MAZDASPEED Mazda6

qbrozen

ah. nice. yeah, thanks for the updates. I now went to the mazdausa sight and see they do have those numbers up there (but they do say "projected estimates" in the fine print) as well as some nice pics.

midwesttrader

Thanks for the info Rich. Can't make any moves right now, but 2/05 is a possibility.

gee35coupe

Looks like I may have found my next car. Can't wait til they hit the ground. My 05 Christmas will be glorious.

audia8q

oh come on....you know you'll find something wrong with it.

gee35coupe

In fact, I gave the 6 rave reviews when I first drove it. I love the 6.

qbrozen

huh? i thought the mazda6 already had a moonroof??

just checked. edmunds says moonroof/audio package $1300.

stickguy

the regular model has a moonroof option. The rumor here was that the Speed version wouldn't have one.

I'm with Gee that my ears perked back up. I think the projected price might make them perk back down.

Now, stick that drivetrain in an AWD 3 hatch with the roof, price it at 25K, and I'll be in with a check tomorrow.

audia8q

Plz claify something in your post....Do you feel the price point on the speed6 is too high? I kinda thought the price was pretty good. I was actually expecting it to come in higher.

gee35coupe

We'll give it a few months production to work out the glitches.

stickguy

I saw 31k+ for a car with a moonroof, and that seemed high to me for a 6. The competition gets stiff when you are up into the 30s, plus the specter of some heavy depreciation. An Acura Tl 6 speed is what, 32K?

Of course, if the experience is all there, the price could be forgiven, especially if it is loaded, at least as well as a Sube GT.

I just happen to like hatch backs, lighter weight is good, and I'm cheap, so the 3 hatch for mid-20s just sounded nice.

gee35coupe

the 4wd, turbo 270hp, leather, above average interior, awesome driving position, and one of the lower cowls left in existence.

I'm all over a MS6. I just hope the "competition" gets the selling price in the 27-28K range for a loaded one by next year.

Make mine silver or white thank you..

ateixeira

TL doesn't have the sporty character, so I don't think it can be compared directly.

Plus, aren't those more like $33k MSRP?

The MS6 is priced higher than a Legacy GT, but it has a bit more power and torque and 18" rims as well. There is also Nav available (Legacy may get it later).

So if you think the MS6 is too pricey try a Legacy GT. If that's too pricey try a 6s.

Nice to have choices.

-juice

groovypippin

I think a lot of people are going to be quite surprised by the overall performance of the Mazdaspeed 6, especially in the handling department.

I may, of course, be blowing smoke out my butt, but I think these comparisons to the Acura TL, even the Legacy GT are going to look silly when we get a look at the numbers from the MS6.

The only direct competitor that really sticks in my mind is the Infiniti G35 AWD. Does that come with a standard transmission?

awd888

Hi,
I probably should go ask a dealer but, do you know if/when automatic transmission will be out, specs ##, and $$?

audia8q

The MazdaSpeed6 will not be available with an Auto Trans.

ateixeira

G35x is automatic only. That rules it out as a direct competitor.

Seems like the MS6 will be half way between a Legacy GT and a WRX STi/EVO VIII.

In other words, it's a specialty tuner car, just a bit bigger than the STi and EVO.

-juice

boomn29

I was told like 2-3 months ago (by a local tuner) to keep my eye out for the next Mazda. At the time he called it the MPZ or something - but it's this.
He said it's going to be a tuner's dream and that it'll be delieverd severly de-tuned. Any accuracy to that ya think? Any idea how much boost it'll push stock?

cronos6

Will the Mazdaspeed6 be made at AutoAlliance or Japan? So I guess HID light will not be an option at all then.

test

test

the_big_h

Mazdaspeed6, being a low volume specialty car that will be sold worldwide, will ALL be built in Japan, and HID will be standard equipment. Navigation system will be an available option as well.

boomn29

If I could get a high hp AWD car that is easily modded .....and.... have a degree of luxury - I'd be set.

