Like someone else posted above, I just "built" a Mazdaspeed6 GT on Carsdirect.com, in the Denver area, and it came up with a "Target" price of $1,500 off MSRP.
I made comments several posts ago about my expectation of fairly sizable discounts to be had on the MS6 within the next 6-12 months, but this really surprises me (in a good way).
Now, I don't know all the details, but I do know there is a difference between Carsdirect's "Target" price and their "Carsdirect" price. I know you actually lock into the "Carsdirect" price once you make the deal with them, but I believe a "Target" price is more of an estimate.
I wonder if Carsdirect is basing these discounts on the pricing history of the normal Mazda6, and if you actually tried to purchase one, that discount would go away.
Hmmm... maybe I should just try and go through the purchase process on Carsdirect. What's the worst that could happen - I actually get a MS6 GT for $1,500 off? : )
Wayde, I'm also in MPLS, well actually in Saint Paul, so maybe we'll meet in the showroom. Morries has two Sport models on the way and a GT w/ navigation/roof arriving sometime after that. Other dealers haven't been able to tell me what they will be receiving or when.
I read somewhere that the Mazdaspeed6 had diagonal cross member braces behind the rear seats. Does anyone know if this negates the split folding rear seat feature? :confuse: Thanks
... all you really need is about 2200 rpm for the Speed6 to take off. Even on the highway, where 70 mph translates to a little more than 3000 rpm, a light brush of the gas pedal causes it to scoot off like a frightened kitten.
That pretty much destroys the Mazdaspeed6 for me. 3k rpm at 70?! My god, how high will the engine spin at 80-90-100? A drive to Vegas would probably have the tach pegged in the 4-5k range,. Bummer. When will Mazda learn how to gear cars?
3k rpm at 70?! My god, how high will the engine spin at 80-90-100?
First off that 3K at 70 is about what most manual transmission cars run at or around. My wife's 01 civic is at about 3200 at 70. Now lets do some simple math. 3K at 70. that is about 42.85 rmp per mph. so if you want to know at 80 that is 80 X 42.85 = 3428 rmp. 90 is 90 X 42.82 = 3857 and 100 is 100 X 42.85 = 4285.
My god it is a tragedy. At around 95 mph you will be running at 4000 rpm. You do realize that at that speed you would have absolutely no power if you were running below 3000 rpm due to wind resistance.
First off that 3K at 70 is about what most manual transmission cars run at or around.
Not 6 speeds. This is a 6 speed, not a 5 speed.
My wife's 01 civic is at about 3200 at 70. Now lets do some simple math. 3K at 70. that is about 42.85 rmp per mph. so if you want to know at 80 that is 80 X 42.85 = 3428 rmp. 90 is 90 X 42.82 = 3857 and 100 is 100 X 42.85 = 4285.
Way too high for a 6 speed (or really a 5 speed too). You'll get lousy mileage at freeway speeds (80-90). I've had this problem with Mazda before - my Pro ES was a horrible freeway car for this reason. Running to Vegas or Az I'd end up getting 24 mpg@80-85mph compared to 31 mpg @95-100 in my 330i.
I have to agree, they too gear them a bit short. My Miata is like that, but it's OK because I rarely need to go more than 60-70mph or so.
My Escort GT was like that, it had the 1.8l engine and 5 speed trans from the Protoge ES. Driving to Florida and back, it was at 4000 rpm for extended periods. Never was a problem, though, the powertrain was perfect until the car was totalled with 107k miles on it.
This car wasn't built for fuel economy! It's a rip snorting sports sedan.
You can have both - to think these two are mutually exclusive is myopic at best. The other cars in this 30k+ segment - as I see the segment - offer good fuel economy, fun handling and great engine performance: A3, A4, Passat, 325i, TL, IS250.
Of those the A3, A4, TL, and 325i get better mileage, are faster and lighter. I can't comment on handling yet...
