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Hybrids and HOV Lanes
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Comments
"Pure" is the word in contention here. Is the purpose of HOV very specific and doesn't translate to anything else?
As long as you put it that way. Yes, Congress is correct in not allowing the hybrids to subvert the usage of the HOV lanes. They were built with ALL taxpayers money to encourage people to travel to work in groups rather than solo. That is all they should be used for. Emissions and saving gas has nothing to do with moving heavy traffic in an orderly fashion.
The MAIN POINT of the initiatives to allow +45 mpg Hybrids into the car pool lane is "encourage more people to BUY high MPG/low polluting cars"
In other words, dangle the carrot of "you will spend less time in traffic because you can use the car pool lane" in front of car buyers.
It has nothing to do with MPG efficiency, or the number of people in the car, or the type of vehicle.
It is intended to "drive" people, encourage people, to buy and drive cleaner and higher MPG cars.
It may become a failed social experiment judging by the problems in Virginia, but nonetheless, the INTENT of the program has VALUE to us all.
I think the intent was Good. I just see that it is a failure to accomplish what the intent was. How do you police something like that? It was going to be first come in CA, then cutoff at a given number. How is that fair, when one guy has been trying to buy a Prius for 6 months and another guy walks into a car dealership and drives away in a new Prius. Then the fact that it was limited to 3 low production high priced vehicles made it less fair. And it does nothing to relieve the grid lock on the highways.
HOV lanes need to be used by commuters that car pool, as it was intended. And the fines & enforcement need to be such to discourage cheaters.
Why?
To alleviate the grid lock on many of the highways in this country. Two or more people traveling together take up less room on the highway. One person in a PU truck or a Prius takes up about the same space on the highway. Giving special treatment to any solo driver of a car does not help the traffic situation at all. Driving a hybrid is not helping the traffic situation in the least. Having more than one person in a car helps. Staying off the highways in peak traffic helps even more.
period
How does that help in the bottom line?
Perhaps we should start a "HOV Lanes: Purpose? Are they working?" over in the News & Views board.
I say no. Replacing a 1-driver Civic with a 1-driver Civic Hybrid doesn't reduce the # of cars on the road... which is the only purpose of HOV lanes.
Therefore a 1-driver Civic Hybrid should not be allowed in the HOV.
troy
What part of the answer I gave you was unclear? Cleaning the air and using less fuel does not have anything to do with the flow of traffic. If I had bought a hybrid for the specific reason that I was going to get in the HOV lane I would probably be upset. Hopefully the lower monthly fuel bill and the satisfaction of knowing you are not polluting as much as some of the other cars will salve the loss of that perk.
Motorcycles are permitted by federal law to use HOV lanes, even though they typically carry only one passenger. The explanation for the federal law is that allowing motorcycles to use HOV lanes keeps them moving, and it is considered safer to keep two-wheel vehicles moving than it is to have them traveling in start-and-stop traffic conditions. The individual states can choose to override this provision of federal law, if they determine that there is an inherent safety risk by allowing motorcycles to use HOV lanes. In the State of California, motorcycles are permitted to use HOV facilities unless a traffic control device specifically prohibits them.
Some HOV lanes require 3 people during certain hours. I guess that would mean you would have to have two people in the hybrid during those hours to comply.
Hybrids not the first given the solo use of HOV lanes:
As of July 1, 2000, drivers of non-gasoline powered, ultra-low-emission vehicles (ULEV's) can apply to the State of California Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV) for special ID stickers that allow them to use the carpool lanes without meeting passenger requirements. The stickers, which cost $8 each, are limited in number. As there are currently few ULEVs currently on the road, this applies to only a small number of California drivers. The bill (AB 71) is intended to reward drivers of cleaner cars while increasing the demand for ultra-low-emission vehicles.
http://www.mta.net/trans_planning/CPD/HOV/1_hov.htm
http://www.mta.net/trans_planning/CPD/HOV/1_lacounty.htm
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Second, I suspect cycles are allowed for the same reason 1-seat cars are allowed... they are already carrying maximum capacity... and therefore not wasting precious road space.
In contrast, other cars have empty seats & are just wasting road space. HOV lanes encourage drivers to fill that wasteful space with passengers.
troy
Cleaner air is integral part of free flowing traffic.
Hybrid owners in Virginia -- is there an organization that is promoting extending hybrid use in the HOV lanes past June of 2006? I want to get involved.
troy
I hear they are considering it for the X Games...
In contrast, other cars have empty seats & are just wasting road space. HOV lanes encourage drivers to fill that wasteful space with passengers.
Hybrids, although high on the MPGs, don't accomplish the HOV's goal of reducing wasted space (empty seats) on the roads, and they should not be there.
troy
Maximum capacity couldn't be used as an excuse. You couldn't allow a sports car running at full capacity with one seat taken by grocery bags.