Navigation is moving towards luxury options IMO. Neato. Wonder what the decked out tag will be then? That's the problem with the G35Coupe, once you add options it jumps to $39k. Once you add options to the new Vette; it jumps to $53k.

the_big_h

base trim mazdaspeed6 (w/o leather and nav) will start around 29k

loaded mazdaspeed6 tops out at 31k.

the_big_h

audia8q Nov 4, 2004 10:57am

ateixeira

31k for the Grand Touring but add more for Nav and a moonroof, so I think it'll top out more like $34k or so.

Still, compare to european cars that offer that level of performance, and it's a bargain.

-juice

boomn29

I'm more interested in the tuneability of it! Guess we'll have to wait until the aftermarket people get them.

ateixeira

That 2.3l is pretty tuned already, in fact I'd argue MazdaSpeed is indeed an in-house tuner.

So I wouldn't expect it to be able to go too much further without trading off some durability.

-juice

Kirstie_H

A newspaper reporter is looking for vehicle shoppers and recent buyers age 20-29 who live in either the Atlanta or Raleigh-Durham area. If you're willing to talk about your vehicle preferences and shopping experience, please send an e-mail to jfallon@edmunds.com with your age, location, and contact info by December 13, 2004. Thanks!

boomn29

Well, with any tuning, you stand to lose a degree of durability, reliability, logetivity or streetability. That's just a tradeoff you have to live with if you decide to go down that path.

If Mazda wants to compete in the Evo/Sti market, then they have to realize the huge aftermarkets for these cars. It's amazing how many people are running Evo's in the 11's and driving them everyday to work. STi's are a bit harder to tune, but definitely a huge market there too.

ateixeira

STi has an alloy block, may be why. EVO's is cast iron. Alloy is lighter but iron can handle more stress.

What about the 2.3l from Mazda? Is that iron or alloy?

-juice

the_big_h

is an all-aluminum engine, no old school cast iron block here!

ateixeira

Dunno if I'd want to tune it any more than what MazdaSpeed does. You might be flirting with disaster.

-juice

boomn29

If I can't add stuff to it, it'll be marked off my list...

What's the fun of getting a 13second car if you can't make it any faster? I'm assuming it'll be in the 13's with 276hp that is.

ateixeira

Should be, probably easily.

C&D managed a 13.8 with a Forester XT, and that's gotta be heavier. It's a 2.5T with a claimed 210hp but 235 lb-ft.

But dyno runs put that engine at 240-250hp and 265 lb-ft at the crank.

So 276 should easily put a (lighter?) sedan ahead of that XT. Depends on gearing I guess.

-juice

corvette

>>>What's the fun of getting a 13second car... <<<

The obvious answer being, it's faster than 99% of the sedans out there in its price range...

boomn29

>>>The obvious answer being, it's faster than 99% of the sedans out there in its price range... <<<

I wouldn't say 99%. What about the Evo and STi it's going against? Definitely slower. I'd say faster than 'a majority', but still.

audia8q

Did I hear correctly that that mitsu does not warranty the EVO tranny??? Thats what the Rep at the car show said this past weekend.

ateixeira

Not exactly. Mitsu has said they would not cover affected parts if your EVO is raced competitively. So that might include the tranny and clutch, in that situation.

I doubt Mazda or Subaru are any different. You gotta pay to play.

If you're bracket racing and you dump the clutch over and over, it is fair to expect Mitsu to pay for a new one?

It's controversial, but I can understand why they do it.

-juice

kronogoose

Hi all, I'm new to this forum. I've been reading as much as I can about the MSP6, and I can't wait for the car to hit showrooms.

Does anyone know if this model will be added to Mazda's model line up for some time, or is it a limited production car? Will it go the way of the Mazdaspeed Protege?

