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Comments
Uh, don't know about that. I'm using Firefox and all the posts appear to be about 6pt to my tired eyes. I was hoping it would be fixed over the weekend. Me thinks, more tweaking is in order.....
I am sorry to report that, almost undoubtedly, by "that point" you will begin to notice creaks and aches in various joints and muscles that will help you begin to understand and (dare I say?) even appreciate the Buick market niche.... ;-)
Ouch, Dilbertzzz :-)
Steve, Host
Just goes to show, you can learn something new everyday...
View > Text Size is one way to change the font size if you're using Internet Explorer.
Next week, we'll talk about the scroll wheel <g>.
Steve, Host
You've probably been wanting to tell me about the scroll wheel for some time now.....
8^)
1.) "a Chrylser salesperson will be falling all over you"
2.) "I'd get the extended warranty on any D-C van"
3.) "Get one for $3000 under invoice"
What are priceless with the Ody are 1.) Superior handling and driving feel (Ody is the BMW of minivans; Sienna is the Lexus of minivans; T & C has no such description) 2.) refined, melodic sounding, powerful engine 3.) peace of mind with a highly regarded reliable vehicle 4) and much more.
If your primary criteria is cost, then ofcourse T & C wins. The same can be stated for the Yugo as well when it exists. But in general, you get what you pay for. Many of us have learnt from our past experiences.
If that's all you found...count yourself fortunate. I purchase my van in Texas, drove it to Louisiana and promptly removed the front plate bracket....only to find a hole drilled slap through the front bumper! (where that rectangular indention & hole is located on the bracket). So my shiny new $30,000+ van has a carved out hole in the front bumper...only for the dealer to say...."Sorry, no recourse for that. It's designed for a screw, so we put in a screw!"
To answer your question...it requires a big, fat sheet metal screw....no soft cushiony pad.
1.) "a Chrysler salesperson will be falling all over you"
2.) "I'd get the extended warranty on any D-C van"
3.) "Get one for $3000 under invoice"
1 & 3) Well, seeing that Daimlerchrysler minivans out sale both Toyota and Honda put together, I can see why they give big discounts on there minivans. They have enough minivans to go around and to meet the demand. (Unlike Toyota and Honda).
2) Really. I think you should get that extended warranty on the Sienna and Ody. as well. Their not doing so hot in the reliability dept. from what I've read in Townhall. Oh, I forgot. Since you get such high resale in the first five years on the Ody. and Sienna you need to trade it in on a current model minivan and get your moneys worth since you don't tend to keep it for ten years or more anyway.
"What are priceless with the Ody are 1.) Superior handling and driving feel (Ody is the BMW of minivans; Sienna is the Lexus of minivans; T & C has no such description) 2.) refined, melodic sounding, powerful engine 3.) peace of mind with a highly regarded reliable vehicle 4) and much more."
1) These are priceless: Those darn automatic doors that just don't seem to close. Or how about that cheap radio and speakers in a $25,000 to $30,000 minivan. Or those PAX tires that I hear will cost you a few hundred dollars to replace if you have the touring. Wind and road noise for your listening pleasure as background noise while listening to the radio. And, how about that reliable transmission that they have a band-aid fix for.
2) Same can be said for the Daimlerchrysler minivans, but I would like to add: More option packages to chose from for the right price. Great sounding radio/speakers with sub woofer (on higher end models). Power sliding doors that can be operated without having to turn off the power to the sliders to open/close with very little resistance when using doors manually. Rear power vent windows. Family friendly dashboard lay out that can be used without having to take your eyes off the road. Two rows of seats that fold into the floor. Most cargo space in any minivan on the market. No transmission recalls or TBS on current model minivans. Very quit, smooth and stable ride on all surfaces. Complete over head info. center.
3) You could have fooled me.
And if you primary criteria is to trade every three to five years, then of course the Ody. and Sienna are for you. Many are just learning that the past doesn't always repeat it's self.
I do not have the problems with my Ody that the folks or you reported in this town hall. These are probably the minority compared to the majority (97+%) who are enjoying their vehicle ownership. I have been there before with two other domestic brands and I could not be happier now. The various agency reports support my present minivan experience/ownership.
And besides, I can afford a more expensive Ody or Sienna. So I don't have to rationalize a cheaper(market value), lower performance domestic brand.
