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MAZDASPEED Mazda6

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  • kronogoosekronogoose Member Posts: 116
    A friend of mine is shopping for a 3. The salesperson told him the MazdaSpeed6 will be out in three weeks and the MazdaSpeed3 in two years. Geez! Can't we just get a straight answer?

    I just got an email from Mazda saying the Speed6 will be available in the fall...what does that mean?

    Oh well. I suppose patience is a good thing. :)
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    In three weeks we'll be a couple of days into the fall season. Just keep checking the lots until they appear one day if your dealer won't give you a hard date.
  • mazda6smazda6s Member Posts: 1,901
    Do you really believe anything a salesperson tells you? :surprise:
  • kronogoosekronogoose Member Posts: 116
    Absolutely not! I have a feeling that with the little research I do online about Mazda vehicles, I probably know more about the 3 and 6 than some salespeople. My friend that I mentioned earlier has had experience with that: he told me about one salesperson who didn't even know the Speed versions were coming out!

    (Disclaimer: I know there are many well-informed and knowledgeable salespeople out there...I just wish they all were! Especially when they're trying to get me to spend a big chunk of money on a car.)
  • mazda6smazda6s Member Posts: 1,901
    The trick is to figure out which salespeople (and sales managers) are actually knowedgeable and which ones are just trying to BS you.
    Some of the good ones even hang around here sometimes. :shades:
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    To be honest that may be what they are hearing from Mazda, yet the plans keep changing. We should not blame the sales staff.

    -juice
  • audia8qaudia8q Member Posts: 3,138
    We can't get any actual ETA from Mazda on this car....they are telling us "fall availability"

    I've had my initial allocation on order since Feb. All sold but one.
    Based on build and shipping times we are looking at late fall at this point, if we're lucky..
    OTOH, they could have them built and not telling us. Sometimes Mazda can be a little sneaky.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Are you getting MSRP or close?

    -juice
  • mazda6smazda6s Member Posts: 1,901
    Do you really need to ask? :surprise:
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    A man can dream, can't he? ;)

    -juice
  • audia8qaudia8q Member Posts: 3,138
    ateixeira....we are selling them for MSRP. Our two nearest competators are shooting for $2000 over MSRP. I don't know if they are getting it or not.

    I got some VIN numbers today....showing September production of the first three. So they are finially on the way.
  • waydewayde Member Posts: 198
    An article in Automotive News this week (read the online edition) says that the MS6 should be arriving in dealers the end of this month. The reason for the delay was due to the NA chief wanting a different final drive ratio... so the car had to go through the EPA's 90 day recertification process again.
    So... they're on their way! :)
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Member Posts: 1,230
    The reason for the delay was due to the NA chief wanting a different final drive ratio... so the car had to go through the EPA's 90 day recertification process again.

    Finally! Someone from Mazda realized the MS6 was too slow!!

    Here are the ratio changes:
    Old ratios: 3.611(1st-4th), 3.095(5&6th)
    New ratios: 3.941(1st-4th), 3.350(5&6th)
    Gas mileage is now 19 city, 28 highway.

    With these changes, I expect the 0-60 to be well within 6 seconds, and the 1/4 mile in the mid 13's.

    I'd gladly ditch 1 MPG to get more kick off the line! Who cares about fuel economy with a MS6 anyway?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Yeah, the target market isn't exactly after fuel economy. Those gears should give it much better punch off the line. No doubt they're trying to stay in the same ballpark as the STI, EVO, and Legacy GT. City mileage is about par and highway miles are actually darn good.

    -juice
  • kronogoosekronogoose Member Posts: 116
    audia8q, wayde and mz6greyghost...thanks for the information! It's great having some actual information about the MS6. Too bad we couldn't get it from the mazda website directly.

    Does anyone know if the Speed6 is being built alongside other Mazda6 models? I seem to recall that it was being hand-built, but that seems to be too much to ask for a $30k car.

    I would find 28 MPG hwy very acceptable. I guess we'll have to wait for some "real world" numbers.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Automotive News has a full article, it's funny because the Mazda exec actually accepts blame for the delays. Rarely does that happen.

