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Remember its the epa doing the estimates and not honda;
having said that the new epa numbers for the civic are:
25 city, 36 highway.
Went from 30 to 25 making it a 5 mpg difference. Looked up several of my previous cars/trucks/suvs I had in the past few years and the differences only range from 1 - 2 mpg less.
City mpg:
2007 Civic EX AT sedan from 30 - 25 (averaging 22-24 lately)
2006 Odyssey from 19 to 17 (we get 15 - 16 mpg on average)
2005 F150 w/ 5.4 4x4 from 14 to 13 (I got 16 mpg on average)
2000 Maxima auto from 20 to 18 (got 19 - 20 mpg on average)
1999 Tahoe 4x4 from 12 to 11 (about 10 mpg on average)
How so? I didn't get screwed. There are plenty of 'larger' cars that would average 25, but the 25 mph that the epa states for the civic is not the 'average' overall, its the 'average' you can expect in the city. I 'averaged' 28 in my civic in the city. And 38 on the highway.
No, i didn't get screwed. There are so many variables as far as mileage goes its impossible to listen to any poor mileage story without being completly sure that nothing adverse was left out!
To outline my reasoning:
Current estimate is 30 now down to 25. A net loss of 5. My other cars net loss was within a few mpg.
In fact, do look-ups on various cars and you'll realize that the Civic's adjusted mpg is rather bad.
Not only that, I'm still averaging in the low 20's. I'm not going to go into detail as I've posted my mileages on the Civic mileage board (with alot of detail) and as a Civic owner I did get screwed. You and a few others in the minority seem to be getting good mileage, but most here on Edmunds are not.
Why did you buy your Civic? Not for the luxury. It was for economy. My #1 reason for buying a Civic was for fuel economy, I'm guessing this is near the top of the list of priorities for many Civic owners when purchased. I know I wouldn't be driving a Civic knowing it got the mileage of larger cars.
In the long run, does it really matter? Over 50k miles, will the additional $ on gas really be that large? If so, then you might need to get a manual bare bones car. Really, time to let this dead horse go guys. You're making yourselves miserable over this, and how often can you go on complaining and complaining about the same thing...sheesh!
Just my $.02 here. If you're that unhappy, sell the darn thing and move up in size to that "larger car" you keep talking about!!!
The Sandman
Not sure if you have a family, but even with a good income, every penny counts with 2 little ones. If I can save $50/month on fuel. You bet I'll use that towards my kids college funds or savings.
If you don't like this topic just move on. Just don't read them. As I do with your postings of what wheels will look good on the Civic. Don't care about what wheels you think look good on the Civic. Have absolutely zero interest in it so I filter through those. You can care less about my mileage complaints. I think the NIMBY virus is making its round through these parts.
Totally uncalled for. Wheels on a civic that are different than the norm = interesting.
Hearing you gripe about your mileage about a car that is suppossed to get great mileage= old, repetative and deserves a nice 'get over it'.
I have checked on other cars to see how much they have dropped. The corollas did a similar thing as did a lot of other compacts. Just becasue the civic dropped 1 or 2 mpg more really doesn't merit all this 'my kids can't go to college becasue my civic is a guzzler' junk. Puh-lease. What is one mpg? Nothing.
There are lot of car out there aside from the civic that do decently as far as mileage goes. The new civic (and the new si) have attracted a large number of first time honda buyers and people who bought the car for the wrong reasons. You could have gotten a corolla with similar mileage, why go for the civic? Obviously there are more things to find attractive in a vehicle than fuel ecomomy and 'luxury' as you so pointed that the civic is not.
Whatev man.
Sheesh...what I'd give for the old days on Edmunds when people were a bit nicer and these trolls weren't lurking about with their negativity!
The Sandman
To all: we need to put an end to the personal comments. We're all entitled to our opinions and we don't need to jump on others when they see things differently than we do. If you can offer helpful responses to the problem, that would be great, but if you can't, the best thing to do is scroll on by.
Let's get back to the cars themselves. Thanks.
Now Gas mileage is a matter that upsets me because I got the same MPG in my old car but had more HP. It was rate at 19 29 and I got 25 average. Now I have a car rated at 30 40 and I average 25, which is below the 30 on the sticker. But if we look at the new EPA estimates of 25 36, 25 is decent.
