Hybrids and HOV Lanes

markdmac

Anybody know of a link to the above mentioned law? I'd like to see what the feds did approve. I live in AZ and we are waiting on this as much as CA is.

PF_Flyer

If you go to the Library of Congress site

http://thomas.loc.gov/home/c109query.html

you can search for the keyword "hybrid" and you'll find alll sorts of legislation. I've only taken a short look and haven't found the final bill, but found HR 444

A BILL
To amend title 23, United States Code, relating to the use of high occupancy vehicle lanes by hybrid vehicles.

Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,

SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.

This Act may be cited as the `Hybrid Vehicle HOV Access Act'.

SEC. 2. HYBRID VEHICLE EXCEPTION.

Section 102(a) of title 23, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the following:

`(3) EXCEPTION FOR LOW-EMISSION HYBRID VEHICLES- Notwithstanding paragraph (1), a State may permit a vehicle with fewer than 2 occupants to operate in high occupancy vehicle lanes if--

`(A) such vehicle is a hybrid vehicle; and

`(B) the State establishes, after the date of enactment of this paragraph, requirements for identifying vehicles that are hybrid vehicles and labeling such vehicles as hybrid vehicles.

`(4) HYBRID VEHICLE DEFINED- For purposes of this subsection, the term `hybrid vehicle' means a motor vehicle (as such term is defined in section 164(a))--

`(A) which draws propulsion energy from onboard sources of stored energy which are both--

`(i) an internal combustion or heat engine using combustible fuel; and

`(ii) a rechargeable energy storage system;

`(B) which, in the case of a passenger automobile or light truck--

`(i) for 2002 and later model vehicles, has received a certificate of conformity under the Clean Air Act (42 U.S.C. 7401 et seq.) and meets or exceeds the equivalent qualifying California low emission vehicle standard under section 243(e)(2) of the Clean Air Act (42 U.S.C. 7583(c)(2)) for that make and model year; and

`(ii) for 2004 and later model vehicles, has received a certificate that such vehicle meets or exceeds the Bin 5 Tier II emission level established in regulations prescribed by the Administrator of the Environmental Protection Agency under section 202(i) of the Clean Air Act (42 U.S.C. 7521(i)) or as meeting a California Air Resources Board emission standard that is at least as stringent for that make and model year vehicle, and meets any additional Environmental Protection Agency or California Air Resources Board emissions category or other requirements identified by the Agency or the Board, as the case may be;

`(C)(i) which has been certified by the Administrator of the Environmental Protection Agency to have a 45-mile-per-gallon or greater fuel economy highway rating; or

`(ii) which meets any additional requirements, restrictions, or conditions that the State establishes before, on, or after the date of enactment of this paragraph; and

`(D) which is made by a manufacturer.'.

SEC. 3. TERMINATION.

Effective December 31, 2010, paragraphs (3) and (4) of section 102(a) of title 23, United States, are repealed.

kdlu

I'd like to get the Clean Air Vechile Stickers to drive in carpool lane but I heard DMV is only issuing 75,000. Does anyone know how many has been issued thus far? I don't know whether to wait til Jan '06 to purchase (for tax credit) or to purchase now and still try to get the sticker. Thanks.

gagrice

It is obvious hybrid advocates do not like facing the reality of their impact on CONGESTION. Hybrids in NO POSSIBLE WAY help the congestion on our highways. Unless they are filled with co-workers that left their SUVs at home. Hopefully CA sees the light and ends the fiasco sooner than VA.

Virginia transportation officials said yesterday that hybrid vehicles have become so prevalent in the Interstate 95/395 carpool lanes that their use may be curbed earlier than promised.

Those included ending the exemption for hybrids before its scheduled expiration July 1, 2006

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A64124-2005Mar1.html

larsb

Hybrids do not HELP the congestion if it is a car by car trade-off.

What I'm trying to get you to understand is that they do not INCREASE the congestion EITHER unless it was a person who was not using a car in the first place who bought a hybrid as a car and ADDED ANOTHER CAR to the road.