    -juice
  • waydewayde Member Posts: 198
    From what I've read all (European, Japanese, and US) MS6's are being built in Japan. The low volume (6,000 projected US sales) doesn't justify building this model in 2 or more locations. (I think all Europe-destined M6's are built in Japan to begin with.)
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Member Posts: 1,230
    From what I've read all (European, Japanese, and US) MS6's are being built in Japan. The low volume (6,000 projected US sales) doesn't justify building this model in 2 or more locations. (I think all Europe-destined M6's are built in Japan to begin with.)

    That's right.

    European models are built in Japan, and so will the MS6.

    The only country with it's own assembly plant is the US, where it builds the regular-model 6's in Michigan (same plant as the Mustang, and the New Fusion/Milan/Zephyr) for the US and (I think) Canadian markets.
  • baggs32baggs32 Member Posts: 3,229
    where it builds the regular-model 6's in Michigan (same plant as the Mustang, and the New Fusion/Milan/Zephyr)

    Just to clarify, the Fusion, Milan, and Zephyr are built in the newly redone Hermosillo, Mexico plant. AAI does not have enough capacity to build anything but the Stang and 6 sedan, wagon, and hatch right now. I'm guessing the Shelby GT500 Mustang Cobra will be built there eventually too.

    Hey! Maybe we can get an AWD 6 with the GT500's motor someday! :surprise: ;)
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Member Posts: 1,230
    Hmm, I must've read something wrong before... Sorry...
  • xplorx4xplorx4 Member Posts: 621
    I'm confused. How do you get different final drive ratios for 1-4 and 5-6? Isn't the final drive ratio the same, regardless of the transmission gear ratio? Can anyone point me to a technical "howstuffworks" explanation?
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    It is the same. They probably lowered the final drive, but then made 5th and 6th gear taller than before. Tall enough to offset the shorter final drive.

    -juice
  • redc0ugarredc0ugar Member Posts: 55
    Baggs...Thanks for remembering WHO builds the Pony & our 6! :shades:
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    we were discussing the gearing issue, and whether or not it was the right decision to shorten the final drive ratio.

    I was saying it's OK, because this is a specialty vehicle and that type of buyer doesn't put fuel economy high on the priority list. After all, it'll require premium fuel.

    Also, a 2.3 turbo has lower compression than a N/A 2.3l engine, so in fact it makes slightly less power off boost. The shorter gearing keeps the engine closer to the boost zone so you have throttle response at highway speeds.

    Ok, now, discuss....

    :D

    -juice
  • waydewayde Member Posts: 198
    at the dealer, please post pics asap :)
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249

    I'd gladly ditch 1 MPG to get more kick off the line! Who cares about fuel economy with a MS6 anyway?


    I care. I'm used to getting 31 mpg from a more powerful, better handling sport sedan. I find the numbers listed on the site 20/26 (not sure where you got your numbers but they're different from the mazdausa.com site) apalling. On long trips I tend to average well over 85 mph and 30+ mpg. Given the gearing of 6th for speed and not economy (utterly stupid), the 6 will probably return 23-24 on a long drive. That's embarassing.

    And no, making 6th really tall would not mean that 1-3 is geared for economy. gear up to 2nd for 63-65 mpg, 3rd for 95 mph and then begin to set the remainder for languid cruising.

    I like when I'm doing 75 in 6th to drop to 4th when I need power. That is afterall why I bought a manual...to shift gears. Having power in 6th is just not worthwhile.

    20/26 is what's listed at mazda: http://www.mazdausa.com/MusaWeb/pdf/specs_features/veh_specs_MS6.pdf

    Shameful really.
  • mazda6smazda6s Member Posts: 1,901
    bluedotcomguy - you should stop worrying about it and buy something else.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    Not much out there that interests me.

