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Comments
A client comes in and says I want an Avy XLS but I want it at $30000... Can I show you an XLE V6 Camry with Navi for $31000, same engine, same style, slightly smaller but quicker and the Navi for free? Now the buyer has two good choices...
This is one reason why Toyota's marketing is so astute. Put the two next to each other and see that they look nearly identical but the Avy has nicer appointments and the Camry has nicer features. There is good solid 'coherence' throughout the Toyota lineup from the Yaris on up. One trim level supports the one above it.
No doubt, some will take the $29.9K Accord EX V6 vs. the Camry XLE V6 at $31K, but its their call.
~alpha
http://quote.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=10000103&sid=aTkufGZiqHOs&refer=news_in- - dex
Now for performance the V6 with the 6 speed is in a class by itself... add the sport package and the Accord and others are literally left in the dust all during this spring buying season. Nice positioning on the launch.
As I mentioned above this Gen was the V6 and hybrid Gen. The Gen5 was the 2.4L and bigger body Gen.
Detractors will be found everywhere, and who knows maybe there is another agenda present???
I talked with a salesmen about the new Camry yesterday and they expect a BIG majority of sales to be LE models. According to him about 70+ percent of Camrys sold in the SET region will be LE models. Nationwide...he says 60 percent will be LE models. No surprises there.
The guy was EXTREMELY knowledgeable...and he mentioned that in the SET region, the SE will still be VERY limited and they don't expect to sell many of them. He stated that Toyota is essentially using the SE model to lure younger people into the dealership and then try and get them into LE and XLE models with accessories (something the SET region is known for) I frankly believe him because he was pretty much accurate on everything else we talked about. As a matter of fact, his first Camry to arrive will be an LE in Silver with SET accessories..driving the price to over $24K.
I got some great details on the current allocation of models this particular salesman would be getting and I thought long and hard about trading in my Altima for one. I've narrowed my options down to the XLEI4 or SEI4. More than likely the XLE since the SE will be hard to find in my region.
My problem is I want a stick shift..and very few Japanese cars come with them anymore. Try finding an Altima, Camry or Accord stick shift with any options in South Carolina...you'll be disappointed.
The only problem I am having now is deciding if I should wait until April to see the new Altima or just going ahead and getting rid of my Altima right now.
I love that car..but it just hasn't been the same since my accident.
If I lived there, I think I would travel just about any distance to avoid buying a car from these pirates. It's fascinating to go to a pricing website [like Kelley] and try to sort through the real factory options vs the long, invented laundry list of add-ons that the SET people keep coming up with. Give them credit - the free enterprise system taken to its logical extreme....
These are my opinions, and they (nor the scribe for U.S. Today) would obviously impact overall sales, which will be very strong. But the mid size market is too competitive and the envelope has not been pushed as much as it should have been by Toyota. Basically, everyone makes a good mid size car. This may come back to bite Toyota, but only time will tell.
"Anyone who pays over 25k for a Camry needs to get a reality check and visit their local Lexus dealer."
This is telling people willing to pay $31K they're stupid. Do you see the difference?
Try finding a Lexus ES for less than $36K. Betcha can't.
Regarding the four cylinder- again, I expect that Toyota may add Dual VVTi down the line. 158 horses isnt spectacular, but acceleration should be competitive and adequate for the needs of the people who are buying this vehicle. As an FYI, your percentages are off; the 4 cylinders combined are expected to sell 60% of the line Camry line, according to Car and Driver, not just the LE. The Hybrid, I believe is expected at 8%, and the rest, obviously, V6s..
Re: the USA Today review-James Healy, in my opinion, not from only this review but many others.... is less than top notch in caliber. Even reading the USA Today review, it is disjointed and jumps around.
Overall space has shrunk very slightly .3%. When I was in the Camry, I certainly didnt notice it in comparison to my 'rents '02.
I would recommend reserving judgement until you drive the vehicle... I dont think handling will be worse, given the revised suspension and much wider track, coupled with substantially larger tires- 16s vs. 15s, and 215s vs. 205s.
I'm interested to see how the brake pedal feel is, as the Camry with drums was not very impressive, and distances were a bit long for my tastes. The '07 should address this, as they all come with rear discs, and larger swept area.