Whether a single car is driving in the non-HOV lane or driving in the HOV lane, that in itself does not impact congestion at all.

zodiac2004

is to "ease congestion by encouraging carpooling".
Motorbikes are allowed on it for 2 reasons.
They occupy much smaller real-estate and 1 person on a motorbike makes it "fully occupied".

Letting hybrids and CNGs use HOV lanes completely defeats the purpose, and the impact is felt more as more hybrids are bought and used for that purpose.

larsb

is to reduce air pollution. Fewer cars on road equals less pollution.

You know what ELSE equals less pollution? Hybrids.

Thus hybrids owners were "dangled the carrot" of being able to drive in the HOV lanes as a REWARD for purchasing a less polluting car.

Ta-Da....Perfect logic.....

gagrice

Ta-Da....Perfect logic....

No such thing as perfect logic in a totally imperfect world.... And your logic makes very little common sense.
It is about as logical as the $100k first year deduction for buying a Hummer.

larsb

How is enticing consumers to buy lower polluting, higher mileage cars with the goals of:

1) lowering fuel consumption
2) lowering levels of air pollution
3) reducing by one the number of stopped cars in the non-HOV lanes

not common sense?

Seemes very sensible to me......:D

PS
Has been very sensible and logical for the many states who have passed such legislation. You think EVERY ONE of those politicos are idiots? There are fools in any group, but most of the time, many of those guys and gals who represent us are hard charging, intelligent, driven-to-excellence people who have a valid interest in the "public good."

gagrice

You think EVERY ONE of those politicos are idiots?

The ones that passed that law in CA & VA. Not sure what other states are so fortunate. You obviously have not read or followed the VA mess with allowing hybrids in the HOV. I guess it is nice to go through life only seeing what you want to see.

larsb

quote gagrice-"guess it is nice to go through life only seeing what you want to see."-end quote

No, I have seen the stories about the "Virginia CryBabies" as I call them. I say the state which has the second largest Hybrid registrations did the RIGHT THING for the air in VA.

Like I said before, adding a Hybrid to replace an existing car does nothing to increase congestion. Just moves it from one set of STOPPED lanes to another SLOWLY MOVING lane, with the BINGO BENEFIT of cleaner air.

midnightcowboy

Larsb,

Is it okay to ride my 24-speed bicycle on the HOV lane since it is even less polution?

LOL,

MidCow

mirth

HOV lanes are for reducing congestion by encouraging carpooling. Period. Hence the name - "High Occupancy Vehicles". Allowing lone drivers in hybrids to use the lane defeats the whole purpose. The advantage of the HOV lane is that is moves significantly faster than the other lanes - by allowing lone drivers to use it the lane becomes almost as congested as the "regular" lanes so people have no incentive to carpool. Why put up with the hassle of carpooling if you're only going to get to work five minutes earlier (and I guarantee that picking everyone in the car pool up will add more than five minutes to the commute)? Forget the 0.0000000001% decrease in air pollution - people want to get to work faster.

gagrice

I think as the state of Virginia has already learned, allowing any single occupant cars in the HOV lanes is a BIG mistake. VA is wisely eliminating the added congestion caused by hybrids. Let's hope CA gets their head out of you know where and repeals the single occupant wavers.

allowing the current exemption for hybrid vehicles to expire in July 2006 will help preserve the effectiveness of Northern Virginia’s HOV lanes,

http://www.virginiadot.org/infoservice/news/newsrelease.asp?ID=NOVA-NR05-02

cbs4

In CA, single occupant special vehicles (Hybrids, EV, CNG, etc) with HOV lane stickers will have their privileges expire at the end of 2008. That is only a 2 year window.

I think it is an appropriate and measured incentive to encourage consumers to consider making the financial sacrifice to use a Hybrid.

And it IS a sacrifice, even with the tax incentive. A stick shift Corolla is still less expensive to acquire and operate over a five year period.

A used Tercel or Civic is even less.

By the time 2008 rolls around, Hybrids will be less of an anomoly, and be more mainstream. I understand that 13 new Hybridized cars are on the horizon for introduction over the next two years. At that point, it makes sense to close the door on the exceptions, as it evolves into the rule.

zodiac2004

I say the state which has the second largest Hybrid registrations did the RIGHT THING for the air in VA.