    TL - bloated, torque steer
    Legacy GT = unrefined, thrashy, horrid gas mileage, poor handling
    G35 = bad gas mileage, large, sit too high, unrefined engine, twitchy handling
    A4 = bloated, poor handling, quatto's heavy, fwd is not fun
    CTS = joke
    Saab = joke
    Mercedes = expensive, unreliable, no soul
    Jetta GLI = piggish handling, bad brakes
    TSX = slick 6 speed but not enough juice, FWD
    350z = too cramped
    Accord coupe v6 = slick engine, great tranny, poor, sloppy handling and torque steer
    Altima/Maxima = unrefined engine, cheap chassis, poor handling, torque steer

    On the bubble:

    A3 2.0/DSG
    e90 330i (strongest contender)

    Undriven:

    Lexus IS350
    Mazdaspeed6
    Mazdaspeed3
    VW GTI
    S2000

    The mazdaspeed cars are one of my last hopes to avoid getting another unreliable BMW.
  • mazda6smazda6s Member Posts: 1,901
    Have you driven the '06 GLI? I thought the handling and brakes were great, very similar to the A3, and it has the same 2.0T and 6MT as the A3. Reliability, OTOH, is a big question.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Have you priced a well equipped 330i? I know someone that paid $46k for one that was well equipped.

    So some math, here, and you'll find you'll save about $10-15 grand over the Bimmer by going with the Mazda.

    That will buy gas, even at the current price spikes, for about, oh, the rest of your life. :D

    Just trying to put it in perspective, fuel costs are only a tiny fraction of your overall ownership costs. In this case it doesn't even put a dent on the difference it would cost to acquire the preciously priced BMW.

    A3 is nice but it's very small, it's a real fancy Golf basically. With Quattro price breaks $30 grand, and that's just too much for a compact hatchback in my book.

    IS350 is auto only, the bums. IS250 might be a good alternative, but it probably won't be as quick or sporty.

    Subaru ought to have a Legacy Spec B soon, that'll address the handling you're not happy with, but not the mileage. It carries a small price advantage over the MS6.

    GTI, if it ever gets here, looks OK. VW service and reliability leave me cold, though.

    S2000? Why not the MX-5, then? It's nearly as quick and a lot cheaper.

    I just find it funny that given the decidedly non-economical price of some of your candidates, fuel economy is such a concern. Reminds me of the early Infiniti QX56 buyers that were asking if it would be OK to use regular fuel in their $50 grand truck because they didn't want to ante up for the premuim stuff. :D

    -juice
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    Yeah, I was not impressed with the 06 gli. I preferred the handling of my old 03 protege ES to it by a long shot. The gli felt spongy, soft and overmatched in corners. understeer was insane.

    strangely the lower a3 felt more planted and ready to roll.

    Part of why the Mz6 has my eye...i love how mazdas handle. the mazda dna, imho, is the closest thing to bmws out there. Point a mazda and it goes...handling and communication to the driver seem more important to mazda than most makes.
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    My concern about fuel has nothing to do with cost. As cars are toys I'm trying to find a toy that fits my conscience. I already feel guity for not buying a civic hybrid (afterall I don't need anything else). 30 mpg for freeway use helps me believe i'm being a totally selfish jerk (though I am).

    330i with the features I want - leather, paint, sport package is 41k msrp. ED it's 36k with dealer profit. Mot sure where you got 46k but that'd be a car packed with useless stuff like active cruise, automatic, premium package, active steering. For 3k more than a mazdaspeed6 I'm not gonna blink.

    by the way, the a3's not small inside. not as roomy as a mazda3 but it's got more than enough room inside for just me. and that engine...my god if they put the 2.0T in the mazda3, it's be a no brainer buy.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I went to test drive an A3 and the dealer said it had been wrecked while on a test drive, it was wild. I've wanted to try the 2.0FSI engine and the SMG for that matter.

    I sat in one and it felt small to me, though. I could not "sit behind myself", after adjusting the front seat my knees would hit the seat when I went to the back seat. To be honest price was a bigger issue for me, once you got SMG and Quattro it was into the 30s, for that size/type of vehicle my price cap would be around 25.

    What about a Honda Accord hybrid? You could bolt-on a better suspension for it and sort of have what you want. Auto only, though, also a bit heavy. They'll also have a V6/6MT sedan for '06, again just do the suspension work.