With six gears, the Speed6 gets about the same gas mileage as the Legacy GT (5 spd), right? Couldn't they make 6th a "tall" (if that's the right word) overdrive gear for lower RPM and higher MPG highway cruising? If they could bump up highway MPG to 30 or so, that would give it a definite edge over the Legacy GT. It seems like they could keep the first five gears short and tight for quick acceleration and still get better MPG.
I've never driven a car with that much oomph so low. I can't wait to try it!
Blueguy, thanks for the link. It's nice to read a review of an actual production Speed6. So, you've eliminated the IS350 and Speed6...what's left on your list? (Just curious.)
The 6i and 6s with manuals run about 3200 RPM at 75 MPH, give or take a few hundred RPM. It's a plus for me, considering that I DON'T need to downshift when I want to get around traffic on the highway. Knowing this, I imagine that the MS6 would be a blast on the highway.
When will Mazda learn how to gear cars?
They do know. That's why I bought one!
At around 95 mph you will be running at 4000 rpm. You do realize that at that speed you would have absolutely no power if you were running below 3000 rpm due to wind resistance.
Absolutely true! With a car such as the MS6, you want a LOT of pull, no matter what gear you're in. Sometimes you need that power RIGHT NOW, not having time to shift. To have it bog down at 80 MPH for the sake of fuel economy is unacceptable to me.
Way too high for a 6 speed (or really a 5 speed too). You'll get lousy mileage at freeway speeds (80-90). I've had this problem with Mazda before - my Pro ES was a horrible freeway car for this reason. Running to Vegas or Az I'd end up getting 24 mpg80-85mph compared to 31 mpg 95-100 in my 330i.
You forgot a MAJOR factor with that comparison. Your Pro was a 4-cyl, the BMW, a 6-cyl. My point? Any 4-cyl car needs more throttle to keep up on the highway compared to the bigger, more powerful engines. More throttle means lower gas mileage.
Happened to me. My old Grand Am was a 4-cyl, and I got about 23 MPG, as compared to my 6s with V6, which gets about 26 MPG.
There's nothing sporting or fun about a car that accelerates hard in top gear at 70 mph.
What? :confuse: Did I miss something? Are you nuts?
With six gears, the Speed6 gets about the same gas mileage as the Legacy GT (5 spd), right? Couldn't they make 6th a "tall" (if that's the right word) overdrive gear for lower RPM and higher MPG highway cruising? If they could bump up highway MPG to 30 or so, that would give it a definite edge over the Legacy GT. It seems like they could keep the first five gears short and tight for quick acceleration and still get better MPG.
Not necessarily. Chances are the most you'll get would be 1-2 MPG more, at the expense of taking the car straight out of the power curve.
This car wasn't built for fuel economy! It's a rip snorting sports sedan.
Rip-snorting? No, no, no! It's a "balls-to-the-wall" sports sedan!
Amen to both!! :shades: If I want fuel economy, I'd buy a Prius. But then again, I have a soul...
Absolutely agree. I have a six-speed BMW and find the gears too tall in general. I find that I need to downshift two gears to get out of the way sometimes. Having too tall 6th gear negates the benefit of six gears in my opinion. I like to have the gears closely aligned so that you can have the engine at it's sweet spot at all times/speeds. If it was running above 4k rpm at 70mph, I would find it unacceptable but 3k is just fine, especially when you are running a 4-cyl. I find myself in 5th gear sometimes even at 80mph in my BMW just to make sure I have enough power on the fly.