Lars, you and I have disagreed with a lot of issues in the past, but I can't think of any topic in which I disagree with you more.

How about this?

A Hummer idling in traffic causes a lot more pollution than a hybrid in the same traffic. So to save the air, we should let the Hummer go in the HOV lane.
That would save the air even more than letting the hybrid in the HOV lane, wouldn't it.

larsb

I'm not a politician, and hopefully Zodiac, you are not either....

But the GOALS of the "hybrids in the HOV lane" legislation are perfectly clear and perfectly correct in this regard:

The goal of the program is to PROMOTE HIGH MILEAGE HYBRID VEHICLE PURCHASES by dangling a "you get to drive in the HOV lane" carrot in front of car buyers.

In THAT regard, it's a no brainer to say that the GOAL of the program is good and well-intentioned - no debate allowed there. And more high mileage hybrids on the road means cleaner air - there is no debate about that either. Anyone who disagrees with those two items, then you are not thinking clearly.

So that goal is clear, well-intentioned, and well thought out.

Where they got in trouble is when they put this program into areas (Virginia) where the traffic congestion was already pretty bad, and the buyers took so many hybrids into the HOV lanes that the HOV lanes got clogged.

That problem is just a result of poor highway planning, and has nothing to do with Hybrids.

So the goal of the HOV lane hybrid access is FINE, but the execution of it may need more attention.

zodiac2004

But the GOALS of the "hybrids in the HOV lane" legislation are perfectly clear and perfectly correct in this regard:

The goal of the program is to PROMOTE HIGH MILEAGE HYBRID VEHICLE PURCHASES by dangling a "you get to drive in the HOV lane" carrot in front of car buyers.



This is in direct contradiction to the goal of the "HOV lane" legislaion itself. And that's the whole issue.

midnightcowboy

I think Hybrids are fine in the HOV lane iff ( if and only if) they meet the minimum occupant requirements and if they maintain a reasonable speed.

I think it laughably funny that the hybrids sales need to be encouraged by tax credits and HOV single occupant carrots. The people in governement are not stupid and the only reason they are doing this is because anyone above average intelligence can calculate that hybrids are not economically feasible.

YMMV,

MidCow

larsb

Once again, I'm not a politician, but my general feeling of what was discussed was something like this:

"Well, we've got that HOV lane sitting out there mostly empty on most days. Why don't we dangle that as an incentive to the hybrid drivers? We already let single-driver motorcycles drive in the lane, so why not let a single driver CAR who gets the same or better mileage drive in the lane?"

So the same logic which allowed motorcycles into the HOV lane probably opened the door for hybrids - the clean air issue.

zodiac2004

So the same logic which allowed motorcycles into the HOV lane probably opened the door for hybrids - the clean air issue.

NO. The logic in allowing motorcycles is simple - a motorcycle with a driver is considered "fully occupied".

larsb

A motorcycle with only a driver is as "fully occupied" as a Honda Insight with only a driver.

(There's room for two)

zodiac2004

A motorcycle with only a driver is as "fully occupied" as a Honda Insight with only a driver.

(There's room for two)


No there isn't. A motorbike is primarily designed for just the driver. There are some exceptions of course.

If you consider an insight, then a Miata would qualify as well.

larsb

Does a Miata get 66 MPG? Nope.

It's beyond debate. Promoting clean cars is a GOOD cause. If dangling an HOV sticker in front of buyers gets more clean cars on the road, where's the harm? No harm.

mirth

It's beyond debate.

That'll quiet down those skeptics.

larsb

Seems to have worked so far.....;)

zodiac2004

It's beyond debate. Promoting clean cars is a GOOD cause. If dangling an HOV sticker in front of buyers gets more clean cars on the road, where's the harm? No harm.

Here's the harm.

Clogged HOV lanes.

Isn't that the point of this whole discussion.

larsb

As I explained on a previous day, that is NOT the fault of the "hybrids in the HOV lane" but instead is a fault of poor highway planning !!