    Mazda3s is already fun, even the 3i is fun. I forget who looked at 10 efficient vehicles, but they found the 3i was the most fun on that list.

    I see what you mean about using up resources, but also consider that more resources are used up to build a $41k car than are used to make a Mazda3. By that I mean the amount of energy and raw materials, those count too.

    In fact some say hybrid batteires take up so much energy to produce that they neglect a lot of the energy savings overall. A lot of coal is burned to manufacture those batteries.

    Ride a bike! :D

    -juice
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    The 3s is a fun car. Just extremely slow for my tastes.

    The Mazdaspeed6 answers one of my big complaints about the Mada6 - lack of power.

    We'll see. I would honestly prefer to end up in a Mazda. i miss my protege. :(

    Accord Hybrid is a sedan only and to be honest, I'd have a really, really tough time knowing I owned a Honda Accord. I'm not much of a badge person but there's something about Accord/Civic that makes me want to throw up. They're so banal and domesticated.

    I'd rather another Mazda or Nissan (why don't they make any small rwd cars any more like the glorious 240sx?). Owning a mazda or toyota...it'd be tough.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Those were fun, but not particularly fast. A 3s has gotta be quicker. I guess you want to move up but maintain that same feel?

    Accord makes me yawn at time, but that can make it a good sleeper.

    I really like the G35 coupe, more so than the sedan. 06s are supposed to get a nicer interior as well.

    -juice
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    It's that mazda dna. The pro was slow but so tossable and tough that I grew to love it. Lousy freeway car but fun around town and in the hills.

    I'd enjoy a Mazda6/3 for around town and backroads, I'm sure. But I'd always itch for more power. Thus the Mazdaspeed is on my radar. Just wish it was also designed to seamlessly switch from backroad burner to freeway long distance cruiser...ala what I'm used to.

    A3 to me is the Mazda3 in a smaller, more upscale package with a fanstastic engine and a trippy tranny. Good gas mileage too and all for under 30k. $500 chip and the thing'll put down 250 hp/275 ft-lbs of torque.
  • kronogoosekronogoose Member Posts: 116
    Juice, I know this is the Speed6 forum, but I have to ask: is the Honda Accord with v6 and manual "official" for 2006? Wouldn't that be a de-contented and larger version of the TSX? With more horsepower?

    I've never driven a turbocharged engine, and I hope to for my next purchase, but I like the idea of having a naturally aspirated engine.

    And, Mr. Blueguy, I follow your posts with great interest since I'm looking at some of the vehicles you are considering. I drive a Pro5 and have loved it. Have you considered the WRX or WRX STi? Or are they out because of the MPG?

    I don't like the idea of driving an Accord, either (they're practically ubiquitous and I want something a little less common), but if I could get a Honda v6 and tranny, well, I'd give that a test drive.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I guess you're looking for a twin personality, and you're mostly getting only half of that.

    The other 6 models are lighter, guess it's the Haldex system. Wonder if the turbo 2.3l is heavier than the V6?

    The Accord V6/6MT is official, I even saw a price list (though I forget the exact price).

    WRX is probably not upscale enough for him inside, though it offers great bang for the buck. And the new 2.5l won't be very fuel efficient, either.

    -juice
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    Yeah the Honda Accord sedan and coupe can both be purchased with a six speed in 06. It's a fine tranny and a great engine. the accord coupe is basically an updated version of the old acura legend...real smooth and luxurious.

    WRX is a little too boy-racer econobox for me. fun, easily modded car but way too rough around the edges.
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Member Posts: 1,230
    is the Honda Accord with v6 and manual "official" for 2006?

    The Accord Coupe, and now the Sedan, are both available with V6 and 6-speed manual for '06. 245 HP, I might add... The US Accord is bigger than the Acura TSX, which serves as the Accord in other markets.

    Okay, back on topic. Blueguy, I wouldn't take Mazda's word for EPA figures just yet. Since they changed the ratios, the EPA needed to retest the MS6, and they haven't updated the site showing the revised MPG figures yet. Notice that the website still shows the old gear ratios as well. Mazdausa is notoriously slow in updating their website...

