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Hybrids and HOV Lanes
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Does anyone know where to affix the decals?
Also, has anyone using an HOV exemption had any negative reactions from "normal" carpoolers? I'm not sure what to expect.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/30/opinion/30tierney.html?th=&adxnnl=1&emc=th&adxnnlx=11253- 99997-9qwMYnHk51ZGc3K61tOeEg
You may have to register to read it, at no cost.
Not at all. The "purpose" is two-fold.
1) Reduce the total number of cars on the road and thus shorted commutes.
2) Reduce pollution output.
#1 wasn't working and those lanes were being wasted.
#2 is served quite well by hybrids. They probably put out the same "per person" pollution as a normal car with two or three passengers.
I think that this was the sole consideration for HOV lanes in the original intent. As many people have noted, it would actually be less pollution to let large SUVs into those lanes, since the Prius will shut it's motor down while stopped. So if #2 is the purpose, Prius should not be in the HOV lane; it is using more gas overall.
Makes sense to me. You want to get the trucks and SUVs down the road as fast as possible, creating less pollution. The Prius can sit all day on the freeway without spewing any pollution. Big PU trucks, SUVs & semis pollute the most in idle mode. I don't believe much logic went into the decision to put hybrids and CNG cars in the HOV lanes. It is already a big problem in Virginia. They are complaining of all the solo hybrids clogging the HOV lanes.
Consider what’s happened in Virginia. That state didn’t wait for federal authority to allow SOV hybrids into the HOV lanes – and its HOV lanes are now almost as congested as the regular lanes, with hybrid drivers accounting for 18 percent of the users. Car dealers used the HOV lane as a sales incentive – and it worked spectacularly.
The Virginia experiment is due to expire in June 2006, but some critics are calling for an earlier demise due to the HOV congestion problem.
http://www.thenewstribune.com/opinion/story/5084908p-4632621c.html
Traffic in Virginia’s I-95 High Occupancy Vehicle (HOV) lanes car-pool lanes more than tripled between spring 2004 and October 2004, leaving those lanes nearly as congested as the ones they are supposed to relieve, according to a Virginia Department of Transportation (DOT) task force study. A major contributor to HOV congestion appears to be hybrids.
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2005/01/virginia_recomm.html
Consider what’s happened in Virginia. That state didn’t wait for federal authority to allow SOV hybrids into the HOV lanes – and its HOV lanes are now almost as congested as the regular lanes, with hybrid drivers accounting for 18 percent of the users. Car dealers used the HOV lane as a sales incentive – and it worked spectacularly.
The Virginia experiment is due to expire in June 2006, but some critics are calling for an earlier demise due to the HOV congestion problem.
http://www.thenewstribune.com/opinion/story/5084908p-4632621c.html
Traffic in Virginia’s I-95 High Occupancy Vehicle (HOV) lanes car-pool lanes more than tripled between spring 2004 and October 2004, leaving those lanes nearly as congested as the ones they are supposed to relieve, according to a Virginia Department of Transportation (DOT) task force study. A major contributor to HOV congestion appears to be hybrids
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2005/01/virginia_recomm.html
1. More "CLEAN" cars on the road. They are Number Two in the USA in Hybrid registrations behind Cali. That means LESS POLLUTION in the air.
2. Reduced fuel consumption. More hybrids replacing more "gas only" cars by default means that less fuel is being used by the drivers in that state. For that not to be true would mean that virtually EVERY Hybrid driver in the state would have started to drive more miles just because they now owned a hybrid - an impossible scenario.
Which is more wasteful:
A. An HOV lane unused, or used only by a few.
B. An HOV lane clogged with clean cars which are providing the above listed benefits.
The whole point of the "Hybrids are allowed to drive in the HOV lane" program is to PROMOTE THE PURCHASE OF CLEAN HYBRIDS. In that, Virginia has had a SMOKING success.
How many of you who don't support hybrids in HOV lanes actually have hybrids (that would qualify for HOV stickers)? Are there some sour grapes? I can see that there is some conflicting logic, but it does seem to have increased demand for hybrids which is a good long-term trend. I think in most cases they are only temporary laws, anyway.
I would imagine that Virginia will not renew the law. I don't think that is fair either. If you bought a hybrid for the express reason that you wanted to fly solo in the HOV lanes, you would feel cheated if it was no longer allowed. It is obvious that it is a factor for some buying the hybrids. Maybe CA will be able to control the excess with the limit set at 75,000 hybrids and CNG cars.