It's only happening in ONE PLACE - Virginia, where the average income is higher and the incentive has led VA to become the second largest hybrid state behind CA.

What CA learned from that is that you need to LIMIT the number of hybrid HOV drivers, and that is why CA has a limit on the number of stickers they will issue, and other controls like making it a part of the toll system in certain areas, etc.

Virginia was the "virgin" (if you will) state to apply this plan, and they made mistakes, which they are correcting. But it is not because the plan itself was bad - it was the EXECUTION of the plan which caused problems.

larsb

http://www.dailynews.com/news/ci_3419037

Yellow light for hybrids
By Lisa Mascaro, Staff Writer

If you've been thinking about buying a hybrid car so you can drive solo in California's car-pool lanes, this might be just the time to seal the deal.

The Department of Motor Vehicles reports the program is wildly popular, and officials are approving about 200 HOV access stickers a day. Once the state issues 50,000 decals - at the current rate, that could come in March - Caltrans will study whether the car-pool lanes have become too congested to allow access to any more solo drivers in hybrids.

If Caltrans' 90-day study determines that the car-pool lanes have become too crowded, it could shut down the program to new users as early as summer.

Hybrid owners who already have the bright yellow stickers are thrilled they got in on the perk before it slips away.

"It's probably shaved 15 to 20 minutes off of my commute, easily," said Doug Dearing, who drives 40 miles from Castaic to his job in Van Nuys. "I had been pretty excited about the prospect of getting that sticker right up front."

Since the program took effect last summer, the DMV has seen a brisk demand for the $8 decals needed to drive alone in the high-occupancy-vehicle lanes, which usually require at least two occupants.

As of Wednesday, the DMV had issued 42,657 stickers to California drivers.

gagrice

What a SHAM on those that are legitimate car poolers. I would be outraged if I had to share that lane with some fat cat in a hybrid. Maybe the real HOV drivers will run the hybrids out of that lane. I can see it creating a lot of hybrid haters. Especially if they try to hypermile in the the HOV lanes.

midnightcowboy

Gagprice,

Gagprice, I completely agree!.
Another HOV question:

Since the purpose of HOV lanes is to reduce the number of vehicles driving on roads, then occupants in a car should be of legal driving age for a car to qualify to drive on an HOV lane.

My point is that someone with a baby seat in the car, with the baby as the second occupant, should not qualify to drive on an HOV lane.

I think it is ludicrious that the government is offering all of these incentives to "jump-start" the hybrid craze. If Hybrids are so great , then why can't they stand on their own merit withou tax credits and HOV lane passes. I thin the answer is obvious!

I drive the HOV lanes legitimately, with another adult!!

MidCow

larsb

From my last posted story:

It wasn't intended to just lift the lid on the use of the car-pool lanes," said Pavley's district director, Louise Rishoff. "That bill is about clean air and clean vehicles, and to really get people to think about purchasing a hybrid and increasing their visibility. And I think that has certainly has happened."

That lady says what I have been saying ALL ALONG - using the HOV lane as a hybrid perk is about CLEAN AIR and promoting CLEAN VEHICLES. That's why it's GOOD and proper use.

larsb

quote MidCow-"If Hybrids are so great , then why can't they stand on their own merit withou tax credits and HOV lane passes?"-end quote

I can explain that to your satisfaction.

1. The vast majority of people could give a rat's patootie about making any changes IN THEIR OWN LIVES to help the environment. But then if government (whose job it is to keep the air clean) can make it easy on them by telling them that they can commute faster AND get higher gas mileage, they might bite.

2. The added cost of hybrids is not for every buyer. Some people on tight budgets cannot afford to pay extra for a hybrid car - but then if you sweeten the deal with a tax break and HOV access, suddenly they CAN afford it.

It's all about PROMOTING CLEAN CARS. That's why the tax act of last year includes "clean diesels" as well as hybrids.

gagrice

My point is that someone with a baby seat in the car, with the baby as the second occupant, should not qualify to drive on an HOV lane.

