What do you mean by UA material? The entire car? Which part of the car? lol...
By the way, I went to see the XLE V6 today since they did not have the SE V6. Time constraints didn't allow me to test drive it. From what I saw, I was very impressed. The car is quite the site in person and has that taute look of the IS; it is very muscular and aggressive looking. The interior is very Lexus-like and tight. And no, the interior didn't seem like it was made of nylon.
I'm a bit envious = been to two different dealers (North Fla panhandle)on four different occasions and still all I've seen are 4 CE's. Keep the test drive and deal making reports coming!
I was talking about the seats. I know when you sit in it's very comfortable but the fabric is so thin, will a set a keys or sharp object scratch it or make noticable lines on it?
"There is also no way I would buy a car that is supposed to be sport sedan, when it can get its but whooped by a Camry."
Yeah, the performance of the IS250 is underwhelming with respect to the Camry. However I personally need power only for freeway onramp maneuvers and passing.
There's a bunch of cars that I think of as 'luxury poser' sport sedans: IS250, Acura TSX, BMW 325i, Audi A4 2.0T These have prestige labels, impressive styling, decent mileage, and luxury amenities. They all would get dusted by the Camry in a straight line test.
Is it worth the extra $$$ in upfront cost and gas to upgrade to their more powerful brethren? Just so I could put an upstart Camry owner in his proper place? For me, no.
Wow, I think I just convinced myself to buy the IS250! These forums are better than psychotherapy and much cheaper to boot
By the way, I went to see the XLE V6 today since they did not have the SE V6.
If the V6 SE is what you are interested in, be sure to drive one when available. I drove two XLE's, a 4 cyl SE and two V6 SE's - and the V6 SE has a very different feel from all of the others. The seats wrap your back a bit and the handling is night vs day different. XLE felt like a boat while I was very impressed w/ cornering on the SE. My reference car is a Maxima SE w/5sp, 220 hp and 17" Michelin Pilot Sports.
On a huge sidenote, has anyone seen the brand new commercial Toyota has out on the 2007 Camry? I saw it about four times within two hours yesterday and I must admit, this is practically the best commercial i've ever seen for a Toyota product. I would thought that it was a commercial for the new ES350 if I didn't know any better. The commercial wasn't all fun, sporty, and beach party mood like most Toyota commercials. It was very elegant and professional and they even used a guy with a very elegant voice that you usually only hear with commercials for luxury cars. They showed it on FOX and VH1 on DirecTV last night. Very impressed. If I had known nothing about this car that commercial would have pursuaded me to go check it out.
I don't know, but I do doubt it. I have only seen the XLE V6s which are amazing looking in person and also very nice inside the interior.
If I were you, I would opt for the leather interior since it is very durable (believe it or not), it looks much nicer, and also, you wont have to worry about fabric buildup on the doors from fleeces, other fabrics, or what not. The buildup of lint and other fabrics on the cloth lining on the doors of my parents' 2006 Camry is an annoyance of theirs.
Last night I was driving my 07 XLE V6 on the highway under a big thunder storm. It was a totally different feeling about driving in the rain day. All of sudden, the car became dull, slow, and heavy. I wonder if this is because of VSC.
VSC (in any car) has the ability to slow throttle and steering responses and even apply braking when IT 'thinks' it should. IMO a very questionable 'safety' feature that can actually limit a car's ultimate evasive capabilities and inhibit drivability in really bad conditions. If we are going to have computer nannies like this we ought to have the option of turning it off!
I'm on the waitlist at Fitzmall for a Camry Hybrid, doing the fly up drive back (to NC) routine. How have you found them to work with? Do you live in the DC/Northern Virginia area?
Just curious... You are getting the remote start, not the smart key system? I have a V6SE ordered (thru a local dealer) and was told that the smart key isn't yet available for the SE. BTW, my price w/o the wheel locks, but w/ XM was 28000, w/ Bluebook value for my trade. All other options are the same (except colors - Blk w/ Charcoal).
Any idea when yours is due (also, when did you place your order)? I hope to get a date this week (ordered two weeks ago).
For reference read the entire RAV4 thread from about 12-1-05 onward. That should answer everything you want to know. They are competitors but they do seem to do a good job.
Any idea what the NAV antenna looks like & where it is mounted? I know the XM antenna is mounted on the rear package shelf if you just order the XM module, but I ordered both NAV & XM. Is it one antenna for both (like on the Honda Odyssey)?
