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Comments
Lucky you! We've been getting 14-15mpg in suburban driving.
" Straight highway cruising is coming in at about 23."
The mpg you get on the highway is inversely related to your speed. The mpg advertise by Honda can ONLY be achieved at speeds around 55mph! I've experimented with resetting the trip computer and driving at the same speed for 4-5 miles and got 29mpg at 55mph; 26mpg at 60 mph; 22mpg at 75mph!
L
So that was you I saw in the rearview mirror shaking your head in disgust! ;-)
Maybe the cost of putting Volvo seats into a Honda would be less than the difference in maintenance costs?
It does seem that the only solution for the (whatever) percentage of people that don't find the seats acceptable is to change them. It is a fairly simple process for an upholstery shop to modify the foam (and maybe remove the lumbar bar). That way they can be custom fit to you. A cusion might do the trick too.
The worst cse scenerio is you bite the bullet and get a different car.
Still, I can see how the design can bother some people (the lumbar area is always a bit pronounced). If Honda wanted to upgrade the design (at a cost), a fancier, more adjustable lumbar support should do the trick.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
What makes you think they aren't?
Just curious: from my perspective, it seams that the vast majority of individuals beating the seat comfort issue into the ground....don't own Odysseys.
How many ACTUAL '05 Ody owners have complained about the seats? 3? 4?
I believe Honda has sold better than 40k '05 Ody to date. Edmunds is a magnet for individuals who want to complain. If 4 individuals posting about seat complaints actually represented only 1% of all those who actually HAVE seat discomfort, that means there would be 400 people with seat discomfort. That would be only 1% of the total number of Ody owners.
Meaning that 99% are NOT experiencing seat discomfort.
Would that be good enough for you jipster?
Check out the posts in the archived Recaro seats board too.
Steve, Host
What makes me think they aren't investigating the complaints of seat discomfort?Well,I have yet to read or hear anything indicating that they were.The point being if they are not investigating then they should.
I believe I clearly implied in my post that if 92% felt seats uncomfortable...then design to satisfy 96%.Knowing of course that around 4% wouldn't be satisfied no matter what.Again..that goes back to investigating the complaints to see what % is disatisfied.If it is a high enough number...which 8% clearly would be...then they should try to redesign to satisfy more people.
And about the Edmunds comment...who would that be complaining?
I'm with you in spirit, though when it comes to the "style" of a minivan I believe there is only so much you can do. Safety, power, ride, features, reliability ... sure. Making a minivan look like a sports car on the outside? No.
Well, obviously those Odyssey owners experiencing seat discomfort. Who did you think I was referring to?
My whole point was that if only 3 or 4 people, who own Odysseys, are here on Edmunds complaining about them, then that represents an extremely small percentage of the 40k units sold. If you feel that 4% won't be satisfied no matter what, that would equate to 1600 sore backs.
Do you feel that 3-4 posters here represent more than 1600 dissatisfied owners?
And just exactly WHERE do you think you would see that Honda was investigating complaints of seat discomfort? I'm sure that ALL manufacturer's track complaints they receive from owner's on ALL their models; it's how they make improvements from year to year. But I don't see how you would ever hear about specific investigations unless the numbers were significant.
The very fact that you HAVEN'T heard anything could be construed as evidence that the actual numbers of people having problems is low.
Actually I don't remember anybody hearing anything from Honda ever about who they were or were not listening to nor about what they might be fixing/changing. They have to be the tightest-lipped automaker on the planet! They simply present their newest offering, touting the features without any acknowledgment that they got any ideas from anywhere but their own exalted design team. So, don't hold your breath waiting for any "We hear you and we're working on it" announcements from Honda. Also don't be surprised to see things quietly improved even mid-production run.
denver5357: I'm with you in spirit, though when it comes to the "style" of a minivan I believe there is only so much you can do.
One last time (with feeling!): My point is that Honda already had a reasonably attractive solution to the minivan design conundrum. Then they changed it! (And I've admitted that it was probably more an engineering decision to acquire more interior room than it was a exterior styling decision.)
heywood1: Probably better to get those Volvo seats somewhere other than your wife's Volvo. I was thinking junkyard, myself.... ;-)
No one here has even dared to suggest that anything like 20 percent of the potential Honda Odyssey customers are unhappy about seat comfort. So, most likely Honda has more than surpassed the 80/20 rule spirit. It would seem poor business to invest much in the little return they might get from changing their seats.
On the other hand, I'd be willing to bet they have considered it, weighed out the costs, and already made some decision on the point....
Remember though - the tests are done fairly gently - no jackrabbit starts and at relatively low speeds. Manufacturers also know the test well and can design auto trannies to shift just right to do well in the test. This is why automatics may struggle to do much better than EPA numbers and manuals can soar by them.