Just another lame excuse to circumvent the intent of the law. It is a High Occupancy Vehicle lane.....

larsb

Babies as HOV occupants:

It's simply because of the wording of the law. All they need to change is the wording "second person" to the wording "second licensed driver" and that problem would go away.

It's not the problem of the HOV driver with a baby, it's a problem of incorrectly written law.

midnightcowboy

Larsb said:

"I can explain that to your satisfaction. "

NOPE, you didn't explain Hybridism to my satisfaction, SORRY!

Hey, if the government was really about "PROMOTING CLEAN CARS" i.e. CLEAN TRANSPORTATION don't you think they would be thinking along the lines of usable Mass Transit.

Bottom line is hybrids are just the governments latest bandaid fad and really can not stand on their own and they don't want to pony up the money to fix the real problem.

Now back on topic - HOV lanes are for High Occupant Vehicle not LOV Low Occupant Vehicles that get HMPGAPLPPG (High Miles Per Gallon and Produce Low Polutants Per Gallon)

Cheers,

MidCow

P.S.- Larsb while I do not agree with most of your philisophy or opinions and do agree with your choice of car vendor.

larsb

Thanks for both your agreements and your disagreements - they fuel the Spirit Of Debate. If we all agreed on everything, how boring would THAT be?

No, on to the debate:

quote Midcow-"Hey, if the government was really about "PROMOTING CLEAN CARS" i.e. CLEAN TRANSPORTATION don't you think they would be thinking along the lines of usable Mass Transit."-end quote

As far as I know, virtually every large metro city in the USA has some form of mass transit, most of it paid for by the national government. It's not the MASS TRANSIT which is the problem - the problem is PEOPLE and their LIVES are not compatible with mass transit.

Take me and all the guys in my department. Guy #1 lives only about 15 freeway minutes away, but he has a wife and four kids. His life has diversions and things which cause him to need personal transportation at the drop of a hat. He might have to go pick up a kid from school who got sick, or he might have a doctor or dentist appointment, or his kids might be off from school for a school holiday which is not a holiday for our company. So because he needs the FLEXIBILITY of being able to come and go at odd times of the day, he CANNOT use Mass Transit as a normal course of his day.

Neither can I, although I only live 5.3 miles from work. I have many times had to go run an errand, or take kids something to school, or pickup a sick child, or go to a medical or dental appointment myself.

The buses just don't run enough and get people there fast enough.

So it's not "build it and they will come" when it comes to mass transit. It's more like "build it and it will get ignored."

Phoenix as we speak is installing a "light rail system" in the city which costs 43 million dollars per mile. Most of the money to pay for that is coming from the National government. In fact, a rail car will be running RIGHT DOWN THE STREET from our office.

Will I be able to use it daily. NO. The reason is that I live south of where the rail runs, and the closest point to my home where I can get on the rail system is just about 1/2 a mile from my work. So it would be useless and a waste to try and use the rail system.

But government is not shirking it's duty - it's ponying up the BIG BUCKS for the rail system. No one in my department and very few people in my company will use it.

It's not government's fault - it's the LIVES of people who need the flex power of an instant transportation device to live normal lives.

So, that being said - what's the next best thing, if you KNOW that the vast majority of USA workers need a car to get to and from work and their lives?

Well, if they HAVE TO HAVE A CAR ANYWAY, let's encourage the purchase of clean cars. So that's where the tax incentives for clean diesels and hybrids and the HOV "carrot" come from.

It's basic common sense - keep trying to solve the problem with new ideas until you find one that WORKS.

gagrice

Whatever marginal environmental benefits are realized by encouraging hybrid sales on the promise of HOV access, at this point the policy may be doing more harm than good. By slowing carpoolers and long-haul bus trips at rush hour, hybrids may well push frustrated commuters back into their own cars, increasing net emissions. By slowing traffic, hybrids threaten to kill the HOV system.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/10/AR2006021001824.- html

badtranny

Yep, you are right. Anyone who gets into the HOV lane and dogs it should be squished against a Jersey barrier. No matter what they are driving. But, that could be said about people who get into the left lane of a major hiqhway and forget why they call it RUSH HOUR!!! Many are selfish ahxxxx who are too busy talking about nothing to other nobodies, on their miserable cell phones.. These turds barely go 65, pass no one, and allow no one to pass them on the right.. They are selfish scum who turn multilane highways into monolane clusterFUsion. Talk about road rage,,, eeeesshh!! :-((

Why give incentives?? Cause you need to bait Americans to do anything good for the most part.. Even if it is good for them, they don't usually do it. The more people who switch to something good, by use of an incentive, helps others who are on the fence to participate as well..