Try visiting Hoover Dam on the "Map" under the Hybrid Synergy Drive link. Shows the Hybrid Energy Monitor (navigation) screen clearly on an SE model. Come on Toyota, we all know that instrument cluster and climate control system is not available on the Hybrid!
lonewolf, I have the answer about to your underarmour question.
This is from the Toyota websites interactive experience.
"Q. When does a car ride become a rejuvenating experience?
A. We took a silk protein and bonded it with a synthetic fiber to create the Frachir process, a coating that makes seat fabric that is remarkebly gentle on the skin.
-Standard on XLE 4-cylinder only -Uses serin, a natural by-product of the silk industry -Serin, a natural moisturizer, is combined with synthetic seat fibers to create a fabric that is gentle on the skin"
Hey thanks for the tip but what do you mean by "port installed"? As best I can tell the receiver and antenna are always installed at the dealer? The $1000 radio option just buys you the SAT button. It seems like they are way behind Honda/Acura with their audio and nav systems.
Hey, CarandDriver.com posted a review of the 4 cyl '07 Camry SE. There's more pictures, especially of everyone's favorite grille!, this time with red exterior.
I tried to get a good deal for the 07 Camry LE. I asked the dealers in my area. Unbelievable!! One told me the price is $2,000 OVER MSRP, and the other told me $150 over the MSRP. I live in New Orleans (LA). Please, let me know from where can I get a nice deal, even if it is in another state. Thanks!!...Loody
The question, of course is: Can the 07 Camrys be had WITHOUT the Vehicle Control System? Since the VSC is an additional charge for the car, one might think that the car can be gotten without the VSC.
One should be able to obtain any 4c without VSC.. weird that C&D got one with it and then complained about it. They could have asked for one without VSC. Many ( most?) V6's will come with it but it's an option so yes you could get one without VSC
and jaxs1 is correct, many cars don't (Chrysler 300 for example) - which leads to a rather interesting dilemma. Referencing that C&D road test (and for that matter the test on the 300 last August) the indication is that the Camry's actual handling capabilities are at some level higher then what the VSC/TRAC (traction control) systems will allow. So now what happens if and when the system effectively stops you from avoiding an accident? Call a lawyer?
Here's a possible "fer'instance" - off the top of my head...
You're moving slowly or are stopped. In your rear view mirror you see a vehicle barreling towrad you. You know he won't be able to stop. You mash the gas pedal to try to provide space between you and the on coming vehicle - OOOPS - Mr. Computer says "No No No...wheel spins are not allowed" Your car WON'T respond and you get hit from behind. D'OH!!!!!!!!! :mad:
and this did happen to me a few months back - I drive an Avalon Touring - no VSC/TRAC: I'm in left lane of highway traveling 65 or 70, guy in right lane decides to cut in front of me (no signal, of course) and he's maybe doing 40! I have 2 choices: slam on the brakes, maybe slow down in time but probably get rear ended by the guy behind me OR accelerate while swerving violently into the left breakdown lane - which is what I did, fishtailing a little in the process. I'm convinced that had my car been VSC equipped I wouldn't have been 'allowed' to do this - the guy behind me incidentally did hit the idiot. Badmouthing 'safety systems' is a little like attacking motherhood - but my point is folks out there with the attitude that if it is safety related it must be good, need to understand what these systems actually do.
You think you would have had WHEELSPIN in the situation you cited? Seriously? If not, what do you think your car would have prevented you from doing? PERHAPS the VSC would have prevented that fishtailing? All conjecture, I know, but, let's face it, most people's skills are WAY UNDER the capability of the automobile they drive.
wheelspin a traction control system issue primarily - and one possible situation where that can get you in trouble - driving on snow/ice covered roads - the car can literally refuse to move, because IT does not think there is enough traction. VSC systems can and do slow steering and throttle responses, tranmission gear selections, and even apply braking in situations like what I was in. I'll grant you that most people's skill's are well short of any vehicle's capabilites - but I 'seriously' don't want a computer deciding what my capabilities are. Airbags have been the rage for several years now - but how many children do you think were killed or injured by them - until the mfgrs. and I'm sure the lawyers figured out they needed to do something about disabling them?
