MAZDASPEED Mazda6

Kirstie_H

Let's keep that conversation in our members meet up discussion!

bradkurtz

Will this car be able to compete with the Charger and SRT8 Magnum coming out, and the Ford GT500 with 450-500HP less than 10K more expensive?

lexusrocks

Here is a comparison test featuring the Mazda6 against other sport sedans. I did not include the Dodge Charger SRT8 as it is too powerful to compete.

Mazdaspeed 6
Nissan Maxima
Pontiac Grand Prix GXP
Dodge Charger HEMI
Acura TSX/TL

What do you think? If I missed anything, tell me.

groovypippin

Someone looking at a Dodge Charger HEMI is not going to be cross-shopping a turbo-charged four cylinder Japanese sports sedan.

About the only car I can think of that would be worth testing aginst the Mazdaspeed6 is the Subaru Legacy AWD. Perhaps some of the entry level German sedans as well.

ateixeira

GT500 is a cramped coupe with rear drive. We're talking practical AWD sedan here. Apple and orange, all the way.

Met Carroll Shelby, BTW, and got his autograph. Really. :-)

Magnum isn't as popular as the 300C.

I think a closer competitor is the Subaru Legacy GT - AWD, turbo 4 sedan. Or on the other extreme EVO, R32, and STi. Though the R32 is gone, and used ones command nearly full price when new.

-juice

stickguy

Other than the Sube Legacy, probably some of hte volvo (S40 or S60) AWD varients, and the Audi A4.

Not all exactly the same niche, but should probably appeal to the same buyer. I don't consider the WRX and Evo comparable.

audia8q

Looks like there is going to be a delay in the MazdaSpeed6. Got word from mazda today to expect the car in September or October. Nothing specific as to why.

ateixeira

Bummer. I guess they will incorporate the changes for the base Mazda6 for next year? The dark light inserts and the darker interior trim?

-juice

navigator89

Here is a comparison test idea featuring the Mazdaspeed 6.

Midsize Sport Sedans

Mazdaspeed 6
Pontiac Grand Prix GXP
Chevrolet Impala SS
Nissan Maxima
Subaru Legacy
Dodge Charger

How about it, edmunds?

ateixeira

I like the idea, but the Maxima is bigger, Altima SE might be better suited.

Impala is huge, also, maybe a Malibu SS?

Charger is also bigger but what other Dodge could they use?

Also might want to toss in an Acura TSX.

-juice

navigator89

I forgot to mention the Acura TSX, but yes that is a very good car to throw in the comparison test.

As for the Altima, it was already included in the 2004 Family Sedan Comparison Test. It placed a respectable 4th. The Maxima hasn't been in any comparison test, and it's a better sports sedan than the Altima so that is why I chose it.

Speaking of size, there is really no discrepancy. The Altima is 192.5 in. long, the Maxima is 193.5 in. long. One inch makes no difference in size.

If the Chevrolet Malibu SS was included I can guarantee you that it would place dead last. The new V8 Impala SS actually has a chance of beating some other car(s). The Malibu has around 240hp, most of the other cars have over 250.

Here are horsepower ratings.

Mazdaspeed 6 - 274
Pontiac Grand Prix GXP - 290
Chevrolet Impala SS - 303
Nissan Maxima - 265
Subaru Legacy - 250
Dodge Charger - 340
Acura TSX - 200

Chevrolet Malibu - 240hp,

autonomous

I forgot to mention the Acura TSX, but yes that is a very good car to throw in the comparison test.

Considering the HP you're comparing, shouldn't it be the Acura TL or even better the Acura RL. The TSX is closer to the Acura RSX which to me seems like a spiced up Honda Civic SI.

navigator89

Acura RL? You're joking right? The RL has 300 hp and is priced close to 50K! Like I said, you're joking, right? Look at the price discrepancy. All the cars mentioned are between 25-35K, and you want to thrown in an Acura RL? In case you didn't know, the RL competes with the Infniti M45, BMW 5 Series, Lexus GS300, the Audi A6, and the Cadillac STS, and the Mercedes Benz E350.

As for the TL, I think it competes with things like the Mercedes C350, BMW 330i, Cadillac CTS, Lincoln Zephyr, Audi A4 etc. Those are luxury sport sedans, and the TL is priced more in line with them. I had already suggested a comparison test featuring these cars.

Just because the engine has 200hp doesn't mean the car won't do well. The TSX has good build quality, good value and handles like a sport sedan. It could probably beat both domestics right there.

ateixeira

we'll have to conduct several tests.

It all depends upon your perspective. I tend to class things by size. Some class things by power. Others by price.

-juice

navigator89

I group things based mostly on price. When a comparison test is conducted, the objective is to inform the buyer what is the best vehicle in that price range, and how it stacks up against the rest. Comparison tests are usually done with cars of similar pricing, and then similar power and size.

You can't really compare cars by size, not accurately. Just because two cars are the same size doesn't mean that they should be compared against each other.

ateixeira

You just revealed BMW's secret formula.

They get car mags to compare their compact 3 series with the mid-size sedans from competitors. The 3 is always lighter so it carries a big advantage. Passenger space is only given very little weight so the Bimmer generally wins.