Ok so our gripe is that we feel Honda took advantage of the way the EPA has tested its cars since the 70's (i think) to make them a profit during a time of increased gas prices. The fuel curve seems to be adjusted to maximize MPG by the ancient methods of the EPA. If Honda would rework the fuel curve so the car preformed better and got the same MPG, or got more MPG. Then I feel I would be satisfied. Come on we all know the drive by wire thing is a bit crappy. If I step on the gas all the way, the car accelerates slow. If I go half way and feather the gas it accelerates faster.
just a thought.
I agree about moving the new dealership might not be as helpful since you didn't buy the car from them.
Ok so our gripe is that we feel Honda took advantage of the way the EPA has tested its cars since the 70's (i think) to make them a profit during a time of increased gas prices. The fuel curve seems to be adjusted to maximize MPG by the ancient methods of the EPA
This is hilarious. If it was adjusted, the epa did it not honda. How many times will people have to hear this before they accept it? Why do you think the numbers have changed? And even so the civic still gets very high numbers for the class. Ridiculous.
If anything, I think Honda has done a great job of squeezing out very acceptable mileage in a model that has been a best seller since it's inception. And what a sweet engine the 1.8 is...smooth revving and more than adequate torque up the power band.
This is a car that does about everything right. And just look at the resale. The Civic has become an American icon while doing it's job with a bit of class to. What more could anyone ask for?
The Sandman
The only thing that they could have done is tweak the engine to get better numbers and that is a perfectly permissable practice! Hello, they want it to be efficient!
Oh and good post sand!
The same is true with an engine. This engine is a 1.8 liter which is the displacement. Engine displacement is defined as the total volume of air/fuel mixture an engine can draw in during one complete engine cycle. Now currently Honda tuned the cars so that they produced 140 HP (most likely brake horse power which means no load on the suspension). tuning these engines so that they produced this output meant the tuned fuel curve and air mixture to a certain setting in the ECU (Engine Control Unit). Thus producing a range of miles per gallon.
Currently the Civic at 55 MPH with no A/C and windows up will get 40 MPG. That is happens because the ECU is programed that at 2000 RPM's it will mix X amount of air with X amount of gas.
Car manufacters know what exactly what their engines are capable of in terms of MPG, Horse Power, Torque, etc. they do extensive testing to make sure the car they are making meets certain specifications that are market standards.
So what I am saying is that Honda knew how the EPA does its test's and compared the specifacations of the tests to Hondas tests and then set the fuel curve to maximize the MPG at the speed of 55 MPH (which is what the EPA used as highway speed for its tests).
I dont know for fact people but come on Hondas were flying off lots becasue they were non-hybrids that got 40 MPG. Dealers jacked the prices up at least 3 grand and Honda saw its sales rise. Honda is a business, business are in business to make money. The Mazda 3 was a better buy for the money now becasue they get same MPG and it has more HP.
JUST MY OPINION.
Joshua Meineke
The fact that the civic still gets great gasm mileage despite the new test numbers is a testament to the fine tuning of this engine.
Dealers jacked the prices up at least 3 grand and Honda saw its sales rise
this is hilarious. At least 3k? I certainly never paid a cent over msrp on my civic and i got mine 2 months after they came out.
The Mazda 3 was a better buy for the money now becasue they get same MPG and it has more HP.
JUST MY OPINION.
Very true. And now for something that is NOT a matter of opinion. Even the 2.0 in the mazda 3 does not get mileage that can be called 'the same' as the civics.'
Here are the numbers for ya:
Mazda 3 2.0
old: 26/34
new: 23/31
honda civc:
old:30/40
new:25/36
the civic experiences bigger drops, but its by about 1 or 2 miles per gallon than the mazda. And 31 mpg on the highway versus 36 is a significant difference.
But now with 27k on the Mazda, the car feels old...numerous rattles & creaks which has taken away from the ownership experience. But we will keep it until we get nearer to 70k miles if it stays somewhat reliable. We are just to fiscally responsible to dump a car for that reason. We only get rid of our cars when they become unreliable, we can't let a car spend more time in the shop than in our garage.
The Sandman
Sandman that is sad to hear about how the mazda3 feels old now. I know that feeling and it is not pleasing when a car that once provided not makes you frustrated. I too liked the power band on the 2.3 and felt it got great gas mileage for the fun drive it provides.
Ok Eldanio, just because you didn't, does not mean that dealers did not do this. I bought mine in July and all the dealerships I went to in Southern California were doing this.
Even the 2.0 in the mazda 3 does not get mileage that can be called 'the same' as the civics.'
Well yeah that is not true. What I get from driving my car is an average of 25-27MPG. What I would get from Mazada3 is in that same range so yeah Mazda3 gets what I call the same as the Civics. As you were saying they are ranges. unfortunately Honda favors the low end of the range.
how do they favor it?