~alpha
With that said, I think Toyota could have pushed the envelope with the new Camry and in my opinion, from a horspower standpoint of the 4 cylinder, fuel economy, and handling, and even styling, I think they've missed the mark a bit on those issues. With the 4 wheel disc brakes and the added airbags, those are pluses.
As far as Toyota sales, I said that the 4 cylinders now account for 60% to 70% of Camry solds. You are talking about Toyota projections about the 2007s, which are not rooted in actual numbers at this time.
You don't stay on top by pushing the envelope. You stay on top by making non-controversial, incremental improvements.
Remember what happened to the Taurus in 1996 when they pushed the envelope styling-wise? It never recovered.
new, 6 speed automatic. There, they pushed the envelope and made incremental, one could even say dramatic, improvements and are ahead of all other non-luxury brand makes (i.e. Honda, Nissan, etc.)
new, 6 speed automatic. There, they pushed the envelope and made incremental, one could even say dramatic, improvements and are ahead of all other non-luxury brand makes (i.e. Honda, Nissan, etc.)
Maybe they want more people to opt for the V6 engine compare to the previous Gen. Camrys.
Styling is a subjective matter, and I understand your comment on HP and MPG, those are observable on paper, but how do you know what Toyota did or didnt do in terms of handling? I am assuming you havent driven the vehicle..
"As far as Toyota sales, I said that the 4 cylinders now account for 60% to 70% of Camry solds. "
Actually, the direct quote from your prior post was:
"Lets face it the LE -4 is the most popular model with 60% to 70% of sales"
So your claim was that the LE sells 60 to 70%, not all 4s sell 60-70%, which is what I was trying to clarify.
~alpha
I still stand by all comments about the 4 cylinder units with respect to mpg and hp. Styling is up to the buyer. So, we don't really have a disagreement with respect to that issue.
As far as the USA Today article, I take it with a grain of salt. However, I do not know whether he has a bias or agenda as some other posters implied here.
Alpha, do you know whether the hp is lower for PZEV units?
Take Care.
Dang..learn something new everyday.
In discussing with actual buyers about 4c and horsepower, all you get are blank stares. In theory or to a person on these boards this type of comparison means something.
To the majority of the buying public as a whole... it is of less importance than the dot at then end of this sentence. How does it look? What's in it? What's the price? Performance and Camry LE or CE in the same sentence? Nope.
Also as I said in a prior post this is not the year of the 4c. The emphasis this year is on the V6 and the hybrid with a little tweak on the 4c.
Also from what appears to be very valid concerns in your mind... the Camry just may not be the vehilce for you personally. But, having had zero problems since 1989 on 4 different models all with little weak lawnmover engines, this 4c is a comparative rocket!!! I/we ( the typical CE/LE buyer ) have little or no need for a 170 hp 4c.
With regard to the 4, just try it first. The only reason I'm peeved about the 158 horse rating is because the same engine makes 166 in the RAV, and I dont understand what accounts for the difference. I'm guessing it has to do with exhaust/breathing.
Agree about the USA Today article. Personally, I cant stand James Healy.
IIRC, HP is lower for PZEV '07 Camrys. I believe its like 153 SAE.
~alpha
LE: 60%
XLE: 17%
SE: 10%
Hybrid: 8%
CE: 5%
I don't remember if they gave a breakdown by engine type, but of course all Hybrids and CEs will have the 4-cylinder, and I would expect the vast majority of LEs will be so equipped.
For 2007, the Toyota pressroom site's preliminary specs mention only a 4-way power passenger seat for the XLE. However, a press kit CD that I obtained shows photos of the XLE interior, and one clearly shows the same switches on the '07 XLE's passenger seat that I have on my '05. So I guess we'll have to wait and see which is correct -- the specs or the photos.
But regarding the three other "take-aways," here are my thoughts:
Temporary spare (all models): It's too bad, but Toyota is obviously going with the flow and it's a simple way to keep costs down. I did appreciate, however, having a 5th regular tire on my '97, '04, and '05 Camrys. It's a plus if you puncture one tire (even if repairable) and still have 4 good tires left. The repaired tire can become the permanent spare.
Reclining rear seats (XLE): I think it's a nice touch, and will add an element of luxury to the car. The fold down seat will still be available in the LE and CE for those who prefer utility over luxury. I personally rarely use the fold down feature (but then again I have a Nissan Frontier pickup to carry big loads).