Did you know a Ford Focus wagon has more interior room than a 5 series wagon?

-juice

autonomous

Hmm, you said: Here are horsepower ratings.
Mazdaspeed 6 - 274 Pontiac Grand Prix GXP - 290 Chevrolet Impala SS - 303 ...

and then you said: Acura RL? You're joking right? The RL has 300 hp and is priced close to 50K!

So if I understand you correctly you think it would be better to match up a car with 200 hp (like the Acura TSX) against the ones listed above?

If price is a factor in addition to HP, shouldn't you list those as well? BTW is the Mazdazpeed 6 and the Impala SS closer in price to the Acura TSX or to the Acura TL?

autonomous

It looks like the 270 horsepower of the Acura TL is a better match to the 276 hp of the Mazdaspeed 6. The TL is pricier than, but in the range of, the Mazdaspeed 6. The Acura TSX is cheaper but its vastly different horsepower (200 hp) seems to put it out of the race.

In any case, we can only dream that any of these would be in our garage!

p.s. navigator89, you're right that the RL is a completely different league, but some of our dreams are in color :P

audia8q

maybe I'm nuts but shouldn't the comparisons be against cars with all wheel drive and a manual trans??

ateixeira

Depends on when/where they conduct it. They don't seem to be timing the launch in winter, where AWD comparos would be best.

That would limit competitors to the Legacy GT, AWD Magnum Hemi, RL if you stretch up, or EVO and STi if you allow those rally cars.

-juice

audia8q

A winter launch wasnt part of the plan but mid to late fall looks like the US launch time at this point......so, I suspect winter may pop up in the discussion. of course, those who have enough brains to live where there is no snow can disregard the winter launch concerns.

mazda6s

How about those who live where there is snow but it usually melts by noon? :shades:

navigator89

response to post 269

Do you want to know why I decided to have the Acura TSX in the comparison test? Because it is a sports sedan that is priced closer to vehicles like the Dodge Charger, Pontiac Grand Prix, Chevrolet Impala. The TL does have more horsepower, but it is better suited to competing with the Audi A4, BMW 3 Series, Cadillac CTS.

Yes, the Acura TSX has the lowest horsepower, but there are other areas where it may beat it's more powerful competitors. Doesn't build quality, value and options also play a part when deciding what the best sports sedan is?

Say what you wish, but the TSX is a better fit for the cars I mentioned. After all, who else does it compete with?

These are the cars I suggested for a comparison test, for those who care

Sports Sedans

Mazdaspeed 6
Dodge Charger
Chevrolet Impala SS
Nissan Maxima
Pontiac Grand Prix
Subaru Legacy
Acura TSX

kronogoose

I don't know about the rest of you, but I've been pretty disappointed in the lack of information about the MS6. It was a complete let-down to have the release of the MS6 put off until fall, but apparently, Mazda's had it's issues in getting the vehicle to market.

Whining aside, I received an email from Mazda about a week ago inviting me to "build" my MS6 on their website. I was happy to read that it should be available in the fall of 2005.

While I'm waiting for the MS6 to get here, I've added a competitor for my next car purchase. Now, I realize that I'm comparing apples to oranges here, but to me, this car is relevant: the Mazdaspeed3. Yes, it's a compact where the MS6 is a midsize, and it will have less power as well. It probably won't have AWD like the MS6, either. But it is a performance oriented vehicle from one of my favorite automakers, and the price should be about $5,000 less! Given my preference for compact-sized vehicles (I currently drive a Protege5), I will have to give both cars a test drive before making a decision.

Any thoughts?

ateixeira

The 3 has one features the 6 will not have: lightness.

It's why a Miata is more than than a Tribute, even when the Tribute has a lot more power.

Definitely sample both.

-juice

harbachj

I agree that competitors are AWD vehicles. The EVO and STi are definitely going to be on the same shopping list as the Mazda. If a "mature" AWD performance vehicle is what you are looking for, the Saab 9-2X Aero is a possibility. Yes it's a wagon (but really more of a hatchback) and "only" 227 HP (but with many WRX mods out there, easily bumped up to 260-280). With current rebates and GM pricing, an Aero starts at under $20K!

Jim

ateixeira

They should re-think that, and here's why.

If it's FWD, it will be compared to the SRT-4 and Ion Redline, plus the Cobalt SS. Price cap would be about $22k for it to be competitive. And even at that price it would have to be loaded.

If it's AWD, it will be grouped with the STi, EVO, and R32. They could go up to $30k potentially, depending upon equipment.

From a pure marketing standpoint, which group would you rather be in?

Of course they may attack both segments with the two models they're producing.

-juice

ambull

Like you said, I'd rather be in both markets. The $22k's are going to sell more. Besides, the Evo and STi are already established as near-supercars. Hard to beat those first time out. Much easier to beat Cobalt and the older SRT-4. The MS3 should be competitive with those. Can't wait to try it.

wayde

or thoughts?
mazdas site says available "late summer" now... hmmm. also has firm pricing and let's you build it. and then makes you wait.
anyone heard anything from their dealer regarding 06 launch times?

kronogoose

There is an awesome new video clip at the MazdaUSA site entitled "Track Video." Some guy named Randy (should I know who that is?) is putting the Mazdaspeed6...apparently, the Mazdaspeed6 for NA...through its paces on a racetrack, with a Mazda fan in the passenger seat. Check out the guy in the orange/yellow shirt hanging on for dear life!