I, for one, will enjoy not paying state sales tax, and getting a discount on my income tax, parking for free in big cities, and driving in the HOV lane.. :-))

Never wory if I am dogging it in the HOV lane.. None of my vehciles, including my hog, have anything other than two speeds, FLATOUT and stop! I don't like to stop, & slow isn't an option, so stay out of the HOV lane. By the way, a 2006 Civic hybrid moves out of its own way while going on the highway. I had one up to 70 Saturday without even trying, plenty of room under the peddle for more mashing it..

midnightcowboy

I have to keep my 4 cylinder under 5,000 RPM during break-in which means I can only go a max of 95 mph on the HOV lane. Is that too slow? However, the car is fully occupied and It is hard to wipe that satisfied grin off my face.

Those poor souls who have bene sold a bill of good on hybrids. They save you money at the gas pump, never mind they are more expnsive that conventional cars for the first five years but by the way you can get a tax incentive, you drive "green" but then somethuing must be amiss the government is giving you tax incentives and letting you drive in the HOV lane? WHY? One has to wonder.

Anyway, if you have a slow, poor handling hybrid you will never know the joy of a sports car, but such is life. Some consequences are unavoidable, but some are a person's choice. You deserve what you choose!

Cruis'n HOV at 3,685 RPM (70 mph) top down 4 Cylinder,

MidCow

gagrice

Not everyone is happy with the plan. Bob Poole of the Reason Foundation says it's a ``terrible idea,'' and believes that overloading carpool lanes with hybrids will, in time, ``reduce their time-saving benefits over regular lanes to little or nothing.''
Some motorists also complain that hybrid drivers are so anxious to get the best mileage possible that they go slower than the often-speeding flow of traffic in the diamond lane.
But critics can't slow the hybrid rush, which took off Jan. 1 when buyers became eligible for a tax credit for saving energy of as much as $3,400 for 2006 models. The amount of credit for each hybrid is based on how many more miles it gets to the gallon than a similar gas-operated car or SUV. This can be as much as $2,400

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/13859624.htm

tagman

Anyway, if you have a slow, poor handling hybrid you will never know the joy of a sports car, but such is life. Some consequences are unavoidable, but some are a person's choice. You deserve what you choose!

MidCow,
You know that the '06 Honda Civic Hybrid is a good handler. You've read the reviews, or perhaps you've tried it. You should know. And to think that you said the hybrid owner will never know the joy of a sports car is humorous. The majority of folks in this country have more than one vehicle.

Out here in California, and other places I'm sure, many folks park their hybrid right next to their Porsche, Lexus, Mercedes, Jag, or BMW. Why? Each vehicle has a definate and unique purpose. Heck, usually there's an SUV or pickup parked there, too.

The hybrid gets 'em to work with superior fuel-efficiency in the HOV lane, and the Porsche gets 'em the adrenaline rush when needed, the SUV gets 'em to and from the "sports" events, school and shopping, and the Mercedes or Jag puts the kids (or that extra "dinner couple") comfortably in the back seat. Each one has a purpose. And sometimes it's fun to "mix 'em up a little". It's all quite simple.

Makes sense to me.



TagMan

cntbelvethscrp

NO EXCEPTIONS!!
No matter what kind of car you drive, you must have 3 people in the car.
If you have a hybrid ...Great! Pick up carpoolers and take the HOV. Enjoy your tax rebate and helping save the ozone layer/problems with pollution.
This is the HOV lanes - HIGH OCCUPANCY VEHICLE lanes.
3 is the minimum. If you have a SUV for 7, great take 7 people. 7 less cars on the road.
No Exceptions for limited number of hybrid owners. That just stirs up more controversy. It's either all or nothing.. Again...
NO EXCEPTIONS - NO HYBRIDS with single drivers, no cars with singler drivers.
Hybrid owners quit whining. Pick up carpoolers and save ur money in gas and taxes. Greed is for the weak.
GOT IT!..

midnightcowboy

tagman said : "You know that the '06 Honda Civic Hybrid is a good handler."

