point being the diesel will hold its value better than the gasser.
In San Diego today diesel is less than 45 cents difference. As many owners will attest the new Jetta TDIs are capable of a lot better mileage than the EPA estimates. I calculated that with the current price of gas in CA being $4.50 per gallon diesel would have to cost at least $7 per gallon to be less cost effective.
That leads up to the driving experience. Until you have taken both the gas version and the diesel version of the VW out on the highway you will be clueless as to the superiority of the diesel engine. If your thing is racing from stop light to stop light and don't do much highway driving. I recommend one of the little rice rockets for under $20k. They are cheap to modify and gas mileage is not a concern.
Lastly and my biggest reason for wanting another diesel is alternative fuel. Currently biodiesel is the ONLY practical alternative to fossil fuel. With the research in algae to biodiesel and Natural gas to diesel it would be good to have at least one diesel in your stable.