And we do have a comparison topic already:
Honda Odyssey vs Dodge/Chrysler minivans
Steve, Host
Again the percentage of Honda or Toyota owners is very small with the problems you are stating. Just ask isellhondas for confirmation.
I have many relatives and friends who have gone over 100K in their Ody with very little maintenance - not even a trany problem!
It takes a small number of folks to blow things up out of proportion - that is why Honda and Toyota are quick to help the few in those situations and implement recalls for future subsequent ones like any quality corporation would do.
I have high confidence that my 2004 Ody would be troublefree for a long time compared to the cheaper domestics. I have NO plans to buy extended warranty on this car. If it were a domestic, I would like I did for my two previous domestic ones. Besides that great handling, brisk acceleration performance, and sweet melodic, addictive engine sound is priceless. I have driven over 30 DGC and T & C rentals in the past 18 months and I am always happy to get back behind the wheel of my Ody.
I would have purchased a 2005 Ody EX if this nice, used T&C LX had not been available before Honda dealers began giving nice discounts on the 2005 Odysseys.
IF my T&C does not continue to be reliable, I will probably buy a NEW Odyssey to replace it.
You are beginning to see the light...
You will be a converted (or born-again) Ody owner soon! If you are so inclined like I am, it is a joy to drive in a spirited fashion compared to the rest.
I could have bought a much cheaper domestic like many did and I did in the past, and live with the higher expected aggravation of repairs. I have had no problems with my Ody in the almost past year I had it. I never had to take it back to the dealer. This absence of aggravation and the Ody's driving enjoyment is priceless. Met/Exceeded my expectations. I just did my second oil change this past weekend in my garage for under $5 in oil and filter costs!
I really like the 2005 styling of the Ody.If the 2004 had such good looks(minus the seat discomfort issue and transmission problem issues)we would have bought one instead of the Mazda MPV.
Comfort and ride is equal to that of the Chryslers vans...powertrain better performance.
From what I've read in the various forums though, Hondas reliability not as good as the perception.
I had driven a 2001 Ody EX and a 2002 GC Sport many times and found each had advantages. The Ody has the "Magic Seat" and excellent seating flexibility of the 2nd row. The GC is quieter and smoother riding and gas mileage was better in the GC than the Ody.
The models I now compare are the 2005 Ody EX and the 2005 GC SXT. Honda finally added separate temperature for driver and front passenger which DC has had for many years. DC finally added a split, fold-into-the floor 3rd row seat.
Do NOT confuse a lower price with cheap anymore than I would confuse a higher price with being ripped off.
Honda HAS corrected the transmission problems that affected a samll percentage of their cars!
The "whistling noise" that also affected a few cars is easy to correct and fix too.
As to the tranny issues of past years, only time will tell if the running changes have fully eliminated the problem. At least Honda has established a precedant of extending the warranty on them.
You can also get an ESC for extra peace of mind, but of course the extra cost has to be factored into your decision.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Last time I heard, Audi seems to have this little problem with unintended acceleration too......
<said tongue in cheek!!!>
I for one, would not be the slightest bit afraid to buy a "sludge era" Toyota but I would want to see the service records.
Bought a brand new '91 DGC that my wife drove
slower than my grandma. After 3 transmissions,
(the first at 42,000 miles)2 computers, and 2 antilock brake systems, enough was enough.
And this was just the big stuff.
At the time the Dodge dealer mechanic
told me that some people were on their 5th transmission on the '91's.
Made the switch to Odyssey in '01 and
have never looked back.
NO transmission problems after 4 years.
Same here. This issue is NOT an issue anymore.
Anyway, it's really anyone's guess at this point how reliability for the 2005 models will be. Based on history, Honda is going to do more reliable than the Chrysler. Although arguably Chrysler has been doing better and Honda has been doing worse in recent years, I don't think Chrysler has caught up to a worse Honda yet.
Anyway, it's really anyone's guess at this point how reliable the 2005 models will be. Based on history, Honda is going to be more reliable than the Chrysler. Although arguably Chrysler has been doing better and Honda has been doing worse in recent years, I don't think Chrysler has caught up to a worse Honda yet.
I was hoping to use this quote today and that's a nice lead in to it, Heywood.
"Product quality has improved to the point where J.D. Powers commented in 1998, "There are no bad cars out there."
