MAZDASPEED Mazda6

kronogoose

breld, I've been wondering the same thing, and I'm getting mixed messages. I seem to recall reading sometime earlier in this forum that a lot of (whatever that means) Mazdaspeed Proteges sat on dealer lots and sold for cheap. All I know about that is that I saw a MS Protege for a period of about 6 months sitting in a dealer's showroom, and I don't know when it sold. The above post about the Mazdaspeed Miata not selling well seems to support the idea that Speed models are not hot sellers. This leads me to think the MS6 may not sell all that great and maybe in a year or two when I'm in the market, they'll be selling well under MSRP.

The other side of the dilemma is the news I've been reading here about most (whatever that means) of the MS6s being pre-sold or pre-ordered. That makes me think it'll be hard to get a hold of one, even for a test drive.

My personal hope is that the MS6 will be enough of an enthusiast's vehicle (as noted above...manual trans only) that there won't be high demand for it, and I'll be able to get a great deal (around $25K...am I dreaming?).

gee35coupe

That's what I'm hoping for. It happened to the other models of this ilk after the initial demand wore off. But this is the first one that might have legs since it's not a pretty much stripped Protege other than go-fast stuff and a turbo convertible. This car actually has utility.

ateixeira

A Bimmer will always be a Bimmer, sure, but a couple of issues I have with that - everyone's got one, so now they're nothing special, i.e. they don't stand out. It's the Camry of sport sedans. Not in terms of performance, just in terms of how common it is. People don't blink an eye any more.

The MazdaSpeed model is special and will be comparatively rare. It's the M3 of the Mazda6 lineup. Enthusiasts who recognize it will give you the thumbs up. I like that.

Today, if you pull up in an early 90s BMW, OK, well hello, how ya doing. Drive up in a very rare Galant VR-4 AWD turbo and people will walk up and start asking questions, as you to pop the hood, peek underneath to see the AWD system.

Dunno, I just think that's cool.

-juice

breld

"Enthusiasts who recognize it will give you the thumbs up"

Great point - I like that. Because a lot of the buying public purchase the Bimmers and Audis sort of as status symbols, I think it sort of taints the brand for some of us enthusiasts. Because Subaru and Mazda do not carry the cache that the premium brands do, they seem more "pure." More purposeful. Even the new Accord V6 sedan 6 speed is sort of like that. Only distinct wheels and a red V6 badge distinguish it from any other Accord. So it's a real sleeper, but "those who know" will give you that "thumbs up."

As far as the ongoing discussion on pricing, I think the one thing that might be different about the MS6 compared to the other Mazdaspeed vehicles is its practicality. The Protege was sort of a "pocket-rocket" geared toward the younger crowd, and the Miata is what it is - a two-seater convertible that my 6' 3" frame would never fit in. As a more than adequately sized four door sedan, with AWD, the MS6 is a very practical sports sedan. Throw some smaller wheels with snow tires on it for the winter months, and you've got an awesome year-round daily driver.

blueguydotcom

Ate, i couldn't care less about how people feel regarding my car. Well that's not totally true. I hate when people come up to me and ask me about my car. It happened tonight. I had to pick some friends up at the airport and their plane was delayed. I stopped at a diner to kill time. A girl came up to my table and asked me about my car parked outside. Where was that girl when I was driving a 91 stanza? She wouldn't have given me the time of day and certainly wouldn't have walked over to my table.

I've got no use for that kinda thing...be it a golddigger or enthusiast. I'd prefer to just be ignored.

When i mentioned replacing my car with a mazdaspeed6 a guy at lunch turned up his nose. How could I dare go from x to a mazda. Whatever. I don't buy badges.

audia8q

One thing is different with the MazdaSpeed6 compared to the other speed cars....We have pre-sold a large percentage of our allocation. The other speed cars didn't pre-sell nearly as well. More folks wanted to see it in person first.

autonomous

One thing is different with the MazdaSpeed6 compared to the other speed cars....We have pre-sold a large percentage of our allocation.