Car pool'n and driving easy crusin'n at 54 mpg per person mileage.,
MidCow
The normal traffic lanes were moving much faster ( 15-20 mph) and on this particular HOV, once you enter there are only a few exit points and no room to pass ( illegal anyway).
"The HOV lane, just because it is LEFT of the FAST LANE, is not the FAST FAST lane"
Sometimes people think that since the left lane is the "fast lane", then the HOV lane, being left of the fast lane, must be the SUPER FAST lane !!
That's just bogus !! When I get into the HOV lane, I drive my normal speed for the conditions, whether that be 5 MPH below the limit, or 8 MPH above the limit. But not 15-20 MPH above the limit, EVER. I don't have "spare $150" laying around to pay for a stupid speeding ticket, and none of those people who might get behind me "urging me" to go faster are going to pay my ticket, nor are they going to take the points off my license, nor are they going to go sit through a Defensive Driving class for me.
So they can either go around or slow down. But the HOV lane is NOT the "SUPER FAST LANE" and no one is going to make me drive like it is.
So there......
In Houston you would get run over.
The purpose of the HOV lane is to avoid the conjestion of the normal lanes and to save time in traveling. Normally the left most lane is a faster lane, unless there is a wreck, in that case the HOV should always be faster. Other times it is ususally as fas or faster than most of the normal lanes.
Zacharaya,
A light tap on the rear bumper,;you've got to be kidding. A little panic or slmming on brakes by the front car causes a mis-mash of steel bodies and cars. That is an extreme on tailgating and doesn't work either. Maybe a bright light flash or a slight honk, but usually that doesn't work. The attitude of the slow drivers, see post #172, is that they have the right to go slow.
Motor On,
MidCow
I guess if some whacko is in a big hurry and runs the Prius off the road, ain't nothing you can do.
Gotta disagree with you my friend.....:D
Nowhere in any law in any state has the HOV lane been declared "the leftmost and thus fastest lane."
The purpose of the HOV lane is to allow cars with have multiple occupants to avoid the congestion of the lanes to the right of the HOV lane. Noplace will you see any description of an HOV lane to be "the leftmost and thus fastest travel lane."
That just aint the case. The "leftmost non HOV lane" is declared as the "fast lane" and the HOV lane is not the FAST fast lane under any circumstances.
Larsb:
Don't worry.. I am sure they won't run you off the road. I was kidding about tapping the bumper!!! You are definitely right in what you said. You are entitled to keep the speed legal in the HOV lane.
On the rare occasion my wife forces me to drive to LA, I usually avoid the HOV lane. It has very limited ingress & egress. Invariably some yokel is driving 70 MPH slowing dozens of cars in that lane. The other 3-6 lanes are all moving past the HOV at 75-85 MPH. Buying a hybrid to take advantage of the HOV in Southern CA would be a waste of money.
That would be fine if that is the posted speed limit. In most of the Western US the speed limit is posted 65 to 75 MPH, with a 10 MPH tolerance by most troopers.
That is true no matter what you are driving. I would think for those that are promoting the hybrid technology, it would be even more imperative to not slow the flow of traffic. That stamps a black mark on all hybrids. Labelling them as slow and unable to keep up with the rest of the vehicles on the road.
As for gas guzzlers flying by. I don't think the guy driving his new Nissan Armada getting 9 MPG really cares how much gas he is using.
Well to the hybrid brothers i say welcome to the club every one who does not get to use a hov lane has 2 cents about those who do and why they shouldn`t.
winter is coming and i am thinking of a civic hybrid soon ......
It is the Prius that represents Hybrid cars to most people. If they are perceived as not being able to keep up with traffic it will have an overall negative impact on the technology. As far as the hybrid SUVs. They are not given access to the HOV lanes in CA. I am not sure about the other states that allow hybrids in the HOV lanes.
As to the Prius, it gets a lot of press, but not for long. The new Civic should be quite nice and we'll look at that one too. I really couldn't care what people think of the Prius. If they think it's slow then there will be more cars available to people who know what they're capable of. It really goes down the road quite nicely at 80 and still manages low 40's. As I stated before, I am doing my share and keeping it at the limit. Cheers to all!!