Business Week
Steve, Host
Seems that the fancier-and more European-the car, the less reliable it is
Steve, Host
1. Kia Rio sedan
2. Mitsubishi Lancer
3. Nissan Sentra
4. Ford Ranger truck
5. Mazda B Series truck
6. Ford Explorer Sport-Trac
7. Lincoln Navigator
8. Dodge Neon
9. Lincoln LS (V-6)
10. Chrysler Sebring sedan
Numbers one through six made the list for safety concerns. The Navigator's showing was due to poor reliability ratings. And the Neon, LS, and Sebring were (respectively) the vehicles with the worst depreciation.
Also, I swaped out stock speakers for Infinity 63.5i's. I had done the same on my E320 and it made a great diff. The Ody sounded awful in my opinion so stock speakers got changed pronto. Again great diff. For a stock stereo it sounds pretty amazing. Anyone else change speakers?
I actully like driving the Ody. Sometimes I actually forget that I'm not in my car. Then when I do drive my car I feel very low.
And was the '04 Odyssey in the Top Ten?
Steve, Host
I am always glad to get back to driving it after driving 30 DGC and T & C rentals. In fact I prefer it to driving my other car.
Maybe the French ownership influence is starting to show its ugly head like Renault, Eagle Premier, etc LOL
With a car seat attached, you won't be flipping those seats into the floor. The flat folding third row gives plenty of cargo space in the Ody.
I'll be trading my '01 Ody in soon for a new one. The Chrysler products won't even be considered. My father, a master technician in the business for over 30 years, told me I'd be crazy to buy any Chrysler product. I'll listen to him and stick with Honda.
I do, and I have a 2005 Ody (though I liked the 2005 T&C). I find the Stow n Go an odd gimmick. Most people who buy minivans have kids, I assume. And a goodly number of those kids need car seats. So why would those folks even want a van where the second-row seats fold down? The people who would like that would appear to be people with older kids (above age 12) or people with no kids who just want room to haul stuff. But I would think that audience wouldn't want a minivan. I'm guessing a lot of people who buy a T&C for the Stow n Go seats later realize that actually they don't really need them and in fact would prefer better second row seats. But that's just a guess extrapolated from logic. Don't shoot me!
I agree wholeheartedly! The infant car seat in our van is a pain in the neck to install and remove with all the tethers. So whenever I need to have the full cargo hold available, I simply completelly remove the Ody's (or previously MPV's) middle seat that houses the car seat, together with the car seat. It'a s lot easier than the T&C alternative.
This gets a little tricky as products change over time. Some companies develop a good reputation that outlasts the reasons for it. Sometimes the brand name is sold to someone else less-meticulous or more cost-conscious, sometimes the focus is lost, and frequently the product either gets left behind technologicaly or ventures too far too fast in the innovative direction. Even so, a good reputation often lingers and is even vehemently defended even though its superiority might actually have slipped markedly.
We bought a GE refrigerator because I just couldn't forget about the one my folks bought used in 1960 or so that was still running very well (albeit in the basement by then) in 1980 when my folks finally decided to let it go as they moved to Texas for retirement. However, the salesperson told us (most likely honestly) that the company did not necessarily provide the superior product anymore.
It's a little harder to overcome a bad reputation, I think. Probably because of the "once burned, twice shy" reaction. But Honda managed it (us oldsters can remember when a Honda "car" was an oxymoron) and look at its exalted status now!
I think that the "domestic" (if there really is such a distinction today) automakers are no longer as deserving of their lingering bad quality reputations. What's more, they often offer luxury-level appointments at a bargain price compared to the "foreign" makes.
It's a mixed bag. It's getting harder to find the very best out of the crowd. But then there are fewer horrible choices and the difference from bad to great seems to be narrowing. That's a marvelous atmosphere in which to be a consumer!
However, my sister-in-law has two car seats in her previous-generation Sienna. She keeps the passenger-side second-row bucket seat stored in her garage. Child #1 sits behind the driver's seat, while child #2 sits in the third row. She uses the area where the second row seat should go to keep their huge twin stroller and other baby items. Plus, she claims, she can stay dry when strapping in the little ones on a rainy day, or have a flat surface on which to change a diaper. So I suppose Stow 'n Go seats would benefit her-- or at least the rest of our extended family: Whenever we get together, she can't drive anywhere, because she 'doesn't have the seat in the car today.' It's become a family joke....