What is the allocation for your dealership, Rich? My understanding from one of your previous posts is that your February order has been presold completely but one. Did you then request more based on demand? Could you remind me also if this is a Japanese-built or American-built vehicle? Thanks in advance.

kronogoose

Is that (Speed6 models mostly pre-sold) just at your dealership, or is it nationwide? Does "pre-sold" mean that it's actually sold to the customer, or does that mean that he/she has a guaranteed shot at buying one? Could the customer back out and leave it on the lot?

breld, I think you referred to the Speed6 as a "sleeper". That's what really appeals to me about this car. To the untrained eye, it's just another family sedan, but underneath, there's all those fantastic upgrades. And thankfully, it doesn't scream for attention with a gaping hood scoop or massive rear wing.

I don't think I'm above buying a badge. If I ever buy a Lexus or Mercedes, it will partially be for the name recognition but mostly for what the car offers. When it's all said and done, my car is a place I have to live in for a couple of hours everyday, and I want that place to be comfortable, reliable and when needed--fun. And the fact that I like how it looks is an added bonus!

audia8q

As of now I will be getting a total of 17...They ran a second allocation this month, which was planned and I got a few more based on earnings. With Mazda you only get cars you earn based on the turn and earn allocation system. They like to spread out the entire speed allocation over a few months so dealers don't get all the cars at once. The change in the gearing screwed up the timeline...All Speeds are built in Japan.

Kronogoose....$500 Deposits for a specific car with the options and color they want. Subject to test drive, of course. I will let people back out as long as they didn't order the white interior. I don't know the status nationwide since it's not reported to mazda until the car is delivered but most of the dealers in my area are doing the sametime. During both allocations all available cars were ordered....This signals that dealers are feeling good about the cars sales potential...Remember, that not all mazda dealers are speed dealers.

After getting a 2006 MZ6 grand touring in yesterday with a sticker price of $31,105 the Speed6 is looking like a bargain.

kronogoose

Thanks for the information and explanation.

Are you receiving a mix of Sport- and Grand Touring packages for the Speed6? Just out of curiosity...why no backing out on a white interior?

Thanks again.

- Greg

stickguy

So, what will a speed 6 with leather, power seat and moonroof cost?

breld

About $31.4k, if I recall correctly. You can price them now at Mazdausa.com (go to "future vehicles")

ateixeira

Maybe not - make sure they'd fit over those beefy brake rotors.

-juice

audia8q

90% Grand Touring. I personally don't like the white interior and apparently nobody else does either...no takers at my store.

slammie

Very happy to find out about the MS6. I own a 96' 626, which I've loved over the years (practical, good handling, like the way Mazdas feel, blah blah), and will be in the market for a new ride in March or Apr 06. I'm in the Twin Cities and have been researching for an AWD sedan with a stick. I drove a Volvo S40 T5/AWD and really liked it, but practicality sends me back to Subaru Legacy. The Volvo is a cool machine but small and $$$$. Loaded, the S40 is 37K. Although the Subaru just doesn't do it for me. Something about it rubs me the wrong way. So again thank goodness the the MS6, an it's made in Japan--bonus!!

My question: I have to wait until next year to get the car, so will they all be gone? Will I have to wait for 07's? Or, will the dealership receive a steady stream of them through the model year?

audia8q

Good news....

My most recent status update shows two of our MZ6Speeds "on the water"....ETA oct week 4.

kronogoose

audia8q,

Thanks for the update and for answering my questions in particular.

Do you mind me asking if you worked for Mazda when the Speed Protege came out? Would you care to speculate how the MZ6Speed will sell, based upon how the Speed Protege sold?

Thanks again!

- Greg

audia8q

Yes, I was with Mazda when the SpeedProtege came out....We sold most of them to buyers in the 18-25 range. Younger buyers present some insurance and income issues that we dont expect to see with the speed6....the 6speed seems to be attracting 35-50 yr old buyers. For the most part that eliminates the income and insurance issue...

kronogoose

That makes sense. Not surprisingly, I fit into the Speed6 demographic (37 years young).

Thanks again!

- Greg

blueguydotcom

Only 31. Still I think I'd be at home in one.

kronogoose

audia8q,

Would you be able to post some photos when the Speed6 arrives? Will you get a chance to test drive one?

Thanks,

- Greg

ateixeira

I'd get on the list now. By next year you'll be shopping the MazdaSpeed 3 instead.

Look how quickly the VW R32 sold out. Used ones were actually selling for above MSRP after they were gone, for a little while anyway.