Is there any risk of a horsepower/torque faux pas, like the one that happened with the RX-8? I seem to recall that initial advertising stated the 8 would have 250 hp, but after it hit the US, it only had 238 hp. Depending on which car show report you read, I've seen estimates on the MSP6 ranging from 256 hp on up to 280 hp.

Anyone else worried about the new technology being introduced (at least in the US), like the MZR engine and the AWD? Is it really front-wheel drive biased?

The MSP6 is definitely on my wish list along with the Subaru GT. The GT appeals to me because Subaru's AWD system has been around awhile, they've been turbocharging engines for some time now, and I can get a base model for around $26K. Any thoughts?

nedc2

Don't worry too much about the "new" technology--the Mazda 6 in Europe has had an AWD system for a couple of years, available with a normally aspirated 2.3 L 4 cyl., the largest engine available in Europe on that car. Mazda has been turbo-charging engines for years, including the RX-7, Miata, etc. and the old Millenia was supercharged, so they've had plenty of experience with that too.

As far as the disparity in horsepower numbers, might be due to different measurements, IIRC they use a different standard in Europe.

ateixeira

Isn't it the Haldex system used on some Volvos? If so, that's been around for a year or two now. I drove an S60 with it and liked it.

I still prefer permanent systems, however. But the Haldex is very fast-acting.

The RX8 and the Miata, too, were overstated. They claimed 155hp for the Miata, but it made just 143hp. That's nearly 10% off, pretty significant IMO.

So you never know. Mazda did step up and offer to buy back the cars, or get some perks for keeping it.

-juice

boomn29

RX-8 was just aweful IMO. The hp numbers were way off, as well as the EPA estimates.

I hope the MP6 is more realistic in it's estimates.

dewey

A Mazdaspeed 6 wagon. Now that would provide some interesting competition to the Subaru Legacy GT Wagon.

I hope the Mazda people are listning!

ateixeira

Competition improves the breed. Bring it on.

I hope supply is good so that Subaru feels some pricing pressure, though the MS6 will be priced higher.

-juice

audia8q

Don't forget...they overstated the HP on the RX8 due to the emission changes but the actual performance numbers like 0-60 never changed....so the HP reduction didnt really do anything except bruise some HP ego's. Hopefully they won't make that mistake on any other cars.

We are seeing a few people a week looking for the MZ6Speed info...This should be a big winner for Mazda.

dewey

I dont know what the pricing will be in the USA. But,

I read the pricing of the MS6 in Canadian $ should be 38-39k. The Legacy GT is about 37k Cdn$

Pricing difference between the two could be quite trivial.

ateixeira

There was some info earlier in this thread, I think in the US we'll see a few grand seperating the two.

Better still, I think Mazda puts the pressure on Subaru to offer an STi model, or at least a Sport package with a tighter suspension.

-juice

kronogoose

Did anybody else get the email from Mazda about the MS6? It says, "Horsepower and torque numbers are provisional targets." I guess we won't know for sure until a few of these are sold. I'm hoping that, in the least, the final numbers are more than the GT's 250HP/250lbs.

There's a cool little movie that explains a bit about how the engine and AWD system work. Here's the website:

http://www.mazdausa.com/MusaWeb/displayPage.action?pageParameter=- mazdaSpeed6

ateixeira

Maybe they are being careful because of what happened in the past.

First turbo DI, interesting. DI has been around for a while, I think Isuzu pioneered it for gas engines. Diesels have had it forever.

-juice

stickguy

This thing is really pushing my buttons. I knew that as soon as I bought something, the one I really wanted would show up. Hope they really do offer a moonroof (as Audi stated), since none of the gallery pictures show one.

Wonder if I can somehow convince the wife that she doesn't need the new Odyssey she ordered? Not sure the budget can handle 2 pricey cars in the same year!

Maybe something to look forward to in 2006.

ateixeira

It'll always be like that, competition improves the breed and cars keep getting better.

Unfortunately prices have crept up too, I think the average car costs $27 grand now.

-juice