I made that post and he had a decent response and no one else seemed to have anything to say. Man it feels good to have others agree with your position. I just wanted to thank you guys for the vindication. Long live the tightly geared sports sedan. Modock
To me this is a non-issue. Given the final drive ratio of 3.35 for the Mazdaspeed6 and a 6th gear ratio of 0.853, and 3.15 and 0.85 for the 330i, we're talking about a total top gear ratio of 2.86 for the Mazda vs 2.68 for the BMW, or about a 7% difference. Then factor in the almost 2" larger tire circumference for the Mazdaspeed and the engine rev difference comes down to about 4%, which is hardly dramatic. (BTW, the specs I used are for the 2006 330i)
4% more revs in top gear is a tradeoff I'd gladly make for more closely spaced gears from 1 to 6.
and then you'd have people complaining "this sux. i can either run 5K rpms in 5th or 1800 rpms in 6th. One is too much and the other is too little. Whaaaaaa."
you can't make everyone happy.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Not quite. I've heard that some dealers have sold out their allotment already, and are NOT expecting any more. I'm conservatively guessing that at least 3000 of those cars have deposits on them already.
I've heard that some dealers have sold out their allotment already, and are NOT expecting any more. I'm conservatively guessing that at least 3000 of those cars have deposits on them already.
Dealers will always tell you that. "We're not getting any more." A Pontiac salesman if he was sure a person didn't read would claim the dealership can't keep Azteks on the lot. Nature of the beast...they create scarcity through mendacity.
I don't for 1 second believe they have 3k firm orders. I don't even believe Mazda has 1000 firm orders on the Mazdaspeed6. Maybe 500. And that's pushing it. This is a Mazda...I expect $2500 rebates on the Mazdaspeed by May/June of 06.
That is a bit high, given the V6 model has been out for years now.
For comparison, Subaru is only building 500 Spec B models of their Legacy GT. Then again, the Legacy GT is already a turbo, so that's a bit different. The Spec B is closer to the MS6 though (18" rims, tight suspension).
I just visited Mazda's website, and for the Speed 6, it says, "COMING SOON." I thought it was here (or supposed to be here) already! More delays? It's interesting that there are lease/purchase incentives listed for the Speed 6.
An all-new active-torque-split all-wheel-drive system...in Normal mode, power is applied to all wheels, with the majority of the power headed to the front. During heavy acceleration, Sport mode takes over, transferring 50 percent of the torque to the rear. In Snow mode, traction to all wheels is maximized.
Is Mazda run by idiots? They've got an AWD system and they make it FWD bias...even during hard acceleration it's not RWD bias? That's one of the silliest designs ever. I wonder if this is only software related...ie a tuner can defeat that system with new software and apply 80-90-100% of the traction to the rear wheels?
Expect to make quick work of gears two and three on the way to 60 mph,
I take that to mean the 6 requires a shift to third to only reach 60. Oh man, if that's true no wonder the 0-60 times are so high.
Frustrating mini review too as the author never directly addresses if the car handles at Audi/BMW levels.
Gotta pop over to Karl Brauer's blog and ask him for his take...
Not yet. My old man wrote an order on the car I test drove and they just received their second Speed6 in. This one is fully loaded and all black. Very mean looking car in all black
I'll probably take it for another spin early next week if it doesn't sell over the weekend. Traffic on the car has been good, with lot's of people seeing the ad for the car in most major car magazines this month.
Comments
-juice
-juice
I made comments several posts ago about my expectation of fairly sizable discounts to be had on the MS6 within the next 6-12 months, but this really surprises me (in a good way).
Now, I don't know all the details, but I do know there is a difference between Carsdirect's "Target" price and their "Carsdirect" price. I know you actually lock into the "Carsdirect" price once you make the deal with them, but I believe a "Target" price is more of an estimate.
I wonder if Carsdirect is basing these discounts on the pricing history of the normal Mazda6, and if you actually tried to purchase one, that discount would go away.
Hmmm... maybe I should just try and go through the purchase process on Carsdirect. What's the worst that could happen - I actually get a MS6 GT for $1,500 off? : )
2024 Audi Q8 e-tron - 2017 911 C4S - 2025 BRZ - 2023 A6 Allroad - 2024 Genesis GV60 - 2019 Cayman
Only one 06 Miata.
Not a single Mazda5.
No MazdaSpeeds of any sort.
Pretty lame, wasted my time. At least I was in the area and just dropped in.