Click here for link to MazdaUSA

ambull

That guy was Randy Pobst, who drives one of Tri-Point Motorsports' MAZDA6 racecars in the SCCA SPEED World Challenge Touring Car series. He was the 2003 GT-class champion, driving a Porsche 911.

The guy in the orange/yellow shirt was hilarious. Like you said, he was holding on for dear life, but when it was over, he said the ride was really smooth. What a wus.

ambull

That guy Randy Pobst just finished second behind a BMW at Lime Rock in the SCCA Speed World Challenge Touring Car race. He's one heckuva driver.

Hope the car is as good as he is!

mazda6s

Read about it here:
http://www.scca.com/index.asp

ateixeira

You could see him heel-n-toe in that one shot. Plus he controlled the oversteer nicely with the AWD pulling him out of the skid. WOOT!

-juice

autonomous

In case you missed this article about the Mazdaspeed6 go to
http://www.japanesecarfans.com/news.cfm/newsid/2050623.003/mazda/1.html

In the article it mentions the fact that this 276hp turbo is eco-friendly
Mazdaspeed Atenza also meets "Green Tax" standards, Japan's tax reduction regulations for eco-friendly vehicles. Certified as a Super Ultra-Low Emissions Vehicle (SU-LEV) that complies with Japan's 2005 emissions reduction standard of 75 percent, when purchasing an Mazdaspeed Atenza the owner can receive a reduction in the vehicle excise tax because it is also certified as exceeding the 2010 fuel economy standard by five percent.

ateixeira

I think here in the US PZEVs get some sort of breaks, but not SULEVs.

-juice

kronogoose

Does anyone have any actual numbers on how many MZSPD6 models have been pre-ordered?

I got my oil changed at a Mazda dealer a couple of days ago, and the service tech there said that almost all of the Speed6 models had been pre-ordered by Mazda employees. For that reason (according to the tech), Mazda decided to add the Speed6 to the model line up instead of selling it as a limited-edition.

In an Edmunds Mazda forum, I read that most of the Speed6 models have been pre-ordered by buyers new to the Mazda brand.

Needless to say, I am a bit confused, and I'm curious to know exactly how many Speed6's have been pre-ordered. Will there be any left for those of us who want a test drive first? :confuse:

The other thing the service tech said was that they haven't announced when the Speed3 version will come out. I thought I read on triplezoom that Mazda would being selling it in Jan 2006. Am I missing something?

autonomous

The Mazdaspeed3 is scheduled for display in the Frankfurt Autoshow this September.
Edmunds is listing its production as a 2007 vehicle that is due "summer 2006"; see http://www.edmunds.com/future/2007/mazda/mazdaspeedmazda3/100543666/preview.html

ateixeira

Good luck...that's going to be hard to come by. To even find one in a showroom, at least for the first few months.

-juice

typhoon33

Its going to have the same motor as the MS6 - Cayenne for the average man. AT only though

kronogoose

Summer's almost over. Any news on the Speed6?

mz6greyghost

Rumor has it for October/November release.

Of course, a certain allotment is allowed for each dealer, and of course, about 90% are "sold" already...

kronogoose

I've been wondering about those pre-sold numbers. Is that from Mazda, or is it just a rumor?

- Greg

mz6greyghost

The pre-sold numbers are what I've heard from people asking salespeople at the Mazda dealers themselves.

"Yeah, we're expecting our first shipment of 5 of them, and 4 are sold already..." "We're getting two, and they're sold..." blah blah blah...

They might be full of it, just to sell more of them sooner, but who knows?

So yeah, you can consider it a rumor...

mazda6s

Yeah, and what exactly does "sold" mean. Does that mean they have a signed sales contract (with VIN), or they have a deposit on a particular car, or they just have someone's name on it?

gee35coupe

Those big intakes on the front bumper look cartoonish.

audia8q

Pre-sale.....Here is how we are handling it. The consumer gives us a deposit and I will put their name on a specific car than has been allocated to us. The buyers order is filled out and signed. When the car arrives the consumer will have the chance to take a test drive. If for some reason they don't like the car they can cancel the order for a full refund of the deposit.

xplorx4

I guess with a pre-sale, the customer pays MSRP then? (Probably not much negotiating on price, huh?)

Kirstie_H

A reporter is hoping to hear from residents of Southeast Michigan who fit either of the following descriptions:
- feel as if the cost of gasoline is significantly driving up their commuting costs (no pun intended)
- have been impressed with their vehicles' gas mileage

Please respond to jfallon@edmunds.com no later than Thursday, August 25, 2005 with your daytime contact info, year/make/model of vehicle, city of residence and city of employment.

Thanks for your consideration,
Jeannine Fallon
Corporate Communications
Edmunds.com

mazda6s

OK, save one for me.