-juice

blueguydotcom

VW's R32 was highly anticipated and quickly sucked up by VW's insane legions. Mazda is respected but they don't have frothing-at-the-mouth fans who will drink the corporate kool-aid without hesitation.

I expect the Mazdaspeed6 will be a little more popular than the MS Pro. Okay seller but not WRX early days crazy.

slammie

Is this car a 1 year deal or will they make a 2007 model?

tpo1

This is not new (Feb 05) but has some interesting speculation. I like the following quote:
"Even though we think the 6 is quicker than Mazda's forecast, suspicion later hardened to near certainty after a few laps at a racetrack near Okayama, Japan. "
The full Car & Driver article can be found at:
Car & Driver

I have had a deposit on 1 of 4 MS6"s coming into my Calgary dealer since July

blueguydotcom

old review of the old car....the new car better be far quicker and more nimble than the one they tested or they'll never sell one.

mz6greyghost

That test drive was done when Mazda was running the old gearing. As reported earlier, the new final drive gearing has changed, and the MS6 should be MUCH QUICKER than those old results suggest.

Of course, I'll GLADLY comfirm the results if someone would donate their MS6 to me for a few days... :shades:

audia8q

I prob won't drive the car until it gets here at the end of October....OTOH my salespeople will be sent to Speed school at the sametime in Pheonix @ firebird raceway. They will be comparing the Speed6 to the Audi a4 2.0t quattro, BMW 235ix and Subaru gt.

slammie

What a great comparison! I'm hoping the mags have comparison tests out soon. Are all dealers getting this education? My dealer is going to call me when 2 arrive at her store in early Oct. They are not spoken for as of yet, and will be available for test drive.

These early cars will not have Nav. She suspects they won't get the GT with Nav until possibly Nov, but she was able to tell what colors and options are available on the cars with Nav.

ateixeira

That Audi is a bit heavy, so it won't present much of a challenge. Plus the engine is more about smoothness that brute-force power delivery. Might be fun to compare a *chipped* 2.0FSI, though.

325 now has a 3.0l, so that's more of a challenge.

Leg GT is a good match, I'd love to compare those. They should test a Spec B model specifically, since it has 18" rims like the MS6.

-juice

blueguydotcom

250+ hp, 300 ft-lbs of torque. They so need to release an A3 2.0T Quattro.

mazda6s

Subaru has dropped the standard Legacy GT for 2006 so only the Legacy GT Unlimited will be available. This means you can't get a 2006 Legacy GT with cloth seats (but you CAN get a Mazdaspeed6 with cloth). That's really too bad. I drove a 2006 Legacy GT Unlimited last weekend. There were only 2 salespeople there, so they let me take it out alone. It's fast, and no wheel spin due to the AWD. Launch it at about 4000 RPMs in 1st and then take it to red line in each gear. Oh ya. What's the best published 0-60 time on this car, 5.7s or something like that?

blueguydotcom

I believe 5.6 is the best published time. The leather in the legacy was pretty bad - almost as bad as the mazda3's "leather".

Need to check, does the mazdaspeed6 have power/memory leather seats? I wouldn't mind power/memory cloth and then do aftermarket leather (much better quality).

ateixeira

Yeah, high 5s basically. Low 6s for auto.

GT Limited is set up just a bit soft, though, so shop for the Spec B, it's closer to the MazdaSpeed 6. Subaru will only make 500, though, and you might not like the brick red leather.

-juice

tpo1

Stumbled upon the Japanese site with the "Atenza"
click here

Click on the ENTER link and then the Atenza car, then the "Atenza Special Site" link in bottom right, one more "ENTER" button and finally MAZDASPEED link in the lower left.
Not too much English text but some interesting images and videos.

slammie

Wow, thanks! .Much better site than we have. Lots of footage and interviews I'm assuming with Mazdaspeed engineers. I wish I spoke Japanese.

zoomzoomguy

I for one would rather have the smaller MazdaSpeed3 when it comes out.

ateixeira

I'd agree if only they'd add AWD. Without it, Mazda is stuck marketing it against the SRT-4 and Cobalt SS. It should be going up against the EVO and STI, not those others.