That being said, people who want to drive exactly the speed limit or under should stay in the right most lanes and should not use the HOV lanes.
There are certain muti-lane roads in Houston, where it is posted for slower drivers to stay to the right. If they don't stay to the right and impede the flow of the traffic in the left lane, thay are ticketed, even doing the speed limit.
I have nothing against hybrids, diesels, people going the speed limit or under, and people trying to get hyper-mileage. But why go slow in a lane, such as the left normal lane or and HOV lane, when all it does is upset the people behind you. And some of those people cannot or do not control their road rage. I just hope larsb and others do not upset some of those type A speeders and end up dead right.
The posted speed on a lot of the 6-10 lane freeways in Houston, I-59 ( also called Eastex (north east part) and Southwest ( south west part) is mostly 55, some palces 60, someplaces 70. During normal weekly traffic commute the average speed is 75-80. Do the math that is 20 to 25 mph over. If a person goes 55 mph in the left lane, the legal speed limit, they are tailgated, honked at, flipped off, brighted and in extreme cases actually run off the road, follow-up home and beat-up or shot. It is not quite as blatant on the HOV lanes. Sometimes it is not worth it to be right! When I see someone driving aggessive ( I mean another 20-25 miles over the traffic flow speed, we are talking triple digits!), I pull over and get out of their way.
So that gets me to the topic of this thread. My question, If a person wants to drive slow and get good mileage, then why would they want to drive in the HOV lane anyway, one person Hybrid or not? It seems to me like an oxymoron a HOV hybrid.
YMMV,
Cruis'n with the flow lots of left lanes and HOV carpool,
MidCow
If we really want to cut-down on fuel consumption, exhaust, traffic congestions, etc, it makes more sense to have 4 people riding in a regular gas Honda civic in HOV that gets 34+ mpg than four people driving individual hybrid Honda's getting 45mpg each.
My company IS going to look into the FlexCar solution, which provides low-cost cars to carpoolers for them to use during the day to run errands and things like that.
If there's a problem with the term "HOV" lanes, let's change it to LCV lanes - Low Consumption Vehicle.
The concept is to reduce congestion by encouraging people to carpool. This has nothing to do with pollution, and having an "LCV" lane would do nothing to reduce congestion or encourage people to carpool.
And many people still question the "benefit of switching from most non-hybrids to a hybrid."
Having hybrid vehicles on HOV lanes with one person in it is a misguided idea. The type of vehicle you and I drive is our given choice and shouldn’t allow anyone to have special privileges. What’s going to happen next a congested freeway full of hybrid vehicles? It is a just a “hip” idea. That's it. It undermines the objective of spending millions or billions of dollars just to be "hip".
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less vehicles on the road could help all vehicles on that road.
Thanks,
MidCow
Not all hybrid owners are hypermiler fanatics. I'm very happy to be averaging 52 MPG by driving "normally", like I used to with my previous non-hybrid. The incremental MPG from driving very slow and holding up traffic is not worth it to me, and I do believe it is discourteous to others ESPECIALLY in HOV lanes.
Deluxe247 you said:
"The incremental MPG from driving very slow and holding up traffic is not worth it to me, and I do believe it is discourteous to others ESPECIALLY in HOV lanes. "
I agree with you, I try to get good/excellent mileage but I also try not to hold up people in the HOV lane. I think it was Larsb that said he would drive at whatever speed he wanted in the HOV lane, that because it was the left most lane didn't mean it was the fastest. However, I don't think Larsb ever responded.
Thanks,
MidCow
I completely agree I think you hit on the key words "follow the flow" . If the flow is too fast for me ( i.e. over the speed limit beyond by comfort level) I can always move farther right to slower lanes
Cruis'n in 6th making and breaking EPA estimates :shades: ,
MidCow
Absolutely. For folks who have taking advantage of it, the value is unlimited. Better choice equals better quality of life. Try it.
The idea of having HOV lane is to encourage everyone to share a ride. As our population continues to increase year-to-year, so are the number of vehicles on the freeway.
Expanding the freeway has it own limitations and the cost is astronomical.
Allowing a hybrid vehicle in the HOV lane is not the answer to our congested freeway. Sorry. And if your MPG hybrid vehicle is lower that what you expected because of the speed or flow of the traffic, hey you can’t control what you can’t.
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