I live in Massachusetts........too far from you. The quotes here so far are between $800 - $1000 OVER invoice. Still hunting........looking as far as Conn., RI, and NH. Be patient!
Hi - Can you please give me the name of dealer/city location. I'm willing to travel to save big $$. I hope your're still loving your new car??? Thanks!
Actually, invoice is not what a dealer pays for a car. They pay a figure, based upon a number of factors, including holdback, factory sales incentives, etc., below the factory invoice price. Dealers would like you to "think" that's what they pay, but in reality it is not. This fact has been discussed previously in this forum.
New Orleans, I think, is under the auspices of Gulf States Toyota in Houston - one of two privately owned distributors in the US. It is GST that largely determines what vehicles are made available to what dealers and, for that matter, what they are basically sold for after they get done adding 'fluff' packages. There should be two price stickers on the cars, one from the factory and the other adding whatever the distributor did to it. Pricing at numbers approaching MSRP (or even above) very common with high demand cars which I would think the new Camry will be for awhile. And you better believe that the dealers know exactly what they can and cannot get - a specific dealer that seriously undercuts the pricing of the other dealers in the area will likely receive a clandestine call from the distributor threatening to cut off his supply. The Avalon had the same situation a year ago. A lot of dealers will take 'orders' at supposedly better prices only to get on allocation lists with the distributor - somehow the actual car ordered never shows up or magically appears with some 'added features' at a higher price. Not real kosher, but been going on for years.
Port installed means installed after production. Port installed can mean a facility at the factory itself, or upon arrival in one of the regional ports. (mainly Japanese production) Dealers also have the official Toyota accessory for SAT radio available over the counter.
Nope......what I'm hearing from the dealers is that they'll sell the '07 Camry LE for around $800 over invoice. That sounds like a lot of profit for them if you include the holdbacks, etc. Do you agree?
That is a steal of a deal if you ask anybody here! They are making profit, but typically you will find that nobody is very much willing to budge from MSRP, although you will find some that do.
With any new product, it's whatever the market will bear. Given time, the prices will stabilize to a more typical level.
Again, good things (i.e. saving money) come to those who wait! Early adopters always pay the price.
If it were me, I would certain have paitence and wait. Not only for a better deal, but to sort out any first year production glitches. Toyota generally does a very good job on sorting out a car prior to production, but it's inevitable that something will arise within the first few months of sales.
This is a good representation of what 'could' occur on a slick/icy pavement.
But this is the situation that has to be present: you are stopped or moving slowly - given you see that you are going to be rearended by a high speed vehicle-given
but then:
road must be loose, slick or icy - if it's dry just get out of the way.
but then: it's must be safe to shoot out into the intersection at which you ar stopped to avoid being hit.
Captain: VSC/Trac would not have prevented you from accelerating out of harms way, it likely would have controlled your 'fishtailing' for a few instants until you were back in control.
My own, since I used to drive in the snow most of my life. I'm at an intersection with a stop sign, probably not a light, and I begin to venture out suddenly realizing that I grossly misjudged traffic and shouldn't have gone into the intersection. I stomp in it to get across but the Trac slows the spinning wheels to regain traction and I get hit because I didnt make it across in time. It's not a pleasant idea but it's not the car's fault it's my fault for misjudging traffic.
Now in my 96 Concorde without Trac I did two 360's in front of Giant's Stadium across 5 lanes because the left front wheel was going 80 mph when it came out of a puddle while the right wheel was only doing 60 mpg.
For the isolated instances where good defensive driving will avoid most accidents I will take the addition of Trac to avoid unforseen problems.
Well for comparison sake.. when you buy a skirt, outfit or suit the mark up is about 100% even on normal sale items. Your $300 outfit creates a profit of maybe $100-200.
On most sophisticated manufactured good 5% profit is about the minimum unless it's an extremely high volume commodity where the margin might be 1-2%.
5% of a $10000 car is $500 $20000 car is $1000 etc.