I have a '90 Integra that was rated 28 mpg on the highway just like the Odyssey (the tests are the same as they were back then). If I drive 60-65 on a day without wind and on fairly level roads I can easily get over 40 mpg. Even driving 85 (speed limit is 75 in these parts) I can't get anything under 30 mpg.
It is all available at
www.fueleconomy.gov
BTW what fuel economy numbers did CR get in the test of the Odyssey? I consider their mpg numbers to be the best out there as they are very consistent in their testing and it is done in the real world on real streets with regular cars that were bought from a dealer.
1991 & 1993 Saab 9000 Turbo - The seat while very comfortable, rocks slightly under hard acceleration which is extremely annoying. The problem only goes away when you adjust the seat cushion all the way to the bottom. But then, at that position, there is little thigh support.
1996 & 1998 Volvo 850 - The seat headrest sticks out and forces your head forward which we found very uncomfortable.
They all have their pros and cons, you'll notice if you have owned them for a few years.
Another complaint I've heard about Volvo headrests is that you can't see through them! Unless you have X-ray-specs, I don't think this can be done in any car.
If we drove 55 MPH on the highway to try to get the max MPG we would cause an accident around here in NJ. Flow of traffic is generally about 75...
Car and Driver October review did not have CD observed fuel econonmy- only mfr estimate.
being a Odyssey 05 EX-L owner I like to add the following comments:
I am not certain about the seats being uncomfortable.
but ...
I never had a car (owned or rented) that kept me guessing so much on how to sit behind the wheel. Even after now two weeks of ownership and being the sole driver, I still play with the seat adjustment. The key reason for this is the pedal position. While I was comfortable in the touring that I test drove, I am less pleased about the overall driver position in the EX-L. This is mostly because of the distance of the steering wheel does not seam to match the one from the pedals.
Any comments from other Owners test drivers? And yes, I am a very averaged sized person.
SCS_13
Overall 19
city/hwy 12/28
150 mile trip 23
These numbers are almost identical to what the Sienna achieved by the way except for a city/hwy rating of 13/27.
A telescoping steering wheel would help too. A glaring omission on the EX-L, IMO.
My wife and I sat in the EX-L and played with the NAV. We are looking for a vehicle to tour the country in. The seat comfort issue has us wondering if the Odyssey is a good choice. I would like to rent one for a week and make a long drive. I am used to the LS400 and Suburban which are both very nice on long trips. I am also your average 6'1" 200 pounder.
Not to mention having room to lug home all the souvenirs you'll pick up along the way (I wound up dragging a cedar chest home half-way through one road trip).
Steve, Host
We own the Touring and I find that the steering wheel is too far away. Power pedals don't help with this at all, I already have them as far away as possible. What would've helped is a telescoping streering wheel, but alas it's not available on the Ody.
It seems the govt response was to lower the estimated mileage.
Same thinking goes on today with pollution, they don't measure the pollution out of the tailpipe but rather read the computer module reading which is a problem in some cars, particularly foreign, when the battery is disconnected and the computer quits making measurements. Do Hondas have this problem?
Maybe that demographic flies and doesn't do road trips?
And the Odyssey is going to be much better to sleep in than a sedan if you wind up in the boonies somewhere 100 miles from the nearest motel and your tent has blown away.
Steve, Host
At that point, the only car that will reside in my garage will have a stick and rwd
But I do - sometimes bettering the highway figure.
The Saab headrests still achieve the same safety protection but are far more comfortable.
I don't believe Sienna or Odyssey offer this, or any Japanese brand for that matter (MAYBE high-end Lexus or Acura models, but I haven't been shopping $50,000+ cars lately).
Enjoy Saab seats while you can-- the company is circling the bowl.
Agreed. I am 6' 1", and when the seat is back far enough for my legs to be comfortable, my arms have to reach out for the steering wheel. The seat is fine. It is the ergonomics here that causes me a small problem. I sort of split the difference and move the seat up a little and hold the lower half of the wheel a lot on longer drives. Not all that different from our other cars, but still could have been addressed easily with a telescopic wheel.
I'm 6-4 and when I put the seat back into the position most comfortable for my legs, I'm forced to grip the wheel with my (37 inch sleeve) arms almost straight out.
Honda...are you listening? People want it all these days!
That being said, if you had a good experience with your first T&C, I could make a good argument for buying another. You should be able to beat a dealer into absolute submission on the price, and get one for at least $3,000 under invoice (very possible with the current $2,500 rebates), And unlike Honda dealers with short inventories, a Chrysler salesperson will be falling all over you. But I'd get the extended warranty on any D-C van.
Steve, Host