-juice
was hoping to see some test drive reviews from the weekend. I guess the cars aren't on dealer lots yet...
also - can you take pics and post? that'd be sweet!
:confuse:
Thanks
The dealer spec deck does not indicate a folding rear seat, like the regular versions of the MZ6. I will check the car when it arrives.
... all you really need is about 2200 rpm for the Speed6 to take off. Even on the highway, where 70 mph translates to a little more than 3000 rpm, a light brush of the gas pedal causes it to scoot off like a frightened kitten.
That pretty much destroys the Mazdaspeed6 for me. 3k rpm at 70?! My god, how high will the engine spin at 80-90-100? A drive to Vegas would probably have the tach pegged in the 4-5k range,. Bummer. When will Mazda learn how to gear cars?
First off that 3K at 70 is about what most manual transmission cars run at or around. My wife's 01 civic is at about 3200 at 70. Now lets do some simple math. 3K at 70. that is about 42.85 rmp per mph. so if you want to know at 80 that is 80 X 42.85 = 3428 rmp. 90 is 90 X 42.82 = 3857 and 100 is 100 X 42.85 = 4285.
My god it is a tragedy. At around 95 mph you will be running at 4000 rpm. You do realize that at that speed you would have absolutely no power if you were running below 3000 rpm due to wind resistance.
Just some of my thoughts
Not 6 speeds. This is a 6 speed, not a 5 speed.
My wife's 01 civic is at about 3200 at 70. Now lets do some simple math. 3K at 70. that is about 42.85 rmp per mph. so if you want to know at 80 that is 80 X 42.85 = 3428 rmp. 90 is 90 X 42.82 = 3857 and 100 is 100 X 42.85 = 4285.
Way too high for a 6 speed (or really a 5 speed too). You'll get lousy mileage at freeway speeds (80-90). I've had this problem with Mazda before - my Pro ES was a horrible freeway car for this reason. Running to Vegas or Az I'd end up getting 24 mpg@80-85mph compared to 31 mpg @95-100 in my 330i.
My Escort GT was like that, it had the 1.8l engine and 5 speed trans from the Protoge ES. Driving to Florida and back, it was at 4000 rpm for extended periods. Never was a problem, though, the powertrain was perfect until the car was totalled with 107k miles on it.
-juice
You can have both - to think these two are mutually exclusive is myopic at best. The other cars in this 30k+ segment - as I see the segment - offer good fuel economy, fun handling and great engine performance: A3, A4, Passat, 325i, TL, IS250.
Of those the A3, A4, TL, and 325i get better mileage, are faster and lighter. I can't comment on handling yet...
1st = 0-25-30 mph
2nd = 30-62 mph
3rd = 62-95mph
4th = 95-125
5th = 125 - 155
6th = cruising
I buy manuals so I can change gears! If the gearing is too close then the car doesn't have much in the way of fun for the driver.
I like when I'm in 6th at 65-70 and I decide I need to get on my horse. Drop down to 3rd or 4th and let'er rip.
I've never driven a car with that much oomph so low. I can't wait to try it!
Blueguy, thanks for the link. It's nice to read a review of an actual production Speed6. So, you've eliminated the IS350 and Speed6...what's left on your list? (Just curious.)
Thanks,
Greg
I'll still try the Mazdaspeed. I adore Mazdas - best cars I've ever owned - but it's become a longshot now.
If that doesn't cut it, everything falls to the ole 07 GTI and if we're lucky a Mazdaspeed3.
Rip-snorting? No, no, no! It's a "balls-to-the-wall" sports sedan! :surprise:
The 6i and 6s with manuals run about 3200 RPM at 75 MPH, give or take a few hundred RPM. It's a plus for me, considering that I DON'T need to downshift when I want to get around traffic on the highway. Knowing this, I imagine that the MS6 would be a blast on the highway.
When will Mazda learn how to gear cars?
They do know. That's why I bought one!
At around 95 mph you will be running at 4000 rpm. You do realize that at that speed you would have absolutely no power if you were running below 3000 rpm due to wind resistance.