Captain: VSC/Trac would not have prevented you from accelerating out of harms way, it likely would have controlled your 'fishtailing' for a few instants until you were back in control. THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT IT CAN DO! think you possibly wrong and only 'possibly'because without the VSC on my particular car I have no way of knowing. Example: Lexus is currently advertising a 'great' safety system that anticipates an accident, and when the car thinks it is about to hit something it does things like tighten the seat belts, disable throttle and will even apply the brakes for you lest you forget! So now we have a recent test (C&D, I think) of this in a GS 430, and somehow the vehicle's speed thru a 600' slalom is seriously limited by this system - why, because the car 'thought' that the track pylons were the impending accident and shut everything down before that particular car's limits wewre even approached. This 600' slalom (speeds tend to be about 60 mph or so) approximates a car's evasive capabilties. So, yes, I think that for what happened to me, there is a really solid possibility that my car would not have allowed me to do what I did because I also had accelerate hard, not to mention swerve hard enough to create the fishtail. Remember what the original poster of this thread was talking about - a 'magically' sluggish and unresponsive car driving in bad weather. Had my car been at all sluggish and didn't have all of those 280 horses, I don't get around that guy. All this said - is VSC/TRAC (they generally come together) a bad idea - not necessarily, properly applied with the system set close to vehicle limits - it can certainly save your bacon - an overapplication of technology, perhaps - but, when you get stuck in that snow drift that you used to be able to 'plow thru', or your car simply doesn't react as quickly as you expected to in an emergency situation - you need to understand why.
Comments
By the way, I went to see the XLE V6 today since they did not have the SE V6. Time constraints didn't allow me to test drive it. From what I saw, I was very impressed. The car is quite the site in person and has that taute look of the IS; it is very muscular and aggressive looking. The interior is very Lexus-like and tight. And no, the interior didn't seem like it was made of nylon.
Keep the test drive and deal making reports coming!
Yeah, the performance of the IS250 is underwhelming with respect to the Camry.
However I personally need power only for freeway onramp maneuvers and passing.
There's a bunch of cars that I think of as 'luxury poser' sport sedans: IS250, Acura TSX, BMW 325i, Audi A4 2.0T These have prestige labels, impressive styling, decent mileage, and luxury amenities. They all would get dusted by the Camry in a straight line test.
Is it worth the extra $$$ in upfront cost and gas to upgrade to their more powerful brethren? Just so I could put an upstart Camry owner in his proper place? For me, no.
Wow, I think I just convinced myself to buy the IS250! These forums are better than psychotherapy and much cheaper to boot
If the V6 SE is what you are interested in, be sure to drive one when available. I drove two XLE's, a 4 cyl SE and two V6 SE's - and the V6 SE has a very different feel from all of the others. The seats wrap your back a bit and the handling is night vs day different. XLE felt like a boat while I was very impressed w/ cornering on the SE. My reference car is a Maxima SE w/5sp, 220 hp and 17" Michelin Pilot Sports.
If I were you, I would opt for the leather interior since it is very durable (believe it or not), it looks much nicer, and also, you wont have to worry about fabric buildup on the doors from fleeces, other fabrics, or what not. The buildup of lint and other fabrics on the cloth lining on the doors of my parents' 2006 Camry is an annoyance of theirs.
link
Here is my incoming car:
link title
Any idea when yours is due (also, when did you place your order)? I hope to get a date this week (ordered two weeks ago).
Are you saying the '07 Camry doesn't have this option? Every other car I've seen with stability control did have a button for turning it off
This is from the Toyota websites interactive experience.
"Q. When does a car ride become a rejuvenating experience?
A. We took a silk protein and bonded it with a synthetic fiber to create the Frachir process, a coating that makes seat fabric that is remarkebly gentle on the skin.
-Standard on XLE 4-cylinder only
-Uses serin, a natural by-product of the silk industry
-Serin, a natural moisturizer, is combined with synthetic seat fibers to create a fabric that is gentle on the skin"
There we have it!
http://www.caranddriver.com/roadtests/10873/road-test-review-2007-toyota-camry-s- e-page3.html
There's a lot of technical talk that I couldn't understand, but I think they were generally happy, they just wish VSC would let them spin the tires.
Does anyone know?
A fer'instance?
You're moving slowly or are stopped. In your rear view mirror you see a vehicle barreling towrad you. You know he won't be able to stop. You mash the gas pedal to try to provide space between you and the on coming vehicle - OOOPS - Mr. Computer says "No No No...wheel spins are not allowed" Your car WON'T respond and you get hit from behind. D'OH!!!!!!!!! :mad:
I'm in left lane of highway traveling 65 or 70, guy in right lane decides to cut in front of me (no signal, of course) and he's maybe doing 40! I have 2 choices: slam on the brakes, maybe slow down in time but probably get rear ended by the guy behind me OR accelerate while swerving violently into the left breakdown lane - which is what I did, fishtailing a little in the process. I'm convinced that had my car been VSC equipped I wouldn't have been 'allowed' to do this - the guy behind me incidentally did hit the idiot.