LOL, Goood One, what are you comparing to a Prius LOL ?

midnightcowboy

cntblevethscrp said: "NO EXCEPTIONS!!
No matter what kind of car you drive, you must have 3 people in the car. "

H'mm is that true on the HOV lanes that say 2+ ? If there are NO EXCEPTIONS then why don't they change the signs to 3+
Since you are brand new and don't specify what vehicle you drive? I assume you drive a bus full of people!

Cheers,

MidCow

tagman

There are so many misconceptions about the purpose of carpool lanes. The number one purpose is to reduce air pollution, not traffic congestion. The less cars on the road equals less exhaust emissions. It was with that purpose that most of the carpool regulations were put into place. The typical person often misunderstands that and assumes that it is to reduce traffic.

Since the primary purpose or carpool lanes is to reduce exhaust emissions, and not traffic, then it stands to reason that the hybrid, or any other clean-air vehicles for that matter, do indeed fulfill the purpose and spirit of the carpool lane, and that is the reason that the regulators have granted them access.

Unfortunately, some folks have their OWN conditions they want to impart on the use of carpool lanes, but they do not have anything to do with the REALITY of the situation . . . only their own frustrations about traffic. They forget that the primary objective is not totally about reducing traffic, but it is largely about reducing exhaust emissions. Those folks need to chill out and take a breath of that cleaner air.

TagMan

gagrice

There are so many misconceptions about the purpose of carpool lanes.

You have just added to them. It does not take very much research to find the real reason the Feds built HOV lanes. Reducing emissions was a distant 3rd reason for establishing HOV lanes.

What is an HOV lane?
An HOV lane, sometimes called a carpool lane, is a special lane reserved for the use of carpools, vanpools and buses. They are usually located t next to the regular, or unrestricted, lanes. These special lanes enable those who carpool or ride the bus to bypass the traffic in the adjacent, unrestricted ("general purpose") lanes.
How do they work?
HOV lanes are intended to save time for car-poolers and bus riders by enabling them to bypass the areas of heaviest traffic congestion. Because most drivers, especially during rush hours, are driving alone, the HOV lane is seldom congested. Giving car-poolers a reliable and congestion-free ride during rush hour serves as a strong incentive for ridesharing HOV lanes also provide commuters a needed alternative to congestion, which is not always possible if all lanes are opened to everybody.

http://ops.fhwa.dot.gov/freewaymgmt/hov/hovqalst.htm#1

midnightcowboy

Hey Tagman:

Where does it say and where is it stated that : "The number one purpose is to reduce air pollution, not traffic congestion. " ?

Thanks,

MidCow

gagrice

You and I both know that is a false notion spread by hybrid in the HOV lane crowd in several state legislatures. I think it has had a negative affect adding more cars to the road than before. Three people in a car pool all buy a Prius and cause three times the congestion. HOV lanes need to be used for what the taxpayers have built them for.

Hopefully the nightmare for the REAL conservationist minded folks, will soon be repealed. It was probably the direct result of Toyota and Honda lobbyist efforts to sell their cars. As they are the only automakers that will benefit.

tagman

MidCow,

Gosh . . . do some research before you ask me the question. A google search will bring up tons of data. Here is just one of MANY examples of information that shows the federal government's motivation behind HOV lanes is to reduce air pollution. There are MANY additional federal documents and MANY state documents that you can easily find that also show the same thing. I won't argue the point any further because it's like trying to convince someone that the sky is blue when they want to think it's green.

http://www.fta.dot.gov/grant_programs/specific_grant_programs/flexible_funds_hig- hway_transit_flexible_funding/4329_9253_ENG_HTML.htm

If you want to see more, then take the time to search it out. It's all there, as plain as day.

TagMan