    AFAIC, BMW can't touch this for the price, and I still wouldn't buy a Bimmer if the price was 3 grand CHEAPER. I'd spend that much in repair costs within a few years. BMW USED to be the Ultimate Driving Machine, IMO. Now the competition is too fierce...
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The '06 gets the 2.5l engine with less lag, but that could be a bad thing because mpgs are down.

    It supposedly got more sound insulation, but it still is about bang-for-the-buck, not luxury or comfort.

    -juice
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I also suspect the web site figures are wrong. Marketing lags way behind to update these last minute changes. I bet it will be 19/28, not 20/26. That might be better for you if you have trips in mind.

    -juice
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    AFAIC, BMW can't touch this for the price, and I still wouldn't buy a Bimmer if the price was 3 grand CHEAPER. I'd spend that much in repair costs within a few years. BMW USED to be the Ultimate Driving Machine, IMO. Now the competition is too fierce...

    don't want this to go to something else. but repairs are free on bimmers for 4 years/50k miles. I have paid $0 on maintenance on my 330i (save for tires).

    I love Mazdas. They're basically the only other manu that makes cars that allow me to feel the road. The rest of the competition out there...isn't any competition.

    Heck, I enjoy driving my sister's Tribute even. Something about Mazda...
  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    19/28 would not be horrific. I could live with that probably.
  • mz6greyghostmz6greyghost Member Posts: 1,230
    Something about Mazda...

    'Nuff said. :shades:
  • breldbreld Member Posts: 6,931
    Nice to see the activity in this forum pick up.

    Am I the only one who thinks there is good potential for deep discounts on these within a year? I know it may not be a fair comparison, but obviously the "base" 6 has perpetual incentives, and the previous Mazdaspeed vehicles did not command MSRP for too long, did they?

    There is certainly a lot of pent up demand for the MS6 at this point, and the first allotment will be at MSRP and perhaps above, but after that? Thinking from a "general buying public" perspective (as opposed to a car enthusiast's), the manual trannie limits the appeal immediately, and at $30k plus, Joe and Jane public will certainly start thinking Audi, Acura, BMW, Infiniti, etc.

    And then there's the Legacy GT. At around $27k "real-world" price, it offers, to me, a very similar experience (without having driven the MS6), minus the extra gear.

    I am by no means suggesting the MS6 is not worth the price. I'm just hoping that I could potentially pick one of these up in a year for $27-$28k.

    If it were a hatch, I would have my name on a list somewhere already.

    2024 Audi Q8 e-tron - 2017 911 C4S - 2025 BRZ - 2023 A6 Allroad - 2024 Genesis GV60 - 2019 Cayman

  • audia8qaudia8q Member Posts: 3,138
    I'm just hoping that I could potentially pick one of these up in a year for $27-$28k.

    MSRP for the MZ6Speed sport is $28,555......your there.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Perhaps. Mazda will likely limit production to prevent that.

    But..their version of the Miata didn't do so well, in fact someone reported paying in the $18k range for a new one, and at that price Mazda was probably losing money.

    -juice
  • breldbreld Member Posts: 6,931
    Yeah - I'm thinking the GT w/sunroof for $27-$28k.

    Again, could be wishful thinking. We'll see.

    2024 Audi Q8 e-tron - 2017 911 C4S - 2025 BRZ - 2023 A6 Allroad - 2024 Genesis GV60 - 2019 Cayman

  • blueguydotcomblueguydotcom Member Posts: 6,249
    As it's a mazda I sort of expect to pay at least 2k below MSRP. Color me jaded.

    If the 0-60 time is 6 seconds with the new gearing, then I'm quite interested as I enjoyed everything but the engine in the v6 5 speed Mazda6. Good seating position, low ride height, comfy driver's seat, nice mazda handling.

    Of course if BMW announces the rumored 335i (biturbo 340 hp) before May of 06, I have a feeling Bavaria will be calling loudest...even if it starts at 40k.
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