:confuse:
as always representing the real world 28/38! :P
TOKYO — Japanese automaker Honda Motor continues to be plagued by quality problems. Its latest recall involves 390,000 vehicles in Japan, including the Accord, Civic, Fit and Odyssey, to correct potentially faulty fuel pumps.
The company earlier recalled more than 200,000 vehicles in overseas markets, including the U.S. and China, to correct similar problems.
Honda said the defective fuel pumps could cause the engine to stop and fail to restart.
That’s funny I could’ve swore I told them I thought it was the fuel pump because it kept shooting me the “check gas cap” warning when it wouldn’t start. Needless to say I’ve been dealing with the garbage ever since .Ahh, redemption is sweet
For example, is it possible to fit an adult bicycle in the trunk if you remove the front wheel? How about things like stepladders or rolled up rugs? With the rear seat folded, is there much length available?
Things I'm wondering about as I debate whether to go with Accord or downsize to Civic.
For example, is it possible to fit an adult bicycle in the trunk if you remove the front wheel? How about things like stepladders or rolled up rugs? With the rear seat folded, is there much length available?
Things I'm wondering about as I debate whether to go with Accord or downsize to Civic.
A hitch receiver and bike rack could be a better option for you. The dealers charge about 200 to put them in.
Marc
The Sandman :confuse:
I think we will get a freshening (look at an 03 coupe/sedan and then look at an 04 coupe/sedan) but i doubt it will be that dramatic.
I have an a very early 06 lx sedan auto. I've had, and continue to have, the vibration/ resonance problem around 1500 rpm that many others have had. I've had the car in to the dealer on numerous occasions, yet the problem persists. They think it is the fuel shield, but nothing they've tried helps. Anyway, I was wondering others are continuing to have this problem? Also, do any of you 07 owners have this problem? Has anyone had any luck getting it fixed?
Thanks
My dad's 2007 EX Sedan (bought in late 2006) has been perfect in every way since purchase. He's at about 10,000 miles now.
Quick history: For the last twenty years or so I've had a fairly stable commute history that was at a rate of usually less than 15,000 miles per year. As such, my taste for nice cars was able to be sated with the likes of some fairly nice lease cars, much to my delight. Nearly two years ago I took a contract that was with a company about 45 miles away from our home, and since the lease on my 530i was nearly up, I simply let that car go back to BMW and started driving our spare car, a 1998 Dodge Grand Caravan with the 3.8 liter engine (which only had 80,000 miles on the clock at the time). Tough transition.
I figured at the time that once that "three to six month" contract was over I'd simply lease a new car and be on my way. Well, best laid plans of mice and men and all of that, here I am 22 months later (and 60,000 more miles on our old DGC), not only still contracting to the same company, but facing an even longer commute when they move later this summer some 20 miles further up the road. Said another way, with my usual 10,000 miles per year (around here anyway) of driving to out of state soccer events and other non-work related mileage, that I'll be racking up miles in excess of 40,000 per year Hmmm...
I ran a spreadsheet that takes into account commute miles, other miles, gas prices and fuel economy, and came up with some startling numbers. Between Mrs. Shipo (whose company just moved much further away from our home as well) and I, I figured that we were going to be driving some 80,000 to 90,000 combined miles per year, and at $4.00 for gas, we're talking over $18,000 of gas per year! Ouch. Casting about for options, I pretty much figured that by selling one of our DGCs (hers is much nicer and only has 90,000 miles on it, so that'll be the one to go) and buying two Honda Civics, we can pay for the new cars in gas savings alone! Nice.
I went and visited my friendly neighborhood Honda dealer this afternoon and drove a Civic EX 5-Speed (Atomic Blue Metallic). To be honest, I was prepared to like the car, however, I wasn't prepared to like it as much as I did.
When I came back to the dealership all grinning and giggly, the salesman was sure he had a sale. Then I told him that I was actually looking to buy two, one EX Automatic with Nav, and one EX 5-Speed with no Nav, and he started grinning as widely as me. Of course no good deed goes unpunished; Mr. Murphy stepped in right about then. Mrs. Shipo called my cell phone and told me that her boss had just had a conversation with her and leaked that the president of the division was going to call her (my wife that is) tomorrow and offer her a juicy promotion along with a three year stint in Hong Kong for our whole family. Hmmm...
We'll know officially tomorrow if this is going to really happen or if it was just some wishful thinking by my wife's boss, but if it does, I guess I won't be needing those Civics. :-(
Best Regards,
Shipo