Absolutely true! With a car such as the MS6, you want a LOT of pull, no matter what gear you're in. Sometimes you need that power RIGHT NOW, not having time to shift. To have it bog down at 80 MPH for the sake of fuel economy is unacceptable to me.
Way too high for a 6 speed (or really a 5 speed too). You'll get lousy mileage at freeway speeds (80-90). I've had this problem with Mazda before - my Pro ES was a horrible freeway car for this reason. Running to Vegas or Az I'd end up getting 24 mpg80-85mph compared to 31 mpg 95-100 in my 330i.
You forgot a MAJOR factor with that comparison. Your Pro was a 4-cyl, the BMW, a 6-cyl. My point? Any 4-cyl car needs more throttle to keep up on the highway compared to the bigger, more powerful engines. More throttle means lower gas mileage.
Happened to me. My old Grand Am was a 4-cyl, and I got about 23 MPG, as compared to my 6s with V6, which gets about 26 MPG.
There's nothing sporting or fun about a car that accelerates hard in top gear at 70 mph.
What? :confuse: Did I miss something? Are you nuts?
With six gears, the Speed6 gets about the same gas mileage as the Legacy GT (5 spd), right? Couldn't they make 6th a "tall" (if that's the right word) overdrive gear for lower RPM and higher MPG highway cruising? If they could bump up highway MPG to 30 or so, that would give it a definite edge over the Legacy GT. It seems like they could keep the first five gears short and tight for quick acceleration and still get better MPG.
Not necessarily. Chances are the most you'll get would be 1-2 MPG more, at the expense of taking the car straight out of the power curve.
This car wasn't built for fuel economy! It's a rip snorting sports sedan.
Rip-snorting? No, no, no! It's a "balls-to-the-wall" sports sedan!
Amen to both!! :shades: If I want fuel economy, I'd buy a Prius. But then again, I have a soul...
Modock
4% more revs in top gear is a tradeoff I'd gladly make for more closely spaced gears from 1 to 6.
you can't make everyone happy.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Mazda deliberately chose to make those of us happy that want tight gearing.
Interesting conclusion: The hottest Mazda in the lineup comes ... only for a select 5,000 buyers.
Dealers will always tell you that. "We're not getting any more." A Pontiac salesman if he was sure a person didn't read would claim the dealership can't keep Azteks on the lot. Nature of the beast...they create scarcity through mendacity.
I don't for 1 second believe they have 3k firm orders. I don't even believe Mazda has 1000 firm orders on the Mazdaspeed6. Maybe 500. And that's pushing it. This is a Mazda...I expect $2500 rebates on the Mazdaspeed by May/June of 06.
For comparison, Subaru is only building 500 Spec B models of their Legacy GT. Then again, the Legacy GT is already a turbo, so that's a bit different. The Spec B is closer to the MS6 though (18" rims, tight suspension).
-juice
groovypippin: Did you get another test drive?
Thanks,
Greg
Sounds like a winner.
Is Mazda run by idiots? They've got an AWD system and they make it FWD bias...even during hard acceleration it's not RWD bias? That's one of the silliest designs ever. I wonder if this is only software related...ie a tuner can defeat that system with new software and apply 80-90-100% of the traction to the rear wheels?
Expect to make quick work of gears two and three on the way to 60 mph,
I take that to mean the 6 requires a shift to third to only reach 60. Oh man, if that's true no wonder the 0-60 times are so high.
Frustrating mini review too as the author never directly addresses if the car handles at Audi/BMW levels.
Gotta pop over to Karl Brauer's blog and ask him for his take...
Thing is, the Haldex doesn't have a center differential, so it won't allow for slip between the two axles, and can therefore not be used full-time.
Even when you hit the brakes, it basically disengages the rear axle.
-juice
I'll probably take it for another spin early next week if it doesn't sell over the weekend. Traffic on the car has been good, with lot's of people seeing the ad for the car in most major car magazines this month.