Badmouthing 'safety systems' is a little like attacking motherhood - but my point is folks out there with the attitude that if it is safety related it must be good, need to understand what these systems actually do.
Thanks!
Pricing at numbers approaching MSRP (or even above) very common with high demand cars which I would think the new Camry will be for awhile. And you better believe that the dealers know exactly what they can and cannot get - a specific dealer that seriously undercuts the pricing of the other dealers in the area will likely receive a clandestine call from the distributor threatening to cut off his supply. The Avalon had the same situation a year ago. A lot of dealers will take 'orders' at supposedly better prices only to get on allocation lists with the distributor - somehow the actual car ordered never shows up or magically appears with some 'added features' at a higher price. Not real kosher, but been going on for years.
Again, good things (i.e. saving money) come to those who wait! Early adopters always pay the price.
If it were me, I would certain have paitence and wait. Not only for a better deal, but to sort out any first year production glitches. Toyota generally does a very good job on sorting out a car prior to production, but it's inevitable that something will arise within the first few months of sales.
But this is the situation that has to be present:
you are stopped or moving slowly - given
you see that you are going to be rearended by a high speed vehicle-given
but then:
road must be loose, slick or icy - if it's dry just get out of the way.
but then:
it's must be safe to shoot out into the intersection at which you ar stopped to avoid being hit.
Captain: VSC/Trac would not have prevented you from accelerating out of harms way, it likely would have controlled your 'fishtailing' for a few instants until you were back in control.
My own, since I used to drive in the snow most of my life. I'm at an intersection with a stop sign, probably not a light, and I begin to venture out suddenly realizing that I grossly misjudged traffic and shouldn't have gone into the intersection. I stomp in it to get across but the Trac slows the spinning wheels to regain traction and I get hit because I didnt make it across in time. It's not a pleasant idea but it's not the car's fault it's my fault for misjudging traffic.
Now in my 96 Concorde without Trac I did two 360's in front of Giant's Stadium across 5 lanes because the left front wheel was going 80 mph when it came out of a puddle while the right wheel was only doing 60 mpg.
For the isolated instances where good defensive driving will avoid most accidents I will take the addition of Trac to avoid unforseen problems.
This only applies to cars on the lot, not special orders or cars that must be acquired from other dealers.
On most sophisticated manufactured good 5% profit is about the minimum unless it's an extremely high volume commodity where the margin might be 1-2%.
5% of a
$10000 car is $500
$20000 car is $1000
etc.
Surprise, surprise I always knew you were not the sport sedan type--especially from what I gathered from your posts in the "IS versus 3 series forum".
I myself was interested in getting the hybrid Camry (but the trunk space is too small for our family needs).
Good luck with your choice. Camrys are great cars(although my bias is towards the Accord)
think you possibly wrong and only 'possibly'because without the VSC on my particular car I have no way of knowing. Example: Lexus is currently advertising a 'great' safety system that anticipates an accident, and when the car thinks it is about to hit something it does things like tighten the seat belts, disable throttle and will even apply the brakes for you lest you forget! So now we have a recent test (C&D, I think) of this in a GS 430, and somehow the vehicle's speed thru a 600' slalom is seriously limited by this system - why, because the car 'thought' that the track pylons were the impending accident and shut everything down before that particular car's limits wewre even approached. This 600' slalom (speeds tend to be about 60 mph or so) approximates a car's evasive capabilties. So, yes, I think that for what happened to me, there is a really solid possibility that my car would not have allowed me to do what I did because I also had accelerate hard, not to mention swerve hard enough to create the fishtail. Remember what the original poster of this thread was talking about - a 'magically' sluggish and unresponsive car driving in bad weather. Had my car been at all sluggish and didn't have all of those 280 horses, I don't get around that guy.
All this said - is VSC/TRAC (they generally come together) a bad idea - not necessarily, properly applied with the system set close to vehicle limits - it can certainly save your bacon - an overapplication of technology, perhaps - but, when you get stuck in that snow drift that you used to be able to 'plow thru', or your car simply doesn't react as quickly as you expected to in an emergency situation - you need to understand why.