I would be interested in that as well. From what I have have read, VDOT will monitor HOV usage and make the decision accordingly. I have seen Hybrid usage of HOV lanes increase dramatically during the past two years and would expect that to continue as more models become available.
I have tried to research the criteria other states are using to determine access. First, it doesn't seem many other areas allow single occupant HOV use. If I recall correctly one state is allowing access only to the Prius, Insight and Civic, another only for vehicles that average > 45 mpg.
troy
BTW, is HOV use dependent on per capita space occupied by the vehicle?
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Maybe, but what about replacing a 2-person ULEV Civic with (2) 1-person SULEV Civic Hybrids? That creates *more* dirty exhaust.
troy
(1)Joe & Dave carpool to work every morning in a ULEV Civic (ultra-clean)
(2) The State passes a law that encourages people to buy Hybrids for use on HOV lanes.
(3) Joe & Dave get excited and buy hybrids.
(4) Now Joe & Dave are driving separately & producing *more* pollution.
.
That's why HOV lanes should *not* be used to encourage hybrid sales. HOV lanes should be used to encourage carpooling & fewer cars on the road.
EVEN WORSE: Someone who trades in their clean ULEV 38mpg Civic for a less-clean 30mpg Escape SUV, just because it's a hybrid. Again, you've made the air *dirtier*.
troy
for a less-clean 30mpg Escape SUV, just because it's a hybrid. Again, you've made the air *dirtier*.
If the Escape is the PZEV variant, it is cleaning the air as it drives through it of many metropolitan cities. The same cannot be said of the ULEV rated Civic. A PZEV no matter if it’s receiving 30 mpg or 50 is far cleaner then a LEV/ULEV receiving 30, 45, or even 92.5 mpg as an example. GHG’s not withstanding.
Good Luck
Wayne R. Gerdes
REVISED:
EVEN WORSE: Someone who trades in their clean 38mpg Civic PZEV for a less-clean 30mpg Escape, just because the escape's a hybrid. Your Hybrid=HOV law just encouraged a buyer to make the air *dirtier*.
Laws should be based upon *actual cleanliness of a car*, not the battery in the truck.
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Furthermore, if the HOV lanes fill up with Hybrids & creates congestion (as happened in Virginia), you now have a bunch of hybrid cars coasting at ~10 mph and adding *more* pollution, not less.
THINK before you just jump on the "allow hybrids in HOV" bandwagon. Think about the long-term consequences of your law.
troy
I think Virginia is the only state to defy the Federal mandate on HOV lanes. They could lose their highway funds trying to go against Federal law. I don't think CA carried through on the hybrid HOV incentive.
http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/ccvl/2005sulevpzevlist.htm?PF=Y
a) Can I drive by myself in the carpool lanes in California?
b) Bridges are toll-free in CA for carpoolers. Will that apply for hybrids as well?
c) Any chance that highlander or other new SUVs will qualify for these benefits as well?
Please help bring some clarity into this smoggy world of laws and regulations.
Not at this time. The HH,Escape Hybrid & RX400h are not being considered for this bill. It is only for hybrids with a combined EPA of 45 MPG or better.
http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/carpool/carpool.htm
Kinda like what the people in Cali are waiting for I think.
( Welcome back, Gary, we missed ya !!! )
Thanks,
I just got back to the Arctic. Trying to get as much oil down the pipeline to you guys as I can.
Not sure what the holdup is on the HOV bill. That is a bigger list of eligible vehicles than I expected.
High Occupancy Vehicle lanes (HOV) are getting clogged with hybrid vehicles in the Washington metro area, according to Pierce Homer, deputy secretary of transport in Virginia.
http://www.tollroadsnews.com/cgi-bin/a.cgi/ttrR8mR5EdmcEIJ61nsxIA
The HOV benefit was implemented to encourage buyers to buy Hybrids for the sake of the environment and for the sake of cleaner air. There is NOTHING wrong with that strategy at all.
Arizona has passed Hybrid/HOV law too but the Feds have stalled it. Likely the story in California too - it will never come to be. Very sad.
Another "sad" HOV situation is the fact that single drivers with a child on board can use them. That is not reducing driving by encouraging car pools. It should be restricted to Hybrid drivers (alone) OR other cars with TWO LICENSED DRIVERS on board. It is a "carpool" lane after all.
P.S. I loved it when I had a long commute with my toddler daughter and could use the HOV lane to get to and from work faster. I did not think it was right then either, but I liked the effect on my commute.
Maybe we should let the Expeditions and Suburans into the HOV lanes; they would gain the most benefit from not having to stop. (I'm being facietious, of course, but from a gas point it makes sense).
What's wrong with allowing kids to count as the second person? I think it supports families and togetherness.
No, there is a glitch; the CA law is more strict than the Federal law, and they have to work it out with the Feds. Shouldn't take long...