Smaller trunk (all models): Not a plus, but it is a bow to the gods of style (and everyone harped on how bland the 2002-06 model looked). Not me though -- I like the front end of the outgoing model much better than the 2007.
I too would be shocked if the 8-way seat disappeared on the XLE. This is such a nice feature for a top-of-the-line trim that it seems unlikely to drop it. We'll know this week
Temporary spare is a minor inconvenience. I did enjoy having it. Some Corolla buyers are trading their donuts for full sized spares. The well accepts both in the Corolla. OTOH Honda has gotten by forever with only temps. Apparently there isn't enough customer demand to warrant the FSS any longer. On the last Gen when they went to the 'standard' trimline no one but no one screamed about the loss of the FSS.
I have never in 16 years of driving Camry's needed to fold down the back seats.
Each of us will have to test our own requirements regarding the trunk capacity. As in your case your truck serves to do most of the hauling duties. I also think for vacations and long trips many ( most ? ) have either an SUV or minivan that's used because of the massive amounts of storage space. Family sedans aren't the prime vehicle any longer for travelling. Most families have a sedan or two one larger vehicle and maybe a truck.
Others: I tend to agree that the spare should be full-size.
As far as the rear seats, they should fold down on all models and this is a convenience feature to have, but Toyota does not agree. I'm glad thise feature is standard on the LE 4 though. This is why in part I did not purchase the Avalon.
As far as the trunk size, the Camry's trunk was quite large to begin with, especially when compared to an Accord. Any change would be barely noticeable.
2007 Toyota Camry CE
Body: 4DR Base
Color: Super White
Interior: Ash Gray Cloth
Delivered Internet Price: $19,730
Factory Invoice: $18,758
Delivered Value Price: $20,099
MSRP: $20,099
================================================
2007 Toyota Camry LE
Body: 4DR LE Auto
Color: Magnetic Gray
Interior: Ash Gray Cloth
Delivered Internet Price: $20,910
Factory Invoice: $19,442
Delivered Value Price: $21,279
MSRP: $21,279
================================================
2007 Toyota Camry LE V6
Body: 4DR V6 LE
Color: Blue Ribbon
Interior: Ash Gray Cloth
Delivered Internet Price: $24,450
Factory Invoice: $22,392
Delivered Value Price: $24,819
MSRP: $24,819
Features
- CF1
FACTORY INSTALLED OPTIONS
CF1 - CARPET/CARGO MAT SET
DK - OWNERS PORTFOLIO
EJ - AM/FM/CD CHANGER/MP3/BLUETOOTH
FE - 50 STATE EMISSION REQUIREMENT
================================================
2007 Toyota Camry SE
Body: 4DR SE Auto
Color: Magnetic Gray
Interior: Dark Charcoal Cloth
Delivered Internet Price:$25,049
Factory Invoice: $22,726
Delivered Value Price:$25,418
MSRP: $25,418
Features
- AS
FACTORY INSTALLED OPTIONS
AS - 17 INCH ALUMINUM ALLOY WHEELS
CF1 - CARPET/CARGO MAT SET
DK - OWNERS PORTFOLIO
EJ - AM/FM/CD CHANGER/MP3/BLUETOOTH
FE - 50 STATE EMISSION REQUIREMENT
RF - REAR SPOILER
SR - PWR TILT/SLIDE MOONROOF
VS - VEH STABILITY/TRACTION CONTROL
WL - WHEEL LOCKS
================================================
2007 Toyota Camry SE
Body: 4DR SE
Color: Titanium Silver
Interior: Dark Charcoal Leather
Delivered Internet Price: $30,544
Factory Invoice: $27,486
Delivered Value Price: $30,913
MSRP: $30,913
Features
- AS
FACTORY INSTALLED OPTIONS
AS - 17 INCH ALUMINUM ALLOY WHEELS
CF1 - CARPET/CARGO MAT SET
DK - OWNERS PORTFOLIO
FE - 50 STATE EMISSION REQUIREMENT
NV - NAVIGATION SYSTEM
QC - LEATHER PACKAGE W/POWER SEATS
RF - REAR SPOILER
SR - PWR TILT/SLIDE MOONROOF
VS - VEH STABILIY/TRACTION CONTROL
WL - WHEEL LOCKS
================================================
2007 Toyota Camry XLE
Body: 4DR XLE 4SP
Auto Color: Titanium Silver
Interior: Ash Gray Leather
Delivered Internet Price: $27,189
Factory Invoice: $24,758
Delivered Value Price: $27,558
MSRP: $27,558
Features
- DK