-juice

blueguydotcom

mazdaspeed3 interests me a bit more than the 6. more room, lighter car, better driving position (for me). i love the little mazda3 - just don't dig how slow it is.

and yes with awd it'd be among the wrx. my guess is volvo might not dig the idea of a mazda3 with awd - way cheaper and nicer than the s40.

ateixeira

I hate it when you are limited by your platform-mates in terms of how far you can go. An S40 T5 with AWD costs a small fortune, that's a lot to spend on this platform. The MazdaSpeed3 would be at a better price level, too bad.

-juice

blueguydotcom

agreed. mazda should fight tooth and nail for it. the mazda3 is already a smash sales success. they should ride that thing into the ground - release a cabrio two door, an awd hatch. milk it. it's a great little car and ford would be stupid not to let mazda get every sale they can out of that platform.

qbrozen

i'd be surprised if the s40 would be a reason for not offering AWD on the 3. I mean, look at how thin ford stretches other cars. just about everything is available as a Ford, Mercury, and Lincoln. That's 3 makes that, i believe, all sell in higher volumes than either volvo or mazda.

ateixeira

Volvo is making a folding hard top fit this platform, perhaps Mazda could have a soft-top version of it? That ought to be cheaper.

Chrysler did that with the old Benz SLK platform.

I love my Miata but eventually I'll need 4 seats even for my toy.

-juice

breld

"I love my Miata but eventually I'll need 4 seats even for my toy."

RX-8? I've been eyeing these on the used-car market. Supply is starting to increase, and prices are coming down. They'll be sub-$20k soon.

My wife just doesn't seem to think a third "toy" car is terribly practical at this point in our lives, with two young children. Hard to argue that - but you're in the same situation, aren't you juice?

So, (to bring back on-topic), maybe a MS6 would be a great answer to combine the toy-factor and practicality together - all in one. A wagon or hatch would be perfect from the family-car aspect. Why could they have not kept the hatch concept?

stickguy

that's my theory too. I ended up selling my miata and maxima, and getting a Scion tC. The plan was one fun car with enough practicality to be my only car. It sorta works, but has some limitations.

the speed6 would be a whole different animal though. Lots of fun, and more practical to boot.

One thing though, my general rule is that the toy needs to be a convertible. At some point, post kids (or at least when one is gone, and the other is a teenager) something like C70 (small 4 seat convertible) would be OK for an only car.

Also, they don't use the hatch for the hot rod version because the sedan is stiffer and weighs less, and should allow for better handling (since it is stiffer). Not many people buy the hatch wither in the 6.

breld

FWIW - I got my November issues of Car & Driver and Automobile yesterday - both have full page ads for the Mazdaspeed6.

Actually - those ads are among the most interesting things in these issues - both have comparisons of high-end sports cars. I'm sure it's a good read for most enthusiasts, but these days, I am more interested in reading about cars that I can actually afford - is it sad that I get more excited about the bread-and-butter family sedan face-offs versus the Ford GT vs. 911 comparisons?

blueguydotcom

Not sad. Realistic, While I like reading about a ferrari v. gt40, the reality is: I couldn't stomach dropping 150k on a car. I feel sick thinking about that. Now the cayman s...it's calling my name but reality insists no porsche unless it's a 911 turbo. otherwise any other porsche seems to look like a compensation device.

ateixeira

Yep, and for some reason the RX8 doesn't do it for me, not like the RX7 did way back when. Dunno. It's odd looking, plus the issues with oil consumption and poor fuel economy, both important issues to me. My Miata is very low maintenance even at 15 years old, an RX8 would not be.

Speed 6 actually interests me more. For a toy I want a folding top, period.

-juice

kernick

I've also heard about the oil consumption and especially the relatively poor mpg of the RX-8. Now I'm sure the theoretical reasons for the rotary, or its subjective benefits of sound and feel exist. But most people are interested in how an engine performs. Maybe the 2.3 of the Speed6 will migrate to the RX-8 or would that be RX-9?

I have an '01 Firebird Formula and an '04 X-Type and am thinking of simplifying to 1 car. the Speed 6 sounds like it is a melding of the performance of both of my current cars. But then I'm thinking of waiting to see if the redesigned '07 STi and EVO X lose their boy-racer looks. Decisions, decisions; thank god I don't have a lot of money to expand my options.

BTW, the Speed6 doesn't have a timing belt, does it? Knowing I have a large maint. bill, really kills the deal for me.

wayde

It's now October 11th... ads in magazines... cars s/b here any day now right?