FACTORY INSTALLED OPTIONS
DK - OWNERS PORTFOLIO
FE - 50 STATE EMISSION REQUIREMENT
HD - HEATED DRIVER/PASS FRT SEATS
LA - LEATHER PACKAGE W/POWER SEATS
VS - VEH STABILIY/TRACTION CONTROL
Z1 - PREFERRED ACCESSORY PACKAGE
================================================
2007 Toyota Camry XLE V6
Body: 4DR V6 XLE
Color: Titanium Silver
Interior: Ash Gray Leather
Delivered Internet Price: $30,894
Factory Invoice: $28,112
Delivered Value Price: $31,263
MSRP: $31,263
Features
- CF1
FACTORY INSTALLED OPTIONS
CF1 - CARPET/CARGO MAT SET
DK - OWNERS PORTFOLIO
FE - 50 STATE EMISSION REQUIREMENT
HD - HEATED DRIVER/PASS FRT SEATS
NV - NAVIGATION SYSTEM
SK - SMART KEY SYSTEM
V2 - VIP GLASS BREAKAGE SENSOR
VS - VEH STABILIY/TRACTION CONTROL
WL - WHEEL LOCKS
Do one of those terms mean out the door?
:confuse:
Mackabee
This is the new Toyota in action..
It's worked at the Mega stores like Laurel, Darcars, and especially at Longo so this is how they would like the future to be. The problem comes from how to present the vehicles to the public, demo's, walkarounds, etc. There is enough variation in the vehicles that someone has to be able to show the vehicles. It's not quite as simple as picking out 2 blue shirts and 3 white shirts from a catalogue.
If everything were to be done over the internet, then the possibility to show off new models and new features would be lost, unless the sales person ( demo person? ) were paid by the demo not by the sale. But what about those who want to negotiate and discuss details, enjoy the process? Who deals with them? Or does Toyota just brush them off and tell them to go on over to Nissan 'they'll negotiate'.
It's a complex question.. on another forum.
post no 1522 is a wrong information. check the pricing on japanesecarfans.com, they have the pricing with out the options.
The post clearly lists the options involved. There's nothing wrong about it.
On the site you mention it's just a reprint off Toyota's website so yes they are the 'official' Manufacturers' Suggested Retail Prices - Base Prices but nothing more than that.
My post couldn't have been anymore clearer...it says PRICES FROM A DEALERSHIP IN THE WASHINGTON, DC AREA...I didn't say standard nationwide definite pricing for all Camry's. There is nothing "wrong" about those prices at all. I don't think Fitzgerald Auto Mall is trying to deceive people with bogus pricing. Are you ignorant or just a fool? You would have to be extremely dense to not know that the pricing on the 07s are going to fluctuate depending on the market in which you get your vehicle. A person may purchase a fully-loaded XLE V6 in Georgia for only 28-29K and another person may get the same vehicle in California for 3-4K more. It all depends.
So let's get real now and instead of trying to nit-pick on peoples postings to find something wrong so you can so-call "correct it" just for the sake of posting, why don't you actually read and try your best to use the bit of brain you have.
Wk 2/13 goal 826
Wk 2/13 actual 829
Wk 2/20 goal 2422
Wk 2/20 actual 2564
Wk 2/27 goal 3507
I wonder how many have been assembled in Japan and how many are now on US soil.
I got quoted a price from a dealer in the NE for a 2006 XLE V6 with smart key/ heated seats/ traction control.
The dealer said to get this deal his manager wants a small deposit by tomorrow.
He send me the specs and MSRP for the quoted vehicle is
29,839 and he would sell for 28,000 including destination charge.
Do you guys think I should go for it?
http://www.fitzmall.com/carfind/resultsb.asp?Search=NEW&ID=T633447&photo=TO06255- - 4&loc=FTO&mall=CH&year=2006&mk_code=TO
I got quoted a price from a dealer in the NE for a 2007 XLE V6 with smart key/ heated seats/ traction control.
The dealer said to get this deal his manager wants a small deposit by tomorrow.
He send me the specs and MSRP for the quoted vehicle is
29,839 and he would sell for 28,000 including destination charge.
Do you guys think I should go for it?